Please leave the free places for those who need them

Submitted: Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 13:04
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Because i have no other form of income apart from the age pension i have found i no longer can afford to stay at the caravan park where i have lived for the last four years,when i first came here i was paying a hundred dollars a week now i pay one hundred and thirty five dollars a week plus power which is around forty dollars a fortnight making my cost to stay here over three hundred dollars a fortnight so i am going to have to go and live on the side of the road between pension pays until i can afford more fuel to keep going.I do have a 4.4kva generator and gas which will make life a bit easier.
I get really upset when i hear of people on the forum who have big flash vans and cars to pull them with trying to find free places to stay, put your self in my and other pensioners position where the biggest asset we have got is a 1975 model van and old car who cant afford to stay in a park anymore because of the greed of some park owners.So you can afford to pay please leave the free places to others that need them
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Reply By: Aussi Traveller - Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 13:24

Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 13:24
You know it's funny my parents worked hard all their lives, they became self funded retires.

They went out and bought a new cruiser and a new off road van, they did this so as they could enjoy their twilight years, they have travelled around the country for the past 10 years now having a ball.

Guess what they still pay tax, so I believe they can park their big flash van and car where ever they dam well please, by the way they don't think the world owes them a living.
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Follow Up By: Patrol22 - Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 14:17

Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 14:17
Yep I'm a self funded retiree who continues to pay tax. Gave 42 years of service to the Navy and still don't believe anyone owes me anything. I probably owe my wife and kids a lot to pay them back for the tolerance of my almost 14 years at sea......but hey each to their own I guess. IMHO it should be 'free' to camp anywhere in the bush that is crown land - especially in places where there are no facilities. A nominal fee should be payable for those places where there are facilities to pay for upkeep etc. The only problem I see with such an approach is that so many people are just grubby buggers and don't seem to be able to clean up after themselves.
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 14:47

Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 14:47
Plenty of people who have "worked hard all their lives" have little in the way of assets or income in their old age to show for it - for a range of reasons. Understanding and compassion used to be an Aussie trait but it got lost as we became more affluent and has now been replaced by selfabsorption and selfishness.
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Follow Up By: Gaynor - Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 15:34

Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 15:34
It is not my place to judge. I am not an Australian, so if I am told to butt out, I will accept the retort quietly.

Although I do not agree with Briggo's sentiments, I am not sure that Aussi Traveller's sentiments, the way they are expressed, sit any more comfortably. Not after having read that post about the Aussie farmer hitch hiker who lost everything after working hard all his life and could not even pay for a bus fare to somewhere, because the banks took everything.

My 91 year old Grandmother worked hard all her life, for a very big corporate, but her pension does not even put enough food in her tummy, let alone pay the rent. Thanksheavens she raised children who take care of her now. Otherwise, where would she be?
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Follow Up By: Thinkin - Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 16:44

Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 16:44
There we go, putting down the aged pensioner.

Who knows how hard the "pensioner " worked all his life and paid taxes, could have worked for "self funded retires" who ran a great business and were able to employ good accountants.

Believe me, there are many a pensioner who has benefited many "self funded retires" in this situation.

This attitude "can park their big flash van and car where ever they dam well please" say's a lot.

Bricklaying, shearers and roustabouts are hard workers.

redards Alpero
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Follow Up By: Aussi Traveller - Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 16:57

Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 16:57
The old man was a builder not self employed and mum was a teacher.
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 17:05

Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 17:05
yep - maybe briggo has worked hard all his life too.

If your parents are paying tax it is because they are fortunate enough to have a taxable income even though they have retired.
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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 17:47

Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 17:47
I dont think any one is putting down the old aged pensioner?
Just sticking up for thoses who have done alright for themselves.
Just because someone has a flasher car or van than yourself doesnt mean they should pay your camping fees does it?
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Follow Up By: Aussi Traveller - Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 18:15

Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 18:15
For those of you that had a go at me, answer this.

At what point did I become a self absorbed selfish pensioner basher????

All I did was point out a few facts, just because I didn't say it the way you would have liked you have a go at me.

briggo you too can park you van and car where ever you dam well please as well, but if I turn up next to you in my new 200 series and camper trailer, don't be jealous come over and have a beer, you will probably find people like us are human after all I would probably shout you one.
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Follow Up By: Gaynor - Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 21:25

Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 21:25
Not having a go Aussie Traveller...just commenting on a topic, as did you. I sometimes find we are oblivious to how other people live and it is not always because the people are lazy so and so's. Although there is a lot of that around.

