Why I SOLD my 200 Series Twin Turbo Diesel !

Submitted: Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 09:11
ThreadID: 100045 Views:125260 Replies:25 FollowUps:58
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I was not a Landcruiser owner by birth, but by conviction that it was the best and most suitable vehicle for my needs …for towing a caravan, tandem trailer and off road travels. I held that conviction for over 30 years starting with my first 4x4 in 1982 (diesel troopy). Over the past 30 years I have owned about 10 different models culminating in 2010 with my first brand new one…..a 200 series twin turbo diesel.
But after over 30 years I am now “Toyotaless”.

The 200 series is a mighty awesome towing machine…there is no question of that and it is without equal in its class IMO! But I have some real concerns about the viability of owning one outside the extended warranty period. I also believe the resale value of these will eventually plummet outside extended factory warranty if there has been some empirical evidence of expensive repairs paid by owners coming to light.

For example a leak in the power steering rack (a minor problem in itself) requires the engine to be pulled out…about $7,000 to fix, injectors (8) are $1,000 ea plus fitting, replace power steering hose @ $1,000 etc etc. While only a small minority have had these problems currently, nevertheless the probability of these issues occurring must increase with Kms and age. The 200 series fuel system is also very complex and particularly vulnerable to bad fuel or water in fuel…up to $8,000 to repair engine. In addition the front suspension is very complex and expensive to repair…just don’t hit anything hard or fast. The oil consumption issue has never been fully resolved for all vehicles either…what will happen as the vehicle ages? The alternator is also low down and vulnerable to water and mud damage in off road conditions…also expensive to repair as the KDSS stabilizer bar has to be removed to access (and KDSS re-set).

Then there are the little ‘niggly” things….that confounded tic tic tic of the injector all day long on long trips (I seldom play music while driving rather enjoy the peace and quiet). Lack of cargo payload (and cargo space) was also annoying….only 600-670Kg (100kg less than 100 series) ….and why Toyota build the 200 series with 8 seats beggars belief (how many families with 6 children could afford one ?). You can’t even take the 3rd row out legally without an engineer’s compliance certification.


Despite all of the above issues the 200 series was by far the best 4x4 I had ever owned by a country mile. But I no longer feel comfortable owning one long term outside of factory warranty period and the little annoyances are irritating and frustrating. That is why I have come to the hard decision to sell the 200 series before my extended factory warranty runs out and move on. I want to be able to sleep well on “windy” nights!
Cheers

PS I am not really Toyotaless…I still have my trusty bullet proof 60 series bush basher on my hobby farm.


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Reply By: Member-Heather MG NSW - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 09:19

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 09:19
Interesting to read your comments as we are non 200 series owners for the simple reason that they are so expensive to buy new, and having owned two near new second hand 4WDs (40,000kms) and been disappointed with them we are reluctant to ever buy anything other than new again.

Have you replaced it and if so, what with?
regards,

Heather
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Follow Up By: Member - Wamuranman - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 10:46

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 10:46
I was not going to muddy the waters of this post about discussing the replacement but seeing you have asked Heather (and John below), here is our thinking and research on the matter.

Our process of replacing the 200 series will be a 2 stage one.
We have decided to buy a Silverado HD LTZ 2500 with 6.6 litre V8 Isuzu diesel (296 kw and 1037 Nm torque) and Allison 1000 6 speed auto transmission – this a bullet proof combination (the Allison 1000 is designed for trucks up to 12 tonnes). The strength of the Aussie dollar has seen the price of these US imports stabilise in recent years to the degree that the above vehicle is now in the same “ball park” price as a Toyota 200 Series Sahara. But you get a lot more truck for your money in a Silverado IMHO - automatic locking rear diff, external engine cooler, external transmission cooler, exhaust brakes, electric brakes built in, electronic stability control, trailer sway control, all leather interior, BOSE sound, adjustable trailering mirrors (similar to clearview)..etc etc. Don’t have to add anything except a bulbar. I have spoken to 6 owners I have come across on our travels and all claimed better fuel economy when towing than I got with my 200 series. This model has up to 7.1 tonnes towing capacity and up to 1390 Kg payload. All this and more for the same price (converted to RHD) as a new Sahara!

But we are still investigating the “best” process of getting one. We are currently researching the possibility of buying one in USA ourselves, touring across country in it (Route 66 etc) and then shipping it back to Australia. Performax at Gympie are still happy to convert to RHD for me as a private import. That is why our replacement for the 200 series is a 2 stage process – it may take 12 to 15 months to get the one we want (we are only after an extra cab with short cargo box (tray) – these have a wheelbase of only 80cm longer than a Landcruiser (the crew cab long box versions are too big and cumbersome in my opinion).

As an interim tug for this years winter touring we have had to resort to buying a second hand Nissan (never thought I would say that) 4.2 turbo diesel cab chassis type (one with a 3500kg tow capacity). We plan to go prospecting in remote area this year and need to carry another 200 litres of water so a cab chassis is the only way to go -reluctant to put any more weight on caravan. We chose Nissan rather than Toyota cab chassis for reasons of comfort and an interior that is not “industrial” looking as SWMBO describes it…lol. Anyway its only for this seasons travels.
Cheers




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Follow Up By: teza - Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 10:25

Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 10:25
Hi Wamuranman

Interested to know how you got a 3500 kg towing capacity for a 4.2 Nissan Trayback. I have an 2006 trayback on rear leaf suspension and the tow rating is 2500 kg. Before the GVM upgrade the GVM was 3400kg

The Nissan paperwork states a 2500kg braked towing limit.
I know the later 4 cyclinder utes have a higher towing capacity.

I would be interested in upgrading the towing capacity on mine if it were possible.

Cheers Teza
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Follow Up By: Member - Wamuranman - Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 17:08

Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 17:08
Hi Teza,
I didn't go into details at the time for simplicity reasons...it was intended to be a post about my LC200 experience.
But my Nissan Cab Chassis is a one-off....an extra cab
It was cut down from a Wagon so still maintains its wagon tow capacity...3500kg
Cheers






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Follow Up By: mynance - Sunday, Jan 20, 2013 at 08:44

Sunday, Jan 20, 2013 at 08:44
You can get up to 9 tonne GVM with the Patrol Ute by Creative Conversions in Toowoomba but cost a lot.

Myles
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Follow Up By: Member - Wamuranman - Sunday, Jan 20, 2013 at 08:50

Sunday, Jan 20, 2013 at 08:50
This was a Creative Conversions job. I guess to get to 9 tonne it would be a 6 wheeler?

