Site Search
Print Page Setup Profile Login
You have 4 items in your shopping cart
Section Image

Inverters, Sine Wave?

Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 03, 2004 at 14:12

Member - Jimbo (VIC)

I was up the bush a couple of weeks ago and took a number of digital shots and then hooked up the flip top to view and edit them, via a $70 Dick Smith 150 watt inverter and it worked a treat.

I've read in advertising material about the need for a "pure sine wave" inverter to run electronic equipment. What is the merit, if any, to this?

Has anyone damaged equipment using an "impure" inverter?
Advertisement
ThreadID: 15259 Replies: 6
Views: 1322 FollowUps: 14
This Thread has been Archived
Thread Summary
Thread Watch Back To Forum Alert Moderator FAQ
AnswerID: 71070   Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 03, 2004 at 14:39

Baz (NSW) replied:

Hey Jimbo, pure sine wave is for delicate electrical equipment (eg) medical equip, scientific equip, modified is OK for most other items.

Baz.
Reply 1 of 6
FollowupID: 331289   Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 03, 2004 at 14:48

Member - Jimbo (VIC) posted:

Thanks Baz'

I assume from that a fliptop is not considered delicate?
FollowUp 1 of 8
FollowupID: 331294   Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 03, 2004 at 14:50

Vince NSW posted:

Can't be Jimbo, Mine has survived me using it
Vince

VKS-737 Mobile 1776
FollowUp 2 of 8
FollowupID: 331295   Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 03, 2004 at 14:53

Baz (NSW) posted:

Yeah i'd say so, we have two inverters 1 pure for Nessie's nebulizer and 1 for charging laptop and camera's.
FollowUp 3 of 8
FollowupID: 331300   Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 03, 2004 at 15:04

Member - Jeff M (WA) posted:

That dick smith inverter is not a "modified sinewave" it's a square wave, I have the same one. Yeah it'll work, however it will eventually damage the power supply if it's a switch mode (which a notebook supply is). I do use my inverter to charge my video camera (which I shouldn't) and it works fine, but one day it will pop it. I just put it on when I really need it.
For $79 you could have bought a laptop 12v power supply from Jaycar that will be much more efficnat and won't damage anything.

www.jaycar.com.au

They run from 15v to 24v. They have power adaptors to suit almost all laptops complete with them. You can then hardaire the supply into your 12v system and just have the plug there ready to hook the notebook up when you need it.

Click Image to Enlarge
#1 - I'm not telling :-)
#2 Yellowdine National Park
#3 Powerline Trek - Saywers Valley
#4 Near Hyden WA
#5 Pinjar Pines
FollowUp 4 of 8
FollowupID: 331316   Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 03, 2004 at 17:32

Bonz (Vic) posted:

Jimbo, The "delicate" piece of equipment is the charger not the laptop/notebook computer. Most of these little things will handle square wave inverters no problems as they have internal circuitry that copes with a range of different input waveforms and produce the DC at the other end.

Click Image to Enlarge
.
Ever wonder what the speed of lightning would be if it didn't zigzag?
.
Lifetime Member: My Profile  My Blog  Send Message
FollowUp 5 of 8
FollowupID: 331318   Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 03, 2004 at 17:35

Member - Jeff M (WA) posted:

Bonz, what is this circutry that copes with different input waveforms?? My geek of a brother told me it's a standard switch mode power supply that will die with constant square wave "abuse".

Click Image to Enlarge
#1 - I'm not telling :-)
#2 Yellowdine National Park
#3 Powerline Trek - Saywers Valley
#4 Near Hyden WA
#5 Pinjar Pines
FollowUp 6 of 8
FollowupID: 331325   Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 03, 2004 at 17:55

Bonz (Vic) posted:

Its one of them Jeff, but they'll cope for ages with a little square wave, and for longer with modified sine wave (which is what I would go for anyway). If you are planning on running all the time with the inverter then go for the sine wave, otherwise even with a little abuse the power supply will probably outlast the laptop. Anyways if it does cack itself theyre only $50-$80 to replace, and thats less than the difference between the sine and modified sine wave anyway.

I had a modified sine wave inverter and just got a sine wave one and theyre heaps more robust and betterer I reckon anyways. Would have had a 350w sine wave inverter if I knew how to work e-bay better.

