Tow vehicle - odd requirements

Submitted: Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 00:46
ThreadID: 101020 Views:3541 Replies:15 FollowUps:42
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Hi all, Hope you can help.
I'm looking for tow vehicle that meets to following requirements.
Tow capacity of 3500kg,
Automatic transmission,
NO airbags (SRS type),
4 wheel drive,
preferably with a diesel and
I don't mind if it's a wagon or cab chassis.
The first four items are set in stone. I understand that an older vehicle will have high Kms but I'm prepared to recondition/rebuild/replace any parts that are likely to need it.
I know this is an unusual collection of requirements, but I have a disability and need these features in the name of safety.
Can anyone shed any light on what vehicle(s) are avaliable with those specifications.
If there's not one factory made, is there one that can be modified to match?
Again, I hope someone can help me.
Brett.
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Reply By: Dust-Devil - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 01:02

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 01:02
Toyota TTD 200 Series
AnswerID: 506538

Follow Up By: TOAB - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 01:48

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 01:48
The 200 series have airbags though, don't they?
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Follow Up By: Roughasguts - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 02:15

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 02:15
You can remove Airbags can't you! .... put them back in when you sell!

Cheers.
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Follow Up By: Thinkin - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 04:25

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 04:25
Wouldn't be legal, would it?
Alpero.
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Follow Up By: TOAB - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 16:44

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 16:44
Highly illegal - massive fines if caught.
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Reply By: Thinkin - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 04:17

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 04:17
hi, Ford Ranger 4x4 models, ute c/c, xlt super pick-up, double cab c/c, double cab pick up can be optioned with auto and 3500kg towing if optioned with genuine ford towing pack.
So their brochure say's.
New model holden Colarado utes, double cab can come up with your requirements.
Alpero.
AnswerID: 506540

Follow Up By: Thinkin - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 04:22

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 04:22
Cancel that suggestion, just woke up to NO srs airbags.
Alpero
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Reply By: bluefella - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 07:03

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 07:03
G'ay Brett
A toyota land cruiser troop carrier or cab chassis with the 1HDFTE motor, around 2003 although they are a manual, a auto gearbox conversion has been done before.
AnswerID: 506541

Follow Up By: Member - Wamuranman - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 07:45

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 07:45
Yes I agree with Blue, the earlier model Toyotas cab chassis or troopcarrier did not have airbags.
The conversion to auto is not a big deal ...this company specialises in this conversion and have even converted many current model V8 diesel Landcruisers cab chassis/troop carrier to auto:

http://www.automatictransmission.com.au/news.asp

Find a good older model as Blue says and convert to auto is the way to go.

Cheers
1
FollowupID: 783517

Reply By: dindy - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 08:04

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 08:04
Why no airbags?
AnswerID: 506544

Follow Up By: Mark S (cns) - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 11:48

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 11:48
Because of a disability and because it's his choice?
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FollowupID: 783537

Follow Up By: TOAB - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 16:53

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 16:53
I'm missing my right arm. When turning my arm goes over the airbag, should it deploy it can break the forearm bones and drive them into my face.
Australia has strange rules regarding this, in the US I'd have to fit a switch to turn off the airbag on the steering wheel, in Aust airbags connot be turned off EVER!
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Follow Up By: gbc - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 16:59

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 16:59
Sounds like its going to be easier just to find that missing arm mate ;)
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Follow Up By: Ross M - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 19:18

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 19:18
TOAB
The likelyhood of you turning while hitting something which would cause the airbag to deploy is to me quite remote.
I would prefer to have the bag deploy and unless you are directly in the centre of it's activation zone at that particular time it will force you outwards radially from it's centre as it fires.
Either way, I cannot see it as a realistic reason why a vehicle with no airbag has to be sought.


With regard to the 3500kg towing,
None of the modern crop of lighter 4wd are REALLY capable of towing 3500kg with any degree of safety or emergency maneouverability and also suffer from suspension deficiencies when having to cater for additional loaded mass which also has to be controlled under the above situations.

