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Fuel costs and 4x4 purchase costs

Submitted: Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 18:32

V8Diesel

Righto, I now no longer have a shiny 100 series in the driveway so I need to replace it a.s.a.p. I need a reliable, presentable 4x4 for work so it's time to pull finger and get one.

Never worried about fuel costs before, but if it does go to the $2.00 plus mark within the next few months as some folks are predicting here, maybe now is a good time for a rethink.

My conundrum is, what full size, late model, secondhand, 4x4 do ya reckon I should buy for around the $30 - $35K mark? I do lots of city driving, lots of long distance, lots of gravel and a fair bit of reasonably serious off-road track work.

Question 1. Oiler v Petrol / LPG???

Question 2. Toyota Landcruiser 100 series v Nissan GU Patrol??? (These are the only vehicles I'll consider)

Having owned both I have no real allegience to either marque and I think they're both excellent machines. The GU certainly seems a lot stronger, but also less 'refined' in its road manners. I could jump either way without loosing any sleep.

Option 1. LC 4.5 100 series on LPG (what I just had)

Option 2. Patrol 4.8 GU with 5 speed auto (185Kw and auto - veeerrryy niiicee me thinks but undeniably thirsty)

Option 3. LC 4.2 diesel NA 100 series GXL (slow, but reliable and reasonably cheap to run)

Option 4. Patrol TD4.2 - virtually impossible to find a good one in that price range.

Option 5. LC TD 4.2 - forget it, need another $20K

or dare I say it................

Option 6. the Patrol GU 3.0l auto which I have been so rude about in the past?

I like a bit of power so a GU 4.8 sounds great, but when you compare fuel costs of 20l/100km's with the GU's 3.0 @ 10l/100km's (with poor reliability record admittedly) it's starting to make me think.

I have always been critical of penny pinching fuel misers, but with costs looking to increase up to 100% over a 12 month period, I could be spending $10k plus annually on juice without any dramas. That's a mighty powerful argument.

I know this is yet another Toyota vs Nissan post, but please refrain from mud slinging and just offer up any constructive opinions. I value the collective knowledge here and it may help me make a better decision.

Thanks
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AnswerID: 128139   Submitted: Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 19:03

Truckster (Vic) replied:

I reckon its getting to the point where its not worth owning one. And yes, im serious. Its beyond a bleep in joke and it will only get more expensive. $2.00 by yr end I wont doubt that,....
Unless your rich, its not worth it. If you only get away 2 times a yr, or even 4, your better off hiring one, and owning a car.

Nice to see Little Johnny Coward giving a bleep that people are quitting jobs cause they cant afford to get there (and dont say public tpt cause thats a farce at best), They cant afford $20k for a new economical car, 4wd tradein values have gone down faster than a brides nighty, they cant afford house repayments.
He is a true leader.

10/100 for the 3.0? was that when it was on the Tabletop? none in our club get close to that.
Reply 1 of 12
FollowupID: 382745   Submitted: Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 19:51

V8Diesel posted:

Yeah, Truckie I'm hearing ya and I don't like it one bit either.

What do the 3.0l's actually get in the real world then - I don't really have a clue as I've never paid much attention to it myself before now.

The one that seems to stand out as the leader for me is the GU 4.2Td. What mileage do they get city and hwy cycle?
FollowUp 1 of 14
FollowupID: 382748   Submitted: Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 20:02

Shaker posted:

You are surely drawing a long bow blaming John Howard for the cyclone that has caused the most recent fuel increases. If you want to blame anything for the main increases, it is the huge demand in China.
I disagree with GST on the fuel tax, but do you really think Labor would remove it?
FollowUp 2 of 14
FollowupID: 382767   Submitted: Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 21:22

nick riviera posted:

Yes way too expensive, at a $1.40 plus every day $2 is not that far away.
Let alone all that depreciation on a 50K plus 4wd.

We did some sums and we will save $1900 a year (doing an average 20000Km's a year) to get rid of the cruiser and go to a smaller vehicle.

