OT. Global warming
Submitted: Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 22:36
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Kim and Damn Dog
I’ve just come back from a BBQ at a mate’s place where just about everyone got into a discussion about Global Warming. I’ve never heard so much rot in all my life!
If you freeze your cheeks off, it’s Global Warming, if it rains its Global Warming, a bit of a hot day its Global Warming!
I mean, when is this nonsense going to stop?
An old fella like me can’t decide whether to buy a set of water wings, invest in sun cream futures, or climb the highest
rock.
Anyway the mate and I took the path of least resistance and had a quiet beer down by the creek. LOL
Regards
Kim
Reply By: Member - John (Vic) - Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 22:41
Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 22:41
"I mean, when is this nonsense going to stop?"
No time soon as its got to many potential tax dollars attached to the hype and lets face it Rudd needs to pay for the spending madness somehow.
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Follow Up By: Kim and Damn Dog - Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 22:51
Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 22:51
John
You’re not suggesting that politicians are having a lend of us are you? That can’t be right...
LOL
Regards
Kim
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Follow Up By: Member - Old Girl (QLD) - Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 23:02
Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 23:02
I think its right to have water restrictions because the
population growth cannot sustain what we have. Recycle yes because the dumps cant sustain
population growth. Use less power because the bills are too high. Don't use a mobile phone for too long because the damn thing gets too hot.
Global warming a load of dung.
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Reply By: Member - John Baas (WA) - Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 22:55
Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 22:55
Yair, no worries.
Just ignore the soon to be evaporation of the Artic ice shelves and the permanent opening of the NW Passage, the imminent melting of the Antarctic ice sheets, the withrawal of Tibetan and Andean glaciers etc etc.
She'll be right. Sweet.
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 22:58
Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 22:58
All of which have happened before and in a supposed Pre Carbon increased world!!
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Follow Up By: landseka - Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 23:01
Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 23:01
It has happened before and will happen again, get used to it.
Lets face it, this planet's
population growth just cannot be sustained. There WILL be a cull, it is Natures way!
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Follow Up By: Member - John Baas (WA) - Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 23:08
Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 23:08
But not this hyper fast!
I really can't believe that there are so many of us out there who really think we can get away with massive and exponential increases in emissions pollution over such a short timeframe without any impacts arising.
We are p'ing in the
waterhole. And big big time.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 23:15
Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 23:15
It makes me wonder when they say it has been the hottest, wettest, dryest etc since 1930 or whatever, what part of global caused it back then?
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 23:17
Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 23:17
John
Considering that vehicle emissions are said to one of the single largest 'Polluters" its good to see you will stop driving yours just to help the planet out.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 23:17
Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 23:17
insert .... warming
We badly need an edit function!
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 23:18
Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 23:18
What vehicles caused it back then, there were only about 15 cars in Australia then!
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Follow Up By: Member - John Baas (WA) - Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 23:23
Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 23:23
Hi
John (Vic).
There's nothing you nor I can do at an individual level that will make any difference whatever.
What we need really really need is an emissions trading scheme or a serious carbon tax which will operate on the macro economics of it all. I'd be more than happy to pay my share of those taxes.
Cheers.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 23:29
Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 23:29
Wake me up when China, India & the US do something, we are a fart in a thunderstorm by Global standards.
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Follow Up By: Member - John Baas (WA) - Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 23:32
Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 23:32
No point in continuing to engage. See you chaps on another post sometime.
Cheers.
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 23:34
Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 23:34
Yes good idea, lets tax ourselves out of existence so that Rudd can be seen to be reducing our already less than 1 percent contribution to world wide carbon emissions.
Meanwhile our various industries move to overseas locations like China were they are not tied into massive revenue raising schemes.
They can't prove the carbon theory beyond all doubt and Rudd won't change his stance because he won the last election on a scare campaign that the average Australian really didn't understand.
Now the question is starting to be asked, how much will this really cost the average Aussie
home, $1,100- is the current estimate (And rising) by industry, of course Rudd denies this figure.
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 23:38
Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 23:38
Thats the issue isn't it, when the Pro lobby can't support the argument then they label the antagonists as sceptics and discontinue the debate.
I remember the world was going to run out of oil back in the 70's and here we are still driving our cars and they keep on finding more.
Hype and hysteria to make money, in this instance its the Extra Tax Scheme or Scam.
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 08:36
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 08:36
Australian Carbon Tax = Export of Australian jobs to countries without one!
The financial intermediaries (banks) that deal in carbon credits will be the ones that stand to profit from this carbon tax, and the government will have another tax tool to fund itself. The environment will be way down the pecking order in terms of something that will benefit if it benefits at all.
I was lectured recently by someone who is a 'stauch' supporter of taking action on global warming, and how we had to shut down our coal industry. I asked why they had two cars....the answer because they needed two! If global warming exists they will never fix it because it will always be someone else who is causing it....
