Electric Brakes to wheels on Simplicity tandem axles

Submitted: Tuesday, Feb 12, 2013 at 22:16
ThreadID: 100518 Views:5972 Replies:9 FollowUps:32
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I have been experiencing problems with inefficient braking of my caravan. I have a Simplicity dual axle suspension system fitted. Over the weekend I looked at the electric brake system under the van. I noted the wiring of the electric brakes to the front wheels seemed to be connected; whereas those to the rear wheels appeared not to be [two loose wires are coming from the rear of the hubs; and they are not connected to two loose wires coming from the A frame]. Is this usual; i.e., are electric brakes connected only to the front wheels of a Simplicity tandem axle suspension and not the rear?
P.S. I have approached the manufacturer of the caravan for an answer but no response as yet.
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Reply By: Ross M - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 00:12

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 00:12
G'day Lynton B
If there is two wires not connected to another local two wires, it would seem quite logical they should be connected to each other.

If the two wires originate from a "Y' which goes to each wheel on that rear set, then it would seem only half the brakes are operational at the moment. Could explain the loss of braking.

If all wheels have brakes in their hubs then yes, they should all be connected to the earth and the feed from your brake controller.

If you have lost connection to one wheel on a side or both wheels on one side then that will violently steer the van sideways under braking.

Jack up one wheel at a time and apply the controller, the wheel should not be able to rotate.
Check all four wheels this way so you know when controller is active, the braking is functioning at the wheels. Then you can brake with confidence and not trepidation or anxious uncertainty.

Ross M
AnswerID: 504643

Follow Up By: Member - Lynton B (QLD) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 08:48

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 08:48
Thank you Ross for your response. It seems from all responses that all four wheels should be connected to the electric braking system via the controller. Will get a specialist to check everything out. Regards
Lynton
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FollowupID: 781493

Reply By: The Bantam - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 00:30

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 00:30
Lynton mate I don't know how handy you are, but.......I am yet to see any as delivered trailer electrics that I am happy about.

There is no way someone is going to spend $$$$ on a electric brake axle and no connect it on purpose.

But there are plenty who will be sloppy about how the cables are connected and how well they are protected and secured.

So a little revision my be wise.

If you are handy...or prepared to pay some one who cares and understands......it might be worth getting the whole thing checked out.....quite often the brakes are not properly centred on the axle and not well adjusted....they may work...but not as well as they will when propelry tweaked.

cheers
AnswerID: 504644

Follow Up By: Member - Lynton B (QLD) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 08:51

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 08:51
Hi Bantam. Thank you for your response. It seems all four wheels should be braked. Will get a specialist to check it all out.
Regards
Lynton
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FollowupID: 781494

Reply By: graham B9 - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 06:47

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 06:47
Hi Lyndon,

What you describe does not seem right. There should be a seperate wire from the brake control unit to each brake on each wheel. Not one wire that is doing a loop. The loop gives different power to different wheels. This will cause different wear.
AnswerID: 504648

Follow Up By: Member - Lynton B (QLD) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 09:01

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 09:01
Hi Graham. Thank you for your response. Will get a specialist to check it all out: It seems the electric braking system should be connected to all four wheels.
Regards
Lynton
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FollowupID: 781496

Reply By: Geoff in SA - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 08:10

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 08:10
Hi Lynton

Somewhere in the book of words relating to vans and trailers it states that all wheels must operate on a dual axle van over a certain weight.
However the hand brake may operate on two wheels if >>................. (Not too sure of the wording)

Found this on the net>

Australian design rules require that trailers over 750 GTM must have an effective braking systems. tandem axle trailer or caravans over 2000 kg, specifications are such that, all wheels must have effective operating brakes , trailers and caravans under 2000 kg must have efficient brakes operating on at least two wheels.

Seems the ADRs strike again with stupidity.
Why have 4 wheels and only need 2 to be braked if under 2000 kgs????

Hope it helps

Regards

Geoff
AnswerID: 504653

Follow Up By: Geoff in SA - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 08:14

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 08:14
Found even more


GENERAL POINTS ON ADRs FOR TRAILERS
BRAKING

Trailers up to 750kg Gross Trailer Mass (GTM) - No brakes required.
Trailers with GTM from 750kg to 1999kg - Brakes required on at least two wheels.
"Efficient" override brakes, electric brakes or power-assisted brakes are acceptable.
Trailers with a GTM from 2000kg to 4499kg - Brakes required on all road wheels.
Must be independent brakes in either electric, vacuum or compressed air-assisted, with control via foot and hand controller from the driver's seat, with a breakaway system to automatically apply the trailer brakes fully for at least 15 minutes should be vehicle accidentally disconnect from the towing vehicle.
Trailers with a GTM of 4500kg and over - Require fully ADR-approved axles with "S" Cam Brakes, Load Sharing Suspensions and Compressed Air Brake Operating and Breakaway Kits.