We are going to just hire a 4wd for our trips on the dirt.
FollowUp 3 of 14
FollowupID: 382770   Submitted: Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 21:29

gramps posted:

Shaker,

Yes there is an increased demand for oil in China and India but don't forget the good ole USA consumes 26% of the world's oil production with less than 5% of the world's population. As well as losing over 2 million barrels per day production with the invasion of Iraq. Who knows when they'll get back into full production (and don't mention the previous oil embargo on Irag - what a joke!).

I agree with you. Labour is absolutely no chance of removing any GST charges where serious revenue is concerned.
FollowUp 4 of 14
FollowupID: 382771   Submitted: Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 21:31

gramps posted:

V8diesel,

Turn over a new leaf, get a Subaru and a Harold Scruby fan club membership. :))))))))))))
FollowUp 5 of 14
FollowupID: 382775   Submitted: Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 22:12

warthog posted:

I'll be keeping the patrol, no thanks to little johnny coward, though I'll be the bloke poking along at 85-90kph on our unrestricted open roads trying to scrape a bit further out of a tankful. All this talk about tuning the td42 for more power, what about winding it back for more economy...
FollowUp 6 of 14
FollowupID: 382791   Submitted: Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 22:47

Truckster (Vic) posted:

Shaker..
With families really struggling, and unable to even fuel cars to get to work, dont you think that the "LEADER" of the country would give a bleep ? Scrap the tax = they would already have made this year at this stage what they budgeted on if they abolished it today.

No, of course he doesnt - he doesnt even DRIVE A bleep IN CAR let alone pay rego, etc...

>> I disagree with GST on the fuel tax, but do you really think Labor would remove it?
All our political parties in this country are corrupt scum. Only interested in themselves.
I wouldnt and never have voted for any of them, and no neither will lower the tax, they will all say in my worst annoying little bleep johnny whinging voice "Oh I know people are struggling, which isnt good, but I dont give a bleep "....
FollowUp 7 of 14
FollowupID: 382812   Submitted: Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 23:57

Shaker posted:

So Truckster, you don't vote? You just sit on the fence & whinge.
FollowUp 8 of 14
FollowupID: 382814   Submitted: Sunday, Sep 04, 2005 at 00:08

Exploder posted:

“Scrap the tax” that’s all well and good, but the money to run the country has to come from somewhere, It’s cheap fuel and chit road’s, poor amenities, below average health care and policing.

Let’s not forget they are also paying off the last labour government’s debts, and despite what the states will have you believe most of the money from the GST goes right back to the states.

But of corse the oil companies aren’t forcing the price up at all are they, Mobil Exon has made a $10 Billion profit so far this year, and then they pull all this supply and availability crap I find it hard to believe that they do not know there pumping and supply capabilities for more than 24Hrs. They have concerns over supply, well if you just put the pumps and refineries on full tilt then the price would drop and stabilise instead of changing the production output every 5 min but then agene that would eat into profits wouldn’t it.

The fact the oil platforms and refinery that have nothing to do with anything outside of the U.S can affect the price of fuel in Australia is just crap.

Just a side note, this new diesel from BP is now cheaper to refine and BP Kwinana now has the most advanced diesel refining in Australia so technically diesel prices in WA should now drop considerably but will they NO WAY.

FollowUp 9 of 14
FollowupID: 382815   Submitted: Sunday, Sep 04, 2005 at 00:21

Truckster (Vic) posted:

so what do you suggest shaker?

Give the vote to someone just for the sake of voting just to give yourself a hardon cause you voted?

Not one of the parties out there deserves a vote. I'd rather not be responsible for electing either of the scum in thanks.
FollowUp 10 of 14
FollowupID: 382820   Submitted: Sunday, Sep 04, 2005 at 00:38

Exploder posted:

Voting is not about getting the best party in, it about keeping the worst one out.
FollowUp 11 of 14
FollowupID: 382884   Submitted: Sunday, Sep 04, 2005 at 15:30

warthog posted:

When was the last time a seat of any parliament was decided by ONE vote. When It is decided bt several hundered votes that is considered close. Sorry but you can use the argument that if everyone thought that way then the result may change. That doesn't change the fact that one vote carries about as much clout as farting into the wind.
FollowUp 12 of 14
FollowupID: 382954   Submitted: Monday, Sep 05, 2005 at 01:03

Cruza Ute posted:

"The fact the oil platforms and refinery that have nothing to do with anything outside of the U.S can affect the price of fuel in Australia is just crap"...