On another note.....We will overpopulate ourselves out of existence long before 'global warming' does gets us.........and planet earth will take care of itself long after we have gone!
Geez...I'm going out to enjoy myself!
The Landy
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Follow Up By: OREJAP - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 09:07
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 09:07
The
Murray River ceased to flow in 1939.....this to me, was when global warning started.....or was it black Friday 1939 when the bush fires raged in Victoria? Please everyone help me answer this question. We are on water restrictions....why are there numerous new housing estates being built? Where pray tell is the water coming from for these houses with a minimum of two bathrooms.....Here is my answer in 30 years (Thank God I'll be long gone) this country will be speaking Indonesian because their country is full, no more inhabital land they will take ours...simple because where else do they live? The chinese who are building anything & everything will ruin the economy because the prices they will sell imports for will be so cheap no one else will be able to compete & when they have the market under control our reliance for materials will depend on China. They can send our mining bust by closing factories & ceasing production for a few years so without China buying our resources we are basically broke until they graciously bail us out by buying up are stagnant resources & sell them back to us. Don't forget those favorite words we all learnt in school, "I love a sunburnt country a land of sweeping plains of rugged mountain ranges, of droughts & flooding rains. I love her far horizons, I love her jewelled seas, her beauty & her terror, the wide brown land for me. I wonder if Dorothy McKeller was thinking about the effects of global warming when she wrote that.
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Follow Up By: Member - Amy G (SA) - Monday, Nov 30, 2009 at 17:13
Monday, Nov 30, 2009 at 17:13
OREJAP, what isn't publicised is that China is also in a dire situation with regard to its water resources. In some areas they have dropped the water table by 63 metres since the 1970s due to overextraction. It will be interesting (and probably very distressing) to see how long their present economic boom will last given the further troubled times they are soon to face.
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Reply By: Member - Flynnie (NSW) - Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 23:24
Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 23:24
It used to be called summer now its called global warming. Winter cures it.
On a related issue "rising sea levels" I did a recent google search on something like "how much have the sea levels risen". I was expecting to find 100 mm or more since 1900. Got the usual "models" 1.8 mm a year. Shock horror! Yeah, but I am a sceptical type. Give me the data not the politically correct model. A little further down the page was a hit on an interesting article that used data from
Hobart and other sea levels measurements. Anyway to get to the point the actual change in sea levels was slight to non existent.
There is a wealth of information out there if people are only prepared to look. Or just go down to the beach and see how much the sea level has changed since we were kids. Got a micrometer?
The gloom and doom has been going on for about 30 years now and still there has been negligible change in the height of the oceans.
The climate may be changing because it always is. We are still getting over the medieval mini ice age. Not all the glaciers that formed then have as yet melted. When they have finally melted we may be back to "normal".
This is not a troll. I just think we have been a little bit too willing to "believe" the gloom and doom.
Flynnie
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Follow Up By: Willem - Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 23:31
Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 23:31
I am with you on this one...:-)
Cheers
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 23:32
Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 23:32
We have to have a name for everything these days.
It's like there are no naughty children any more, they all have ADHD!
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Follow Up By: Kim and Damn Dog - Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 23:35
Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 23:35
Thats makes a lot of sense to me.
Regards
Kim
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Follow Up By: Wilk0 - Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 23:54
Saturday, Nov 28, 2009 at 23:54
I agree Flynnie,
Its taking up far to much of the News(gossip)papers. But then again news doesnt sell papers any more it has to be gossip, scandal or doom & gloom
Kim mate I disagree, The path of least resistance is more then one beer : ).
Cheers Wilko
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Follow Up By: Kim and Damn Dog - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 00:44
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 00:44
Wilco
I confess. It may have been two beers.
After that we started to talk about the other 55% of the human race.
Suddenly Global Warming didn’t matter much after that!
Regards
Kim
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Follow Up By: landed eagle - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 08:11
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 08:11
Wilco, you left 'celebrity' off your list. Nothing sells like celebrity!
There's more warming gasses eminating from the BS that's coming out of the doom and gloomers mouths than anywhere else methinks.
If they think the planet's getting warmer come and live in Tassie. Been colder and wetter here than I can remember in the last 40 + years. And it's raining now....again! Summer starts on Tuesday expected temp is 14 with more rain!
I live 50 meters above sealevel looking into a valley with a beach at one end. If the global warmologists are correct,in about 5000 years I'll have a waterfront property. Better get the approval for the jetty sorted out quick smart.
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Follow Up By: Member - Duke (TAS) - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 21:22
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 21:22
My theory on rising sea levels is caused by the sudden stoppage of harvesting whales and all these marine parks they are creating.