Cheers
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Follow Up By: mynance - Sunday, Jan 20, 2013 at 09:31

Sunday, Jan 20, 2013 at 09:31
Yes it was extra axle and air bags suspension, to tow 5th wheeler, ended at $18,000.00 all up but handles it with ease, and unlike most 5th wheeler set ups it's legal.
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Reply By: Gone Bush (WA) - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 09:30

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 09:30
I agree with some of your comments but I look at it differently.

The Extended Warranty is essential because the vehicle is complex and expensive to repair. But that applies to any modern diesel (or petrol if you look at the new Patrol).

Faiulures like you mentioned gather a lot more attention in this age of the internet but are still a tiny fraction of the 200s that are sold worldwide.

I just sold my 200 Series.... to the Dealer that's supplying our new one.

I'm glad I ain't too scared to be lazy
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Follow Up By: Member - Wamuranman - Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 06:53

Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 06:53
Hi GB,

That was another alternative that we considered....keep trading in every 3 or 4 years so that the vehicle you own is permanently under warranty. But we felt this was a hassle with changing/puting on all the accessories we need every few years.

Happy travelling with the new one...
Cheers
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Follow Up By: Gone Bush (WA) - Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 10:03

Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 10:03
Personally, I love the big Yank tanks. The Extra cab with the short bed would be my choice too.

But some issues, real or imagined, would stop me:

1. The driver's footwell is cramped by the transmission because that used to be the passengers's footwell in the US and it didn't matter over there (at least's the case in the F350).

2. Turning circle and general manouvrability can't match the Cruiser, and the Cruiser is Mrs Bush's daily drive.

3 I have heard anecdotal evidence of warranty support issues but can't confirm that. It may be improved with an outlet in Perth now. You should ask a lot of questions from existing GMC owners.

Anyway, your decision seems to be well researched and at least you have owned a 200 Series in the past. Most critics are doing so when they have never been behind the wheel of one.

The best thing is: it's great to have the choice !!
I'm glad I ain't too scared to be lazy
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Follow Up By: Gone Bush (WA) - Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 10:07

Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 10:07
And I agree about the accessories. However, I've looked at our travelling style these days and I will only be putting drawers and GVM upgrade on this one. No heavy bullbar, no snorkel etc etc.

If we aren't parked up on a riverbed somewhere by 3:30pm with a glass of white in our hand then something is seriously wrong.

I'll keep a spot for you.

I'm glad I ain't too scared to be lazy
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Follow Up By: Member - Wamuranman - Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 13:39

Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 13:39
Some good points you raised GB.
I never noticed the foot well being limited on the Silverado we inspected but I will take a closer look at that next time we have a look at one.
Its true it will have a larger turning circle but the extra cab short box is only 80cn more than a LC200 so I can live with whatever it is. We have a family car we use locally for shopping etc so the Silverado will only be used for towing and maybe a daytrip out somewhere. When towing I never turn sharply if I can help it anyway as I try to preserve the tyres on the tandem axle van from scrubbing too much.
Backup is important and Performax do provide a factory warranty on their work and I have stood in their spart shop at Gynpie...a big range they will ship anywhere to the nearest transport depot. They also said if a rare item fails that is not in stock they will "canibalize" one from existing new car stock (they have about 40 new vehicles in ther factory awaiting conversion at anyone time).
So I feel comfortable with backup and spare parts support. I guess time will tell in reality.
Cheers
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Reply By: Robin Miller - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 09:31

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 09:31
As a society we are moving towards cars being more complex and less fixable in the field Wamuranman and buyers would be well advised to take this into account with warranties etc to cover them the further out they go.

I decided that the 200 series and 4800 GU patrols were equal but the GU petrols are so much more fixable and less expensive and this was were I put my money.

In contrast to your warranty dependencies I have owned new petrol GU's for 11 years now and never had them serviced by Nissan as they are just so easy to look after.

Basically the 200's are a great car , but times and approaches to owning cars are changing.
Robin Miller

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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 11:39

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 11:39
I forgot to ask if you had any 200 series fuel consumption figures you could be reasonably sure off Wamuranman.

Preferrably non-towing , I note Toyota claims 10.5lt/100km but I don't think many get that.
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Follow Up By: Member - Wamuranman - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 12:04

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 12:04
Thanks for your comments Robin.
I am a fairly light driver so our consumption figures are probably as good as you will get.
On a round trip from the outer northside of Brisbane to West Wallsend and return (about 1645km) we averaged 10.2l per 100km.This was all highway driving (only 2 set of lights...one at Ballina and one to get onto the Bruce Highway).
Around town (urban driving really as we live on acreage on the northern outskirts of Brisbane) we generally use about 12l/100km.
The fuel consumption figures of the 200 series I was very happy with.
Out of interest towing a 2.75t van over 7000km weaveraged 19l/100km (all types of terrain).

Cheers

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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 12:12

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 12:12
Thanks Wamuranman , I hope your happy with your possible Silverado when it comes along.
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Reply By: Member - John M (NSW) - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 09:48

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 09:48
For the same reasons that you state is the reason that I have not upgraded from my 100 series V8 which has been faultless for 120K to the 200 series.

I have 2 friends who have 200 series and are both used for their work in outback and balcktop onroad conditions. Due to their work they both do about 60 - 70K kilometres annually. Each of these vehicles consume high volumes of oil and have major problems with ingress of dust, particularly on the rear tailgate which have no adjustment and Toyota will not accept responsibility of do anything about the problem. The dust ingress is so bad that one has to fit duct tape over the outer frames to slow down the dust as he is a aesmatic and will not be buying another 200 series.

I am interested to hear what you have bought to replace your 200 series.
Life isn't about how to survive the storm, but how to dance in the rain!

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Follow Up By: Member - Wamuranman - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 10:48

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 10:48
John,
Refer to my follow up to Heather above who asked the same question...what are we replacing the 200 with?

Cheers and thanks for your comments.

