Consumer Issues..

Submitted: Friday, Mar 22, 2013 at 08:57
ThreadID: 101235 Views:3105 Replies:3 FollowUps:48
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I watched the new consumer show on ABC tv last night..Checkout. They had a go
at Mazda for stating your new car warranty is at risk if you dont have the 6 six
month services at around $300 ea. This is, of course, rubbish, & even Mazda admit
it in the very fine print.
Another item of interest was their list of overpriced ancilliaries associated with some
consumer items, such as printing ink & razor blades. Ink is dearer than perfume...
if you buy the recomended cartridge. I overcame that by sourcing online..$80 set
of Canon inks for $16 (two sets)..& works fine. Razor blades for the modern razor
are over $5 ea....not if you go online...just sourced for about $1.50 ea. These are Oz
based resellers.
Another interesting thing was that some petfood..labelled as Fish & Rice, for example,
contains no fish or rice in the list of ingredients. What a shambolic travesty our
labelling laws are....here endeth the lesson..:)))).......oldbaz.
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Reply By: olcoolone - Friday, Mar 22, 2013 at 10:59

Friday, Mar 22, 2013 at 10:59
Great show.... the first 5 minutes I thought it was going to be a flop, at the end I did enjoy it.

It does raise a lot of questions on car servicing and their many excuses why you should do it.

Example...... oil companies tell you (passenger vehicle owners) why you should change your oil frequently..... on the other hand they tell heavy vehicle operators why they don't need to change there oil frequently.... go figure.

People have been conditioned to act and respond a certain way and this is why so many fall into a trap...... look at people with diesel engines, it's been hammered into them to change there oil every 5000k or 3 months and they still think they are doing the right thing AND they still do it with the new CRD engines....why?

Is an oil valued at $5 per liter any better that an oil at $15 per liter..... and are you going to see a benefit..... I doubt it!

Putting Nitrogen in passenger vehicle tyres...... why

Having a wheel alignment every 12 months.

Tyre rotations every 10k?

Using fuel treatment and oil additives.

Long life coolants vs standard coolants....

Plasma winch rope...... less durable than steel cable, 10 X more expensive and it gives you a 21Kg weight saving...... all for an extra $500.

Cmon...... how many have bought something from a magazine because they said it was good..... and you paid a premium for it.

Most things we buy have a two part structure, a "feel good" part and a "actually do something" part...... most of the time the "feel good" part makes up most of the product and cost.






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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 19:32

Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 19:32
I'm running 80% nitrogen in my tyres. Sometimes Caltex, other times Shell, rarely BP. Can't notice much difference between brands but it works a treat.
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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 22:20

Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 22:20
I use an improved mix. 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, 0.9% argon and 0.1% other stuff. It is really good.

Like you, Bazooka, I can't notice much difference between brands, though at my local Shell station it is often in short supply, while over the road at Caltex it is always available.

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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 00:39

Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 00:39
The whole nitrogen thing is a crock....if you are fussy though.....filling your tyres with good clean dry air could make a difference.....If its clean enough to spray paint with it should be dry enough.

The oil thing is gob smacking.....look at all of the major brands...they will try and sell retail buyers all sorts of funky oils in fancy retail packages, saying how wonderfull and marvelous they are and at high prices.

Put many of them side by side and compare the oil specs, with the same companie's standard diesel spec, mixed fleet oil.....that can be purchased very economicaly in 20 litre drums...and the diesel spec oil will piss all over the far more expensive oils from the same oil company.

There are soo many things that they are having a lend of us on.

cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 09:21

Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 09:21
"The whole nitrogen thing is a crock ...."

Maybe not, Bantam. Tyres on large aircraft are inflated with nitrogen.

"There are soo many things that they are having a lend of us on."

Including

"I'm running 80% nitrogen in my tyres. " and
"I use an improved mix. 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, 0.9% argon and 0.1% other stuff."

Both are approximations of the air we breaathe ....

