Coolers on roo bar

Submitted: Sunday, Jan 27, 2013 at 14:51
ThreadID: 100212 Views:3103 Replies:7 FollowUps:9
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Hi Guys,
Looking at having my oil cooler and extra water coolers put on to the roo bar. Trying to find someone in Perth who would do this for me. Have enquired at a couple of places but the job seems to much trouble for them.
Has anyone had this job done in Perth and could recommend a few people I could chat to. I have a Troopie with a Brunswick Diesel in and on the very hot days it just heats up to much when I am towing the the off road heavy van. I have separate pressure gauges for the water and oil and on the long drags and hill climbs this just gets a bit to hot for my likening. No trouble in the cooler weather or when I am not on towing and the radiator is the biggest we can get in there.
Have tried channelling the air on too the cooler with large PVC pipe but this is not enough.
cheers
Brian
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Reply By: Member - Joe F (WA) - Sunday, Jan 27, 2013 at 17:03

Sunday, Jan 27, 2013 at 17:03
G'day Brian


You don't say which of the Brunswick Diesel engines you are running in your Troop Carrier and if the vehicle already has an engine oil cooler fitted as what was normal practice with a Brunswick conversion.


I also own and operate a 75 series Troop Carrier, with a 6.2 Chev diesel ~ my vehicle was one of the first in Newman to have the transplant done sometime back in 1993/4

The engine conversion came with a small engine oil cooler unit and that was about it as far as it went, my vehicle also had cooling system issues, so I began a process of up grading so I could eliminate what I thought was an over temperature problem.


One of the very first things I changed was the position of the Brunswick fitted oil cooler, from it sitting alongside the radiator/cowel to a position behind the air flow of the engine driven fan ~ in essence the cooler now sits in a direct air flow, I also replaced the engine oil pan/sump to the larger military version 10 litre unit.


I also replaced the Standard Toyota viscose hub fan, that in my opinion was inadequate for the amount of air flow required to push the hot engine bay air out of the now very "full" engine bay area ~ I machined up a mounting spigot that bolts directly to the Toyota waterpump pulley drive member and adapted an 8 blade all steel Holden Commodore fan ~ I also designed and manufactured an all Aluminium fan cowel as the Commodore fan has a larger sweep area compared to the Toyota fan.


The air being pulled through the radiator and subsequently pushed out of the engine bay is far more than the standard Toyota fan set up could ever displace.



One of the last things I changed was the radiator itself, I down sized the number of cooling tubes from the standard configuration of three rows of cooling tubes, to a two row ~ yes two rows of cooling tubes ~ giving the radiator a more open air flow and slightly larger capacity with larger tanks top and bottom.


The Troopy is my wifes daily drive but admittedly not always towing, but the vehicle is fully equipped for its role as the Mule for my tours.


I monitor top coolant tank temperature and also the bottom tank coolant temperature via two seperate VDO gauges ~ the standard indash Toyota gauge is not used at all.
The engine oil temperature is also monitored by VDO.


The Chev runs at a "normal" 89 degrees C ~ Yes this is its normal operating temperature and with a fully sealed and pressurized cooling system, it will happily run up to 115 degrees C and not have a over temperature problem.


These Chev Diesels run a normal 90 degrees C.


Safe travels :
AnswerID: 503471

Follow Up By: Red Tail Black (WA) - Sunday, Jan 27, 2013 at 18:28

Sunday, Jan 27, 2013 at 18:28
Hi Joe,
Thanks for your reply some great suggestions there that I have not done and that I am in the throes of doing. Unlike yourself I have to get other to do it for me and that is my trouble trying to get these coolers moved outside.


My engine is a 6.5 and 4 years old. I have VDO gauge monitoring water and Vdo Gauge monitoring oil as extras. When towing a 3.3 ton van I get concerned when the water gets over 105c and the oil goes to 115c especially on the hills. We have to turn the air-conditioning off to try and keep it below these.The oil cooler is presently where Brunswick fitted it. I will also look into the military sump as we had been tossing this around and did not know that you could get one off the shelf . Will get onto Brunswick Tuesday.
The reason I going for the outside option is have had a friend who had it done but his mate did this for him a few years ago and is no longer available to do it.
The bonnet scoop is excellent idea where did you have your done.
Have tossed around the idea of moving the airconditioning condenser up on to the top of the roof. Like you we are going to slowly ( money allowing) do a few of these options.
Thanks for your infomation
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Follow Up By: Rockape - Sunday, Jan 27, 2013 at 18:31

Sunday, Jan 27, 2013 at 18:31
Just to add to Joe's post. I used a genuine 2 core Aluminium Toyota radiator from a later model 1HD-FTE powered cruiser. Part number 1640017360. This radiator had a 33% gain of tube surface area to the coolant over the original. I extended the fan shroud to suit the new radiator.

