"Why Warriors lie down an die"

That's not a very nice comment to make , you don't have to tell the world and be hurtful. Think before engageing Mouth

Doug

You've got to be joking!!!

OZwasp,
How silly of me: My God , what was I thinking?
Quickly slap my little, innocent soft pinkies......................
How remiss of me.
One thousand pardons Sir.

Sober up? hahaha. More like look down, buddy. As members, we may resolve this off-forum.
Thanks for your input Waspie.Is good.
Jeff.

ozwasp

Seems to me it's not a political forum for Jeff but it is for everyone else, Jeff might be out of step on some issues , we're all guilty of that ,
Another thing, You might not know of Jeff's past background, I do to a point and instead of wiping your boot on him I think he deserves a bit of respect , after what he's been through an apology would be more in line ....if your've got any gumption at all, that is

Doug

Regardless of his background, I was pointing out that this is not a political forum. If he freely admits writing onto this forum, or onto any forum while he's on the bottle, then how is anyone meant to respect him?

I'm sorry if you perceived my words differently, but don't criticise me for not having common sense... I think an apology would be in line from you.

ozwasp
Your a cruel mean person , I don't need to communicate with such morally low people,

Doug

Please tell me how I have been (a) Cruel, (b) mean and (c) morally low?

Gee settle petal, whilst this forum doesnt say POLITICAL is has gone and prolly will go that way and this in the future. and we doiscuus things from our own viewpoint, no need to bag each other. Lets bag the issues eh?

Bonz
Where ya been mate , you been missin' all this political D E B A T E
SSsoo seeing as your late you better do this test.....lol

Site Link

oh my I thought of a leek. Obviously not normal.

Oh your normal alright JUST GO TO THE TOILET FIRST next time then ya won't have leeks on the brain

Richard
For cryin' out aloud , theyre not going in there with guns drawn. Theyre going to try and help kids that are being MOLESTED , do you want that to continue, When the PM does nothing you scald him, and when he does something , you scald him, Geez he has the support of Rudd as well , take the politics away from this and show a bit of..... whatever it takes ,

Doug

That's not the point Doug, who care about which party is in power..

you have to ask yourself why?

for the kids, think about it, flare up in NT, last year. small things done..(maybe)

now just out of the blue, we have the answers.. me think not, (also methinks I can't be stuffed anymore).

"whatever it takes" that what many people are against, are they not..

I'm cool

Richard

Funny Richard, last I heard the Chief Minister in the NT was actually supporting it on PM last night, because she was going to be getting resources. I would love to see people being encouraged out of a very sad situation. I think Jeff is over-exaggerating. Queensland has it's own horrors, dealt with improperly. I think the rest of Australia is holding it's breath on that one.

The people we are sending aren't going in with guns against our own. I think people should recognise that our Commonwealth Police have been given special sensitivity training, especially for situations like dealing face to face with people. To wit, the situation in the Pacific Islands. No issues are black and white, Australian training has defused many situations.

Even our armed forces training, and may be especially our armed forces training these days covers cultural sensitivities. They are amongst the most professional in the world. A past employee has returned from Afghanistan recently and has given accounts locally of the issues. He had been in Indonesia as well. Australian and Dutch troops seemed best prepared for all of that to work WITH local people.

I agree, what ever party was there may need the same treatment to get some treatment. Employment in remote camps may be the most difficult, but they need functional communities and Elders that are allowed to function without intimidation.

Richard
So your attitude is stay away, sit on ass and ignore, be like the the bloody Do-Gooders and Activists and do nothing in the hope it does away and no one gets offended, Thats why the situation is to the point it is today because people won't act, Govt' won't act, The indiginous crap stirrers get the air play, ie the minority gets heard whole the majority is pushed aside by BS and on and on it goes like a festering boil, then when someone does do something then everyone says ...oh its an election ploy , It amazes me why people have to associate politics with a child abuse and drugs crisis, Is it easier to just sweep it under the mat and let it get worse, And of course if everyone has ideas like yours and few others on the forum of course not a thing will be done, It is the white people, the white Governments, the useless bloody white Do-Gooders of Australia that have ruined a once proud race of people, They all screamed that the Aboriginal should have equal rights ,Rights to go and buy booze and wipe themselves out, rights or is it forced to live like white man, have white man religion B.S stuffed down thier necks, given free money to squander on drugs and booze, They have had all incentives to a decent life removed , no incentive to work for it because it's handed to them on a plate, So don't tell me a load of political Bull S t about what the govt' should or should not be doing , at now something is trying to be done , don't be a thorn in the side,