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FollowupID: 781488

Follow Up By: Geoff in SA - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 08:20

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 08:20
and from the NSW RTA Vehicle Standards Information #22



RTA Info #22
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FollowupID: 781490

Follow Up By: Member - Lynton B (QLD) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 08:58

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 08:58
Thanks Geoff for your response. Your response and the contents your relevant follow ups settle it for me. My van is 3000kg GTM and obviously [now] should have all 4 wheels braked via the controller. Shall have the situation rectified by a specialist.
Regards
Lynton
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FollowupID: 781495

Follow Up By: Geoff in SA - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 09:05

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 09:05
Hi again

was the van new???
if so give the manufacturer a serve about his workmanship and duty of care and anything else you can think of as well
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FollowupID: 781497

Follow Up By: Member - Lynton B (QLD) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 09:15

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 09:15
Hi Geoff. Intend to do. Yes, the van was new. Quite a serious oversight. Could have had very serious consequences. May explain why I have not yet heard from the manufacturer.
Lynton
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FollowupID: 781500

Follow Up By: Geoff in SA - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 09:19

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 09:19
sounds like the manufacturer that built my van

I think a lot of these manufacturers have NO QA built into their system at all

I have a few stories relating to my van as well
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FollowupID: 781501

Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 09:24

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 09:24
Further to what Geoff said in FollowUp 2 - the most important document when it comes to building small trailers (up to 3.5 T) is VSB-01. You can also download a PDF version All the other quotes in this thread are state copies/extractions of bits from this.
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FollowupID: 781502

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 10:45

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 10:45
I know it migt sound a little rough......but having brakes on only one axle of two or three is permissable and reasonably common practice.

Personally I'd prefeer brakes on all axles, but apparantly this single braked axle can be effective if it is the front axle in a load sharing suspension, because the weight transfers there under brakes and the rear axle will lock up first in may cases if braked.

Remember....we ar talking light trailers here.....they are without exception cheap nasty devices..and always built to a price point.

Consider that an electric brake axle will probably add $3000 Retail to the cost of a trailer.....if it can be left out they will

cheers
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FollowupID: 781507

Follow Up By: blown4by - Friday, Feb 15, 2013 at 00:15

Friday, Feb 15, 2013 at 00:15
Geoff in SA: The ADRs are rarely stupid. The reason only one axle is required to be braked up to 2000kg GTM is because two wheels can effectively brake 2000kg and brakes on the second axle are therefore not necessary. Yes you can have brakes on all wheels if you so choose and you can have brakes on trailers under 750kg but as someone else stated, these are light vehicles (below 4500kg ATM) and being made to a price point would make an over-braked trailer economically non-competitive
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FollowupID: 781679

Follow Up By: Geoff in SA - Friday, Feb 15, 2013 at 12:46

Friday, Feb 15, 2013 at 12:46
Hi Blown4by

I was in no way saying the ADRs are stupid.
But in some cases they do make you think about who think some are a good idea.
I agree with what you say But if you have 4 wheels why not 4 brakes.
If it was a car and it only weighed would it be OK to just have brakes on say the front wheels only.
Given the number of brake wire issues noted in this post it would make a lot of sense to have all 4 wheels braked if fitted.

Here is another ADR that defies belief.
Take the brake lights that are required to be fitted where the spare is located on the rear door of a vehicle.
Nissan and Tojos.
The ADR says the existing brake and tail light system is not suitable.
These existing light assemblies have some great designs and size built into them. Can be seen for miles. Big, Bright and Bold.

BUT the ADRs say no good and to mount some ridiculous sized silly little red and orange lamp assemblies on the bumper. So low they are almost unable to be seen and cannot be seen from the side at all.

So are the ADRs correct or nonsensical?????

Different stated make different rules for the country roads that are all interconnected.

Think towing connections and electric brake controllers and backup batteries etc..