Try half filling a bath with water then one person gets in and the water level rises. Put three or four people in and it overflows. Quite simple really.
I am applying to the Federal Gov. for a $3000000.00 grant to try and prove it beyond doudt.
PS What a load of Cods wallup this Global Warming theory has turned out to be.
Regards nDuke
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Follow Up By: Member - Timbo - Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 15:08
Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 15:08
I agree - it's good to know there are still a few 'sceptics' out there (bearing in mind that sceptic means some who asks questions - what's the other alternative: gullible?!).
I've wondered for a while how you could accurately measure sea level anyway when it's always moving up and down with waves and tides etc. And what do you measure it against when the science of plate tectonics tells us that all the continents are constantly moving X cm each year - it makes you wonder when they report a "sea level rise of 1.8mm per year" whether it's a sea level rise or a continental lowering (must be all the heavy 4WDs in the country?!).
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Reply By: Member - ross m (WA) - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 00:03
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 00:03
Global warming and global cooling are just some of the symptoms of climate change.
It's quite possible some areas will become cooler,others hotter,wetter or drier.
If the glaciers of the north america melt,they may have a cooling affect on the Atlantic conveyor which delivers warm water to Europe all the way from the gulf of mexico.
This could plunge europe into genuine ice age conditions.
It could also have a huge affect on the migratory fish routes of which the northern fishing fleets rely on
Do a search on "thermohaline circulation"
Most of the worlds productive food growing areas are in coastal areas which are at risk from salt water encroachment.
When scientists talk about sea levels rising by a centimetre, they dont mean it will be an even centimetre all over.
The momentum from ocean tides could cause it to be much higher in some
places turning fresh water rivers into salty water.
The choice is to do nothing and take the risk or at least try and see if something can be done.
Its about time people tried to educate themselves on the subject instead of treating as some kind of joke.
It could it cost us a lot more than money.
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Follow Up By: dags666 - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 06:16
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 06:16
i always thought the tides where controlled by the moon and where the planet was in respect to the sun in the solar system. maybe it gets warmer on some parts of the planet because of solar flares or maybe the earth has moved closer to the sun.just maybe the cycle of the earth has moved a fly bleep closer to the sun this time round. and for weather the earth has the same water level doesn't leak into outer space and moves around the earth its called photosynthesis. whatever when pollies get hold of it another branch of the public service will blossom and that where our taxes ,sorry carbon tax will disappear, buy i dont understand why mutinationals make billions out of resources and joe
blogs again pays Dags
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Follow Up By: Member - Timbo - Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 15:14
Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 15:14
"When scientists talk about sea levels rising by a centimetre, they dont mean it will be an even centimetre all over."
What?! Since when did water stop finding it's own level?! Water can't pile up higher in one region because liquids always find their own level - at least, that's what they taught us in school/college.
If you're talking about sea 'rising' by different amounts in different parts of the world, I can't help but wonder if continental movement might be contributing to the measurements?
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Follow Up By: Member - ross m (WA) - Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 19:14
Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 19:14
Timbo ,Im referring to tidal surges. Sometimes when the tide is moving up a river,the ocean tide has begun to recede.
This is because of the momentum the water picks up as it gets squeezed into a narrowing river/estuary.
From memory the tide in the Swan river is about an hour behind the ocean.
Wind can also blow water up river. Ive seen this happen in the Swan river on blowy days.
Water does find its own level, but only when there no forces moving it around
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Follow Up By: Member - Timbo - Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 22:06
Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 22:06
Ok, THAT makes a bit more sense.
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Reply By: Member - Donks1 (NSW) - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 00:15
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 00:15
Dinosaurs were here. Now they are gone.
For thousands of years......NOTHING
Now humans are here, and 1 day we will be gone.
Its nature. Deal with it people
Steve
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Follow Up By: mikehzz - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 08:20
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 08:20
Steve, even though I personally agree with you, I feel that I must point that there is an alternative argument from those who strictly believe in the word of God. That is, the universe was created from scratch about 7000 years ago and that we are all descendants of Adam. There is no room in their scenario for dinosaurs.
If people can't agree on a subject as blatant as that then we all have no hope of agreeing on anything and all arguments are just hot air, even hotter air lately some would have us believe.
So lets all stick our snouts back in the trough and keep feeding like there is no tomorrow....party on dudes
Mike
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Follow Up By: Member - Tour Boy ( Bundy QLD) - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 09:10
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 09:10
Oh well I guess that dinosaur fossils are all fakes then??
Cheers
Dave
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Follow Up By: mikehzz - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 09:15
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 09:15
According to them .....yes. Put there to test the faith. How can you argue with that logic? You can read about it online of course.
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Follow Up By: Member - Timbo - Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 15:25
Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 15:25
"There is no room in their scenario for dinosaurs."
