One for the Mechanics

Submitted: Friday, Oct 15, 2010 at 22:28
ThreadID: 81932 Views:4482 Replies:9 FollowUps:19
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Blew out the air filter at work yesterday due to 1000k of dusty dirt roads on our last trip. Noticed the overflow bottle for the radiator empty, extremely strange never uses water,(was full during our trip)First thought was head/ gasket. Refilled the bottle and also topped up radiator, top tank down about 1/3. New some thing wasn't right so today drove it from Penrith to Seven hills (about 35k) this afternoon to pick up our 2 year old from in-laws, Kept an eye on gauge all the way there, nothing unusual sat just under 1/2 way as usual and I gave it some here and there 110, quick squirt to 130, back to 110, back to 120 etc just to put it under some load and see if any thing noticeable. Got to in-laws turned motor off popped bonnet, mmmmmm overflow bottle full to the top, checked under passengers guard noticed bit damp here and there so obviously was spitting out while driving. Rang a mate (mechanic) told him reckons the radiator is probably blocked, and with the water pump sucking from bottom hose then pushing back out through the top hose back into radiator he said if blocked it has no where else to go except out the cap under pressure as it cant pass through the radiator fins quick enough and has gone into overflow bottle ?? He said if head was gone it would be running hot/or hotter then normal, would have a rough idle on start up (it doesn't) and possible oil/water mix either way, no condensation out exhaust. The last trip we did (got back last week haven't driven the vehicle till yesterday) the road had heaps of ruts and potholes you could sink the wheel in if you wern't careful. Radiator has always had genuine coolant in it BUT the radiator has never been removed, only flushed when coolant has been changed. Prior to me buying the vehicle it was a shopping trolley/school bus (previous owner). I'm thinking with all the ruts potholes etc it had dislodged crap from within the radiator causing it to obviously partly block (other wise there would be no water flow at all and it would be running hot) What's your thoughts ?? I have pulled radiator out and taking to radiator shop tomorrow to get it flushed and checked out. It is an 01 Toyota prado turbo diesel (1kz motor) with 103k on it. Heres hoping its not the head but if it is well wont be whining just have to get it fixed. I'm Replacing all hoses, thermostat, cap (keep old ones for spares) will also flush the block, heater core etc prior to radiator going back in.......I have heard of these engines blowing heads but usually with higher klms, but some of the stories are like usual, mums cousins aunts uncles prado blew a head and was never thrashed and service every 5k. Have probably read about 10 from actual owners that have had issues, ratio not to bad considering the amount of prados on the road. Regards Steve M
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Reply By: Joe n Mel - Friday, Oct 15, 2010 at 23:07

Friday, Oct 15, 2010 at 23:07
you know it may very simply have been the cap, if the rubber seal goes then it will pump it out and when it cools down you have a low top tank and empty overflow bottle................
But that aside you are doing the right thing by getting the radiator done and hoses ect, for the small cost, even if it does run into thousands it is far better than having it break down out the back of stumps .......
Check out the amount of 1HZ's that overheat and what people do, in the end they doo the radiator and all hoses ect and problem solved and no more posts from them, and a lot of them out there also..
With the "spares" i would ditch the old bits as often they are at there use by date and not worth the space, at the end of the day a new cap, thermostat and other stuff really arnt that much and if they are still original they are now getting really old...
Good luck with it
AnswerID: 433222

Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Friday, Oct 15, 2010 at 23:40

Friday, Oct 15, 2010 at 23:40
Hi Joe/Mel, yes my mate said that as well But I thought it would be strange just to go like that and if it was stuffed I presume it would not draw any coolant back in when it cools down but it did. Yes all the hoses are original never been replaced and the hoses do seem a tad soft so not taking any chances. I will get rid of them and buy 2 sets of hoses. Heres hoping its not the head (xmas so close) but hey if its stuffed then needs to be done. Might have a better idea tomorrow after I take the radiator to get done. They will be able to tell me if it was blocked or not, if it wasnt then out comes the wallet for some expense. Regards Steve
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Follow Up By: Joe n Mel - Friday, Oct 15, 2010 at 23:57

Friday, Oct 15, 2010 at 23:57
yes it seems like that, if the little bit in the middle of the cap that opens on a vaccume and closes on pressure is stuffed then that is what it does, it pumps it into the overflow when hot and when it cools down it sucks it right back in and mostly emptys the bottle .......
Good luck with it
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Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Saturday, Oct 16, 2010 at 00:17

Saturday, Oct 16, 2010 at 00:17
I suppose one thing that sounds in my favour is its sucking water back in which means there is no pressure build up due to exhaust gas getting into combustion chamber when sitting overnight........heres hoping LOL
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Reply By: dbish - Friday, Oct 15, 2010 at 23:11

Friday, Oct 15, 2010 at 23:11
Hi Steve had the same prob with my XF panelvan coolant filling the over flow bottle. Turnd out to be faulty head gasket coolant not leaking into cylinder when pressure tested but combustion gas leaking into cooling system & slowly forcing the coolant out. When gasket removed found the steel sealing ring around combustion chamber split. Daryl
AnswerID: 433223

Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Friday, Oct 15, 2010 at 23:30

Friday, Oct 15, 2010 at 23:30
Hi Daryl, yes have heard of the exact same thing you have mentioned. Even if its the head I would be crazy not to get the radiator done anyway and replace the other bits I have mentioned. Im hoping its not ($$ will cost a bit) but if it is well just bad luck, need to get repaired. Regards Steve
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FollowupID: 704059

Reply By: GlennD - Saturday, Oct 16, 2010 at 08:47

Saturday, Oct 16, 2010 at 08:47
Hi Steve ,

It may not be as bad as you think !!

