getmethehelloutahere posted:

Thanks. I figured as much regarding toughness and keeping the alloy shiny, just a bit concerned about weight and fuel efficiency.

getmethehelloutahere posted:

Thanks

Member - Warfer (VIC) posted:

Hiya SDTASH

Ive recently had an ARB Deluxe Bar and Warn 9.5 winch added to my T/D Hilux,Been up steep hills,Spurs,Rivers crossings and no probs at all...

I would upgrade my suspension just for the sake of it,Although the Lowline External Canopy Roof-Rack is being installed this Sat i might hav too, but will do some trips first...Front locker would be my pick before suspension lol

Not sure if the Prado is a different kettle of fish but wouldnt think so !


Cheers

OzTroopy posted:

Took me three roo strikes at highway speeds ... before I threw ny aluminium bar away ... its all in the design young codger.

The flex in the aluminium is actually better as absorbs more shock before transfering it to the vehicle.

Steel is great but a decent aluminium bar will give surprising results.
Not an ideal platform for a winch mount though.

Member - Ed. C. (QLD) posted:

I'll go along with what OzTroopy has said..

Depending on the alloy/temper, aluminium alloy can be made very strong indeed..

I have a TJM T15 alloy bar on my Patrol, and so far, only 1 'roo strike.. this was a medium-sized 'roo, at about 80 km/hr, and the impact was right at the very end of the bar, the most likely section to bend, I would have thought....
The 'roo was "no lookee too good", so after putting it out of it's misery, I checked the vehicle/bar for damage, and guess what?
no visible damage whatsoever, and there was no impact at all felt inside the vehicle, thanks to the flex in the bar...

In the light of day, I had a closer look, and there is a very slight ripple in the flat horizontal section where the bar had flexed...
Anyone who didn't know that it had "taken a hit" would be hard pressed to see it, and it's certainly not noticeable to the casual observer...

Bottom line, don't be too dismissive of a well-designed/made alloy bar...

young_codger posted:

I've hit countless smaller roos that aren't worth mentioning, but I've got a test for all bullbars:

Get a cricket bat and wack it sideways on your bullbar as hard as you can. I'm guessing that an alloy bullbar will dent, while the steel ones won't... I don't think anyone with an alloy bullbar would be game enough to try this - if so, let us know how you go.

OzTroopy posted:

You really need to reword your comments .....

Your test is only applicable to the bars you have seen ... going by the comments you make.

Your cricket bat test on the alloy bar I had on an 80's commodore, would have killed you as the bar two ends swung forward and met after the bar was struck in the middle with the bat. I guess thats the quality of bar you are referring to. Damn thing collapsed like tinfoil after clipping a small wooden guide post.

In regards to the last 3 alloy bars I have fitted ... You would only have had a ball to pack up and take home if you tried the same test.

As stated previously .... alloy bar quality is all in the design of the bar.

A hint for you too ... Have a good look at your bar ... see where it mounts and where impact energy is transferred to around the bar ... most probably if you hit that roo you were describing in your other post with an upright instead of the bar centre ... you would have no bends at all.

If you cant work out the energy transference .... stop going on about cricket bats.

OzTroopy posted:

Whilst I am annoyed at the legalities and approved designs of frontal protection bars today ... bought about by vehicles "only" used as a school bus / shopping trolling ... I do concede there are people in the city who can only afford one vehicle and therefore that vehicle has to serve two functions.

People like you DIO ... cause more harm than good, with your lack of knowledge comments.

Now I know that the Gibb River Road is not half the trek it used to be .... but someone who has stated previously that that will be one of their areas of travel whilst on an around the block trip ... is certainly entitled to fit a front bar in my opinion.

A bar in the city makes it much safer for the vehicle owner. Less panel damage from blind pedestrians wandering across the road ... Not to mention those callous shopping trolley owners who shove the trolley in any direction away from their vehicle once the groceries have been offloaded.

If you have no requirement for a bar of some sort on your vehicle ... so be it ... Spend your time on a forum teaching people the correct way to cross a road ... would be a better use of your time.

getmethehelloutahere posted:

2 roo strikes, one causing thousands of damage. I am guessing a bull-bar may help a little next time.

Hairy (NT) posted:

Hahahaha...
DIO...your a legend!!!!
ROTFLMAO

George_M posted:

I tend to agree with DIO....

For "...safety and some limited off road work" has two components. For general safety around town the standard vehicle is your best bet by a long shot. For limited off road work you should consider just what you need. If you are not going to be driving at first or last light - when animals are most active - do you really need a bullbar? Most Prado's I see that have bullbars use them for very expensive attenna mounts. (lol)

George_M

Hairy (NT) posted:

Ive hit quite a few roos in my time and none of them were while driving "off road"

George_M posted:

...and the only roos I've hit have been at early morning or late afternoon, when I've known the risk was higher.

OzTroopy posted:

Hey George_M .....

As I posted earlier .... I dissaprove of bars in unnescessary situations too ....... If an antennae hole costs you the electricity to drill it ... why spend an extra $2k on something to drill a hole in ..........