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Reply By: Shaver - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 09:57

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 09:57
I have a 2008 200 Petrol GXL & would agree with some of the problems you have had but I feel they have been overemphasized . The Steering Rack can be pulled out without removal of the motor, & yes they have had a few problems with it. Toyota have had rattly injectors in the Prado, Hi lux & Landcruiser, but they seem to function OK. Most Common Rail are expensive to fix if you get a gutfull of water. I agree the Alternator is low. If you buy the GX it has 6 seats. And finally I have a 60 12HT & they are bullit proof. I would rather drive a 200 and sit in quiet refinement than suffer a harsh ride & a expensive engine rebuild in a 3 ltr Hand Grenade !
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Follow Up By: Shaver - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 10:03

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 10:03
Should have said 5 Seats !
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Follow Up By: Member - Old Girl - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 15:35

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 15:35
Have to agree with Shaver
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Follow Up By: Fab72 - Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 12:34

Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 12:34
Shaver ...you have a 60 with a 12HT. Why would you ever want anything else? Those things in good nick will fetch close to the same $$$ as a 100 series despite the massive age difference.

Fab.
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Reply By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 10:06

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 10:06
I would not consider the 200 Series a good vehicle for remote area use. Even if under warranty the difficulties of effecting repair do not bear thinking about. OK so maybe it's not likely to happen but if and when it does, then it is little solace to remind yourself that you are in an elite 1%.
Maybe a great tow vehicle within populated areas but for the bush I'll stick to basics such as my Troopy thanks.
Cheers
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 18:48

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 18:48
Allan there are many other things that can make you stranded in a new or old car that you can not bush repair, the mechanicals of the 200 series are no different to anything else and the electronics are reliable.

Look at how many early petrol EFI 4x4s are still getting around with no problems with there electrics..... think 1992-on 80 series.

I think some get carried away with what may happen but never does.

The older the vehicle the less reliable it is due to parts wearing out or corroding, metal fatigue, plastic deteriorate and a raft of other causes.

Newer vehicle don't have the same amount of the above..... maybe when they get old it will be the same but like most thing with better engineering, and materials used it may not happen.

When travelling the number of older 4x4's with big problems making them undrveable that we see is increasing...... maybe lack of maintenance...... who knows.

We have over the year had little electrical problems in our vehicles but it has never stranded them.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 19:26

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 19:26
Yeah, guess your'e right Richard. I'm probably only justifying why I don't drive a 200 series. LOL
Cheers
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 19:54

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 19:54
I should have added....'Perhaps you should tell Wamuranman about it'!
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Reply By: mfewster - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 10:15

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 10:15
I have no interest in buying a late model 4wd for offroad use. I see no point in having a finish that I am scared to scratch; complex mechanicals and huge deprecaition. For me, the toyo 60 diesel series remains the perfect 4wd. With a few mods. Replacing the seats with old Honda buckets has made a huge difference to the comfort.
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Reply By: Ron173 - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 10:56

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 10:56
Have to agree totally, a wise move IMO

They just dont make em like they used to.

I have an older Navara, (lets not start the nissan toyota debate, thats not what my reply is about or highlighting) and it is superb in every way, I do all my own maintenance, inc valve clearances etc, and if it did break down remotely, I'm confident I could effect some sort of bush mechanics repair to get me out.

Trouble is, its now worth so much to me, as a replacement would be in region of 65k once all accesoried the same, and then I have a vehicle that I cant work on.:(((((

I'm now VERY careful with it, both in driving and security, cos if it was stolen or written off, I'd be in some strife!

So if you have an older 4x4, treasure it carefully!
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Reply By: Member - Oldbaz. NSW. - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 10:58

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 10:58
While I find it interesting to see a 200 owner opting out of the model before warranty
expires..due to the fear of high repair bills..I find it a little perplexing also.
Please do not take this as any sort of personal criticism..it is just my take on things.
You were happy to outlay around $90k for a 200 but not prepared to spend maybe
10% of that on a perceived large repair. Your choice, & ok by me.
I relate that concept to my 4WD, that cost me less than $15k. No it is not a 200,
sadly, but I would spend 10% of that in an instant, to fix any issue, & probably
three times that for anything mechanical.
I suppose that only shows I have more faith in mine, than you had in the 200.
I cant see what you can replace it with to negate such risk & the financial loss you
have taken by selling is surely higher than the cost of the repair that may or may
not have been required. cheers.....oldbaz.
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Follow Up By: Member - Wamuranman - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 11:18

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 11:18
NO Oldbaz I am not offended by what you say.
In fact it does make sense in a way. But really it is the total package of what the 200 series is that no longer meets are criteria as the best vehicle for our needs- not simply the high cost of repairs.
Your comment about spending 10% of the purchase price is a good one but what happens in the years to come when the vehicle is only worth $40K or $25K and a reapir is needed that costs (inflated to) say $12,000?
I agree that repairs on a cheaper car are more viable...as you have little or no depreciation. In a way you are substituting repairs on an older vehicle instead of depreciation.
But the points you make are worthy ones. Thanks for your comments.
Cheers
PS 200 series are still pulling pretty good money second hand. Our loss from new was quite reasonable for 3 years use in our opinion. But if we had kept it another 2 years when the extended warranty expired I fear a significant drop in value. Time will tell if I am right.
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Follow Up By: madfisher - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 21:07

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 21:07
I recently sold my much loved 98 jackaroo se. I covered 103000ks in 5 years. total repairs in this time $1500. I replaced it with one of the last v6 jacks ever made.
Cheers Pete
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Follow Up By: Member - Oldbaz. NSW. - Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 10:16

Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 10:16
G'day Pete, glad to see you remaining loyal to the marque..))).
My bread & butter model has reached 160k..cost nothing in repairs..
about $2k in extras..LR Tank, Tran cooler, OH console,towbar etc.
I expect it will see out my touring days, with only one more serious
outback sojourn planned. Tows the little van with ease.
cheers.....oldbaz.
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Follow Up By: madfisher - Sunday, Jan 20, 2013 at 10:15

Sunday, Jan 20, 2013 at 10:15
Bas we have 4 in the family now. The late wide trac versions are not as fuel efficent as the early narrow trac 3.5 due to being 160kg heavier and no free wheeling hubs. Although towing economy is similar. The only issue you may encounter in the next 50000ks is the EGR valve sooting up and the fuel pump starting to play up when hot and bothered. Note a Commondore EGR valve can be used at a quarter of the price but it has to face the opp way.
Cheers Pete
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Reply By: CSeaJay - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 11:37

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 11:37
This is a refreshing post and replies.
Balanced original post, well said. When I saw the title I thought Oh dear another one eyed view. quite the opposite. And the replies to now stuck to the point, not the man or trying to force personal opinion.