Regards

Geoff
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FollowupID: 781710

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Friday, Feb 15, 2013 at 14:38

Friday, Feb 15, 2013 at 14:38
There is a very good reason whey we have brakes on all wheels on driven vehicles that has to do with handling and controll,
If a driven vehicle relied on only front brakes, it would understeer in may situations of heavy braking and oversteer in others.....if reliant on rear brakes only it would also oversteer under heavy brakes and the braking would be compromised due to forward weight transfer.

In short driven vehicles would be far far less safe with brakes on only 1 axle.

Trailers only follow and on close grouped axles there is not the consiquence of weight transfer or oversteer there is is a driven vehicle


In heavy vehicles the load is directly related to the number of axles..typically 6 tonnes on a single wheel axle and 9 tonnes on a dual wheel axle.....to have sufficient braking power for the load carried brakes are required on each axle.

On light trailers it is possible to fit brakes that have far more braking power than required to stop the mass capable of being borne by the single axle or the pair of wheels fitted to it will bear.
For example a typical pair of 10" x 2 " electric drums will stop at least 2 tonnes may be 3.......but it is very common to step to dual axles over 1.5 tonnes and lots of 2 tonne trailer have dual axles.

If stepping to tripple axles it would be entirly workable and safe to have brakes on only the front 2 axles for a 3.5 tonne trailer.

Its far from silly.


As for the ADRs and rear wheel carriers.

If you sit down a rear ADR specifications for the various lights and the angles which they are required to be viewed, you will see why it is plain and clear why extra lights are required for fitting a lot of certain spare wheel carriers and bullbars.

There is a very good reason for everything in the ADRs.....but there are plenty out there without the willingness to understand.

If you realy want to know...it helps to actually go an read the ADRs...then read the explanatory statements and other supporting documents

cheers
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FollowupID: 781722

Follow Up By: blown4by - Monday, Feb 25, 2013 at 11:25

Monday, Feb 25, 2013 at 11:25
Thanks Bantam, you are quite correct. Geoffin SA: What Bantam has described re lights, and required by the ADRs, is called geometric visibility. The rear lamps have to be visible from 45 degrees inwards and 80 degrees outwards. This is why when Nissan fit the spare wheel on the right rear barn door of a Patrol they replicate the rear lamps down in the bumper. I agree with your sentiments re the lamp size and position down in the dust and mud etc but it is not the ADR that is at fault. Perhaps it is the manufacturer at fault for fitting the spare wheel in that location obliterating the geometric visibility and being too stingey to fit reasonable size replacement at lamps (and only one reverse lamp) and not using any lateral thinking to come up with a better location. I agree, it is pretty pathetic for one of the worlds largest vehicle manufacturers so what I have done with my Patrol is purchase the original rear lamps and replace the dummy lamps so I now have 5 stop lamps, 4 tail lamps, 4 rear reflectors, 2 rear indicator lamps per side and 2 reverse lamps. The upper lamps may not meet the ADR but in such circumstances the lower lamps will always be visible.
Regarding road rules each jurisdiction has its own rules which has nothing to do with the ADRs.
In respect to your comment: "Think towing connections and electric brake controllers and backup batteries etc.." Trailer couplings and braking are covered by VSB1 which is a national document based on the ADRs so each State should be applying the same rules. Sadly some States do not appear to apply some of the rules though nor do they rigidly audit their inspection stations. This allows some manufacturers to fly beneath the radar much to the inconvenience and often additional cost of caravan and trailer purchasers when compliance officers detect these issues on-road or the owner moves to another State which requires a vehicle examination. Not sure what you mean about how backup batteries differ between States.

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FollowupID: 782431

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Monday, Feb 25, 2013 at 12:18

Monday, Feb 25, 2013 at 12:18
Yeh sorry but all jursidictions are bound by the national acts and standards including the ADRs and "the national Vehicle standatds act".

In the past there was quite some variation in all manner of things transport.......but there has been a very strong national "legeslative harmonisation" campaign going on for quite some time and transport has been identified as an area of national importance.

Fact is, several of the states have been on very dodgy ground with their legeslation not being properly aligned with the national acts and standards.

There may continue to be some "variations for local conditions" and some states that are marginally softer on their enforcement of the national instruments.

One of the first things to be harmonised was matters relating to light trailers and towing...and that was some time ago.

As far as VSB01 is concerned.....it is a summary of legeslation and standards..and is advisory, provided for convienience only and has no legal standing.