I am very grateful for the 4 years I hitched around Australia. I had the opportunity to stay in houses the present royal family slept in and I have also stayed in Aboriginal Communities for weeks at a time. More often it was the comfortable mix in between.

Life is full of interesting stories and I listened to each and every one. They all have a place and life is richer for sharing.
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Follow Up By: Echucan Bob - Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 12:07

Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 12:07
Receiving superannuation as a teacher, or a service pension after 42 years in the Navy doesn't make you a self funded retiree. People who are the beneficiaries of government superannuation are heavily subsidised by taxpayers.
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 14:26

Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 14:26
Yep Bob, anyone on one of the old defined benefit schemes can count themselves relatively "lucky" now, even though the schemes were introduced for very good reasons at the time and lose value every year. It's not that simple of course. Many people could have earnt much better salaries in the private sector but for various reasons, including the more-generous (in some cases) long term retirement benefits, stayed in "public service" at local, state or national levels. Teachers, police, health workers, servicemen and women, scientists, geologists, agronomists, social workers, accountants, economists, project managers, building assessors.....professional, technical and tradespeople. The list is very long and their contributions to the affluent society most of us now enjoy is undeniable. The other side of the penny so-to-speak.
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Follow Up By: Patrol22 - Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 15:34

Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 15:34
Not to forget that we also contributed 5.5% of our salary to the scheme and for all of us military folks there was no overtime payments for those endless hours over 14 years at sea time etc. So I'm thinking we have every right to consider ourselves as self-funded retirees in every sense of the the word. Not bitching mind you - the work, the challenges, the mateships far exceeded any of the "bad" points and given the opportunity I would do it all over again.
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 16:05

Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 16:05
spot on Bob.....and not to forget those self-employed who contribute a sight more than 5.5% because nobody else does and they subsidise not only the pensions but the jobs of those in the public employ. I certainly wouldn't be starting a business in today's (or the foreseeable) climate. Only for the brave or foolish.

Endless hours at sea? Isn't that what the navy do, go to sea? Your choice to have a rock-solid secure job and very generous pension.
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Follow Up By: Patrol22 - Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 16:21

Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 16:21
Agree Steve M1 and there's no bitching from me either if you read the post....but puleeeeeeeeze don't drag out the hoary old 'self employed' chestnut. My old man was self employed, my two brothers, and one of my sisters are self employed and they do very well for themselves. Never heard them whining that they did/are subsidising others who choose different lines of work. The vast majority of folks in this country do OK over their lives even if we bitch about things a little too much. Just saying.
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 16:43

Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 16:43
Hoary old chestnut is a fact - not whining any more than you were about endless hours. Just saying.

Getting a bit off-topic anyway.
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 18:07

Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 18:07
Agree Patrol, it's a hoary old chestnut if ever there was one. Many self-employed people are very much on the public teat, directly and indirectly, unless of course you believe there is no such thing as the cash economy. Plenty more examples but as Steve says it's a bit off topic.
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 18:30

Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 18:30
oh here comes poor, corrupted Rupert's mate......well, that depends on the time of day, before he changes his argument.

If you'd ever stood on your own two feet you might realise that any cash economy benefit goes to the consumer who doesn't mind depriving those on the govt gravy train their gst when looking for a discount.



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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 23:25

Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 23:25
Rupert's mate? You're dead wrong but thanks for the reminder, that seems to be a habit of yours on this forum. Your comment with regard to cash economies is puerile. No doubt it works for individuals who want to avoid paying the taxes - the same people who expect governments to deliver services and infrastructure which support everything in our society. But I'll give you this - the cash economy has done wonders for Greece and Russia.
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Reply By: Hairy (NT) - Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 13:32

Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 13:32
Are you serious? Hey Cobber..........this might be a good example of a troll......I hope?
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Follow Up By: Tjukayirla Roadhouse - Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 13:35

Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 13:35
I was just thinking this was posted a day late..LOL

Cheers
Al
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Follow Up By: cobber - Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 23:47

Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 23:47
Hi Hairy, your not wrong, I Apologise if I was out of order in the other discussion, but when you said that you diden't know what a flat white (coffee) was I thought you were having a go.
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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 23:49

Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 23:49
No worries mate.
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Reply By: baz&pud (tassie) - Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 13:59

Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 13:59
I did type an answer, then decided it wasn't worth it.
Go caravaning, life is so much shorter than death.