Back on topic like others said, whilst I agree with most (not all) things you stated, I see it a different way; in fact most modern engines have tricky bits, and whilst most 'issues' you noted do occur, I believe it is no larger fraction of total owners than any other modern 4wd. Probably at less cost than most others.*

The bottom line for me remains, when in the outback with my family I'd have much more faith in the reliability of the 200 to get me home safely (and in comfort which is a bonus) than any other modern 4wd

*As far as longer term ownership cost is concerned, our business model allows the partners to buy their own cars but the business pays all upkeep. The accountants keep record, and it is quite easy to the running costs. We have a 200, a Prado, BMWX5 and a Landrover Discovery. The two non-Toyotas are head an shoulders higher in servicing and parts than the two Toyotas.
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Follow Up By: Member - Wamuranman - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 13:13

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 13:13
Thanks for your positive feedback.
I always strive for a balanced view and constructive comments (not always achieved though).
Cheers
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Reply By: Dust-Devil - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 11:57

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 11:57
Wamuranman and Others

In Nov 2012 suffice to say I totally 'blew up' the OME 1HZ in the 1997 Troopy after many years of R & D abuse.

In early December I jumped in the wifes JEEP 2.8l CRD KJ Cherrokee and visited the machine/reconditioning shop to discuss a number of things being done and to be done to the engine.

When talking about costs etc etc, the 'head honcho' (young guy late 20s early 30s) told me the following about the aforementioned JEEP with the 2,8l VM CRD Diesel motor.

A few months before a female had contacted the machine shop as a last resort in finding a solution to fixing the same engine in her JEEP, which had had a catastrophic failure requiring amongst other things, 4 new pistons.

In short - the only supplier of the said pistons was JEEP (No aftermarket jobbies for this one) and they came as a complete kit with Conrod, Gudgeon, rings bearings etc for the Princely Sum of $5,000.00 yep Five Thousand a pop. $20,000 for four (4) of the suckers.

So he promptly told JEEP that a new engine would be better and was told that will be $38,000 thank you very much.

A brand new JEEP was only $42,000 plus on road costs etc.

He now knew why he was the last resort solution to this problem.

No! I don't know what eventually happened to the subject JEEP. Never asked as it was most probably better to not know.

It also indicates why Insurance Companies possibly write these new vehicles off so readily.

The punchline being - its not only the 200 series that are prone to the High Tech, Low Polution, more power, less fuel usuage very costly fixups/repairs.

It would appear that this may be the way things are possibly heading in the future with the outcome being - we will buy new vehicles, keep them for between 2-6 years, and then buy a new one, with the old one becoming a grey export to some other third world country. (Something like Japan)

I think I'll stick to the Troopy forever for off road business and the 200 for towing and 'town business'.

Regards

DD

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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 12:40

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 12:40
Hi DD

Having accessible spares , multiple sources of supply and a vigourus after market industry has played a big part in my car purchases , these things give one some level of controll, some manufacturers cars really frighten me with almost every issue requiring specialist tools or bits as your post describes.
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Follow Up By: Shaver - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 13:11

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 13:11
A friend of mine has just purchased the top of the line Jeep Cherokee with the VM Motori 3ltr Diesel. I took it for a drive & although new it had impressive pickup, was as quiet as the 200, but the ride in my opinion was not as good as the Toyota. It had all the bells & wistles including the ability of jacking up the ride height. But when you think towards the future what a nightmare. I can still remember the problems with the air suspension on my Ford LTD. I don't think I will mention the price of pistons on the VM, although he has money to burn so it would not be a problem. When he bought it he said he was going over to the dark side, so it will be interesting to see what happens long term, although I think he replaces his vehicles every couple of years (business).
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Follow Up By: Dust-Devil - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 13:18

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 13:18
Happy New Year Mr Miller

The Jeep story happened in Dec 2012 and the JEEP is now (Jan 2013) tooling around Darwin and environs with it's new and very happy JEEP owner.

The 2010 VX will soon be doing the same somewhere in Australia.

The 2012VX is another story altogether. What a dream car, even if I did give it a fat lip at X-mas time. Nothing a little insurance didn't fix. (LOL)

DD
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Follow Up By: Dust-Devil - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 13:32

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 13:32
Shaver

The JEEP was an excellent vehicle for what we used it for. Wifes daily driver, camper trailer tow vehicle, grand kids chariot, a bit of off road, sand (sensational in the sand) dog 'Rolls Royce', tourer -numerous trips to SA, Alice Springs, Qld, NSW & country Vic. Just a great vehicle all up.

There were a few teething issues with the engine (All under warranty) nothing spectacular. Huge issue with torque converter which sparked a world wide recall for replacement of same and a transmission rebuild of transmission pump and components. (all under warranty).

It had so much power that the mother screwed the rear Dana Diff pinion in half in the JEEP service centre driveway whilst being driven by a JEEP technician. I saw it happen and the dude was doing nothing untoward other than accelerating from a stop behind another vehicle. Either a faulty part or all the accelerating stresses came to bear at that critical moment. Who knows, who cares as all was fixed under warranty.

Other than that - just an excellent car which was on the for sale market at the time of the subject JEEP piston story.

So tell your mate to friend to enjoy his JEEP and use it for what it was made for.

DD
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FollowupID: 779412

Follow Up By: mikehzz - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 18:41

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 18:41
A VW TDV6 motor will set you back around $65,000 if you have to completely replace it. There's something awfully wrong with those figures isn't there? The motor companies are taking us for a ride.
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FollowupID: 779438

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 18:49

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 18:49
65K -your kidding Mike

I have a 4800 Patrol motor sitting in the driveway which will eat even Wamuranmans Silverado HD LTZ 2500 with 6.6 litre V8 Isuzu diesel

And you can have it for $9999 (on special till I get back from Knox city with a coffee !
Robin Miller

Member
My Profile  Send Message

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FollowupID: 779440

Follow Up By: Member - Wamuranman - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 20:09

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 20:09
Is that a "mates rates" price Robin???