:-)
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 10:58

Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 10:58
On pasenger an commercial tyres inflating with bottled nitrogen is a crock and a rip.
It may be of some benifit in high end motor racing, where every little thing counts.
But I doubt very much that very many people in the lower classes bother.

and it may be of some benifit in aviation, but in our pasenger cars we do not have tyres hitting the ground at over a 100mph after being at high altitude.
Again I doubt that very many bother in light aircraft.

And yes I am well aware that the air we breath is about 80% nitrogen.....I did go to school at a time when they taught children basic facts.


Apart from the fact....think about the typical tyre fitting process.........even using bottled nitrogen to inflate the tyre.......unless you inflated and purged the tyre and inflated again....ya not going to get a particularly pure mix of nitrogen anyway.

cheers
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Reply By: Member - Mfewster(SA) - Friday, Mar 22, 2013 at 15:42

Friday, Mar 22, 2013 at 15:42
All of which is why we need to keep an independent and well financed ABC.
Watch the pressure build on the ABC from the Murdoch Press and their associated companies after the next Fed election.
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Follow Up By: Member - Kevin S (QLD) - Friday, Mar 22, 2013 at 21:17

Friday, Mar 22, 2013 at 21:17
Oh? When did the ABC become independent of the current ALP government and The Greens?
Kevin
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Friday, Mar 22, 2013 at 23:33

Friday, Mar 22, 2013 at 23:33
Ha. ABC independent? They're as dependent as it gets.
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Follow Up By: Member - Mfewster(SA) - Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 09:49

Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 09:49
The ABC is dependent on the Government of the day to that extent that all funding comes form the government. They have a charter and board however that keeps them objective and accountable. Have you ever listened to "On the Right"? This ABC program gives a voice specifically to the Right. "Media Watch" regularly points the finger at it's own ABC programs/staff it it thinks they have strayed from objectivity. Example, the recent carpeting of their IT staffer when there were concerns that he had gone from giving facts to becoming an advocate for the NBN.
The Murdoch Press (electronic media as well as print) simply has no accountability. When is the last time you remember them saying they got something wrong (apart from where they are taken to court by individuals argue they have been libelled) There is no accountability at all on matters of factual accuracy and you never see retractions published. The Finkelstein report showed this over and over. And this was never covered in the Murdoch reporting. What we got was cries for "Free Speech" from the company that is doing its very best to internationally monopolize media outlets. We don't have "Free Speech" when we have massive control of the media and that company is unaccountable.
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 09:56

Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 09:56
A load of my ar$e.

The whole world, apart from you, it seems, know that it's a mouthpiece for the labour party. Always has been and always will be.
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 10:13

Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 10:13
.....and the Murdoch press, being a private entity can report as it likes and is obligated to neither left nor right, any more than a restaurant is obliged to produce, seafood, vegetarian, Chinese or alien. The Murdoch press blows whichever way the wind blows, which can be, and is any way that suits it's purpose which includes any party, any time. The ABC is perennial gravy train and Labour.
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 20:22

Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 20:22
The "whole world" apparently doesn't include the majority of Australians Steve because year after year about three quarters of those surveyed by Newspoll say they think the ABC is even-handed. This supports what every enquiry into the organisation has found - that there is no evidence of systemic bias in the ABC, despite claims to the contrary by both the left and right. But hey if you have evidence for your obviously biased opinion I'm sure the ABC Board would love to hear it because essentially you're suggesting they are incompetent and are not following their charter. It will come as a huge surprise to you no doubt but the split of ABC ex-staffers who have become involved in politics is almost precisely 50/50 conservative/Labor.
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 21:10

Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 21:10
It would come as a big surprise if true - as for the ever-reliable poll, where was it taken? Outside the teacher's union?