Really Mike? Perhaps then you could tell me what non-dinosaur animal could be described as having a tail like a cedar tree and bones like beams of bronze or ribs like bars of iron? (referred to as Behemoth
here). Or Leviathan, the sea creature which you can read about
here. I can't imagine what non-dinosaur animal could fit that description, can you suggest one?!
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 20:26
Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 20:26
Tim,
I had a look at those links.
With all due respect that is Evangelical Bull*%it.
Next you'll be expecting us to believe the Planet is just 6000 years old. Did God extract those 65 million year old fossils from elsewhere and stick them into the Earth when He/She "created" the Planet we live on?
Jim.
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Follow Up By: Member - Timbo - Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 22:03
Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 22:03
Sorry Jim, I was just pointing out that it was incorrect for Mike to say "There is no room in their scenario for dinosaurs" when "their scenario" includes clear references to dinosaurs.
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 09:07
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 09:07
Last week,
Adelaide scored its hottest November day EVER.
Last january,
Adelaide scored its hottest night EVER.
Last year in March,
Adelaide scored its hottest heatwave EVER - 15 days
Feels like the earth's getting hotter to me! Or is it just "
Adelaide warming"
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Follow Up By: RJ5023 - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 09:58
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 09:58
Phil,
You are confused.
The correct term is "climate change". Global Cooling became Global Warming which begat Climate Change. The use of any other term just encourages the unbelievers.
At some future time we can expect to see an new term being used that will address the discrepancies caused by using the term "Climate Change".
Cheers,
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Follow Up By: disco driver - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 13:12
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 13:12
RJ5023,
Your post is already out of date!!
Our Great Blonde Leader, he who knows all, and his dead Swan, the Treasurer, have taken to calling this pseudo scientific mumbo jumbo "Dangerous Climate change"
We had all better look out........Dangerous Climate change is coming to get us all unless every body toes the line and passes this unexplained, and possibly unexplainable, ETS Bovine excreta yesterday.
Tomorrow is too late.
Disco.
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Follow Up By: RJ5023 - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 14:37
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 14:37
Bugger. I'lll update the list.
One thing though. I really do believe that it's time for things to change. But I'd much rather see all this time, effort and money spent on population control (which would benefit all of us and the planet) rather than climate control (which is not achieveable).
Population demand creates pollution
More population creates more pollution.
So why try to fix the effect and ignore the cause?
What is being attempted is just a short term bandaid if the world population continues to grow.
Cheers,
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Follow Up By: Member - Ed. C. (QLD) - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 16:07
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 16:07
RJ5023 has nailed it IMO...................
Until we do something about population growth (and yes, I'm responsible for some of it ;-)), then every thing else is pure "Pie in the Sky'...
At least China (to their credit) have taken a step in the right direction in this regard..
:)
| Confucius say.....
"He who lie underneath automobile with tool in hand,
....Not necessarily mechanic!!"Member My Profile Send Message |
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Follow Up By: RJ5023 - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 17:01
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 17:01
Thanks Ed,
What seems most incredible to me - beside the fact that our leaders and experts are barking up the wrong tree - is that "climate control" continues to be promoted as some kind of permanent
solution to the real problems that we all face.
It is not.
No matter how much money is spent in mitigation it cannot fix the problem. True, we need to stop mucking the place up so badly, but it's the sheer numbers of us that are the cause.
If "Climate management" solutions are put in place that will ease some of the problems today, those solutions willl surely need to be made ever more harsh and more costly in the future when there are even more of us?
I think population control is too hard for our leaders to attempt, and they should be censured for their lack of foresight and courage. Talk about caring for the wellbeing of future generations is just rubbish if those generations will be competing for a shrinking pool of resources in an increasingly unfriendly environment - and we do nothing about it in our lifetime.
Sod it - time for a
beer!
Cheers,
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Follow Up By: Member - Timbo - Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 15:30
Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 15:30
"At least China (to their credit) have taken a step in the right direction in this regard."
Interesting you say that as even China has now started to realise their '
solution' brings its own problems and may not have been such a good idea...
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Reply By: Alloy c/t - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 10:22
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 10:22
Put 3 fingers of your best Scotch in a 8oz glass and mark a line on outside with marking pen, fill glass to brim with with filtered
ice cubes and mark level of scotch ,Does the first level rise or decrease as the
ice melts ?? Every time I try this experiment to prove or disaprove that the melting
ice caps will raise sea levels after the 3rd attempt in the 1 session I find I could not care less.
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Follow Up By: Out of here - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 11:51
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 11:51
Its not the
ice in the glass its the other 2 cubes you add after the glass is filled you have to think about.
