Winch Size

Submitted: Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 19:27
ThreadID: 101274 Views:1839 Replies:11 FollowUps:10
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I have a Hino bus I am converting into a motor-home and I want to install a winch for the just in case scenario. Although it will be tempting, I am not going to be taking it across rivers or into deep mud holes, it's more if I park on some grass and after a few day not be able to get out of my parking spot. (spinning on grass)

The biggest winch that Warn makes is the 16,000lbs but they want over 3 grand for the winch. There is the Iron Man and other cheaper brands that have proven themselves but they only go to 12,000lbs.

My bus has a GVM of 9.8 tuns. Would a 12,000lbs winch pull that weight bus off some slippery grass fairly easily on a single line pull and what brand do people recommend besides Warn.
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Reply By: pop2jocem - Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 21:28

Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 21:28
As you say it is unlikely you will be taking a near on 10 tonne bus that was designed to operate on bitumen roads into a situation where you would need a winch.
I would have thought letting some air out of the drive tyres would get you off some wet and slippery grass. Just make sure you have a compressor to pump them back up if the bus does does not have air brakes and therefor already has a compressor.

Cheers
Pop
AnswerID: 507496

Reply By: Ross M - Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 21:35

Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 21:35
GAP104
For the situation you are talking about, ie slippery surfaces with a bit of restriction, at no time will you require anywhere near the weight of the vehicle as your winch capability because you are only asking it to move along, not upwards.

With a double line pull, on suitable points, you will have more pull than your vehicle weight.
So, a 12,000 lb winch should be all you ever need. Maybe an extension cable for use when double pulls are needed, if ever.

Ross M
AnswerID: 507497

Reply By: GAP104 - Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 22:27

Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 22:27
Thanks all for your input.
I have heaps of air supply as I have air breaks but letting the tires down is a little harder as they are duel tires. With buses it's a bit hit and miss with getting out after letting your tyres down, worth a try though.

If I can get a winch that will pull it off muddy grass on a single line pull then if I sink "a little" then double line pull should work provided I don't sink to deep (well that's my theory)

Any recommendations on winch brands beside Warn. Don't get me wrong I had a Warn 8,000lb on my old 4x4 and it got a lot of use and worked well, just they are so expensive.
AnswerID: 507503

Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 22:38

Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 22:38
I have a Warn 16.5Ti on the OKA.

First problem you will face is that the winch will be on the front and you want to go backwards :-(
Mine can be used either front or rear or sideways.....

Second problem will be to find something to attach the winch to.

If you are going to fit one, get the biggest you can and have it moveable front to rear, PLUS fit it with synthetic cable PLUS 2 snatch blocks, PLUS a tree protector, PLUS rated shackles, PLUS a 50M synthetic extension that will go through the snatch blocks.....
The winch is the cheap bit :-(

Another alternative is a set of good snow chains.

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 Motorhome
AnswerID: 507504

Follow Up By: GAP104 - Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 22:49

Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 22:49
Thanks. May have to save up a little and get the bigger winch and yes that is always a problem with winching backwards, detachable is a good idea. I have shackles, snatch blocks, tree protector and long chains but be a good idea to look at the synthetic ropes instead of the cable.

What does your OKA weigh?
(I'm jealous, I always wanted an OKA)
:)
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FollowupID: 784785

Reply By: mountainman - Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 23:49

Sunday, Mar 24, 2013 at 23:49
you dont need a massive winch !!
your only going to use it when the tyres spin on grass, which means a 9000pd will be AMPLE..
You wont realy be going offroad with what your saying, as a coaster bus is rear wheel drive only.
a few properly rated winch straps, shackles and 2 snatch blocks should be ample to get you off the slippery stuff.

premier winch is around 1500, 9000pound and hasnt let me down, even the place that i bought them off, i wanted them to give it a service, they said theyve had NO ISSUES, or any come back.
it came out in front on the winch test 4wd action magazine... even beat warn by a country mile.
low current draw, fastest line speed, and lowest drum temperature !!

if it was an oka and going offroad you would need the big winch,
people forget the bigger the winch the heavier the bastard will be to use front or rear.
9000 pound should be around the 40kg mark..

the 16.5 weight is 63 kg!! thats only the winch, you need a sub frame as well for it to hool up to the front or rear..
WAY TOO HEAVY for the coaster. OVERKILL
AnswerID: 507510

Follow Up By: GAP104 - Monday, Mar 25, 2013 at 00:12

Monday, Mar 25, 2013 at 00:12
Will have a look at the Premier brand.
My bus is a Hino with just under a 10 tun GVM. It is the Hino FD truck chassis with Tost bus body on it, the Coaster in a bit lighter. It's hard to know what the towing rate is when towing a bogged vehicle.