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Reply By: Member -Dodger - Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 15:40

Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 15:40
We too are pensioners, and also like to free/bush camp where practical.
We also like company at those places and do not mind what financial status those people are as usually they are like minded.
All of us are entitled to bush camp as far as I am concerned.
My sentiments are as by John Williamson




I used to have a handle on life, but it broke.

Cheers Dodg.

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Follow Up By: Member -Dodger - Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 15:43

Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 15:43
Try this if the video does not work.



Camfire By the Road.
I used to have a handle on life, but it broke.

Cheers Dodg.

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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 17:02

Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 17:02
think I'll pass, thanks

:)
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Follow Up By: Member - Berylvt - Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 17:26

Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 17:26
Very appropriate music clip!
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Follow Up By: Member - silkwood - Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 18:13

Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 18:13
Nothing sung by John Williamson is appropriate! (unless you're trying to get people to leave your party!)

;-)

Cheers,

Mark
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 18:28

Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 18:28
onya Mark - glad you said it ;)


Drone along with John - the Mrs reckons she'd rather listen to me in the shower

LOL



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Reply By: Hairy (NT) - Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 17:29

Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 17:29
Gday,
I dont think anyone likes to see someone doing it tough mate, but to assume everyone who has a "big flash van and car" is loaded with cash and should fork out money every where they go is a bit rough.
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Reply By: ferris - Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 17:52

Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 17:52
Nothing like a bit of class warfare. After Julia and Wayne have finished playing with super, many will be camping alongside Briggo.
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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 18:21

Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 18:21
Ferris! Good call. Wayne Goose will retire on $170,000 a year, indexed. So imagine the amount of super he would need to get that amount per year as a pension from his super fund. Michael
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 19:11

Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 19:11
Anyone who can afford to put a good amount of money into super, especially pre-tax $$, would know and should be able to acknowledge that they are on a very good wicket. The generous super taxation benefits to people on already high salaries/earnings can't be justified when pensioners, carers and the disabled are doing it so tough. Nor are these benefits sustainable - as both major parties realise.
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Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 18:23

Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 18:23
Beating up on the wrong things here....
There is plenty of space in this country for everyone to 'free camp'.
The fact that too few of those places are available to everyone, irrespective of their financial state is the issue.
We should put more effort into addressing that.

www.freechoicecamps.com.au

Cheers,
Peter
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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 19:17

Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 19:17
Good on you Peter! Well put! Michael
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Follow Up By: Nigel Migraine - Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 20:38

Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 20:38
www.freechoicecamps.com.au

Nice link, thank you - we should all fight for our rights to free camp, it's our damn country after all.


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Follow Up By: Gone Bush (WA) - Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 23:15

Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 23:15
That's a very ill-conceived website basing its argument on a fallacy.

Free camp out in the bush by all means but you will find that a lot of people expect to "free" camp right in the middle of regional cities in parks, showgrounds etc provided by the Council.

If people knew how much local CPs paid to these Councils in rates and taxes you would understand their opposition. If we all referred to these campsites as Ratepayer Funded Campsites we would realise that there's no such thing as a free lunch. Someone, somewhere is covering the cost.

You can't expect CPs to pay huge amounts to their Councils and not complain when the Council sets up a free (to users) version of a CP in opposition.

It pays to look closely when vocal minority groups start spruiking, their agenda is usually based on smoke and mirrors.
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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 10:29

Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 10:29
The problem is cheap, affordable, not-so-fancy Council-run caravan parks have been sold off by cash-strapped councils to private enterprise. The parks are then re-developed into five star "family tourist/holiday parks" with swimming pools, en-suite toilets, jumping domes, indoor recreation facilities, expensive landscaping, shops, you name it, all of which costs money. So the fees go up from $15 to $45.

Most of us retirees don't want or use all that crap and we don't want to be forced to pay for it. Yes, there will be some who don't mind but the rest of us in our reasonably self-sufficient rigs just want a place to stay for a couple of days to do some washing (main street Laundromat is fine, no need for a tiled Taj-mahal), resupply, re-fuel and a bit of a look around.

Depending what facilities are offered, it doesn't have to be free, but it does have to be a lot less than the whingeing developer's alternative.