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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 22:04

Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 22:04
I can see it's painful for you Steve but if you remove the patch and very carefully prise your left eyelid open you'll find all the details of the regular and reputable surveys on the ABC website. Google can help with the other facts regarding enquiries into ABC "bias" and lists of reporters who have entered politics, and it can also help you with the names and roles of conservatives appointed to the board and as ABC chairmen over the years. Apart from ABC journalists and teachers anyone else you'd like to have a go at for not sharing your politics?
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Follow Up By: Member - Kevin S (QLD) - Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 22:10

Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 22:10
I would be surprised if 75% of the Australian public were sufficiently familiar with ABC political programs to express an informed opinion. A great number of Australians are children so the best that you can claim is 75% of respondents. If we don't know who the respondents are then the information is worthless. But I would love to see the list of ex-ABC staffers and the party for who they stood over, say, the last 10 years. Is there a link to a list Bazooka? And I certainly doubt that the ABC are even handed in employing past political staffers and politicians.
Cheers,
Kevin
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 22:15

Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 22:15
The ABC are not painful for me mate - I don't watch it. The labour party sure are though, just as they are for 90% of Australians as I'm sure you'll see in the coming months when they cop a monumental arse-kicking.

"Have a look at the ABC website and that will tell you how even handed they are"........that'll do me. Brilliant. You win, hands down.

LOL

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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 22:47

Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 22:47
I hope, Steve, that you don't tune to ABC local radio for its community service announcements in times of high risk from natural events such as bushfires and flood. You know, the life-saving stuff that the commercials don't broadcast because there's no money in it for them.

You'd be listening to pranks like hoax calls to hospitals and to 12 year old girls strapped to a lie detector being asked about their sex lives. And to such responsible comment as discussion about the Prime Minister's gender and appearance, the suggestion that the should be sewn into a sugar bag and drowned and that her father died of shame over her performance. Really good, informative, appropriate and unbiased stuff expected of an alternative to the ABC.

You wouldn't want to be seen as a hypocrite, would you?

Cheers :-)

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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 22:50

Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 22:50
There's no real need for surprise, and I'm not claiming anything Kevin - simply reporting the facts, to which you also have access though the wonders of the internet. I find knowledge and information is far more useful than uninformed opinion so instead of claiming the surveys are worthless I suggest you read the detailed responses for yourself, as well as how the surveys are conducted, and their reliability.

I'm sure you can research it yourself but here is one list relating to where past ABC reporters have gone. You can add one more to the conservative side that I'm aware of - Kendall Jackson.


You can doubt all you like about ABC employment practices - the simple reality is that the ABC is a diverse and professional organisation with a board which takes it's charter seriously. It's not perfect but it's light years ahead of any other media organisation in this country, warts and all.
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 23:07

Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 23:07
It goes without saying that you don't watch or listen to the ABC Steve althoiugh others might question how you "know" it is an arm of the Labor Party. Your quote has no relation to anything I wrote or suggested - I simply invited you to look at some independent survey results which are made publicly available by the ABC on their website. Hardly surprising considering their subject and content. Better to light one candle than to curse the darkness.
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Follow Up By: Member - Mfewster(SA) - Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 23:07

Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 23:07
Let me get this straight Steve. You acknowledge that the Murdoch Press is a business and you believe it should therefore be free to say whatever it wishes and you see no problems as it moves to monopolize media outlets and you prefer to trust them for your view on what is happening in the world? You don't see any problems with this?
My Grandfather was a WW1 veteran who fought in France. One of my earliest memories of him was his insistence that each morning he stayed with us that we should sit and read, then discuss, what he referred to as "The Leading Article". (I was about 8). He would tell me to read all newspapers but always to read their"Leading Article" because then you could understand their position when you rad their account of the news. (I'm not sure, but I think he was implying that everyone should have looked more carefully the news coverage that encouraged us into WW1)
One of the great tragedies of the Murdoch Press is that under Rupert (not his Dad), the lines between ethical journalism and opinion have become hopelessly blurred. And they never publish retractions.
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 08:54

Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 08:54
Frankie: There's me thinking it was the other way around and it was the commercials that did all the good community work. I doubt there's a commercial station that isn't the leading light whe4n it comes to raising money or awareness where needed........and all from their own resources, y'know, standing on their own two feet and not relying on the drip feed, no, "make that constant flow" from the good old gravy train that is our money. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Gee mate, you sound like Normie Rowe. My grandfather fought in the Boer war and WWI and I had an uncle killed in WWII. A lot of us did. You won't any argument from me regarding Murdoch. You don't like his work here? You want to see the damage he's done in the UK and to a lesser degree the US. I'm merely defending his right to lean right or left, nothing more. Ethics"? Not much of that around anywhere in the media and certainly not politics, least of all Juliar and her wrecking crew. The party that used to stand up for the battler is now reduced to looking after No 1 and all they employ and they're not even doing that these days. I voted them in in 07 but realise my mistake and it'll be a long time before I make the same one again - so when you refer to "my politics" you don't know the half of it. The vast majority know they're all in it to feather their own nests, it's just that this lot have taken it to new levels and left us to cope with the damage.
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Follow Up By: Member - Kevin S (QLD) - Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 09:47

Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 09:47
Frank P: A bit condescending, don’t you think? Of course Steve has a right to watch and listen to the ABC. He helps pay for it. At least with emergency warnings he is listening to fact rather than opinion.

Bazooka: You are kidding, aren’t you? Providing an article from “Crikey” as proof of the ABC’s impartiality? They are thorns from the same rose bush.

Mfewster: Demonisation of Rupert Murdoch by “the left” is a relatively new phenomenon. You must remember, about 6 years ago, Kevin Rudd going to New York to gain Murdoch’s approval for his tilt at becoming Australian Prime Minister and how cock-a-hoop ALP folk and many of their supporters were when he clearly gained that approval. The ALP and to a certain degree The Greens got much support from Murdoch news papers during the 2007 Federal Election. It was only when The Australian started to place Bob Brown under scrutiny for his contribution to decisions being made by the Gillard government that poor Rupert started to sprout horns. Brown denounced him, called for media controls and Brown and Gillard supporters have been singing from the same song sheet ever since. And Mfewster, you seem to be singing the same song.

Steve M1: I think we are wasting our time.

Cheers,
Kevin
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 11:39

Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 11:39
No I'm not kidding Kevin - I obviously wasn't using Crikey to show the ABC's impartiality, merely the list you were seeking but apparently too lazy to find yourself. You won't find such things in mainstream media because they actually have no interest in balance, or rationality for that matter - they want to feed your prejudices and biases and by the look of your responses they have you well and truly by the short and curlies.

The most disappointing thing about the responses from you and your brother in arms Steve on this thread is that clearly you both know stuff all about the ABC, its multi award winning staff, its management, its standing in and importance to the community, its fundamental importance to democracy in this country, or the many enquiries into it which have invariably shown that no systemic bias exists - and yet you are prepared to denigrate the organisation, its leadership and its workers. Most rational adults would say that is an uninformed and uneducated approach. Time to do some research of your own while keeping an open mind. You could start with the composition of the ABC Board over the last 15 years, and the comments of it's various chairmen during that period. Perspective and a "sense of proportion" are always useful when forming an opinion.
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 11:57

Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 11:57
This whole idea of political bias is the same ever swirling crock that has been around since radio broadcasting began with the ABC in this country.

The die hard, one eyed liberals have had two constants...the desire to "crush the unions" and subjugate the working classes for their own benefit and the claim that the ABC is Communist/ALP biased.

Neither of these views are shared by moderate and informed liberals.

The first showed its self recently with Howards "work choices", which resulted in the Rudd Labour land slide victory.

As for the claims of Communist/ALP bias.....get into a political discussion with any one eyed liberal and this crock will come up.

Its not even an original idea, anywhere in the world where there is a functioning democracy with a freely operating government funded media.....the rich man's side of polotics, call them liberal, conservative, nationalist or republican...have been making the same sort of claims of bias as a matter or routine and normal rethoric for a very long time.