Ross M
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FollowupID: 783597

Follow Up By: SDG - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 21:45

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 21:45
I have limited use of my left hand, and find myself often just using one hand. Never worried me about the airbag. Many people often use one hand, while technically not the safest way to drive, I doubt it has ever worried them either.

From memory mythbusters did an episode on this. Not that I would ever take that show as gospel.
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FollowupID: 783613

Follow Up By: Lyn W3 - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 22:58

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 22:58
Interesting that pick ups in the USA are required to have a key switch on the dash to turn off the passenger side airbag as too many kids were getting killed by the force of the airbag.
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FollowupID: 783618

Follow Up By: garrycol - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 23:22

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 23:22
US cars do not SRS airbags - just airbags. The US airbags are designed to operate where seat belts may not be fitted or be required. Our airbags are a Supplementary Restraint System designed to be used in conjunction with seat belts which are the primary restraint system - the difference between the two is that ours have about half the oomph of the US airbags and activate at a much higher speed.

Garry
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FollowupID: 783619

Follow Up By: TOAB - Tuesday, Mar 12, 2013 at 02:23

Tuesday, Mar 12, 2013 at 02:23
Ross,
I'm looking for a vehicle without airbags by choice, not due to any statutory authority's requirements. I understand that I can legally drive a vehicle with airbags. Its just that I would prefer not to run the risk, slight or not, of driving a vehicle that may cause me significant damage, especially if there is a legal alternative.
Brett
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Tuesday, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:41

Tuesday, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:41
I know a couple of one armed drivers and they have no issues - I think you are looking for issues that are not there.

By all means get a vehicle without an airbag for your self - but what about your passenger - are you prepared to put your passenger at risk?

How would you feel if you did have an accident and an airbag in the passenger side would have protected the passenger but as there was not one - they suffered serious injury or worse.

Your call of course.
1
FollowupID: 783640

Follow Up By: Lyn W3 - Tuesday, Mar 12, 2013 at 16:42

Tuesday, Mar 12, 2013 at 16:42
Think of it this way..............

Someone with two arms is twice as likely to be impaled by broken bones as someone with one arm.

In the event of a catastrophic accident how can you guarantee where your arms are going to be.

For me I'd rather take my chances of survival with airbags than without.
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FollowupID: 783675

Follow Up By: TOAB - Tuesday, Mar 12, 2013 at 17:14

Tuesday, Mar 12, 2013 at 17:14
Garycol,
I'm travelling alone, I'd actually like to remove the passengers seat entirely. However I believe that won't pass muster at Rego - if the vehicle is authorised to carry 5 people there must be 5 seats.

Lyn,
People with two arms are supposed to be using the push-pull method of steering. Learners will fail their driving test if they don't steer that way.

General.
I'm not asking anyone to take risks they don't feel comfortable with. Why are people expecting me to take risks that I feel are not in my best interest? As am amputee I have a first hand (pardon the pun) understanding of what is at stake for me. If I only break my arm, who will feed me, wash me, do other functions of daily living for me? I don't want to spend 6 weeks in a hospital while I'm in plaster. I have decided that in *MY* interests, *I* don't want an airbag. Why do I feel that I must explain my choices to people that will not be affected by my choice?
- Now, if I wanted to tow a 2.5 tonne caravan behind a Hyundai Getz at 110Kmh on the freeway, I could understand it. ;-)
Brett.
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FollowupID: 783678

Follow Up By: SDG - Tuesday, Mar 12, 2013 at 17:42

Tuesday, Mar 12, 2013 at 17:42
Recently told by inspection people, that seats can be taken out, reducing the number of occupants, but you can not add any in. Unless you do all engineers cert etc
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FollowupID: 783679

Follow Up By: SDG - Tuesday, Mar 12, 2013 at 17:43

Tuesday, Mar 12, 2013 at 17:43
Probably can't do front seat though.
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FollowupID: 783680

Follow Up By: TOAB - Tuesday, Mar 12, 2013 at 18:47

Tuesday, Mar 12, 2013 at 18:47
SDG,
I have seen delivery people (newsagents) that have removed their front seats, I don't know if they did it leagally thought.
I'll contact rego, once I've bought a vehicle, and get their answer in writing (I don't trust verbal permission - been caught out before).
Brett
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FollowupID: 783686

Reply By: jacent - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 08:46

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 08:46
80 series gxl diesel? 100 series standard has no air bags but manual transmission, can still find low km ones
AnswerID: 506547

Follow Up By: Member - Andrew L (QLD) - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 10:53

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 10:53
The 105 series standard had 2 airbags fitted from the update model as of October 2012.