Do you have your fingers in your ears when you watch the news Exploder?

Crude oil is traded worldwide in US$!

The yanks only need to call a long weekend and our fuel prices go up as the red-necks are filling up their pick-ups for a vacation...
FollowUp 13 of 14
FollowupID: 382995   Submitted: Monday, Sep 05, 2005 at 12:26

Truckster (Vic) posted:

Exploder posted this followup

Voting is not about getting the best party in, it about keeping the worst one out.
---
while I do sort of agree with this, when NO ONE party is better than the other, all full of chitt, lies, and lookin after themselves - what do you do?
FollowUp 14 of 14
AnswerID: 128141   Submitted: Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 19:05

ACDC replied:

I'LL take option 4 thankyou!
Reply 2 of 12
AnswerID: 128142   Submitted: Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 19:21

Member - Sam (NSW) replied:

Option 4 will crop up.
I just picked one up around that price in really good condition. You will start to find more and more on the market as the fuel costs are forcing people to sell them.
Simpson Desert 2006I love a sunburnt country......
Reply 3 of 12
FollowupID: 382746   Submitted: Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 19:52

V8Diesel posted:

That's good to hear. I'll start searching a bit further afield then.
FollowUp 1 of 1
AnswerID: 128145   Submitted: Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 19:33

Member - John (Vic) replied:

The dealers would be giving away the petrol models soon.

You may be able to afford to run one if you got if for almost nothing.
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Reply 4 of 12
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AnswerID: 128147   Submitted: Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 19:41

Member - Andrew(WA) replied:

V8....

Mate, don't want to do this Patrol 3.0TD V's the rest of the world thing as has been done so many times before, and I am no expert but have owned various 4x4's for the last 12 years or so...so I will just say this:
My understanding of the problem 3.0TD GU's was pre the series III. I have a series III and drive a series IV at work over some pretty serious stuff that most 4x4's would never see and we have had little problem with either of them. The biggest drama talked about in the past was the engine going BOOM and we still hear about it but...as far I know they are all pre the series III. There maybe the 'Odd' failure since that I am not aware of but what vehicle maker doesn't have some dramas in the odd car. Even Cruisers are still known for some serious diff failures IFS problems etc.
Anyway all I would say to you is test Drive the auto TD Patrol and see what you recon. For a around town shopping trolley and family offroader, they are hard to beat in the value stakes.

If I had the extra $20 big ones though, I'd buy the TD Cruiser but only because I believe they are more comfortable and better built but not a better off roader. The power of the 3.0TD will surprise you and I believe the Dtronics really help low down torque.

Remember though, If you buy a new TD patrol you have to do the book services for warranty and they don't miss you there.
If you get a 4.5 petrol cruiser out of warranty you can service it yourself for stuff all which offsets the petrol cost.
The 4.8 patrols are more thirsty than Cruiser V8's, cost about the same brand new, so why bother with the 4.8 at all

Big decision.
Good luck

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Reply 5 of 12
FollowupID: 382750   Submitted: Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 20:07

V8Diesel posted:

I don't want to spend over $35K if I can help it and I always service my own vehicles anyway. I agree the new TD 100 auto would be my 'Lotto' choice (even with the IFS) but $50,000 secondhand is way out of the question for a motor car.

I have heard the pre series 3's were the troublesome one's too.I still don't like the thought of 3 litres pushing a 2.5T vehicle around, but maybe I have to move into the modern era as I seem to be a bit of a dinosaur. Plenty of people who seem to know what they're on about swear by them and they sure are plentiful. I do like stoneage fully, non-electronic mechanical oilers though.