The truth is politicians from all sides of polotics have at one time or another claimed bias on behalf of the ABC when it reported rediculous acts and statements from their party members and called them to account.


As it stands there is a diverse range of political background and opinion within the ABC.

However the ABC staff would have to be some of the most professional you will find.....they are expected to persue the issues regardless of their own opinion....and this polocy is in writing in their contracts.

If you had been paying attention recently, there has been some very interesting discussion about the control the ABC contracts and polocy has over employees expressing private opinion on social media.

ABC employees with an sort of public profile are explicitly forbidden from expressing personal opinion.

In fact many journilists who have been known to have specific political views....have given both sides of polotics a good run for their money at one time or another.

These people are called to account to a pretty strict standard of journalism.

Unlike certain identities in the commercial media who make their living by expressing very very biased and one eyed opinion, and have in fact been investigated and prosecuted for prostituting their opinon for cash.

As for this whole thing stired up by the British tabloid press.......the British tabloid press have been morally bankrupt since the printing press was invented........we have never had that sort of extreem conduct in any sector of the Australian media..and any claims that we have and the whole Australian media investigation is a political beat up.

cheers
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 12:20

Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 12:20
"As for this whole thing stired up by the British tabloid press.......the British tabloid press have been morally bankrupt since the printing press was invented........we have never had that sort of extreem conduct in any sector of the Australian media..and any claims that we have and the whole Australian media investigation is a political beat up"


Informed as ever. Not. The British tabloid press have been morally bankrupt since Rupey was allowed to take over and turn every existing Newspaper he could get his hands on, into a comic. Then there was his masterpiece the Sun. This is the guy who invented the page 3 girl which has Australian journos on their high horses sneering at, totally overlooking a governmental control in Oz that would make Pravda blush. We have never had that sort of "extreem" conduct in any sector of Australian media because it has a Xenophobic law that prohibits any more than 11% of any Australian media being owned by foreign nationals. We don't want any of those nasty foreigners upsetting the propagandist applecart do we? Britain, to it's own cost, has allowed Conrad Black, Robert Maxwell and our beloved Rupey in, without any citizenship constraints, in to do their worst. Some of their papers as a result are absolute tat but at least you get some honest and self criticism you rarely see here. I have worked in the industry in both countries.
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 12:25

Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 12:25
Just to remind: Rupey has finally had his arse firmly kicked in the UK whilst Juliar is doing her utmost to gag the independent press here, whilst enjoying control of her mates at the ABC.
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Follow Up By: Member - Mfewster(SA) - Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 13:04

Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 13:04
Hello Steve and Kevin
Demonisation of Murdoch? Here's an ex editor of an Australian Murdoch paper warning the public about the way the Murdoch press works and Murdoch's stranglehold on reporting.
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/rupert-still-riding-high-20130323-2gmt2.html

Did you ever hear Rupert's mother going public in taking him to task for the way his papers present news? There has been a significant shift since his father's time. What has changed is not whether or not the paper supports the right, that is fair enough. What has changed is that it is no longer possible to distinguish reporting from opinion in Murdoch media. Plus their refusal to accept accountability. An example. The Murdoch press made much of the "email scandal" that was supposed to show how scientists had cooked the books on Climate Change data. If you only read/watched/listened to the Murdoch press you would never be aware that the Inquiries into the scientists concerned showed that the email publisher had cherry picked the statements and the scientists involved had been exonerated. So
millions and millions around the world still think this was true and continue to publish this as fact on websites etc.
But I'd concede one point. All newspapers are having problems with rapidly falling circulation. The Murdoch answer (and it has been followed by others) has been to create controversy and encourage people to respond. They don't mind to much what they say as long as they get a response. Have a look at all the avenues they give for quick texted/emailed responses. Why? because they count each response as a "hit" and that counts towards the circulation figures that determine their advertising appeal and therefore the charges they can make on what is their main source of income.
Re my comment on my Grandfather, my purpose was in no way trying to claim some sort of kudos because he was a war veteran, I was telling how at an early age I was encouraged to distinguish opinion from reporting. I suspect, but don't know, that my Grandfather's experience on why his generation went to WW1 was behind this.