It ran cooler due to it running a 1hz thermostat at 80c.

My oil cooler was the same as Joe's as well.

RA.
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Follow Up By: Red Tail Black (WA) - Sunday, Jan 27, 2013 at 18:54

Sunday, Jan 27, 2013 at 18:54
Thanks Rockape,
We had a new radiator put in by Brunswick when they put the engine in but might have to look into that area again as well.
cheers Brian
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FollowupID: 780172

Follow Up By: Member - Joe F (WA) - Sunday, Jan 27, 2013 at 22:57

Sunday, Jan 27, 2013 at 22:57
G'day Brian and all the other Troopy owners.


Brian, the two core radiator I had made for my Cruiser is actually a "Thicker" unit than the three or four row (tropical radiators).


The two rows of core tubes are signigicantly larger than all the other core tube designs, the two row unit has slightly oval tubes and by their alignment have a large surface area, the radiator core fins are almost like louvres but very thin so the heat transfer is over a fairly large area.



I still run the original air con condenser as Mr Toyota fitted it, there has never been an issue with the air conditioner shutting down as the engine coolant temperature rose to or above the factory set cut out point ~ as we all know the Troopy cabin is vast and requires a properly working system to keep it cool.


The bonnet scoop is a waste of time ~ don't go there ~ the fact that it is forward facing defeats the pupose of it working to expel hot engine bay air.


Just a side note: I also own a 80 Series Intercooled Turbo diesel which did have air conditioner shut down issues in the Pilbara heat, I went the way of fitting a PWR all aluminium radiator ~ problem solved.


Safe travels :
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Reply By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Sunday, Jan 27, 2013 at 18:55

Sunday, Jan 27, 2013 at 18:55
RTB, Please what is the NESA screen shown in your dash photo? Is it a navigation device or a reversing camera or what?

Cheers
Allan

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AnswerID: 503474

Follow Up By: Red Tail Black (WA) - Sunday, Jan 27, 2013 at 19:06

Sunday, Jan 27, 2013 at 19:06
Hi Allan, That is our reversing camera for the car and caravan, Have tow GPS that I put in when going away. The camera has been great especially when towing the van or backing it on.
cheers Brian
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Sunday, Jan 27, 2013 at 19:44

Sunday, Jan 27, 2013 at 19:44
Thanks Brian, It looked rather like the marine navigation devices that I have long thought would make excellent off-road navigators with the appropriate program and maps. I got all excited! Maybe one day it will happen.
Looks a good reversing viewer however.
Cheers
Allan

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Reply By: pop2jocem - Sunday, Jan 27, 2013 at 20:15

Sunday, Jan 27, 2013 at 20:15
Hi Brian,

When I did the conversion to my 75 series I considered the Chevy V8 option but a good mate of mine with the same vehicle had that done to his and is having various issues.
I chose the 1HD-FT engine to replace the 1HZ for no other reason than I am now towing a 22' van. I had the old engine getting a little warm for my liking when towing so part of the work which I did myself was removing the air con condenser from in front of the radiator and roof mounting a unit from Lyons Air Con in Kewdale. I mounted it up myself and the boys at Lyons connected it up and re-gassed.
Not sure how much extra cooling the turbo diesel needs compared with the Chev but with a standard 3 row radiator (flushed out) I can run all day towing our van on a 40 degree Pilbara day with the air con going flat out and the coolant temperature never gets above 90 max on a VDO gauge.
You mentioned considering this option yourself and my opinion is go for it. Not only does the air con condenser restrict the air flow but heats it up as well so the engine radiator is fighting against possible high ambients but also reduced air flow and extra heat from the condenser.
I'm not arguing against the Chev conversion which you already have. Just my thoughts.