Doug

Doug, I think Richard is all about waving a manual that is now freely available on The Australian website where invasion of all sorts of homes when he refers to

quote"the hole thing is getting out of hand..

it about time the masses take over again.. ;-)"

Obvioulsy got some sort of bit between his teeth

John
See todays news on the web, as you can see they are getting worried that the truth is going to get out

AAP - Aboriginal groups will deliver a letter to Prime Minister Howard, urging a re-think of his intervention plan to stamp out indigenous child abuse. Read more...
au.news.yahoo.com/070213/2/12emp.html

Sorry Doug, but your talking like a white man again..

And John, things will change when all you old lot are gone and the baby boomers are gone, and we are left with the new thinking people, that hopefully didn't have to listen to all the crap from there old folks, and can think about things and make up there own mines,,

But we just hired a new apprentice and (worse luck) he talks he's old man's talk (crap) 19 yo finished year 12 tee and can't think fore himself. that saddens me.. I have a hard job on my hands...LOL

John "Richard is all about waving a manual that is now freely available on The Australian website where invasion of all sorts of homes when he refers to"

I don't understand this.

Cheers Richard

If any wording in this reply is wrong or offends .. don't blame me blame my teachers ;-)

Richard
you clown I am a white man thats why I talk like one, I was raised by my parents and given values , Bought up to respect others older , sadly thts lacking today because there is no disipline at home or in schools , they run about like thugs, I can tell you I'm very thankful I was not your kid , and if you think the new generation is going to be a better lot I feel bloody sorry for this country ,
Of course the 19 y/o cant think for himself , today there's a cult of young idiots running around like little bloody gods telling us with years of experience how to do things, Rack off Richard ,, you bore the crap out of me , go and find a life ,

"But we just hired a new apprentice and (worse luck) he talks he's old man's talk (crap) 19 yo finished year 12 tee and can't think fore himself"

Now Richard, lets just hope he knows enough to tell you and his old man to get stuffed. Then he can form his own opinion which will probably, with any luck, be quite different to both of you.

Grumps

If he can learn to tell me to get stuffed and back it then thats good, I have done my job.. but he must be able to think. not just listen to me or he's old man and repeat what we say..

he can think for himself... it's got nothing to do with opinions (this forum is full of them) it's all about being taught something gleaning that info and being able to think through it..

not like Doug, he thinks because he older than everother living thing, and has seen more and knows more them ever other living thing he knows it all...LOL

He's one of the people I hope things get better when the older move on.

"Rack off Richard ,, you bore the crap out of me , go and find a life"

showing your class again Doug..

Richard,

As long as you don't necessarily equate "things getting better" with your own opinion on how things should be. That would be a pointless exercise.

Oh come on Richard, you arn't that dull. As quoted as the Manual on How to Stuff Up. From the ACTU http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/files/actu_campaignmanual.pdf how to get into people's homes and tell them the way they should vote. I guess I could look further for you and give you the Joe Hockey quotes. No, I don't blame your teachers, you are older than that.

So you aren't a baby boomer then Richard? I know all things change, been like that longer than I have been around.

Gramps, think some are brought up with multiple choice questions.
Choose one of i) for ii) four iii) fore iv) flour. They don't know where they apply. Geez mate, wish you were off to Warraweena?

Hahahaha JohnR, I was wondering where you were hiding :)))) I'm pi$$ed re Warraweena as well. Looks like the EO group are spared putting up with me in close proximity for 12 months at least LOL

ps multiple choice questions always baffled me :))))

John. come on, I don't read the Australian I'm a ABC man..LOL

No must admit ,.. I will clam that quote as my own... arrrr.

Yes I'm a baby boomer, the world will be a better place when I leave it (in both sense of the word) ... :-)

Sorry Gramps, it took me three or four time to read it for it to make sence...LOL

"As long as you don't necessarily equate "things getting better" with your own opinion on how things should be. That would be a pointless exercise."