Click Image to Enlarge
.
Ever wonder what the speed of lightning would be if it didn't zigzag?
.
Lifetime Member: My Profile  My Blog  Send Message
FollowUp 7 of 8
FollowupID: 331328   Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 03, 2004 at 18:01

Member - Jeff M (WA) posted:

You're probally right about outlasting the laptop! LOL.
Yeah, I still reckon buying the Jaycar 12v Unit is the best option for people running Ozi while traveling, it's just neater, safer, more efficiant. However I still agree that having an invertor of some description on board is handy, just make sure you can isolate it for water crossings, nothing like having 240v under the drivers seat (between your legs) while doing deep crossings hey! LOL
Oooo, I'm crossing my legs just thinking about it!

Click Image to Enlarge
#1 - I'm not telling :-)
#2 Yellowdine National Park
#3 Powerline Trek - Saywers Valley
#4 Near Hyden WA
#5 Pinjar Pines
FollowUp 8 of 8
AnswerID: 71071   Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 03, 2004 at 14:50

Member - Sand Man (SA) replied:

Hi Ya Jimbo,

I agree. I was also led to believe that "some" Laptops required a pure sign wave to operate, but this was from a manufacturer/distributor of the more expensive type of inverter.

I also have a "cheapie" 300 watt modified sign wave inverter which powers my IBM Thinkpad without any problems whatsoever. Cost me about $130 from JCAR whom also sell the more expensive pure sign wave unit.

The salesperson said "what do you want the expensive one for?"
He said (nice bloke) try the cheaper one and if it doesn't work, we'll refund your money.

Sometimes you do get a helpful dude behind the counter.

Click Image to Enlarge
HooRoo !


I'm diagonally parked in a parallel Universe!
Reply 2 of 6
FollowupID: 331297   Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 03, 2004 at 14:57

Utemad posted:

I have the Jaycar 200w inverter. Runs my HP laptop fine but not my Dad's Dell. The Dell won't even charge the battery from the inverter just trips the inverter out. I have read from other threads that Dells need a pure sine wave or some sort of genuine adaptor or something.

Utemad
FollowUp 1 of 3
FollowupID: 331301   Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 03, 2004 at 15:08

Member - Wim (Bris) posted:

Utemad
Tried my Dell on 150w no joy, same problem as you. Now have 300w unit and o/k. Not sine wave either. Old 150w will charge laptop but not run.

Regards

Click Image to Enlarge
Old Man Grevillea suspension upgrade CSR 08
June 2010 - Back to the Northern Simpson
VKS 737 Mobile 0091
Selcall 0091

Lifetime Member: My Profile  Send Message
FollowUp 2 of 3
FollowupID: 331320   Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 03, 2004 at 17:45

Bonz (Vic) posted:

I was going to say if it trips out the inverter the problem is watt and how much, try something like 300w or larger. Dick Smith has a 300w pure sine wave for about $295, dual outlets for 240v on the front and a whole lot more size and heatsinks and robustness built in, also its 1000w surge, so it'll overcome the "starting" current of some devices. When you price inverters look for the surge rating as well, as some devices can pull up to three times their running current on starting.

Click Image to Enlarge
.
Ever wonder what the speed of lightning would be if it didn't zigzag?
.
Lifetime Member: My Profile  My Blog  Send Message
FollowUp 3 of 3
AnswerID: 71077   Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 03, 2004 at 15:22

Member - Tim D (VIC) replied:

I have the same problem gone through 3 invertors over the last 12 months trying to run my toshiba laptop but since I spent $79 and got the laptop 15-22volt one from jaycar no more problem
Reply 3 of 6
FollowupID: 331308   Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 03, 2004 at 16:31

Member - Jimbo (VIC) posted:

Tim,

When you say you've gone through 3 invereters do you mean they died or just didn't work in the first place. Is mine likely to die on me if I use the fliptop off it?
FollowUp 1 of 1
AnswerID: 71079   Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 03, 2004 at 15:49

Willem replied:

I was advised to buy a Pure Sinewave inverter for the laptop which I did. The 150watt inverter at a cost of $280 cooked a condensor when I married the laptop to it when running Oziexplorer. My mate fixed the inverter and since then I have bought a Kerio 12v dc laptop power source and it works very well. The inverter still sits there for running a variety of appliances when needed.
Karoo Jackal
Click Image to Enlarge
Willem