As for the back up batteries for break away systems.....the ADR requirements for breakaway systems has been recently revised.
Some people may not be up with the current requirements.

for example .. state of charge and charging indicators are now required where in the past they where not.
I have not looked at the length of time that the break away system must hold for...that may have varied.
People may also be specifying larger batteries, because some of the old systems the pissy little batteries may have only worked to specification when they where brand new...even with a little age they may not have conformed.

cheers
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FollowupID: 782435

Follow Up By: blown4by - Wednesday, Feb 27, 2013 at 23:57

Wednesday, Feb 27, 2013 at 23:57
Bantam, It is clear from your posts that you quite obviously know your subject so I am not going to argue with you. However my information is that VSB1 does now have leglal standing as it is backed by the Motor Vehicle Standards Act 1989 and as you rightly say, it is a summary of the ADRs applicable to light trailers. A few years ago the Federal Minister for Transport Anthony Albanese issued a directive that any manufacturers or importers of light trailers that fail to comply with VSB1 can be fined $60000.00 per non compliance.
I wasn't aware of the requirement to check the charge in the break-away battery but re your question of how long the break-away battery has to keep the barkes applied following a break-away it is 15 minutes.
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FollowupID: 782661

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Thursday, Feb 28, 2013 at 01:58

Thursday, Feb 28, 2013 at 01:58
Mate VSB01 has absolutely no legal standing in its own right, it is neither design rule, standard, legeslation, regulation, nor ministerial directive....it is an advisory document....... and an incomplete summary of the actual legal instruments.

Any prosecutions would be on the basis of the souce legal documents that it summarises.

The information that is contained in VSB01 certainly has legal standing because it is drawn directly from the actual legal instruments and in many cases are verbatum quotes.

It was written so that people would not have to trawl thu a dozen differnent documents to find all the information they needed to do a compliant job.

you will note that in the current version there are many links and references to the other documents.

Don't get me wrong..its a very good and usefull document, and if you are not in compliance with it, you will be breaking the law......but it is not in its self the law.


There are also situations where VSB01 does not have all the information required...that is why it has many links and references in it.

cheers
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FollowupID: 782667

Reply By: Member - Dalb (SA) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 09:26

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 09:26
Hi Lyndon
I bought a new off-road van with the same suspension set-up as yours.
I suggest you may need to do more than simply have the wires connected correctly......

After my first trip on the dirt I found some of the (very thin) wires to my rear brakes had been ripped out - presumably by flying stones. I then noticed that all the brake wiring was very exposed to stone damage, so i took the van to a caravan brake specialist who fixed the wiring and then he placed split plastic tubing over all the wiring and also re-aligned the wiring so that it was less exposed to stone damage eg. ran it behind the axles etc. instead of going from where the wires came out of the chassis direct to the wheels.
Even if you do not go off-road, you can still get stones and other rubbish flicked up even on the tar.

I hope this will be of some help.

Cheers, Dalb
Cheers, Dalb

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Follow Up By: Member - Lynton B (QLD) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 11:20

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 11:20
Hi Dalb
Thanks for your valuable input. Boy! I have had some great advice in responses to my thread. And yours is another. I don't think the wires were disconnected through damage [stones, etc]; but appeared not to be connected in the first place - although the wire connectors are in place on those coming from the A frame. But I will get it all checked out.
Regards
Lynton
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FollowupID: 781516

Reply By: Dust-Devil - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 19:06

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 19:06
Lynton B

I have this suspension on my 2.8t van and had the same problem/s from new.

At one stage I thought some a/hole was deliberately disconnecting the electric brake likes at the wheels. Kept finding the mothers disconected - randomly on all four wheels.

Finally identified the problem as being the electrical connectors supplied and fitted at time of manufacture.

Remedy: (1) removed all OEM connectors and replaced with NARVA connectors.
(2) ensured all wiring cables placed out of the way of stones and/or rocks and used a chit load of cable ties to ensure same.

Haven't had a problem since and te suspension works like a dream as well as the braking.

Regards

DD
AnswerID: 504684

Follow Up By: Member - Lynton B (QLD) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 22:58

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2013 at 22:58
Thank you DD. Your advice re connectors is invaluable. Shall replace all with NARVA connectors and will use cable ties to minimise damage through sticks, stones, etc. Thanks again.
Regards
Lynton
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FollowupID: 781561

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Friday, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:32

Friday, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:32
Good quality connectors, of the correct size for the wire, fitted with a good quality tool, in the correct manner....can take the whole crimp connector thing from an excercise in frustrationand unreliability to a job of aerospace grade reliability.

cheers
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FollowupID: 781699

Reply By: Jefvon - Thursday, Feb 14, 2013 at 12:46

Thursday, Feb 14, 2013 at 12:46
I also have Simplicity suspension on my van, Evernew 3.2t, and all wheels are braked. On one free camp I backed over a low bush and damaged the wiring by pulling the connector off. Personally I would not trust any connector for my electric brakes and when I got home I soldered all wires, added heat shrink then covered the wiring with garden hose which I split and cable tied it all well out of harms way.