Thats the
ice on the land and not in the sea :-)
Maybe you had a couple before you thought about it :-0
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Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 13:37
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 13:37
Last time ,actually every time , fill your
ice tray with water , then place in freezer and freeze and what have you? Ohh no we have
ice which takes up more room /area than the water did , melt the
ice and raise the sea levels? tell,em their dreaming. LOL
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Follow Up By: DCTriton - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 15:01
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 15:01
Put a bottle of scotch in the freezer with 3 fingers, then get 8oz of water in a cube and a glass and see how long.................................................yup, failing this experiment too...
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Reply By: xcamper - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 11:14
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 11:14
Hi,
Over the years this has been talked about by "experts", it has been called many names, depending on who is in fashionable vogue at the time, at the moment it is "carbon emissions", ergo we need "carbon trading".
Next year, (if we are here.LoL), it will almost certainly be another trendy name .
The bottom line is , that you and and I , through increased taxes,( brought about by inept government), will pay for it.
There will always be those who say that inept government has allowed this "disaster" to come upon us.
I believe that the world will continue to turn, the human race will continue to advance, and what will be the next frightening event. We overcame the possible end of civilisation with the Y2K farce, which cost plenty.
pete
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Follow Up By: Member - Timbo - Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 15:34
Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 15:34
But the best thing about the y2k farce was that it had a definite end date. This impending
ice-age, er, global warming, er, climate change, er, dangerous climate change, er, carbon emissions scaremongering could potentially go on indefinitely...
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Reply By: Member - DAZA (QLD) - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 13:15
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 13:15
Hi All
Some time back, a few Eminent Scientists did studies of the
Ice Packs ect, with Core Drilling, they took Core Samples from great depths and still have these samples in a Controlled Enviroment in storage, these samples showed that this warming has occured many times over millions of years, and they also stated that Volcanos cause more Emissions in a few hours than all of the Industrial Nations do in One Year, at the end of the debate it was agreed that their evidence far out weighed any theory that Man Kind was causing Global Warming, or any problems with the Ozone Layer, they also mentioned that Forest Fires through out the world caused by Lightning Strikes ect cause more Emissions as well, some of these Tree Huggers seem to just listen to the Dooms Day People and agree because it's trendy and it suits their purpose or agendas.
Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - DAZA (QLD) - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 13:22
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 13:22
PS. On a more Serious Note, I reckon it has a lot to do with TOYOTA 4x4's causing the problem lol lol.
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Reply By: Best Off Road - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 13:17
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 13:17
Two scenarios here.
1. The eminently qualified Scientists are right and by cleaning up the planet we will save the place for future generations.
2. The Scientists are wrong, but we will still clean up the planet and make it a better place for future generations to enjoy.
It is not a difficult choice.
Jim.
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Follow Up By: Member - DAZA (QLD) - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 13:27
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 13:27
G/Day Jim
You could have a point there, but do we have to rush in head first while the Major Industrial Nations sit on their hands and do nothing or very little ?.
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 13:39
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 13:39
Daz,
We can choose to be leaders or followers.
Somebody has to hit the ball over the net before the game can begin.
Regards,
Jim.
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Follow Up By: Nigel Migraine - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 14:06
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 14:06
If you believe *anyone* in the world looks to
Australia for a lead you are suffering from a serious case of enlarged ego.
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 14:44
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 14:44
"You are suffering from a serious case of enlarged ego"
Very good Nigel.
LOL isn't that the very same problem that Rudd has?
Rudd has some self importance issues and thinks the whole world will look at him as some sort of "climate leader" in world affairs rather than the joke he is really regarded as.
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Follow Up By: Nigel Migraine - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 15:29
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 15:29
Your obvious political affiliation makes it hard to attach any significance to your posts.
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 15:41
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 15:41
I would suggest that every post in this thread has a political slant, after all its political policy that is being debated or don't you think tax has anything to do with political policy?
Cheers
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Follow Up By: Bob of KAOS - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 16:08
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 16:08
Jim
I am with you.
Forget the politics. The weight of scientific opinion is that our use of fossil fuel is causing irreversible climate change. Common sense says that if we burn all the stored fossil fuel on earth and put it back into the atmosphere in a couple of hundred years it is going to have a dramatic effect on climate.
Who does it benefit it we burn all the carbon stored as gas or oil, clear all the forests, turn the earth into a feedlot for billions of mouths that are the plague of homo sapiens?
Why not take steps to slow the process?
To those who make a living digging up or burning coal I say to you find another job, perhaps in alternative energy generation and the rest of us will help you. But please stop sounding like ignorant rednecks.
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 22:58
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 22:58
Bob,
You're right, this is above politics, some fools just can't see it. And some have such a warped political agenda that they cannot offer an objective view.