The 105 series standard from 1998 till September 2012 was no airbags.

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FollowupID: 783529

Follow Up By: Member - Andrew L (QLD) - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 10:54

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 10:54
oops...2012 should read 2002.
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Follow Up By: member - mazcan - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 11:21

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 11:21
hi andrew L
105 ser lc 1998-2012
would it be rated at 3500kg towing
but maybe an upgrade can be done????????
and i dont get the no airbag thing in the name of safety ?????
but there are still thousands of vehicles on the rd without them including 1 of mine
cheers
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FollowupID: 783531

Follow Up By: member - mazcan - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 11:24

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 11:24
woops me too should read 1998-2002
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FollowupID: 783532

Follow Up By: scandal - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 17:18

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 17:18
Not sure about 1998-2002 105 cruisers tow weight, but, my 2005 HZJ105 cruiser has 3500kg towing capacity, just got to make sure it has the 3500kg towbar fitted
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Follow Up By: jacent - Tuesday, Mar 12, 2013 at 03:11

Tuesday, Mar 12, 2013 at 03:11
I have a 2002 cruiser with no airbags and rated to tow 3500kg...
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FollowupID: 783624

Reply By: Ross M - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 09:17

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 09:17
TOAB
What do you mean you want no airbags in the name of safety?
That thinking is in stark contradiction to the ANCAP intentions.

Ross M
AnswerID: 506548

Follow Up By: TOAB - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 17:04

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 17:04
Ross,
I gave a quick explanation up the page a little.
Many is the time that a safety item is designed for the majority of pepole and doesn't take into account the few that don't fit into their figures.
Government and Safety authorities don't always get it right. But they knew that arms and the steering wheel airbag don't co-exist well, that's why push-pull steering has been declared to be the correct way to drive, so the arms never cross over the airbag.
Brett
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FollowupID: 783579

Reply By: Honky - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 10:17

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 10:17
Is it a good idea to tow at maximum tow weight?
No room for error?

Honky
AnswerID: 506549

Follow Up By: member - mazcan - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 11:29

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 11:29
hi honky
imho no i personelly dont think that is a smart or safe thing to do there should always be a margin between the load and the towing capacity of the vehicle
cheers
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FollowupID: 783533

Follow Up By: Member - John and Val - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 11:55

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 11:55
Hi Honky,

Did OP say he would be towing that weight?

He said he wanted that capacity.

Cheers,

Val
J and V
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
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FollowupID: 783538

Reply By: GEMAC Solar and Power - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 13:06

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 13:06
f250 will do it.

pull fuse to disable airbags.
replace fuse to enable airbags.

regards
geoff
AnswerID: 506561

Follow Up By: member - mazcan - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 13:26

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 13:26
hi geoff
but wont pulling the airbag fuse out
cause the computor the put the vehicle in a limp home or simular restricted unsafe mode ???
cheers
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FollowupID: 783550

Reply By: Subactive - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 15:15

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 15:15
As SUV's move more and more into the commercial market larger towing has taken a backseat. Most larger awd/ 4wd vehicles will tow up to 2,500.
3,500 is a large towing weight. without going industrial you could modify already existing vehicles or go for a massive Ford truck.

Have you made a decision - what did you go with?
AnswerID: 506576

Follow Up By: Subactive - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 15:18

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 15:18
See the attached for basic Towing guide from different cars within the Subaru range: http://subaru.com.au/car-advice/knowing-your-towing-capacity
None for 3,5k or over...