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FollowupID: 779455

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 20:38

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 20:38
The deals off Wamuranman -while I got the coffee the wife got a birthday present - so she gets to play with her new washing machine - so I'm keeping my toy.
Robin Miller

Member
My Profile  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 779457

Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 13:38

Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 13:38
So Robin,

Your wife got a new washing machine and you got to keep your "toy"

You my friend are one of the last of natures true gentleman, and if I may add a very generous and practical one....(;-))..lol

Cheers
Pop
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FollowupID: 779533

Reply By: pop2jocem - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 12:00

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 12:00
Hi Wamuranman,

I agree with most of your concerns, I don't think the newer 4WD's or road cars of the latest generations are suitable/intended to be kept for long periods whether in or out of warranty. Keep in mind that accident damage such as you have mentioned (front suspension, water immersion) isn't warranty anyway. Yes these vehicles are going to be more expensive for repairs than their predecessors. One comment I would make, and please except this in the manner intended, maybe don't be quite so jumpy about the dark. Yes there might be a boogy man hiding there (repairs) but there may not. You already have laid out a considerable sum to buy a nice vehicle and you will be capitalizing your loss but it sounds like you also have a good replacement in the pipe line.
Worked repairing Alison transmissions for about 6 years so I know they are a pretty reliable unit.
Looks like I might be sticking with my old HDJ-75 with 1HD-FT for a while yet..lol

Cheers
Pop
AnswerID: 502858

Reply By: Kris and Kev - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 12:02

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 12:02
I think this thread is just a personal opinion about a model of vehicle. I have yet to find a perfect brand or model. Each to their own. It is like the old Holden V Ford debates years ago. And in social media you will get more people who will complain about something then the ones who give positive comments. I have read horror stories from owners and feel for them, but same for all makes and models. Lemons everywhere.
Yes, we have a 200 series, have done over 130,000 all over this country. We love it and will be keeping it as it suits our needs perfectly. When we bought it we knew the issues and possible costs as it gets older. Took the 3rd row seats out and have heaps of room, while still having our fridge and draw system there. I cannot think of any annoyances with our cruiser, only that we have no big trips planned for this year!
Yep, a 200 series is not for everyone, but so are lots of makes/models. So I am not real sure how helpful this thread is? There are lots of very good four wheel drive vehicles out there, just buy what suits you and your budget for now and the future. Kevin
AnswerID: 502859

Follow Up By: Member - Wamuranman - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 12:18

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 12:18
Thanks Kevin for your comments.
Every thread on this Forum is a personal opinion as is this one.
But this Forum is about sharing ideas, experiences etc as well as comments on our caravans, campers and 4X4s etc. This is all I have done...just sharing our experiences with a 200series, our reservations and why we are changing vehicles. Just thought our knowledge and experiences may be of interest to others.

And we are not closing the door on Toyota by any means. It may even mean that in 2 or 3 years time we will come back with "our tails between our legs" and buy another Toyota. But after 30 years of happy Toyota motoring we believe its time for a change. Only time will tell if its the right decision.

Cheers
1
FollowupID: 779401

Reply By: Echucan Bob - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 13:07

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 13:07
I've been driving my son's Lexus LX470 over the last few weeks. Actually, he bought it from me for $5000. I bought it new in 1999 for $121k. It has done 360,000 km. When new, the fuel line parted while on an out back trip. Other than a minor wheel issue, it has been very reliable. It still drives like it did when new. It has been on a few desert trips. On one trip it came home minus front and rear glass! It is pretty heavy on juice. The main tank is good for less than 600 km at highway speeds. Towing pushes it up to 20 L/100 km. Interestingly, you can pick up and LX 470 for less than the equivalent 100 series. If the 200 is half as good as this car then I'd be pretty happy with one. I actually prefer to drive the Lexus to the BMW X5 35d that has replaced it as a highway cruiser.
AnswerID: 502864

Reply By: Dust-Devil - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 13:39

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 13:39
Wamuranman

Take no notice of what we have all written and just go ahead and get/buy one of these
Silverado HD LTZ 2500 with 6.6 litre V8 Isuzu diesel (296 kw and 1037 Nm torque) and Allison 1000 6 speed auto transmission jobbies as I am dying to know what they are like.

Look forward to your feedback on same.

Regards

DD
AnswerID: 502865

Follow Up By: Dust-Devil - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 14:00

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 14:00
Have a look at this link

Silverado 2013 2500HD

The USA Bluebook recommend starting price for this vehicle new is US$45,115

So a trip to the USA, buy one, drive it on a year holiday and then return with it, has possibilities.

Or get one a year old ( most probably buy it for US$ 30-35,000) and ship it back.

DD
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FollowupID: 779415

Follow Up By: CSeaJay - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 15:38

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 15:38
DD

Then there is that matter of Left Hand Drive
;-) ;-)
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FollowupID: 779424

Follow Up By: Member - Wamuranman - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 19:35

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 19:35
Yes that is correct CSJ but we have official second tier manufacturers in Australia that can professionally convert to RHD and the finished job is so good you cannot tell the vehicle didn't come out of the original factory built that way.
Even with this cost included the Silverado HD2500 LTZ 4X4 V8 Diesel is about the same price as a new Sahara.
Cheers
0
FollowupID: 779446

Follow Up By: fisho64 - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 21:47

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 21:47
what is the cost of the conversion?
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FollowupID: 779475

Follow Up By: Member - Wamuranman - Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 07:12

Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 07:12
Hi Fisho,

The conversion costs vary between models and the 2nd tier manufacturers that do it. Performax in Gympie are the dearest but talking with the Silverado owners I have met they all say they do the best and most professional work - their all up price is about $38,000. The company in Victoria does the conversion for about $33,000 I think. I know Performax have $millions of dollars of specialised equipment including a 3D reproduction machine. The finished quality is immaculate. The conversion takes about 5 or 6 working days in their factory (using probably pre made components for a particular model).
Cheers
0
FollowupID: 779499

Reply By: olcoolone - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 18:24

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 18:24
I think your being a bit harsh with the 200 series.

Most of the problems you have mentioned are typical with any new model and may take 2-5 years to sort...... most problems are sorted under warranty never to recur again.

The problems you have mentioned are very few and far between and not every one has a issue, you will find most manufactures have the same number of problems but just different areas.

As these vehicles start to get older the price of part will become cheaper and more after market replacement parts will appear..... 60, 80 and 100 series where no different.

As for weight.... the 100 series GXL turbo diesel had a 605Kg carrying capacity, the base model DX had 855Kg.

The 200 series as current has a 720Kg carrying capacity across the board.

Most opt for the GVM upgrade and nearly every 4x4 set up for touring is illegal and over weight.

Funny thing is every one including the media jumped on the so called low weigh carrying capacity of the 200 series........ only if the looked past their noses at the Y61 Patrol!

It seems many don't like change and technological advances...... maybe it the "i don't understand it" fear.