Tell us, what are the sources you get your news from?
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 13:26

Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 13:26
I don't know why you're lecturing me re: Murdoch. You are preaching to the converted. All I have said is that he has a right to lean whichever way he pleases although his methods and motivations are questionable to say the least.
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 13:27

Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 13:27
Yes I am well informed as ever.

Mate, Rupert Murdock, is a relativly recent influence on the perverted muck raking tradition of the Brtish tabloid press that goes back to Victoran times.

The tradition of scandal, crudity, obtuse comment, rediculous ideas, incredulous sources AND dishonest & marginally legal journalistic methods was set before Mr Murdock was even born.

These papers where around when Conan-Doyle was writing Sherlock Holmes, serialised in installments.....

The term "gutter press" is a perculularly British term and long predates Rupert's involvement.

Its a peculularly British phenomena and one that would not be tolerated in most civilsed countries......in fact out side of Britan those sorts news papers simply do not sell in the volume to make them viable.

As for people claiming that ANY sort of legeslation or control in this country is comparable to what is experienced in eastern and northern european communist and post communist countries is both rediculous and very disrecpectfull to those journalists in those countries who have been imprisoned, killed and tortured because of their Journalistic work.

Steve mate
I don't know what you did in the industry in two countries.....but you fail to present a consistent and logical argument.

All I read from you on the matter is the same old recycled piss and vinegar and very little substance.

cheers


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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 13:32

Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 13:32
Actually.......just to put the cat among the pidgeons......it can easily be argued that the british tabloid press that has corrupetd Murdock and the world wide media company he presides over.

cheers
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 13:49

Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 13:49
For the umpteenth time, unlike some on here, I have no political axe to grind with Murdoch because he has no specific leanings other than that which suits him at any given time. I have merely defended Murdoch's right to lean whichever way he chooses in a democracy with a shackled media. You are confusing yourself that because I am not pushing any political barrow with Murdoch into being inconsistent. The fact that he chooses not to $hit on his own doorstep, you manage to twist into him actually being a great bloke somehow corrupted by the British readership.

A clue mate: Pravda wouldn't allow it here.


"......it can easily be argued that the british tabloid press that has corrupetd Murdock and the world wide media company he presides over"

if you're a crackpot or Xenophobe, yep. You are a bit excitable aren't you? Get a grip.



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Follow Up By: Member - Kevin S (QLD) - Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 14:17

Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 14:17
Mfewster, the link that you posted is to an article by an ex-editor of The Age and Sunday Age. Murdoch has never owned The Age. This article is from an editor who competed with Murdoch newspapers, not worked for them. Noted in the interest of accuracy.
Cheers,
Kevin
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Follow Up By: Member - Mfewster(SA) - Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 14:22

Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 14:22
Steve I find your statements contradictory.
In what way was the Media legislation here different to in the UK? I can see no evidence of "gagging" (despite the hysteria whipped up by Murdoch (yet you say you don'e believe/trust Murdoch? There were two aspects to the legislation, none of them had anything to do with "gagging". Where information reported a "news" was shown to be factually incorrect, the publisher could be required to make a statement correcting this. The problem with that is..... This is where I get particularly concerned about the Murdoch media now blurring opinion (where it is fine to have whatever views you like) and reporting. This distinction is the essence of ethical journalism.
Mind you, I sure wont defend the way Conroy went about introducing the legislation and tried to ram through something that deserved serious national debate before legislation was developed.
I'd agree on the notorious history of the Brit tabloid press, but our boy sure took to it like a duck to water and went on to develop new pages in the tradition. . But it isn't all roses here. You need to read the Finkelstein report, but if you don't follow the ABC, how could you have known of it?
So I still want to know, if you dont get news from the ABC and you don't get it from Murdoch, what sources do you use for your information on the world and current affairs?
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Follow Up By: Member - Mfewster(SA) - Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 14:35

Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 14:35
Kevin, prompted by your message I rechecked. It is as I remembered. Guthrie was the Editor of the Heralld Sun in Melbourne, Australia's largest circulation Murdoch paper. As far as I know he never worked for the Age. If you Google for him you will find several accounts of his career that will confirm this and my original statement. When he talks about Murdoch, he is in a good position to know.
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Follow Up By: Member - Kevin S (QLD) - Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 15:47

Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 15:47
Mfewster, I simply repeated information from the publishers note at the foot of the article to which your link lead. Are you telling me that he was never editor of the Age? I don't really care. I just thought it a little strange that the note at the foot of the article by Guthrie to which you drew my attention seemed to be contradicting what you claimed.
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 15:56

Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 15:56
Conroy?

One minute you're critical of Murdoch and the next hailing him as "our boy" You're embarrassing yourself because I am not at all proud of Murdoch's Australian connections. Because he was born here he gets your unreserved support when it suits your childish argument. You'll be saying the backpackers corrupted Ivan Milat next.

Ever heard of Reuters or the internet?

Have a lie down mate.
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 16:08

Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 16:08
The sooner Abbott sells the ABC and uses the cash from the sale and the ongoing funding savings to repay Labors massive debt the better off all Australians will be.

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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 16:18

Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 16:18
Ah the irony. Mike's grandfather would be having a good chuckle if he was with us. It's a simple job to confirm Guthrie's history and bona fides for yourself Kevin.
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Follow Up By: Member - Kevin S (QLD) - Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 18:28

Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 18:28
Thanks Bazooka for prompting me to investigate Bruce Guthrie. I am now reminded that he was sacked by Murdoch, took legal action and won, wrote a book to tell his side of the story and then went to work for Fairfax. I will leave others to judge his impartiality, or lack there of, in things Murdoch.
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 19:25

Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 19:25
You're on the right track now Kevin. Guthrie was actually an editor at Fairfax before being recruited by News Ltd. Next you could try reading his book, or perhaps reading about the ABC.
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Follow Up By: Member - Kevin S (QLD) - Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 20:26

Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 20:26
Don't get excited Bazooka. I'm not about to become a "true believer".
I have established to my satisfaction that Guthrie could have an axe to grind with Murdoch so I don't intend to read his book or read books about the ABC. You see, Bazooka, I have been in the work force for 58 years and am still in it on a part time basis. For most of that time I have held management responsibility, quite senior at times. During that time I have watched and listened to countless hours of ABC programs. That's I know that they have a bias to the left. From my point of view.

Now again I say don't get excited. You and I clearly come from different backgrounds. From where you see the ABC they are clearly right down the centre. And equally clearly that is important to you or you would not have put the effort that you have into defending the reputation of the ABC.

But I have made my judgement and no argument that you or others have put forward has changed it. So how about we both stop wasting each others time. We see things differently. What I don't understand is why you so passionately want us all to agree with you. I see in that shades of the media legislation recently abandoned by the Gillard government.

Over and out!

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Follow Up By: Member - Mfewster(SA) - Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 23:07

Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 23:07
Apologies Keviin S. I'll split that one with you. Having checked further, Guthrie was indeed Editor of the Age before he became Editor of the Sun Herald. So we were both right and wrong, he has worked for both. As far as I can tell now he isn't directly employed by Fairfax but they do publish the occasional article by him.
Reading exerpts from his book however makes pretty clear the close links between newspapers and the Liberal Party. I'd be inclined to believe these or I suspect he would have been sued. Similarly for his observations on Rupert.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 23:16

Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 23:16
Are the Moderators on holidays?
How is any if this relevant to this forum?
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Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Monday, Mar 25, 2013 at 00:14

Monday, Mar 25, 2013 at 00:14
Good place to take this sort of stuff......

http://www.politicalstew.com/bb/viewforum.php?f=1

word of warning though ..... PS will make this place look like Play School
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Reply By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 04:55

Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 04:55
Hi Oldbaz,
The point they were making on Checkout re Mazda was that Mazda emphasized 6 monthly servicing "or you voided warranty" in about 4 places using several parragraphs in each instance and somewhere in the middle of the owners manual devoted half a parragraph saying not so, leaving the reader somewhat confused but leaning heavily toward the 6 monthly servicing idea. As Checkout suggested, "somewhat misleading".