Interesting read.
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FollowupID: 783563

Follow Up By: TOAB - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 17:49

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 17:49
Subby,
I only posted yesterday :-)

I haven't made a decisions as yet, but the pre 2002 Landy 105 standard with an auto conversion is scoring highest so far.
I won't be buying for a year or two, but I needed to know if I was hunting for a real vehicle or a dream.

I've noticed that real 4wds are getting to be hard to find. Most of the current ones (with airbags) can't even have a winch fitted.
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FollowupID: 783585

Reply By: Honky - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 15:50

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 15:50
When did the NSW towing regulation change from the following:-

The laden weight of the trailer shall not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle.

I was always told many years ago that if a combined vehicle and trailer got out of control the the heavest vehicle will take over ie if the trailer was heavier than the towing vehicle, it will decide what the combination is going to do.

Honky
AnswerID: 506585

Follow Up By: garrycol - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 16:11

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 16:11
Many many years ago - manufacturers now specify towing capacities of their vehicles.
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FollowupID: 783571

Follow Up By: TOAB - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 18:13

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 18:13
Honky,
The ratio you're refering to was for unbraked trailers/caravans. If the towed vehicle had brakes, over-ride, vacuum etc the ratio was:
"The laden weight of the towed vehicle mut not exceed 1.5 times the unladen weight of the towing vehicle".

These are actually still in the use for vehicles that do not have a manufacturers maximum tow capacity.
Brett
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FollowupID: 783590

Reply By: toffytrailertrash - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 17:57

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 17:57
Land Rover Discovery 4's have a braked tow weight of 3500kgs.

Cheers

Merv
AnswerID: 506591

Follow Up By: TOAB - Tuesday, Mar 12, 2013 at 18:55

Tuesday, Mar 12, 2013 at 18:55
... And up to 8 airbags :-(

I actually like the Landies - their blinker stalk is on the left side of the steering wheel (just like the Jeep GC - my favorite). One of my licence stipulations.
Brett
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FollowupID: 783688

Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Wednesday, Mar 13, 2013 at 10:06

Wednesday, Mar 13, 2013 at 10:06
Yes but being an english vehicle, you can be assured none of those 8 airbags will ever work.

Joke Joke..

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FollowupID: 783742

Reply By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 20:06

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 20:06
Hi Toab,

To fill your criteria exactly, the last of the 80 series in GXL are sopposed to ba legal to 3.5 tonne tow capacity, or is it 3 tonne. But certainly no airbags as far as I know.

Some 105 series fit the criteria also, but not in the GXL. They had at least one airbag I think.

I think the 70 series would be your best bet up to about 2005 I would think.

Cheers, Bruce.
At home and at ease on a track that I know not and
restless and lost on a track that I know. HL.

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AnswerID: 506594

Follow Up By: TOAB - Tuesday, Mar 12, 2013 at 23:32

Tuesday, Mar 12, 2013 at 23:32
Bruce,
Wikipedia says the 80 series got airbags '95, it looks as if they were standard equipment on the Sahara & the '98 40th Anniversary only.


From Redbook:

Toyota Landcruiser HDJ80R Automatic Diesels. (GXL, 40th Anniversary & Sahara models)


'94 and earlier weren't rated. With a tare of 2135kg they should be legal to tow 3202.5kg. (1.5 X tare)

Between '94 and '98 all but one was rated at 2500kg.


The one? - the '97 40th Anniversary was rated to 3500kg. (I'm wondering if this was a typo??!)


source - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Land_Cruiser#80_Series
source - http://www.redbook.com.au
All tow figures are for braked towing.
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FollowupID: 783725

Follow Up By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Wednesday, Mar 13, 2013 at 19:41

Wednesday, Mar 13, 2013 at 19:41
Hi TOAB,

I had 2 update 80 series cruisers. Both were GXL and both were factory autos.
The first was a 97 GXL 4.5ltr petrol.

The second unit was a May 96 multi valve Turbo diesel in GXL format (HDJ80 with the 1HD FT engine).