Cheers
Pop
AnswerID: 503477

Follow Up By: Red Tail Black (WA) - Monday, Jan 28, 2013 at 11:56

Monday, Jan 28, 2013 at 11:56
Thanks Pop yes think I will defiantly move the air conditioner before our next trip in April. Will go to Lyons after work tomorrow and see what they can do.
cheers Brian
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Reply By: Ross M - Sunday, Jan 27, 2013 at 21:49

Sunday, Jan 27, 2013 at 21:49
Red Tail Black
I agree with Josef.
The fitting of a thinner more efficient radiator which passes more air, than a big thick one which tends to heat itself, is the first time I have heard of where it has been done.

Rockape also has a different radiator for the same reason.
Smart, intelligent, thinking, men. Should be more of them.

I am really glad to hear this, as many people have not been prepared to even consider a thinner one.
It is all to do with thermo dynamics and not popular beliefs. Fiker aint more gooder.

Something which may be missing on the RTB's engine setup is the original flow of air to extract hot air from the engine bay. Normally the passing flow is designed to remove engine heat by a small vacuum being created where the openings are each side of the engine bay.

RTB Why not add an electric fan to one of your water cooler panels or even the oil cooler too. These could be switched on when/as required for the hot times only.

A bullbar or removal of the OE plate inder the front pulley area can destroy the vacuuming effect and cause less airflow to be drawn out of the engine bay. This means not so much comes through the radiator to cool water in the radiator.
Some vehicles have a wide horizontal panel around 50mm deep at 45 degrees backwards, which forces air downwards and creates a vacuum effect to "draw" out hot air from the engine bay, whilst moving forward. That is "draw" "not drawer".

Just some observations.

Ross M
AnswerID: 503480

Follow Up By: Red Tail Black (WA) - Monday, Jan 28, 2013 at 11:52

Monday, Jan 28, 2013 at 11:52
Thanks for your feedback Ross
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FollowupID: 780204

Reply By: Member - Minty (SA) - Sunday, Jan 27, 2013 at 23:58

Sunday, Jan 27, 2013 at 23:58
Hi fellas, on the idea of scoops, I had a rear facing scoop made for my xj jeep. Basically it raised the centre panel of the bonnet at the rear about 20mm so that hot air exited the engine bay over the windscreen. Worked a treat! I also replaced the radiator with a copper ausie made three core unit.
AnswerID: 503483

Follow Up By: Red Tail Black (WA) - Monday, Jan 28, 2013 at 11:58

Monday, Jan 28, 2013 at 11:58
Thanks Minty yes this is one I will also do before I go.
cheers Brian
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FollowupID: 780207

Reply By: Member - Alastair D (NSW) - Monday, Jan 28, 2013 at 08:39

Monday, Jan 28, 2013 at 08:39
Brian,
Over the years I have known a number of people who have squeezed an alternative engine into various vehicles and almost all of them have had cooling issues. Just looking at the engine bay of most and I bet yours, there is just so little space left for air flow.

One solution I have seen that worked better than I thought was done on a troopy with a Holden V8 under the bonnet. He packed the hinges at the rear of the bonnet so there was a gap of about 1" thinking that this would let the hot air out. It made very little difference until he put 2 electric fans from the wreckers (ex commodore I think) on the outside front of the radiator grille with a rough sheet metal shroud. It looked crude but worked quite well. His approach was to spend as little as possible and it worked for him. Perhaps it is worth trying the hinge packing as it costs nothing and can be easily reversed.

I removed the a/c heat exchanger from a HJ60 years ago to fix a leak and was surprised at how much extra air flowed through the radiator. When I reinstalled it I put spacers in to increase the gap allowing air to flow in from the side. It improved the cooling but did degrade the a/c on hot days. I guess I am agreeing that moving the a/c up on the roof may make a significant difference.

Good luck as I know how hard getting the cooling right inmodfied vehicles can be.

cheers
AnswerID: 503490

Reply By: Red Tail Black (WA) - Monday, Jan 28, 2013 at 11:50

Monday, Jan 28, 2013 at 11:50
Thanks to all of you for your help and advice. You have all given me some great options. I will start with a few of the cheaper ones and see how she goes this trip and slowly like most of you say work my way through them till I see some improvement. I find the engine fantastic, it only the heating that is letting me down when I am towing that big load.
Cheers Brian
AnswerID: 503503

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