As for reliability the way some people talk it seems nothing before 2006 has ever broken down and left some one stranded.

I'm sure when computers first came out for word processing there where many who said pen and paper where so much better and pen and paper would never die.

I expect the 200 series to be no more less reliable than the 60, 80 and 100 series.
AnswerID: 502881

Follow Up By: Member - Wamuranman - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 20:45

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 20:45
Hi Olcoolone,

I do not believe I am being hash on the LC200 at all. In fact I said in my original post it was the best Landcruiser I had ever owned and that is towing capacity was awesome and without equal in its class. Hardly being harsh I would suggest.
The pay load on all models is NOT the same….it can’t be because they all have 3300kg max GVM but come standard with different factory options eg KDSS in VX and Sahara. The payload for the GXL is 710kg and the VX and Sahara 690 kg according to official specifications. My apologies though re the 100 series….the 2006 GXL has a payload of 750kg on the website I looked at (only 60kg more).

My understanding is that you can take the 3rd of seats out only if the clip out…if they are bolted in (as in the 200 series) you cannot legally do that without a mod certificate. I may be wrong but that is what I was told when I enquired. My comments in my post were in good faith and my intention was to be as objective and accurate as possible.

I acknowledged in my post that the issues raised are only found in a small minority of vehicles. My concern is, rightly or wrongly, that these issues will become more prevalent as the model ages and become prohibitively expensive outside of a warranty. In many cases the cost is a high labour component due to the complexity of the LC200 and the location of many components – so its not an issue of cheaper after market components at all.

You seem to have a degree of anger in your response olcoolone – I am sorry if you are offended by anything I have said. That was not my intention…..to be emotive or alarmist in any way. I still love Toyotas and one day may another one…the door is open. But after 31 years of Toyotas we chose to move to a different brand…..not for one reason but for a multiplicity of reasons as outlined in my post (many of them minor). But in total they have prompted us to make a change. Only time will tell whether it’s a good or bad decision.

Cheers

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FollowupID: 779461

Follow Up By: olcoolone - Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 11:36

Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 11:36
No anger involved...... on forums I just get to the point and it's hard to add emotions when typing...

We have a 2011 200 series VX diesel and it's been trouble free, I'm aware of the problems a few have had but even on the LCOOL forum the problems are few and far between and most seemed to affect the earlier pre 2009 models.

The 200 series is still very bullet proof and as for KDSS.... IMO it's a must have with many benefits.

I'm happy with ours but no way over the moon with it as there are many little things I hate about it.

We run a mechanical business and find more and more people are hating newer technology due to the fact they don't understand it and you need a new range of test equipment and diagnostic skill....... this will change as people become more knowledgeable.

Over the last 15 year and especially the last 7 year we have seen automotive technology move at a astounding rate..... there are many mechanical businesses who are falling behind and will not work on anything under 5 years old.

As time goes on more and more information and faults will be at your finger tips via on line forums....... most common faults and fixers are now just a google search away.

When the 80 series landcrusier came out many touted to 60 series as the last great landcrusier...... when the 100 series came out many touted to 80 series as the last great Landcrusier and we have see the same with the 100 series vs 200 series........ maybe when to 300 series comes out every one will be saying the 200 series was the last great Landcrusier.

People soon forget the many expensive problems that were around with the previous models..... 80 series with big end problems, C pillars cracking as an example.

Have a mate who runs current model Nissan Patrols in a tour business..... his Patrol are used for outback traveling across good dirt roads, very rarely get using in 4wd low and are never over loaded...... the number of warranty problems he has had is unbelievable including have them off the road for up to a month waiting for parts...... we have welded numerous parts back on and modified parts to stop them constantly breaking........ Nissan says "we have never had that happen".

When you compare them to a Landcruiser you can see why they are so cheap.





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FollowupID: 779517

Follow Up By: olcoolone - Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 11:50

Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 11:50
Re rear seats..... There is a lot of misconception and some of it has come via incorrect advice from ill informed officials.

As it stands if the seats don't form a structural part of the vehicle,no cutting or welding is needs to remove or re install the seats and you are not doing it for commercial gains (ripping of the commonwealth) then you can legally with no engineering involved do it.

If you do get it engineered then it is harder to go back to fitting seats legally as you have changed the vehicles compliance.

Have a look here...

http://www.outbacktravelaustralia.com.au/4wd-mods-legalities/4wd-modification-legalities

Under seat removal.

Our 200 series only has the two front seats.
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FollowupID: 779518

Reply By: olcoolone - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 18:31

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 18:31
Oh and another one of your misconceptions........... "You can’t even take the 3rd row out legally without an engineer’s compliance certification."

Yes you can as long and they can be unbolted with normal hand tools and can be re installed with no welding or structural change.

The only time it becomes an issue is if your using a passenger vehicle for a commercial application....... You buy a People mover that's on cheaper rego and insurance, you remove the seats use it for a courier van for commercial gain that should be on the more higher rego and insurance premium.
AnswerID: 502882

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 19:27

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 19:27
Nice post, and like you I have a lot of concerns about getting a brand new 200series but in the end, it was the vehicle I wanted, so I bought a new one.

The way I see it:
- Every new model of any vehicle has teething problems. Look at the Nissans, Amarok, BT50, Prados, even Pajeros - just read the owner forums and they all come up with a list like yours. Toyota has a reliable history of sorting these out as the model ages - oil consumption, injector problems, leaking water pumps, power steering etc etc gradually become more reliable and people stop whinging about them.

- If I bought 2nd hand I'd have no warranty, pay top dollar because of high resale plus stampduty, have to repair/replace bits and have an uncertain history.

- If I bought brand new, I buy a vehicle that has been sorted over the previous 6 years, all the model upgrades such as reversing camera, satnav, leather, fridge, get 3 years factory warranty, Toyota fixed price servicing at $210 a pop, certain history, and I could easily get a discount of $10k off the RRP. So that bit was a no-brainer.

How long will I keep it? Well, just went through that with my wife's Tiguan - ran out of warranty one year ago - might cost a heap to fix if something went wrong....but so far nothing goes wrong - its all a gamble. But that vehicle is so nice to drive that we can't bear to part with it and it has cost nothing apart from normal servicing every 12 months.