Neither unit had an airbag and I have read on other forums, but have not been able to verify it, that vehicles manufactured after Oct. 96 were rated at 3.5 tonne. This could well be wrong. It may be that Wikipedia is correct. Specific information does not appear to be commonly available.

I towed a 2.2 tonne van with both vehicles and both were more than up to the job and had plenty of capability in reserve.

When you get into the 100 series there were not too many models which did not have airbags so your choice there narrows as well.

I doubt that airbags were fitted in the 70 series but trying to find one with an automatic would be a tall order I would think.
I have seen a couple of 70 series with petrol V8s but whether or not they were a factory option or not I cannot say. They may not even have been toyota motors in them, I never got a look under the bonnet, it was just that they sounded so quiet and sweet that I assumed they were Toyota V8s.

There is a wealth of knowledge on Landcruisers on LCOOL url=http://www.lcool.org/]See Here[/url]. Certainly worth investigating if you need more info.

Cheers, Bruce.




At home and at ease on a track that I know not and
restless and lost on a track that I know. HL.

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FollowupID: 783775

Reply By: SDG - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 21:57

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 21:57
Last I heard modifications to allow disabled drivers to drive was allowed. If given the ok by the RTA, you should be allowed to somehow disconnect the drivers airbag. They will tell you who to see, and what to do. Have you actually spoken to the disabled section of the RTA?
AnswerID: 506603

Follow Up By: TOAB - Tuesday, Mar 12, 2013 at 01:25

Tuesday, Mar 12, 2013 at 01:25
I've been in contact with the ACT Rego and recieved no joy.
They just said airbags save lives and that I can't guarantee that other people won't drive my vehicle with them turned off.
I've not seen a lot of common sense from them over the years.
Brett
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FollowupID: 783622

Follow Up By: SDG - Tuesday, Mar 12, 2013 at 08:13

Tuesday, Mar 12, 2013 at 08:13
Thats a bit stupid from them. What about all the other mods one can get done for people. Are other people going to drive those cars?
I know what you mean by no common sense with them.
By law i'm only allowed to drive vehicles with dual circuit braking system. This is because when I first got my licence many years ago it was noticed that I virtually had no use of my left leg.
Stupid rule. I have never put my left foot on the brake yet. It goes on the clutch.
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FollowupID: 783625

Reply By: auzinomad - Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 21:57

Monday, Mar 11, 2013 at 21:57
Maybe this isn't good advise but below the steering column there will be a plug for the steering airbag and other accessories.
If you disconnect the yellow - white wire it will disable the airbag trigger function.

But as you already know this I'm not telling you anything new, just reminding you that there is a standard colour coding for the wiring of the airbags and some times that wire has been known to get broken.

Funny that aint it.


Me
AnswerID: 506604

Follow Up By: TOAB - Tuesday, Mar 12, 2013 at 09:31

Tuesday, Mar 12, 2013 at 09:31
Mike Echo,
But how do you explain the low ohm resistor you added to fool the computer into believing the airbag is still attached and therefore doesn't need to drop into limp home mode?
Last I heard the fine was around $10 grand...... makes a hell of a hole in your travel funds. ;-)
Brett
0
FollowupID: 783631

Follow Up By: auzinomad - Tuesday, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:59

Tuesday, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:59
As I said , it's the airbag trigger wire.

The airbag is still fitted but just won't fire.

If you hit something hard enough to trigger it I imagine you'll be immobile or in limp home mode any way.
0
FollowupID: 783644

Reply By: TOAB - Friday, Mar 15, 2013 at 01:42

Friday, Mar 15, 2013 at 01:42
Thank you to *all* that replied.
You've given me plenty of food for thought.

The idea of a transmission swap hadn't occurred to me previously.

After looking around the web, it looks like a Landcruiser 75 or even an old Land Rover 110 cab/chassis could fit the bill just nicely.

I must apologise if I've upset anyone with my little grump in the middle, I just found that I was spending too much time having to justify my choices.

I'll keep perusing the posts on the forum and help where I can, hopefully I'll get to meet some of you on the road in a couple of years. :-)

Keep the greasy side down,
Brett
AnswerID: 506814

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