Did you fill the radiator and top/expansion tanks to the brim when it was cold , then do your drive ,expansion pumps everything out think you have a big leak when it cools ?

Glenn.
AnswerID: 433235

Reply By: Roughasguts - Saturday, Oct 16, 2010 at 09:43

Saturday, Oct 16, 2010 at 09:43
Sounds like you haave checked every thing except your water pump!
I have had two lose water from the water pump gaskett over me years of motoring.

Cheers.
AnswerID: 433240

Follow Up By: Member - mazcan - Saturday, Oct 16, 2010 at 13:47

Saturday, Oct 16, 2010 at 13:47
hi kimba
i had the same problem recently on my mazda and it was the radiator cap rubber seal had perished
i doubt that if the rad has had glycol in it during the 103th km's that there would be any corrosion in the cores as it good stuff
been using it for many years and never had any problems in tractors /trucks cars/ 4wd's etc
my thoughts also that your water pump could be leakingif its not the cap seal
there is usually a drain hole on the underside of water pumps and since you have glycol coolant in the water there will be a white stain trail there
thats if its possible to see under it
a small mirror and torch can quiet often help see it
may have to take the bash plate off
but id be checking it out before going for a head job
cheers
at least you have eliminated the rad but still might not be the problem but hope you win
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Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Sunday, Oct 17, 2010 at 11:08

Sunday, Oct 17, 2010 at 11:08
I presume if it was water pump it would be running hot as it wouldnt be getting enough flow ?? There is definately no water leaking anywhere except when it pumps the water into the overflow bottle and spits out from there. Noticed this morning it didnt even suck the water back in from the bottle which to me would mean its holding pressure in the cooling system, so I think its getting worse. Regards Steve
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Follow Up By: Member - mazcan - Sunday, Oct 17, 2010 at 13:59

Sunday, Oct 17, 2010 at 13:59
hikimba 10
found this thread it might be of help to you 81061

and chemiweld or barsleaks
are two products that have good reputations availuble from most stores repco/ supercheap etc
well the fact that its still got the prob after the rad etc was done is certainly now pointing at the h/gasket failure
cheers
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FollowupID: 704245

Reply By: Kimba10 - Saturday, Oct 16, 2010 at 16:06

Saturday, Oct 16, 2010 at 16:06
Well I reckon the heads gone, radiator was done today and I have put back in, new radiator cap (genuine) and took for a run, overflow bottle full again which indicates to me I have exhaust pressure going into the system from the head, was quoted roughly 3g's to get done, will ring around for some more quotes on monday. might even trade it in. seems to be a common issue with these motors and not going to outlay 3g + for it to happen again, stuff that, Have heard of it happening again after other people having them repaired. Steve
AnswerID: 433271

Follow Up By: Member - Nick (TAS) - Saturday, Oct 16, 2010 at 16:24

Saturday, Oct 16, 2010 at 16:24
This engine is known to crack heads more so than others, especially if its ever o/heated.
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Follow Up By: Roughasguts - Saturday, Oct 16, 2010 at 17:28

Saturday, Oct 16, 2010 at 17:28
Ouch! my wife does that to me cars a few times.

Have a look at some head gaskett treatments Etc for 10 bucks they can give you a few thousand k's to get something sorted for the long run and well the treatment may just last a lot longer.

I was surprised how well the stuff works I have seen it used a few times and with good results.

Cheers.
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FollowupID: 704127

Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Saturday, Oct 16, 2010 at 17:33

Saturday, Oct 16, 2010 at 17:33
Hi there Roughasguts, you talking about chemiworld (I think thats the name of it) ??? Regards Steve M
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Follow Up By: Roughasguts - Saturday, Oct 16, 2010 at 17:39

Saturday, Oct 16, 2010 at 17:39
Yes that kind off stuff!... If no water is getting in the sump! which I guess it's not otherwise you would have said so, I would give the stuff a go nothing to lose.

Like I said I have seen some good results and others have reported years of no problems.

If you use the stuff can you post up the results good or bad.

Cheers.
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FollowupID: 704130

Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Saturday, Oct 16, 2010 at 18:47

Saturday, Oct 16, 2010 at 18:47
Cheers mate will do. Regards Steve M
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Follow Up By: Roughasguts - Saturday, Oct 16, 2010 at 19:10

Saturday, Oct 16, 2010 at 19:10
Steve, you might wan't to post on the forums or google about the sealants and which one to use might be best.

I used one with sodium silicate, basically glass it gets sucked in to the crack then the exhaust gas melts it in place after a few miles, not suposed to block the radiator.