Unfortunately by agreeing with Dio in this instance ... You are telling someone - getmethehelloutahere - who is apparently preparing to travel many thousands of klm around australia, that they are not entitled to the frontal protection of a roobar. With the intended distances involved ... the likelyhood of needing it is increased many times over, even compared to my running around in central NSW.

Morning and Dusk .... you are correct ... the most active time for roos .......
And then theres always the ones which, during the day, use the shady tree with the waterhole on the other side of the road ... not too mention emus which are even worse than roos to hit, as all their bodyweight is high up, wandering cattle, horses, the list is rather endless .... and none of them can tell the time.

Best times for travel in Australia during the hotter months .... the cool of the night .... easier on radiators / tyres / gearbox / engine .... oh wait .... the hoppies are out ...... but there are those aware of that and prepare accordingly - even if the design of new bars offers less protection than I feel adequate.

George_M posted:

G'day OzTroopy

I don't think we are in disagreement here.

Although few things in life are black-n-white, I'd say that:
. "some limited off road work" doesn't require a bull bar (with the potential suspension issues that goes with it). I'd prioritise LT tyres as more important than a bull bar off the bitumen
. on the other hand, if the plan is to "...travel many thousands of klm around Australia" then buy a bull bar by all means - I did for the reasons you've set out.

George_M

OzTroopy posted:

Not a problem George_M ...


getmethehelloutahere ..... has posted several threads on his intended travel plans and which vehicle to get .... Just a shame our good mate Dio hadn't noticed them eh .... lolol

OzTroopy posted:

Problem I have with the approved design, mass production ones Hairy ... is that they are designed to tip a flimsy human up onto the bonnet / windscreen area.

Tough, sinewy, weighty roos of a decent size are just as likely to keep coming and end up in your lap ..... having seen on one occasion that it can occur ... and the carnage inside the vehicle ...

In the past, I had my own made ... getting too hard now because of overzealous revenue officers who dont know the difference between engineered gear and the bits of RHS welded together they should be hunting for.

young_codger posted:

I'm not sure about TJM bullbars, but ARB bullbars are designed to crumble slightly on impact at high forces.
This is not to say they are inferior, as if they didn't absorb some of the shock in this way, then your chasis will, causing it to damage. I think I'd rather have a slightly pushed in bullbar than a buckled chasis!!

OzTroopy posted:

I'm sure that a purpose built one in Hairy's case would include suitable "give points" in the construction.

In my case, my past bars have relied on the "spring" in the aluminium to absorb the shock ..... As posted above - yesterday.

Just wondering young codger .... are you aware of how many experienced and even ADR approved barmakers there are in Aust ... besides the two brands you see constantly flaunted in your face at every advertising opportunity.

I havent bought an ARB bar for 20yrs .... got better things to spend money on ... you like them thats fine ... but they dont suit everybody or everybodies purposes.

Hairy (NT) posted:

Depends what you want a bull bar for....bouncing off animals, pushing and pulling things or head on accidents?

The other side of the twisted chassis argument is....if your bullbar is strong enough and mounted properly it could could reinforce your chassis and stop it from twisting??

George_M posted:

If in doubt, convince SWMBO to buy you a bull bar. (lol)

It's a "boy thing"

George_M

OzTroopy posted:

Your choice of whether to fit a bar can really only be answered by yourself.

The primary reasons for the bars I have fitted is your item 2.

A/.. protection of the cooling sytem in the event of an animal strike at highway speeds, and
B/ .. minimal vehical damage in the same circumstances

Why ???? .... so that I dont have to interrupt a journey for any more than a quick safety check at the nearest service centre. Superficial damage can wait till I get where Im going.

Point A to Point B to me, does not include sitting in a table drain waiting for a tilt tray to find me in the middle of nowhere - nor the associated expense of delays / additional accommodation fees , etc ., while vehicle repairs are carried out ... that could have been avoided by having a decent bar.

I have never presumed that a bar would offer any extra protection in a headon vehicle collision ... indeed, generally considered it might make things worse ... morale of that ... be more attentive when driving.

as for the other reasons .....

If you are staying on marked and well travelled roads on your trip ... not much of a requirement for a winch so therefore no winchmount needed ... unless you want one. My advice is borrow a tirfor or similiar.

If you dont already have drag marks and finger nail scratches down your bonnet ... I would disregard the pedestrian hype.

Lights and antennaes ... lots of cheaper mounting methods than $2k of bling advertising for someone. There is already a push happening to have antennaes .. not .. mounted on bullbars ... so thats a consideration too. Driving lights next probably .......

Recovery .... the Toyota should have a front point all ready ... If it has a decent mounted towbar ( and check that for a fact ) thats rear recovery point dealt with.

Perhaps in your case a "well mounted" nudgebar would be adequate for your purposes - some frontal protection and driving light mounting / protection. Do lose some approach clearance normally with these though.

getmethehelloutahere posted:

Thanks that helps a great deal