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Follow Up By: jdwynn (Adelaide) - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 23:39
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 23:39
Spot on Jim
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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Tuesday, Dec 01, 2009 at 01:12
Tuesday, Dec 01, 2009 at 01:12
what gets me is that a company copies a product the hangs the dick on the other... "designed electronic field coil
control for unique output control compared to others
on the market."
Sorry but I'm one of those original type of guys... I have a Christie Engineering Outback
Battery Charger 2.5hp 55 amps and yes they are noisy but they are made to charge
battery's not generate power. so a farmer can get a tractor started within an hour, and so on.
Not ment at anyone just had to say it.. :-)
Cheers
Richard
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Follow Up By: Member - Timbo - Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 15:44
Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 15:44
"Two scenarios here:
1. The ... Scientists are right and by cleaning up the planet we will save the place....
2. The Scientists are wrong, but we will still clean up the planet and make it a better place ....
It is not a difficult choice."
Jim, if it was just about cleaning up the planet then I'd be right there alongside you. But if it's about spending a fortune trying to control something that's out of our control (ie. climate) then it's a very different matter.
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Reply By: PhilZD30Patrol - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 14:11
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 14:11
The way I see it;
Will I be able to look my grand kids in the eyes and tell them that I did all I could to ensure that I didn't do any more damage to the planet than I could possibly avoid.
My grand kids are worth my trying hard to give them as good a future as I can.
Vote Green
Cheers
Phil
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 14:59
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 14:59
Phil I would suggest you don't have to much to fear other than leaving your grandkids with the largest levels of debt this country has ever seen.
i would be more worried about how our future generations will pay for this governments spending.
If this was a real issues about the well being of the planet and not the money then ask the simple question.
Why does Rudd provide the claimed biggest carbon polluters (coal industry) the biggest $$ subsidies or exempt the agriculture industry?
Answer is simple, he knows that to forgo a few dollars up front will give him the best chance to get his ETS through and allow him to collect more money further on down the track.
Its got nothing to do with protecting the planet and everything to do with tax.
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Follow Up By: DCTriton - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 15:07
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 15:07
Such a cynic, John ;)
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 15:15
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 15:15
Cynicism born on fact I would suggest! :-)
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Follow Up By: Bob of KAOS - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 16:15
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 16:15
John (Vic) you seem to be excessively absorbed by the politics of global warming. You sound like you are a lobbyist for the coal industry. True?
Forget the politics- how about the science?
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 16:33
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 16:33
Sorry to disappoint Bob.....No.
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 22:23
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 22:23
Well...we could all turn off our computers, and the lights. After all most of
Australia's electricity is from coal fired power stations....
Okay, so I am tongue in cheek here.....but there is little in the way of viable alternatives that maintains the lifesrtyle we are accustomed to, at a price we can afford.
I find the problem is that it is always someone else causing the problem, but when it really gets down to the nitty gritty, none of us is willing to take the drastic step of...well turning off our computers, or TV, and whatever else we happen to be running right now.
That is the pointy end of driving change...taking away the demand.
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Follow Up By: Member - Timbo - Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 15:51
Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 15:51
So true Landy - we all want our homes and offices to be a stable 20 deg. C all year 'round, but the building owner must install ENERGY EFFICIENT a/c! And don't make me walk up a flight or two of stairs - I want an electric lift or escalator... etc. Don't make me give up my car because I'm too lazy to ride a bicycle and public transport is not door to door exactly when I want it.
So many people happy to exalt themselves for trivial gains (energy efficient lighting, Earth Hour, etc. as if lighting is the most significant part of your energy usage!) as long as it doesn't inconvenience them...
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Reply By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 18:46
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 18:46
Kim,
I'm a firm believer in a few things,
It never hurts to clean up ones backyard, we get a much more pleasant place to live once the job is made part of our everyday life style.
The climate of this planet is forever changing, deal with it. Don't bother labelling or politicising it.
We have exceeded the carrying capacity of this planet for the human species, nature abhors a dominan species. Expect Mother Nature to come down on us hard and fast very soon (in a cosmic kind of time frame)
Bludgeoning people over the head with a tax or a big stick does not work. GW Bush always reckoned he waged war for peace, that's really working! Can I have sex and get virginity?
The human races arrogance know's no bounds, we are but a fly speck on the butt of the universe. Deal with that too!
Geoff
| Geoff,
Landcruiser HDJ78,
Grey hair is hereditary, you get it from children. Baldness is caused by watching the Wallabies.
Lifetime Member My Profile My Blog Send Message |
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Follow Up By: Kim and Damn Dog - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 20:44
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 20:44
‘Deal with that too’....I don’t think so.
The mate and I would much prefer to have a
beer down by to the creek and let all you smart blokes figure it out. Wake me up after all the latest hysteria is over.
The one thing that has come out of this, is an affirmation that we have a clown
shop running the country, rather than a responsible Parliament.