There is more than one way to get a rabbit

Reply 4 of 6
FollowupID: 331306   Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 03, 2004 at 16:22

Member - Ray posted:

Inverters? Laptops? Digital mapping? Willem wash your mouth out.
FollowUp 1 of 2
FollowupID: 331399   Submitted: Wednesday, Aug 04, 2004 at 01:54

ExplorOz Team - Michelle posted:

...and I have the proof here that he does use it. Our Willem has recorded actual OziExplorer plot files to accompany the new Flinders trek notes that he's survyed for us recently. You'll see them published soon too which means you can even download his plot files and drive them yourself.
My 1930s Dodge Limo (well
Click Image to Enlarge
Michelle Martin
ExplorOz Advertising Director
Lifetime Member: My Profile  Send Message
FollowUp 2 of 2
Activities Index
Sydney Wildlife World Pass Sydney Wildlife World Pass
Sydney - NSW
Where the wildlife gets up close to you!
Circus Skills - Eight Week Course - Sydney Circus Skills - Eight Week Course - Sydney
Sydney - NSW
Here's your chance to learn some new party tricks!
Surfrafting Morning Tour Surfrafting Morning Tour
Coffs / Mid North - NSW
This unique Australian adventure activity has you surfing the waves in 12' rafts with plenty of 'thr
Laser Skirmish For 2 Laser Skirmish For 2
Brisbane - QLD
Laser Skirmish - all the fun of paintball without the mess and pain!
Book Now - Things To Do
AnswerID: 71107   Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 03, 2004 at 17:50

Big Kidz (Andrew & Jen) replied:

Hi Jimbo

I had normal Dick Smith Inverter that was not pure sine wave but a square like me. It worked quite well for a while but my laptop power supply used to get hotter than when at home and it also made a louder buzzing sound when plugged in. After a while it seemed to make the power supply overload and we had to turn it off and wait till things cooled down. I got nervous after hearing about them burning out the notebook power supply and changed to a Jaycar Pure Sine wave inverter and it does not run cooler and quieter.

Andrew
Yes - Luke's got a bigger one than me
Click Image to Enlarge
2001 Landcruiser 100S Turbo Diesel
"We do not stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing"
Reply 5 of 6
AnswerID: 71148   Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 03, 2004 at 21:30

brett replied:

Switch mode power supply's are most likely to be the least affected by a modified sine wave. The people that were told they need a pure sinewave did they tell you why? The first thing a switch mode supply does to the incoming 240V is fully rectify it and produce DC, then it switches this DC at a rate of approx 30KHz and converts it back to AC before going through a very small transformer to reduce the voltage to what ever is required, then rectified and regulated to produce a very stable regulated DC supply. By the time the incoming 240 AC is rectified then chopped up at 30Khz it really doesn't matter what the incoming AC looked like, whether it was a pure sinewave or a stepped one doesn't really matter. You will get far better results with a switch mode than a conventional iron cored transformer when run from a modified sinewave. The iron cored transformer will become very innefficient with a modified sine wave, it will get hotter and produce less current. The switch mode supply is the one that doesn't weigh much, feels like there's not much in side it.
Reply 6 of 6

 Page Sponsors

WAECO Pacific Pty Ltd WAECO Pacific Pty Ltd Premium Listing
Portable refrigeration provider WAECO, is celebrating 10 years in Australia in 2009. Established in high-technology headquarters in Germany 35 years ago, WAECO has developed a wide range of mobile technology for people on the move.
1 JOHN DUNCAN COURT   VARSITY LAKES, QLD, 4227
Phone: 1800 21 21 21
More info | Website | Driving Directions
ExplorOz ExplorOz
Become a Member of ExplorOz; buy or sell in Trader; buy Maps, Books, DVDs, camping accessories, and ExplorOz wheel covers, shirts, hats and stubby holders from the ExplorOz Shop; and book Activities &Tours or buy someone a gift certificate from our Activities section. Become an ExplorOz Member for just $60 in your first year, and $40 when you renew.
PO BOX 967  HILLARYS, WA, 6923
Phone: (08) 9403 3737
More info | Website