No I don't but I can only wish... ;-)

Richard ( bleep ) to some LOL

"Richard ( bleep ) to some"

LOL we're all somebody's darling hahahaha

Dam it, it wont even let ME call myself a dichead...LOL

Hi Jeff,

While I agree that this is not the forum for this subject I can’t resist to chuck in my two bobs worth.
Disruption of race or place does not excuse child abuse, nothing does be it in a community or suburb. When abuse is known in a home in a 'comfortable suburb' which I presume is your way of referring to a well off white home, the child is simply immediately removed from that home & those parents.
When this child is removed from that comfortable home where the abuse is taking place everyone is relived and grateful that the child has been ' saved '.
Note: Saved not stolen.
While the reasons behind the removal of some Aboriginal children in the past are now known to be a huge mistake, that has nothing to do with today and child abuse.
But if children were removed today for any reason from any Aboriginal Community I would take bets the cry would go up about another stolen generation.
I feel that Howard or anyone attempting to solve the problem is between a rock and a hard place.
I’d suggest rather than read books about now non existent warriors one should attempt to get the current figures on proven child abuse, see where it is occurring and why then think of & suggest a better way to solve the problem and save all the kids.

I also think that the media has done their normal trick and over dramatised the event to hell, probably including using movie footage that that was taken heavens knows where and when. They certainly would have gotten plenty of reaction to all those shots of GUNS but then of course that is what the media wants and does best .

Personally I don’t give a darn what is done to abusive parents if it helps save one single child from harm. In my book anyone gutless enough to abuse a defenceless kid doesn’t deserve to be using oxygen, I don’t care where they happen to live.
I don’t know that what Howard has done is the correct move but the problem has been around for years so something needed to be done and done at once, not just discussed for a few more years.

A solution that keeps everyone happy …… yet still saves the kids …… I don’t think one exists !

Cheers, Anne

Well said Anne, my sentiments exactly. 100%. Some drastic changes have been needed for a long long time and at least this is a start. Regardless of timing or any political agenda which may or maynot be the catalyst for this intervention, I hope that which ever political party gets in at the next election they will continue to pursue this abuse until we can get it somewhere near right.

Cheers

Deanna

Hear Hear Anne. Its bigger than the Hatfields and the McCoys and no solution is going to meet all needs. But we have to try.

Anne
I agree with you, yes people have been raising this issue for years & when someone finally gets around to do something about it, they are "put down" because thay are making a stand. be it the right one or not, but @ least they are doing something.!!.
some of the people making comments on this forum should go up & have a look @ these communities & see the devastation that goes on with peoples lives.
u just have to drive down the main street in Halls Creek to see the situation. don't get me wrong I'm not bagging the people in Halls Creek.
anyhow good comment. cheers Tom

Im a lurker, eg visitor, but I just wanted to say Here here to Annes extremely well written comment. If only more of the unvocal majority could influence things as much as that vocal minority!!!

Well said Anne. At least something is being done. For far too long these wrongs have been perpetrated on the innocent. Should we stand back and wring our hands and argue about the correct way to help them? Or should we get behind the government and support them in their attempt?

I read once that there is no such thing as "an innocent bystander" if you're a "bystander" when such atrocities are allowed to continue, then you are definitely not "innocent". I can't speak about what is the correct way to do this but I am sure that each day that we prevaricate is one day more that a child suffers.

Viv

Anne, Danielle, Vivien,

Agree. In this case the end may very well justify the means. I'll cop it for that :((

Hopefully the 'do gooders' that run interference for the perpetrators of this great evil will now back off and have a damn hard look at themselves and what they have achieved

link text

I have been thinking a lot about this issue, and how once and issue becomes entangled with indigenous do-gooders it gets murky. If this abuse was happening in a normal white everyday suburb in Melbourne, the Department of WeKnowBest would blast in with wallopers ebhind them and snatch the children away to a "better" place, even if their information is wrong, they would swoop and snatch, and we would sit back and say "That is a great thing we have done for those children". Why should this not be different for all Australians?

The only thing that I cant fathom is Willems comment about Aboriginal Tribal Law, I do not know what Tribal law says about abuse and agree that we should take it into account, just dont know how due to my ignorance. Willem may well know the answer for he is a clever man.

I have been niggly all day about this issue, maybe because I have loved and lost my own, maybe because I hate the politicising of anything that we do to try to help our aboriginal inhabitants, maybe because I am getting over a cold. But anyways at least I feel better albeit only a little, now.