And I've owned a lot of the "bulletproof" Landcruisers in the past that have cost me money:
My 1986 HJ61 developed a head gasket leak at 150,000k - bucketload to fix that. It also needed new clutch and gearbox at 180,000k; new suspension because it sagged, alternator at 150,000k, etc etc
My HJ47 had a leaking radiator, noisy gearbox at 110,000k; warped the manifold, saggy springs,
My bulletproof HDJ79 busted a front diff doing normal 4wding like the 100series and Prado of the same era. Haven't heard of a 200series doing that yet.

The 200series TTD is a lot easier and cheaper to service than any of my previous Landcruisers.

there is no perfect vehicle - just buy the one that looks the best and goes the fastest!!!!
AnswerID: 502885

Follow Up By: Member - Wamuranman - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 19:43

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 19:43
Thanks Phil for your worthy and balanced comments.
I still love Toyotas and have not ruled out buying another one one day. But for now after 31 years of Toyotas we choose to make a change. You are correct in saying buy the one that is best for you.
There is not 1 single thing that has prompted this decision...its a multiplicity of a lot of things, many of them small. But combined they have helped us make the decision to try an alternative.
Only time will tell if our decision is the right one.
Cheers
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FollowupID: 779449

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 23:01

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 23:01
A change is as good as a holiday. We often need a new project. Yours will be a lot of fun!

My wife still wonders why I sold a perfectly setup 79series.....And she still wonders why I sold a perfectly set up Prado 8 years before...hehe

But I tell her I am purchasing a lifestyle....not a car!

Have fun with the Patrol and then the big beast!
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FollowupID: 779486

Follow Up By: olcoolone - Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 20:07

Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 20:07
A good set up 200 series makes a fantastic remote tourer and will be much more comfortable than you old 79 series.

We can cover more ground more quickly and safely due to better suspension set up than others like the 70 series.

If you want to get some ideas you welcome to look at ours.

The only thing is I would recommend a Lovell 3800kg GVM upgrade, we did a lot of calculating with weights and where to put stuff.
1
FollowupID: 779562

Reply By: putrol - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 20:01

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 20:01
after owning three toyotas five years ago i bought a 2002 nissan 4.2 & wish i had alot earlier it is simply brilliant it does every thing the old toyotas did only much much better & as its used as a 4wd it also did things easier than the toyotas i had the only thing that was better in the toyota was the fuel economy but i can live with that
all the positives far outway that minor detail to me (just my 2 cents worth]
AnswerID: 502889

Follow Up By: Member - Wamuranman - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 20:54

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 20:54
Its interesting that you should say that putrol as we have just got this week a 2005 Patrol cab-chassis with a 4.2 turbo diesel.. This is the first Patrol I have ever owned? But we wanted a cab chassis to carry extra gear and water...just not possible in a wagon. The Toyota cab chassis just did not have the comfort level or interior feel of a car.
This is our interim tug for a trip this year until we get a new Silverado.
Anyway this winter's trip will be in the Patrol...so I am looking forward to giving it a trial (and not have to worry about scratches and stone chips etc etc.

Cheers
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FollowupID: 779464

Reply By: Rangiephil - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 21:22

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 21:22
Just to counter some of the tosh in this post.

No I am not a jeep owner but am interested in accuracy.

Price of complete VM rebuild kit under $5000.

http://www.jeepoverstock.com.au/Store/Product/?id=1198
Regards Philip A
AnswerID: 502899

Follow Up By: mikehzz - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 21:45

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 21:45
That's the 2.5 diesel, the 2.8 is listed as $4295.
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FollowupID: 779474

Follow Up By: Dust-Devil - Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 23:49

Friday, Jan 18, 2013 at 23:49
This is gobsmacking, however it just gets better.

Firstly - I was just repeating what I was told re the JEEP parts (Piston, rod,gudgeon and bearingsetc etc provided as complete kit only by JEEP) and have since confirmed that is the case.

Secondly - The aftermarket supply issue. Once again just repeating what I was told, however will forward the above link to the machine shop in question. I reckon that they most likely just rang around known aftermarket suppliers or such like.

Thirdly - The JEEPOVERSTOCK site induced me to research the net a tad to see what the aftermarket situation was with the engine in question ie The VM Vitori R428 CRD Diesiel. The first thing I came across was this.

Chinese VM R428

I'll forward this link to the machine shop in question so that they can import a new engine if need be in the furure at the sensational price of US$4,200.00.

I think that this is even more gobsmacking than the Aust link.

DD

After seeing that, who knows what you are getting








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FollowupID: 779490

Follow Up By: mikehzz - Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 07:08

Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 07:08
My Jeep uses a Mercedes motor and drive train and I can tell you that buying Mercedes parts is way cheaper than buying the equivalent Jeep part. A simple example, a diesel fuel filter...$50 from Merc, $150 from Jeep. It's the same part. Jeep Australia is pretty much regarded by enthusiasts as being rip off merchants who you only buy from as a last resort....I've heard :-) We've gone off topic though.
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FollowupID: 779498

Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 14:04

Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 14:04
Stop whinging about parts prices you guys...lol

Some time ago we added a Husqvarna motor cycle franchise to an existing dealership. We duly received the parts disc to run onto our spare parts computer and started going through it to make up a list of fast moving parts to stock until we got a feel for what was going to be needed. Batteries we thought, because these things were designed to take off like a scalded cat the standard battery for the "electric leg" was about the size of clenched fist to provide the minimum cranking capacity and keep the weight down.
$600.00, no the full stop/decimal point is not in the wrong place. Six hundred dollars. We thought 'must be a misprint". Contacted the importer by phone.."no that's right $600.00"
Can't be, sent email requesting they contact the factory and confirm with their own records.
"Yeah sorry.. that's the genuine price"
Needless to say we eventually found a non-genuine replacement for from memory around the $100.00 mark.

Cheers
Pop
0
FollowupID: 779538

Follow Up By: olcoolone - Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 20:18

Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 20:18
I would be very careful buying out of China, I have a KTM endure bike that cost nearly $16000...... a mate said why didn't you buy it from China as the only cost $5000..... he sent me a link and the bike looked exactly the same as mine...... upon further investigation they turned out to be a copy...... they were advertised as KTM.