If you haven't done anything about it yet ASK PLENTY of questions, particularly like how many have the done and do they have experience with electric caravan brakes. The first place I spoke to said they were experienced but I felt he was snowing me as I was after information not asking to get the job done and he wanted the work. I then decided to have a good look myself and found the issue within a minute. The guy spent several minutes under the van and said he could not see anything obvious. What alerted me to the problem was my Prodigy P3 controller showing abnormal readings on braking.

Just my experience and fix FWIW.
AnswerID: 504728

Follow Up By: Member - Lynton B (QLD) - Thursday, Feb 14, 2013 at 18:40

Thursday, Feb 14, 2013 at 18:40
Thanks Jefron. I now know all 4 wheels should be braked. Another examination today revealed the wires to the rear wheels could have been pulled out of their connectors. Soldering might be a problem for me since, although I have an iron and solder, etc, I have had virtually no experience. Yes and my controller has been giving wildly abnormal readings on braking - similar to your experience. Will investigate a much more robust connection. I note also the suspension rubber stop may hit the wires up against the chassis if I drive over a sufficiently large corrugation/rut. Will need to cable tie all wiring well out of harm's way.
Thanks again
Regards
Lynton
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FollowupID: 781625

Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Friday, Feb 15, 2013 at 00:34

Friday, Feb 15, 2013 at 00:34
Lynton, there is no need to solder the wiring joints on your break wires. In fact it was not long ago that the pundits recommended against it. Just use some screw connectors like these ones.

You may feel you do not have enough wire in the holes to make a good joint. If so, double the wires back on themselves after you have twisted them together.
PeterD
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FollowupID: 781680

Follow Up By: Member - Lynton B (QLD) - Friday, Feb 15, 2013 at 08:51

Friday, Feb 15, 2013 at 08:51
Hi Peter. Checked my electrical repair kit - the one I take on all my caravanning trips. And I have a number of connectors exactly the same as you illustrated!
BTW I checked the readily accessible brake on the left front wheel yesterday.....and it had one of the two wires disconnected. So recently I have been towing with at the most only one wheel braked. No wonder I was having problems coming down the Toowoomba Range!!!!!
Thanks for your advice
Regards
Lynton
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FollowupID: 781687

Follow Up By: GEMAC Solar and Power - Friday, Feb 15, 2013 at 09:25

Friday, Feb 15, 2013 at 09:25
Hi Peter D

the connectors you have shown are not suitable for the thin multistrand cable used in the automotive industry. The reason is the screw will 'cut' into the wire strands as you tighten it. The cut strands then mean less cable to carry the current. And any movement in the cable at the connector will cause more cutting and less pressure on the joint. Less pressure = higher resistance and this = less voltage etc.
the best type of joiner is the one with the screw protector fitted. Its a small flap inside the connector that the screw pushes onto and this flap then secures the cables. I agree however you should always twist the cable ends together before inserting into the connector. Best of all is solder and heatshrink.

regards

Geoff
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FollowupID: 781690

Follow Up By: Jefvon - Friday, Feb 15, 2013 at 09:45

Friday, Feb 15, 2013 at 09:45
They are the connectors that were on my Evernew and all were very poorly installed and was one reason why they ripped out. I am surprised to hear soldering may not be a good idea???? I was always told soldering gives good contact and no issues. Since soldering mine Everything has been fine and we have done a lot of ks since.
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FollowupID: 781693

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Friday, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:27

Friday, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:27
Fellas by far the best and most reliable connector to use here is a good quality crimp connector, of the correct size for the wire and properly terminated.

There is no issue with good quality plugable connectors.

If the wires are going to be pulled on, it is far far better that the plug pulls out than the wire is riped out of where ever it comes from or is stretched for some distance either side of where it breaks.

Screw terminations even those appropriate for light wires and made of materials appropriate for exposure, are not real good in automotive applications because of the vibration.

The BP connector linked, is intended for heavy stranded electrical wires as found in houses, and is neither suited to light stranded flex nor applications where vibration is an issue.
AND because of the shape of the connector and the way they work and the metals used, they have a corrosion problem.