I had a Hilux with a 9,000 lbs on it (Warn) and I took that through some serious play and worked that winch hard, it never failed me so I am thinking a 12,000lb should move 10 tun slightly stuck but I guess the bigger the better.

I would like a 20,000lbs :)
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FollowupID: 784793

Reply By: Dingojim - Monday, Mar 25, 2013 at 06:59

Monday, Mar 25, 2013 at 06:59
Save your $$$ and buy a decent quality 4 Tonne hand winch and a decent snatch block which will get you out of all but the worst.
AnswerID: 507521

Follow Up By: Rod W - Monday, Mar 25, 2013 at 15:12

Monday, Mar 25, 2013 at 15:12
Exactly what Dingo says. You don't have to put tricity to it and can be used in any direction.
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FollowupID: 784828

Follow Up By: olcoolone - Monday, Mar 25, 2013 at 16:56

Monday, Mar 25, 2013 at 16:56
Like to see a 4 ton hand winch pull 9.8 tons...... your a gamer and fitter man than me!
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FollowupID: 784836

Follow Up By: Dingojim - Monday, Mar 25, 2013 at 18:24

Monday, Mar 25, 2013 at 18:24
The type of hand winch I have used for over 30 years are similar to the Supercheap Rydge Ryder. Mine, I have a 1 ton, A 2 ton and a 4 Ton, are a lot better quality than what is available today. The 4 ton one was always in the back of the S3 Landrover and was used to extricate the beast on more than 1 occasion. I mentioned a snatch block as you can effectively double the capacity of whatever type of winch you're using but be very careful about overloading any component in the system. I'm one of the old school with a mistrust of most electrically powered gizmos but unshakeable faith in muscle tearing, hernia inducing mechanical devices.
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FollowupID: 784845

Follow Up By: olcoolone - Monday, Mar 25, 2013 at 19:39

Monday, Mar 25, 2013 at 19:39
There has been 3 times when we have used our winch....... 2 of the times you would of not be able to use a hand winch and the other time you could of....... except it took us about 40 minutes to get our selves out of trouble.... and that was with a electric winch and 50m of cable.

The problem with a snatch block is it also halves your line speed.
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FollowupID: 784851

Reply By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Monday, Mar 25, 2013 at 10:34

Monday, Mar 25, 2013 at 10:34
If all you're worried about is some sink & spin on grass, I'd save a lot of money and buy some traction treads to put under the wheel, or simply make some of your own out of used milk crates..... for the amount of times you'd use them, probably a lot cheaper than a winch.....
AnswerID: 507528

Reply By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Monday, Mar 25, 2013 at 10:49

Monday, Mar 25, 2013 at 10:49
A winch of any size will be useless unless there is an anchor point of adequate strength and in the appropriate location. The winch will weigh 50+kg and you would need to be able to relocate it from front to back. All for a very odd occasion when you may need just a little more traction.


Surely a better proposal is to carry some mat type traction aids. Fraction of the price, fraction of the weight, and needing no anchor point. Something like this which can also serve as doormats.
Cheers
Allan

Member
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AnswerID: 507529

Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Monday, Mar 25, 2013 at 16:43

Monday, Mar 25, 2013 at 16:43
Allan - agree - even a set of MaxTrax (albeit they're overpriced IMHO) would be cheaper than a winch.....

throwing the cat amongst the pigeons ... I wonder if someone did a survey of winch owners and found out how many of them have actually used the thing in a genuine situation..... wonder what the % would be???
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FollowupID: 784835

Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Monday, Mar 25, 2013 at 17:03

Monday, Mar 25, 2013 at 17:03
Oh-oh, You may well have put the cat into the pigeon roost Scott. I wasn't game to go there, even though I think you are correct. Let me just say that sometime, for some people, a winch may be helpful or even necessary. But other times they are an expensive display of manhood!! LOL But I doubt that you would obtain a valid outcome from a survey.