Regards
Kim
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Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 22:38
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 22:38
"The one thing that has come out of this, is an affirmation that we have a clown
shop running the country, rather than a responsible Parliament. "
You'll get no argument out of me on that one mate!
Geoff
| Geoff,
Landcruiser HDJ78,
Grey hair is hereditary, you get it from children. Baldness is caused by watching the Wallabies.
Lifetime Member My Profile My Blog Send Message |
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Reply By: Fatso - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 21:05
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 21:05
Remember the hole in the ozone layer & how devastating it was going to be. Especially for Tasmanian tourism. They had it right over them & it was growing.
Well do you know how it was fixed?
All Gore made a movie about "GLOBAL WARMING" & everyone forgot about it & moved on. That's how it was fixed.
The pollies & the media are running with this just as they did with the hole in the ozone layer, ficticious weapons of mass destruction, the oil crisis, the nuclear holicost, boat people, the asian invasion, ibola virus, bird flu, SARS & dozens of other crisies.
Thank god we have got the government we have cause they can save us & the opposition can't.
Heard that sort of crapp before
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Follow Up By: Member - Royce- Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 22:26
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 22:26
Bad example. It was fixed by legislation and international agreement to stop using CFCs.
That's what they are trying to do now... not much chance of success though, because it's a much bigger scale problem.
It will be interesting to look back at how things have gone in 30 years.
My position is that a little political tax won't do too much harm. We end up being the good guys. The money churns around. We'll be okay.
I don't like the fear campaigns. Do the right thing. Make the environment a bit better and pay me heaps for the 60, 000 trees I've planted over the last 20 years. [nothing like a vested interest to crystalize a view].
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Reply By: BuggerBoggedAgain - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 23:06
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 23:06
Mother Nature tried to limit population explosion by various epidemics, but todays scientists keep foiling her plans by introducing cures, the Black Death was a doozy, wiped out 25 million ppl, a quarter of known population, typhoid Mary was a good woman too, she tried her hardest,various flu's have come an gone, the latest is swine, not nearly as good as plagues, apart from dropping a few nuclear warheads what other ways can we reduce population growth,
In India a baby is born every 12 seconds, in China every 15 seconds.
Its all very well to say we need to cut down on population growth but how?
I say the next time a plague is discovered let it run its course, its natural selection,fittest of the species will survive, stop interfering with mother nature.
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Reply By: Member - Graeme W (NSW) - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 23:09
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 23:09
Cleaning up the environment is obviously a worthwhile cause. What you have to remember though is that all the talk about an ETS (or Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme as it's called by the Govt), is that it is Carbon Dioxide (CO2) that is supposed to be the driver of climate.
The link below shows that greenhouse gas makes up 2% of the atmosphere. Of this, CO2 makes up about 3.6%.
Man's contribution to this 3.6% is only 3.4%. So, approx 96.6% of CO2 emissions come from natural causes.
CO2
Make of that what you will. All I say is keep an open mind and do your own research. There is plenty of info on the net if you are interested.
The Climate Research Unit that provides a lot of info to the UN, has just had emails either hacked or released by a whistleblower. Their head (Phil Jones) has admitted that they are genuine. They point to some less than satifactory methods. Try a google
search for "climategate".
I'm not in any way involved with any of this process. I'm just giving an opinion based on my own research. You can take it or leave it.
Image Could Not Be Found
Graeme
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 23:47
Sunday, Nov 29, 2009 at 23:47
Careful Graeme you may just get labelled a climate antagonist or sceptic posting info that could cast some doubt about what is being told to the masses.
Some just choose to remain naive and refuse to look at the big picture, undertake some research and question what is being said.
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Follow Up By: Member - Amy G (SA) - Monday, Nov 30, 2009 at 17:25
Monday, Nov 30, 2009 at 17:25
Honestly, to have any scientific credibility whatsoever that graph really needs it y-axes labelled!
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Reply By: Gone Bush (WA) - Monday, Nov 30, 2009 at 07:11
Monday, Nov 30, 2009 at 07:11
No matter what side of the Climate Change debate people support, the proposed legislation Rudd and Turnbull want to push through is fundamentally flawed.
It will be punishing our own citizens and our economy.
It will require us to pay developing countries huge amounts of money while they continue to pollute.
And it will be enshrined in legislation. It will be Law.
I hope it falls over.
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Reply By: Member - Lionel A (WA) - Monday, Nov 30, 2009 at 08:37
Monday, Nov 30, 2009 at 08:37
The subject has been pounded to the point I have become totally numb to it.
Any mention of the word 'Climate', I immediately switch off.
Cheers.......Lionel.
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Follow Up By: George_M - Monday, Nov 30, 2009 at 09:46
Monday, Nov 30, 2009 at 09:46
Me too.