There is no substitute for correctly routing wires, providing sufficient length securing and protecting them properly.

cheers
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FollowupID: 781698

Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Friday, Feb 15, 2013 at 11:32

Friday, Feb 15, 2013 at 11:32
The problem with excellent connections like crimping and soldering is that when the wires get snagged the wires break in the most inappropriate places. If you are using screw connectors the wires will generally part company at the connector. You can then reconnect them whilst you are on the road, how would go about reconnecting when one wire has severed at the magnet?

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FollowupID: 781701

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Friday, Feb 15, 2013 at 12:39

Friday, Feb 15, 2013 at 12:39
Even better if you have good quality push in connectors.....they will pull out with no harm done and can just be plugged back in.

Screw connectors will never be a 100% wire capacity connection, they provide no strain relief, they present an opening for corrosion AND every time they fail you have to cut back to good wire.....which with corrosion may be quite some way.

A squirt of lanox before you crimp and a squirt in the connector and its all good.

cheers
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FollowupID: 781708

Reply By: Lyn W3 - Friday, Feb 15, 2013 at 12:11

Friday, Feb 15, 2013 at 12:11
These wire connectors are used commonly in the USA but I've never seen them here.

Silicon filled for waterproofing

Waterproof connectors

Very simple to use and I've never seen one come undone.
AnswerID: 504806

Follow Up By: Geoff in SA - Friday, Feb 15, 2013 at 12:33

Friday, Feb 15, 2013 at 12:33
Hi Lyn

The connector you describe here is a wire nut.
Very good for connections and have seen many in my work in US produced electrical equipment.
And yes never seen one cone undone.
But for some reaason here in Aus they have not really taken off.
I have not seen the gel filled ones you have shown on the lonk.
I do have a number of Ideal tools manufactured by that company and they have outlasted anything else in my tool box.

regards

Geoff
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FollowupID: 781706

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Monday, Feb 25, 2013 at 12:41

Monday, Feb 25, 2013 at 12:41
Wire nuts have not taken off here because they are considered dodgy as hell.
They've been around for years, we used to get them in car radio install kits back in the 80s.....we threw em in the bin back then

They are "not approved" for 240 volt electrical use.
The Americans may use them but they also allow all sorts of rough and buthcerous things in their electrical system.

I simply don't understand how so much US stuff is allowed into the country with them fitted......but there are all sort of other non complinaces that come with american gear any way.

There are several reasons why they are not good.
1..from a 240v point of view....they can be applied and removed without the use of a tool.

2..they fall of, pull off....if a ya lucky they sometimes stay on well, but very often, not

3..they dont provide adequate clamping pressure....especially if not screwed on real tight.
A properly made crimp joint is "near welded and is a 100% capacity joint....these are not.

4..they are realy prone to corrosion...because the wires are pressed into a cone....the wires at the open end are not compressed and exposed to corrosion.

5. they provide no strain relief what so ever to the wires.

Seriouslsy there are any number of better terminals than these horrible things.....the only thing they are is quick.
They are only marginally better than twisting the wires together and tapeing

please don't use them

cheers
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FollowupID: 782437

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Monday, Feb 25, 2013 at 12:47

Monday, Feb 25, 2013 at 12:47
OH BTW Geoff, if you are not removing them from 240V equipment and replacing them with a compliant terminal, you are in breach of the Australian standards and the terms of your electrical licence.

cheers
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FollowupID: 782438

Reply By: ozjohn0 - Thursday, Feb 28, 2013 at 13:15

Thursday, Feb 28, 2013 at 13:15
Quote from a post above:
"As far as VSB01 is concerned.....it is a summary of legeslation and standards..and is advisory, provided for convienience only and has no legal standing.
As for the back up batteries for break away systems.....the ADR requirements for breakaway systems has been recently revised.
Some people may not be up with the current requirements.
for example .. state of charge and charging indicators are now required where in the past they where not.
I have not looked at the length of time that the break away system must hold for...that may have varied."

In 2009 new regulations were made under the Motor Vehicle Standards Act 1989 to give VSB1 more force under law. These changes have to a certain extent made VSB1 independent of the ADR's.
As far as possible the wording of VSB1 is taken from the requirements of the ADR's. (Ref: Federal Department if Infrastructure & Transport).

State of charge indicators are not a requirment under VSB1, but an addition required only by NSW, and only at the time of registration.
Where a Breakaway system is fitted it must be able to keep the brakes appiled for at least 15 minutes.
Cheers, Ozjohn

AnswerID: 505737

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