Mazda said "Not so".

And we have all found printers wanting. Some brands I refuse to use, and over the years I have tried them all and will buy only one brand now.

Regards the ABC, Auntie ABC has in no small way contributed to the uplifting of the Australian awareness in all things from science to other places around the world and evironmental issues like no other TV station in this country.

It pioneerd the screening of many shows now seen regularly on the commercial stations such as David Attenboroughs various series to mention only one example.

Imagine what sort of rubbish would be screened on the commercial stations with out the ABC or SBS setting some base line standards.

Old Frank Packer was quoted as saying "No one ever went broke under estimating the intelligence of the average reader", of his newspapers anyway, well thanks to the likes of the ABC and SBS those days are largely gone.

ABC and to a lesser extent SBS gets my vote any day.

Cheers, Bruce.

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Follow Up By: Member - Paul B (WA) - Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 08:49

Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 08:49
Have no drama with the ABC being the spearhead for getting interesting shows on TV, but only wish it was not so hugely biased against the mainstream political views of middle Australia. And especially against the interests of Australian business. It's hard enough to run a business and employ people as it is without having the ABC around your neck as well.

It's completely uncritical reporting of all the lies of green extremists would surely have to put it in some considerable danger of being closed down when a future government can no longer abide the reportage. It used to be my primary source of news and unbiased information, but now I would have 3 or 4 more preferred sources. Having gone from watching or hearing the ABC news several time a day, I'd now be lucky to hear it several times a fortnight.

I did enjoy Checkout! though.
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Follow Up By: roger ramjet - Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 09:33

Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 09:33
ABC bias? IYHO

Confirmation bias:

http://www.kingstribune.com/index.php/magazines/january-2013/item/1689-abc-bias

http://www.theage.com.au/business/study-finds-abc-bias-leans-towards-coalition-20090902-f8gm.html

Checkout was plainly bias against...oh let me see, ripoff products...how 'anti-business' is that !?? Geez, the cheek of that ABC crowd to have a go at simple honest, straightforward business practices.. :-)

cheers
Ramjet
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 10:23

Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 10:23
Perhaps they should have a go at simple, straightforward policy practices.

Let's face it, the only people who condone and incredibly, even support this toxic shower are on the govt. gravy train, with the rest of us in the real world, outside the mining industry, hanging on by our fingertips or going backwards.
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Follow Up By: Member - Paul B (WA) - Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 11:47

Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 at 11:47
Fair enough Ramjet, based on my slightly clumsy post. What I didn't mean is that businesses should be allowed to get away with rip-offs (hey, I'm a consumer too), but that my objection to the ABC was for the constant viewed promulgated by the ABC that all businesses are rip-off merchants and that all profit is theft. Profit is what pays for everything. Without profit nothing works.

I think psychologists call it cognitive dissonance - where people's words and actions are directly counter to their own needs. The ABC is funded by taxes which are all paid by businesses, both directly and via the people they employ, yet somehow we seem to be public enemy number one. I just don't get it.

And in my defence, I did say that I had enjoyed the Checkout program.
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Follow Up By: Member - Mfewster(SA) - Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 23:20

Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 23:20
Steve M1,
Sorry Steve, but I thought you would have understood my use of irony in calling Rupert "our boy." The company was, after all, begun by his father n Adelaide and that's where I live. When I am contacted and abused, yet again, by friends in the USA and Britain for what he has done to their media/press, I can only wince.
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