Where as Chemi weld does work but also might block up your new radiator.

Cheers.
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FollowupID: 704142

Follow Up By: Member - Nick (TAS) - Saturday, Oct 16, 2010 at 21:59

Saturday, Oct 16, 2010 at 21:59
Seal Up is one of the best products you can get for this sort of thing.I have seal up some very bad cracked heads/head gasket leaks for over two years and they are still going strong.One V6 mazda was so bad it wouldnt idle and was blowing clouds of steam out the exhaust, one bottle of this stuff and a 20 minute drive and all was sweet.Idled per normal and dosnt use any water.
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Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Sunday, Oct 17, 2010 at 00:13

Sunday, Oct 17, 2010 at 00:13
Hi Nick, what store would I get this from ?? Supercheap, repco, some one like that ?? Regards Steve
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FollowupID: 704172

Reply By: cycadcenter - Sunday, Oct 17, 2010 at 02:45

Sunday, Oct 17, 2010 at 02:45
Just wondering..........

I was always taught never to blow out an air filter with a compressor due to the possibility of damaging the the elements.

When I was on the farm we used to have a filter service come around and wash the filters, used to be able to get 3-4 washes out of each filter.

Bruce
AnswerID: 433307

Follow Up By: Member - mazcan - Sunday, Oct 17, 2010 at 14:13

Sunday, Oct 17, 2010 at 14:13
hi cycadcenter
a bit of topic but

just for the record we cleaned our air fliters on a regular basis with compressed air
had to do them sometimes every 20 hrs as we were in some very dry powery soil types and never ever had any problems
but we used a nozzle with a larger hole than the normal airgun and yes you can blow a
hole in a filter if care isn't taken
and the we also had a 12volt globe on a lead that we put inside the filter to check if there were any holes before re-installing it
we did'nt have the convenience of a filter serviceman where we were
cheers
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FollowupID: 704247

Follow Up By: Roughasguts - Monday, Oct 18, 2010 at 14:41

Monday, Oct 18, 2010 at 14:41
If I had to clean me filters every day or so, I would cut some sponge foam the size of me air filter soak it in oil (sqeeze off) and lay that on top of the paper element.

This type of thing gets done as standard on most dusty condition machines either that or re route your air cleaner box so it's no where near the dust to start with.

Cheers
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FollowupID: 704374

Follow Up By: Member - mazcan - Tuesday, Oct 19, 2010 at 18:32

Tuesday, Oct 19, 2010 at 18:32
hi roughasguts
the oiled foam would last a relatively short time in this grey powdery dust before causing a blockage as it sucked along off the big dual tyres all round the cab and engine
had to stop several times just to see where one was going
tractor and machine looked like a dust storm going around the paddock simular to bulldust or a dry bag of cement
tryed extended air cleaner pipes etc
but because of dust type no gain
on a dry year you got nothing from it but on a wet year the best crop you could ever wish for
just the nature of the beast so to speak
borree /morrel and blackbut /limestone country
found that the tractors with the oilbath type aircleaner handled it the best
cheers
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FollowupID: 704499

Reply By: Madfisher - Sunday, Oct 17, 2010 at 20:30

Sunday, Oct 17, 2010 at 20:30
Gee thats bad luck Steve, hope the magic cure works for you. Hard to find a nice clean unit 2nd hand like yours. Keep us informed.
Cheers Pete
AnswerID: 433393

Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Monday, Oct 18, 2010 at 15:32

Monday, Oct 18, 2010 at 15:32
Hi Pete yeah shes blown, was going to get rid of it but sat down and worked out the $$$ was cheaper to repair mine as I have just fitted new OME, snorkel bullbar etc and to replace this again will cost me the same if not more on another vehicle and whos to say (unless buying new) that I dont come accross it again with another model/make of vehicle. Will put in probably next week and get it done, can still drive it around town short runs to and from work so wont be an issue, just cant run it up and down the freeway at 110 as thats when she's obviously working harder and must open the hair line crack up and pressurise the system. Just bleep ed it happened with such low klms for a diesel (104k). Spoke to a bloke today from a machine shop said he is starting to see a few come through the work shop, he said he has done 11 of them in the last 2 years. Regards steve M
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Reply By: trainslux - Monday, Oct 18, 2010 at 16:29

Monday, Oct 18, 2010 at 16:29
So it dosent overheat, but does make pressure, which is vented into the overflow, but does not draw it back into the system when cold.

Ive come across several things like this before.
As already mentioned, check your rad cap/ replace.

Also is there any steel pipes with O rings on them into the rear of your water pump, or other cooling system setup.
Ive come across O rings that seal under pressure, but leak under vac, and dont allow the rad cap's to work correctly.


Just one more thing to consider.

Trains
AnswerID: 433473

Reply By: Member - Mark R (WA) - Sunday, Oct 24, 2010 at 01:41

Sunday, Oct 24, 2010 at 01:41
G'Day Kimba Im having simular dramas with my 79 series 1HZ motor and a mate suggested after a radiator cleanout see that the fan clutch is working alright and not slipping at high revs I checked the fan and yep problem solved just a thought.... hope ya get it sortted nothing worse aye
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