Peter, I really think that each State has it's own agenda and they function to varying degrees of competence. The thing is that the States have control over general policing, a lot more power than the Territories - including island territories. The Commonwealth can't over-rule states normal policing and what they can do. In this case a report has been done that is fresh and covers the divide and the abuse. It has been bottom drawered, but now more on the table!

May be they are questioning motives, but the report in the NT is two months old and has the detail the PM can act on.

I don't think the Beattie can act with clean hands after the case was tried there. I have never heard of a football injury where so much violence can take place, that has done so much damage to another man as took place in a lockup there. That one gives me the horrors thank you

yeah Peter,

I can just see the back of house boys latching on for something to promote the rodent with. electoral calcuations whirring away, and combine that with the caring howards response "We should have been more humble. We have our Katrina, here and now. That it has unfolded more slowly and absent the hand of God should make us humbler still" that makes me sick. this is the same grub who convinced voters that parents throw their children overboard, and gets top brass to help cover it up. election momentum.

btw that elder would have been Mick Dodson, fat too heavy for howard to cope with.

anyway, as the admirable Noel Pearson said, "If the plan is aimed at providing relief from suffering then this has priority over everything."

hopefully it goes a long way to helping the kids and communities.

Willem
Don't forget white mans religion , look at the trouble it causes all over the world, the root of all evil lies behind the doors of a church and a ministers home,

Doug you have hit the nail on the head in relation to native people and the lose of there traditional identity, in particular language and culture, i have seen it with my wife's people where her generation have lost their language which is important to retain tradition and culture, no language no culture. The church in its wisdom, either Uniting or Catholic decided that traditional clan Chiefs were to be ignored and to appoint whoever they thought would bend to their ways, I dare say this is similiar to alot of the problems associated with native people around the world.

Cheers
Mark

Mark
I don't travel the country with my head in the sand , I have been and seen , Yuendumu, Kiwirrkurra, Docker, Warmun, Elliott, I escorted houses to those communities passing by Papunya, etc, I see the way the people are in Newman, Alice Springs, Katherine,Mt Isa, Kids walking around with drink cans ....petrol in it ,

what a load of tripe

To what are you referring to in butchers terms. Monsieur Bonz???

this piffle Sir Willem

"the root of all evil lies behind the doors of a church and a ministers home"

Its a tautology of words

The Love of Money is the root of all Evil is the correct wording

What that says there is tripe

Arrrrrrr....OK...(thought it wa something I said)

Im reading that right??
Are you sticking up for the Chief minister?????Couldnt be!

Your political biases are showing again Barnesy.

Yeh, good on ya Gramps. A couple of days ago up here in Pt Hedland hospital emergency department where I work a little 18 month old girl was brought in with bleeding coming out of her backside. What do you think the cause of this was? How many times have you had to look after patients like this Gramps?

Get your head out of your backside and read the POINT I was making. That state leaders have wanted to initiate things with the PM for a while now but the PM has brushed them off every time. How long have the AMA been pleading with the federal government for more resources?

Let's hope these initiatives are the beginning of things changing for the long term. Working in consultation with NT, state and Aboriginal community leaders.

Yeah, good on ya Barnesy. What the hell does your first paragraph have to do with my comment. If you want to put yourself up as some sort of martyr, go ahead.

The State leaders have mostly done bugger all.

In NSW the previous Indigenous Affairs minister ( LABOUR ) is up on charges of child molestation and paedophilia. They have ignored for over 12 months a report stating very similar instances of abuse in NSW. They sacked the authors of the report.

The NT government did'nt even staff the federally funded police station at Uluru. They sat on the current report for nearly three months without doing a single thing.

The WA premier can not spare 10 officers to assist with the current initiative even though the police force in his state have an unenviable record when it comes to indigenous affairs.

The Qld govt has just overseen a whitewash in regards to events on Palm Is.

Of course, these problems have only been in existence since the present federal government came to power.

Why bother consulting with tribal elders. They are the same people who have sat through and in some cases undoubtedly assisted the perpetrators of these crimes.

The problem with ALL other attempts at solving these issues is too much consultation and nowhere near enough action, or funding, or resourcing.

And just so you have some more to chew on Barnesy

NT Govt arse covering