When did the series III start production?
FollowUp 1 of 2
FollowupID: 382765   Submitted: Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 21:18

Member - Andrew(WA) posted:

Series III was very late 2001 or early 2002 Not sure exactly. Mine is a Build date May 2002 and they had been around for a few months by then.
Easy to distiguish from the I and II's by the revised tail lights. (clear top half, red bottom half)

And...you wouldn't know were pushing 2.5 tonne around them. They feel very light and responsive.

You'll be suprised..just test drive one.

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FollowUp 2 of 2
AnswerID: 128149   Submitted: Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 19:55

Member - Captain (WA) replied:

Hi V8Diesel,

A real conundrum for you, cause I have been there done that too. Given the price of where petrol is going, I would only go for an oiler. Having had an 80 1HZ, while it was great, it was S...L...O...W... Seriously thought about the 100 series 4.2TD, but don't like IFS and reckon the value for $$$ is not there IMHO. That left the GU 3.0TD and 4.2TD.

Given the $7K price difference (when new) and that the 3.0TD has more power and torque (especially with Dtronic) and great fuel economy (average 11.3 l/100kms around town and 10.9 l/100kms country) I decided to give it a go for the next 3 years. Reckon it would have been the best decision I made, especially if I had of got the auto. I know the early 3.0TD's have a bad reputation (and deservedly so), but the series 3 and higher are well sorted now. Very hard to beat the value for money of the GU 3.0TD IMHO.

Whatever way you go, all the vehicles you have mentioned are great and i don't think you would be disappointed in any one of them.

Cheers

Captain
My 200 GXL TTD + Camprite
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Reply 6 of 12
FollowupID: 382752   Submitted: Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 20:23

V8Diesel posted:

Hi Cap'n, how ya going. Those figures are nearly half what my 100 series 4.5 (and my GU ST4500) was getting. If I'm already averaging $100 - $150 PW on fuel and it is only going to get worse - maybe much, much worse......well it's not chicken feed in anyones language is it.
FollowUp 1 of 1
AnswerID: 128156   Submitted: Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 20:38

Jimbo replied:

"Toyota Landcruiser 100 series v Nissan GU Patrol??? (These are the only vehicles I'll consider)"

If you take your blinkers off (no offence intended), there are many other vehicles out there that will fit the bill. They may suit your budget and needs extremely well.

You may not even have to buy second hand.

Toyota and Nissan are not the only builders of fine 4wd vehicles these days.

Good Luck with whatever you choose.

Cheers,

Jim.
Reply 7 of 12
FollowupID: 382759   Submitted: Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 20:53

V8Diesel posted:

Need the space Jimbo as I carry a fair bit of kit.
FollowUp 1 of 5
FollowupID: 382769   Submitted: Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 21:27

Jimbo posted:

Fair call.

Cheers,

Jim
FollowUp 2 of 5
FollowupID: 382779   Submitted: Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 22:21

warthog posted:

If you need the space buy a twin cab 3ltr diesel hilux, who can afford to drive fast on the open road now any way. A twin cab ute with a canopy will hold way more than these so called full sized 4wd's. Our EB falcon wagon has considerably more room than our GU patrol as does the neighbors hilux when you factor in the well body.
FollowUp 3 of 5
FollowupID: 382827   Submitted: Sunday, Sep 04, 2005 at 02:04

gramps posted:


Aaaaah Warthog, somebody talking sense re worries about fuel prices, 4wding and the ability to carry enough kit. You are spot on. But it does'nt necessarily fit the macho image some want to present.
FollowUp 4 of 5
FollowupID: 382848   Submitted: Sunday, Sep 04, 2005 at 11:35

Shane (QLD) posted:

Know the vehicle that Jimbo is talking about & the last trip that I done in mine (diesel) made the 3ltr Nissan on a hill look like a dinosour. I suppose it wasn't fitted with a D-Tronic. ( no, I wasn't in the Cruiser).
FollowUp 5 of 5
AnswerID: 128159   Submitted: Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 20:58

WDR replied:

Why not look at late model jackaroo. Diesel or petrol they are good value now and have absorbed the shock of not being replaced.
Reply 8 of 12
AnswerID: 128173   Submitted: Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 23:40

Exploder replied:

I have seen some 99-2002 patrols, going for mid 20’s some of them Turbo, but they are all Tray tops, ex western power and Telstra.
Reply 9 of 12
AnswerID: 128176   Submitted: Sunday, Sep 04, 2005 at 00:08

Member - smiley and kell (VIC) replied:

g'day v8,

did you have a v8 diesel previously, and if so, how was it on fuel.

cheers
Reply 10 of 12
FollowupID: 382830   Submitted: Sunday, Sep 04, 2005 at 06:32

V8Diesel posted:

I still have my trusty HJ75 with a 6.5 V8 Diesel in it for the serious grubby stuff, it was the 'proper flash' 100 series that bit the dust.

To be honest, I don't know what the fuel consumption figures are for my 6.5. The 75 has the standard factory tank, plus a huge belly tank under the tray (along with a stainless water tank for good measure too) so it goes for a looooooonnnngggg way between drinks. I just fuel it up (preferably on the last day of a job:-)) and drive it.

It seems to be surprisingly cheap to run from my estimates though. I guess I'll I'll be driving every day from now on, so I might pay a bit more attention to it. Problem is, I just love the sound of the bent eight at full grunt so much it's rarely driven for economy. If I putted it around (which is still easily keeping up with the traffic mind you) I'd say economy would be comparable with the old 2H motor believe it or not.
FollowUp 1 of 1
AnswerID: 128188   Submitted: Sunday, Sep 04, 2005 at 07:28

at4x4 replied:

A 1hdft troopy out of the question?

they achieve good economy, but if you want real fuel savings pay the extra and get a new D4D hilux, 8.5's and 9's per 100km a couple of our customers are getting loaded with work tools etc.

Take a new lux for a drive, and you will be surprised how well they drive.

If none of those are an option, the 4.2 patrol economy isnt wortht he swap, might as well just LPG your current truck.
Reply 11 of 12
FollowupID: 382969   Submitted: Monday, Sep 05, 2005 at 09:51

V8Diesel posted:

ats, the turbo troopy is an option I hadn't even considered before and after mulling it over, I think that they might just about be the best 4x4 around at the moment. They are what a 4x4 should be in my book.

Powerful, simple, strong (they've full size gearbox and diffs haven't they?) and cheap to run. The RV has all the fruit too, which makes life a bit more comfy.

As I'll be running around in my 75 ute for the next few weeks, I decided to give it a birthday yesterday and realised how much I like the simplicity of it. I'm underneath it with the grease gun out just looking around and got to thinking a fully mechanical diesel, manual gearbox, select 4WD is just so much easier. My 100 was one helluva complicated vehicle.

Still undecided.
FollowUp 1 of 1
AnswerID: 128205   Submitted: Sunday, Sep 04, 2005 at 09:51

mfewster replied:

The real political disaster with fuel is that both the parties compete to appear to want to lower taxes while keeping the fuel tax high. I don't object to the fuel tax, this has been coming for years and the original idea of the fuel tax was to keep or fuel at international parity so that when fuel prices catapulted, our economy would have partially adjusted. I think that has worked.
The catastrophe is that we should be putting our tax surplus into new infrastucture instead of trying to buy votes by promising to deop taxes. I'll vot e for any party that keeps out taxes up and use it to set up major biodiesel industry and distribution. We need a sort of fuel equivalent of the Snowy Hydro electric scheme. We have masses of gas. Why isn't Johnny giving incentives to put gas systems in and establishing a much more extensive gas distribution system? What are we doing? We are making long term contracts to sell off our gas at prices that will look ludicrously cheap in a few years.
Reply 12 of 12
FollowupID: 382936   Submitted: Sunday, Sep 04, 2005 at 21:56

Member - Bill S (NSW) posted:

All this talk of fuel prices HA HA Wake up AUSTRALIA.

BILLS
FollowUp 1 of 1
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