As a carbon-based-life-form myself, I place great faith in our ability to adapt.
George
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Reply By: brushmarx - Monday, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:39
Monday, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:39
All this debate is educational, but all we get out of it is reinforcement of personal beliefs.
Whet we need is a realistic fix.
Rising sea levels appears to be the first criteria to be managed, and slowly adjusting the alleged cause of the problem will not fix anything short term.
We need a quicker fix.
(a) Pump sea water into low lying areas, like
Lake Mungo, Lake
Eyre etc, and similar low lying areas on other continents. This would change local
weather systems, causing inland rainfall, further reducing the effect on sea levels, and improving agriculture in these current barren areas..
(b) Kill the whales and dolphins. This reduction to the displacement of water should lower the sea levels a few millimetres.
(c) Tow the moon a bit further out in space. This would reduce the tidal influence, again lowering the sea level affect on high tides.
Either these or similar fixes, or wait until the recent start to Global Cooling phenomena kicks in properly and we need to start increasing our "carbon footprint" to minimise the current trend that the United Nations is trying to force onto us.
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Follow Up By: Dasher Des - Monday, Nov 30, 2009 at 14:07
Monday, Nov 30, 2009 at 14:07
Something else we can do too Brushy, we can get our governments to construct huge desalination plants everywhere and we can then drink the water to counteract the rising sealevels.
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Reply By: Member - Amy G (SA) - Monday, Nov 30, 2009 at 17:32
Monday, Nov 30, 2009 at 17:32
I think the sad thing is that the media hype has completely overtaken the research that has been done. The IPCC has presented their reports and it has been shown since publication that their estimates were actually conservative, but every time I hear "climate change" or "global warming" on TV it makes me want to turn the thing off. There is so little understanding of the issues- and I can understand why, because it takes years to have enough understanding of the theory to make any sense of it all. In reality, the average person can change pretty much nothing, as much as we would like to believe otherwise... might as well take a leaf out of Kev's book and enjoy life in the meantime :)
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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Tuesday, Dec 01, 2009 at 01:27
Tuesday, Dec 01, 2009 at 01:27
One of the things about most reports are they say by 2050.... most of the people above you, including me wont be alive..... :-) or :-( which ever way you look at it.
But I'm sure you are a lot younger (or Phil is VERY old :) and may live that long. so it is easy for older people not to believe and can the idea as they will not be around to witness the problem...
Our Swan River is dieing and they have found 9 or 10 old rubbish tip that where on the foreshore of the river dating back 200 year (if I'm wrong someone WILL correct me LOL). Million's of dollars to repair, It was not the fault of the people years ago,,,,,,,, they didn't know any better...mmmm.
Thats why the
young have to learn and do better.. Not in anyway meaning you, just the
young are the future..
Cheers
Kevin Rudd
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Follow Up By: Member - Amy G (SA) - Tuesday, Dec 01, 2009 at 09:55
Tuesday, Dec 01, 2009 at 09:55
G'Day Richard,
First, I won't tell Dad that you said he's old... ;-)))
I will have my 68th birthday in 2050 and hopefully I will still be alive. I guess my point is that there is so much talking and not a whole lot of doing, and the sad thing is that I don't think there is going to be a whole lot of doing, because in reality, none of the contributing countries want to completely change their infrastructure, energy resources, lifestyle, manufacturing output, etc. Doing what is actually required to change anything in the atmosphere is economic suicide, and we all know that the economy comes first over the environment.
You are right about the beauty of hindsight of course, and it is good that they are cleaning up the rubbish tip on the river. I had the experience of doing some work on the
Eyre Peninsula a couple of years back in a lagoon which was located between a rubbish dump and the beach. The soil in the lagoon smelled like hydrocarbon- disgusting- but what was worse was that the leachate was flowing with the groundwater directly out to sea. Clearly these things weren't an issue when they built the dump, just like the dump on the river.
I do get my knickers in a knot though when people blame the lack of flows in rivers on climate change... but that's a story for another day.
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Reply By: Mandrake's Solar Power- Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 16:18
Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 16:18
According to the Mayan Calendar we aint gunna make it past 2012 ..
Rgds
Mandrake ( a former Mayan )
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Reply By: cycadcenter - Friday, Dec 11, 2009 at 03:32
Friday, Dec 11, 2009 at 03:32
Here in the USA it is soo damn
cold.
Bring on global warming
This from the news this morning:
The storm drenched California in rain, blanketed the mountain West in snow and shattered snowfall records in Flagstaff, Ariz. earlier this week. Wind gusts of up to 100 mph were reported in New Mexico, wind chills as low as minus 40 hit southern Montana, and heavy rain and flooding affected parts of the South, according to the National
Weather Service.
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