0
FollowupID: 779566

Reply By: get outmore - Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 10:19

Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 10:19
havnt read everything - I basically just kept reading the same stuff as always everytime a new toyotas comes out

- the 1hz was a hi teck time bomb waiting to fail when the timng belt snapped
- the small front diff on the 80 would never last
- EFI donks would never hack it out bush and a mechanic cant fix them like a carby
- the electronically controlled fuel pumps on the FTE motors would fail and cost 12k to fix
- IFS in the 100 meant it wouldnt make it out the driveway
- springs on the front of the 79 would never last

funny thing is over the years while some of this might be slightly true to varying degrees evrery ones come to swear by them and when something new has come out suddenly what was meant to be unreliable and expensive has suddnly become easy to fix and realiable and the new produce would never hack it

and as for 200 series going cheap - yep not holding my breath
AnswerID: 502941

Follow Up By: olcoolone - Sunday, Jan 20, 2013 at 12:04

Sunday, Jan 20, 2013 at 12:04
You forgot....... if you turboed a 1HZ you would blow it up and the gearboxes are not strong enough to handle the power.

Funny how so many have survived.
0
FollowupID: 779620

Reply By: AlanTH - Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 12:28

Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 12:28
When I read the initial post on this I thought "This blokes asking to get his head bashed daring to criticise an LC200" !
I thought that becauses a few months ago I passed on the problems my son has had with his which he bought new some 4 years and 40K ago and was accused of posting a troll and had upset just so many people. Poor darlings.
Galloping oil consumption dismissed as normal by Toyota in a high tech engine. Failure to pull away when put into Drive after a week sitting in the garage.
All quite normal according to Toyota, as was the failure of the stealer to top up the transmission oil during servicing I suppose.
Lousy payload necessitating a re-engineered suspension to take all his scuba gear plus tow his 3 ton plus boat which by the way it does with ease once it gets going.
His complaint was not so much the faults but getting no response from Toyota and when they did respond, it was a brush off.
After bringing consumer affairs (WA) in to help him, they fixed his engine and installed a new box which operates well.
Strangely the stealer/toyota instead of just fixing it did an internal hire with their used car side and hired him a Pajero for 3 MONTHS while they tested it and got new parts. That cost approx 3.5K per month.
Son was very suprised that the Paj with a much smaller engine towed the boat very well.
Nice to see fairly well balanced thread for a change.
AlanH.
AnswerID: 502953

Follow Up By: Shaver - Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 14:20

Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 14:20
Alan T

"Failure to pull away in drive after sitting for a week" is a common occurance with the 6 Speed Auto in the diesel. It is because the oil drains to the pan & is not a fault in the transmission. It will come good after a few minutes idleing (check LCOOL). I can't see how a new transmission fixed the problem. This peculier aspect does not pertain to the 5 speed in the 4.7ltr 200 petrol models, but may happen in the newer 4.6ltr as they have a 6 speed. I own a Petrol 200 with KDSS & love it !
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FollowupID: 779542

Follow Up By: AlanTH - Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 19:58

Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 19:58
Fault or not Shaver, Toyota changed it. Main disappointment was the time it took for them to admit there was anything wrong at all with the vehicle.
It's good now and I wouldn't say it's a great vehicle but at least it tows his boat well.
AlanH.

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FollowupID: 779561

Reply By: Ray - Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 16:02

Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 16:02
This thread has made interesting reading. We are on our 5th Cruiser and have to say that the 200 series is the best one yet. Cheap on fuel,great for long distance cruising and in the 2 years has been trouble free. We have used it to tow our 22 foot van. It handles it well. The transmission is very good for towing.
We also have a 2010 crewcab F350. For towing its much more stable than the Landcruiser,seems to be just as reliable,probably about double the power (it has been re-programmed)The tow haul mode with the trans which helps with braking is a big plus. Fuel use is more than the Cruiser. We get around 21.5/100 towing. We have had one warranty issue with the air con which failed a few days out of warranty but was fixed anyway (went out of their way in fact ) There is a bulge in the trans hump which limits room but I don't notice it in practice. Its better equipped than the cruiser inside. Its harder to park at the shopping centre.
AnswerID: 502968

Follow Up By: Member - Wamuranman - Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 17:22

Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 17:22
HI Ray,

Thanks for your comments.
I assume your F350 is a diesel?
I have heard good reports about the tow haul mode on these yank trucks. I assume you are talking about the exhaust brakes.
There was a Youtube clip about a comparison between the Ford F250, Silverado 2500HD and the Dodge Ram...and they put I think 7.5ton trailer behind all of them in the Colorado Mts....the amazing thing was the exhaust brakes was able to hold their speed constant down this mountain.. I can't find the link to it again.
Did you buy your F350 new ....was it a a RHD conversion or come into Australia as some did in RHD?
Cheers
0
FollowupID: 779553

Follow Up By: Ray - Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 19:57

Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 at 19:57
Yes it is a diesel. It has the 6.4 litre Navistar engine. The newer model available now has a Ford built 6.7 engine which is more fuel efficient than mine so I have been told.
The tow haul mode works by closing off the variable pitch vanes in one or both of the turbo's.Then the harder you push the brake the lower the gear the trans will select.If you need a lower gear just prod the brake pedal. It is very effective.
I bought mine new through the importer in Melbourne. They are shipped in LHD and converted there. They are American built,not from Brazil as were the earlier ones bought in by Ford. It is the second one I have bought there and they are reputable people.
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FollowupID: 779560

Reply By: Member - Outback Gazz - Sunday, Jan 20, 2013 at 11:02

Sunday, Jan 20, 2013 at 11:02
G'day Wamuranman


Lucky you worded your post "Why I sold my 200 Series Twin Turbo Diesel" and not

"My 200 Series Twin Turbo Diesel is a piece of $hit" coz I'm sure this great site would have been forced to shut down for starting a war - lol !


Cheers


Gazz
AnswerID: 503006

Follow Up By: Member - Wamuranman - Sunday, Jan 20, 2013 at 12:14

Sunday, Jan 20, 2013 at 12:14
Well said O Gazz,
Who would have thought this post would get nearly 2700 "hits". Just shows how passionate us Exploreoz folk are about our vehicles.
Cheers
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FollowupID: 779622

Reply By: Member - Wamuranman - Sunday, Jan 20, 2013 at 12:19

Sunday, Jan 20, 2013 at 12:19
Well folks thanks to all for your comments...positive as well as negative.
I think this post has run its course now....I won't be making any further comments.
I never dreamed it would create as much interest as it has.... about a 1000 more "hits" than Friday Funnies...now thats weird!
We are certainly a passionate lot about our vehicles...and thats a good thing.
Its also a good thing that we can agree to disagree. We are fortunate in Australia to have a choice of a wide variety of vehicles.
We are so privileged to live in this great country.
All the best to all...happy and safe travelling.
Cheers

AnswerID: 503011

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