I include MaxTrax in 'traction aids' and in fact carry a pair. Never even needed those (touch wood) but they were very successful on a couple of other vehicles on Fraser Island. And yes Scott, they do seem overpriced. There are some cheaper alternatives available now.
Cheers
Allan

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FollowupID: 784837

Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Monday, Mar 25, 2013 at 19:09

Monday, Mar 25, 2013 at 19:09
hear you Allan .... also a very heavy and expensive display of manhood!!

Seriously though .... if someone gave the the choice to spend a set amount of $$ on either a winch or a set of diff locks, I'd go the latter every time...

Correct tyre pressure, a snatch strap, diff locks, and a shovel will get you out of more situations than a winch will. Unless you're into near vertical forest tracks or getting your jollies on in mud holes.....
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FollowupID: 784848

Reply By: achjimmy - Monday, Mar 25, 2013 at 17:51

Monday, Mar 25, 2013 at 17:51
Go a tirfor,for Occasional use it will be fine. I have pulled a 20t machine on rollers with Tirfors, the worst that will happen is the shear pin will break and you will develop aches and pains!
AnswerID: 507551

Reply By: Eric Experience - Monday, Mar 25, 2013 at 22:00

Monday, Mar 25, 2013 at 22:00
Gap.
I have the same model Hino 9.8 Ton. I have a 12000 LB Runva winch 24 volt, You will cause damage to the batteries if you try to run a 12 volt on one battery. The Runva is cheap enough to by two, one at each end. There are lots of other options for you, a large Turfer is good, once you have recovered yourself with it you will be a better driver from then on because you will not want to do it again. A big plus for dual wheels is the fact that the rear wheels are like a winch drum. If you carry a pair of heavy duty load binder straps with the steel hook on the end you can hook the strap in the hand hole between the duals and the other end of the straps to a cable onto an anchor. This works well in forward or reverse. Eric.
AnswerID: 507583

Follow Up By: GAP104 - Monday, Mar 25, 2013 at 22:31

Monday, Mar 25, 2013 at 22:31
yes I know how hard it is getting trucks and buses out. I have had semi- trailers, loaders and buses sunk to there belly.

I am considering getting two 12,000lbs Iron Man winches (front and rear), but won't be taking my motor-home in places I use to (and still do) take trucks and loaders into. Will run separate 12 volt batteries for the winches with a step down charger.

How does the 12.000lbs winch go on your truck/bus. Is it strong enough to pull you off wet soft grass. I did consider getting a hand winch but my arthritis is not liking that idea. Also motor-homes space is limited so have to find somewhere to put the winch and cable.

Scott M suggested traction treads which I thought of as well. I went to the caravan and camping show on Saturday (Perth) and asked sellers what weight they could handle, not one of them could tell me.

I guess I probably don't really need a winch as the times I would use it would be minimal but considering the overall cost I am putting in to build up my old bus, adding a winch for security would not be much more as I do like to get a little adventurous.
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FollowupID: 784878

Reply By: Crackles - Monday, Mar 25, 2013 at 22:47

Monday, Mar 25, 2013 at 22:47
We have a 24 volt 15000Ib Warn on a 10 tonne Isuzu. This is the correct size for the job. A cheaper option could be a Mako 16500 or 20000lb . http://www.avenger4x4.com.au/products/category/tds_series

A 12000Ib would have to be double blocked all the time & would not recover the bus if the tyres had bogged down significantly. If it rains you can never be sure how far it will sink.
Best options for the situation you describe is to get a heavy duty snatch strap, extension cable, set of mud chains or even just shovel some gravel/sand in front of the tyres.(After you've let some air out) The chances are you won't have a suitable anchor point in the direction you need to winch anyway. Far more likely to be a fellow camper that can give you a tow. Chains can get you moving on a slippery road or out of a table drain.
Cheers Craig........................
AnswerID: 507587

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