The developers make the choice to "develop" the parks they acquire - let them FIND the business to support their investment, not COMPEL the traveller to use it.

Maybe, just maybe, they've over-developed and their indiscretion should not be foisted on people who want nothing of it.

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Follow Up By: gordon_adel - Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 17:23

Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 17:23
Frank, nobody is 'forcing' you to pull up to that caravan park. If a council doesn't provide free or cheap camping, again nobody is forcing you to stay there.

Just as it's the caravan parks choice to redevelop and charge what they want, it's your choice to stay or not. Just move on if you don't want to pay that much.

It doesn't make them greedy or anything else.
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Follow Up By: Gone Bush (WA) - Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 17:47

Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 17:47
That's right Gordon.

Frank's use of words like "compel" and "foisted" shows just as much inaccurate spin on the situation as that website does.



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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 18:48

Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 18:48
"It doesn't make them greedy or anything else."

It does when they lobby the council, or when their peak body lobbies local government and they get the alternatives shut down AFTER they've set up shop.

Of course it's their prerogative to redevelop and charge what they want, but that should be where it ends. But it's not. They chip away through their chambers of commerce or get on the council themselves and get their low-cost opposition (show grounds or traditional free camping areas) shut down.

And yes, of course I have a choice to stay or move on. I move on if I can. So do the other 400 members of the club I am in. There is a lot of money not being spent in those towns - hardly a win for them, yet they could probably do with the cash flow.

But as you say, Gordon, it's their choice.
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Follow Up By: Gone Bush (WA) - Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 20:14

Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 20:14
This belief that if Grey Nomads aren't given free camping then that town misses out on economic benefit is a myth.

People who are too tight to spend money at a CP are also too tight to spend anywhere else. They are the same freeloaders who are ruining it for everyone else by stealing power when they can, stealing water instead of paying a dollar or two, ignoring honour boxes, pinching toilet paper, staying for weeks in a 48 hour campsite... I could go on.

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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 21:22

Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 21:22
A very well thought out, logical, unemotional argument, GB. Not.

You really should sleep on that sort of crap before posting. You do yourself a disservice.

On second thoughts, perhaps you didn't.

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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 21:26

Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 21:26
Gone Bush! A pretty wild statement! You make it sound like a pack of Gypsies, robbing and stealing their way across the country. How easy would it be to just pull up and sleep overnight and on your way in the morning. I would think it would be more to do with convenience more that the $20 a night for most people. How many drive through spots are available in Caravan parks so some of the more elderly don't have to disconnect and re connect their van in the morning. Its a task for fit, let alone the less fit and elderly trying to see a bit of the country in their twilight years with a little independence. Not everyone has an off road van so they cant venture off the road too far so its an overnight stop or a caravan Park, or a NP if close by and suits their trip route. Stealing toilet paper and the like would be quite foreign to most people on the road. For 99% of the Grey nomads who are out and about enjoying what this beautiful country has to offer, have obviously worked throughout their life so should be able to go about their trip in any manner that their budget allows! Regards Michael
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Thursday, Apr 04, 2013 at 10:33

Thursday, Apr 04, 2013 at 10:33
What is wrong is the whole model.

The baby-boomer brigade have benefited substantially from rising land and house values in Australia for a long period of time. This has enabled them to downsize, buy the big cruiser and caravan and head off with cash in their pockets.

The problem is that land values have gone up everywhere, including the land that many caravan parks are situated on.

The term “you can’t have your cake and eat it” comes to mind.

Rates alone mean that charging $15 a night for a caravan park site is a thing of the past. In fact, caravan parks as we have known them for a long period of time are finished, there is no money in it whatsoever.

They will continue to be developed into cabin style accommodation.

And many local council’s are coming to the realisation that providing free camping to attract this group to their towns doesn’t necessarily provide the benefits expected, especially when it is balanced against rate-payer complaints. There are many examples of communities that have questioned this strategy.

I think people need to be more realistic in terms of what they can expect to be provided for free when they travel. Of course, there is no such thing as free camping, someone is paying for it, one way or the other...
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Reply By: Wilko (Parkes NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 18:33

Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 18:33
Hi Briggo,

Firstly there is nothing wrong with someone who has done well for themselves, lets not tall poppie bash here, I think I've done well for myself but really im just another glorified shitkicker.

Secondly,I like to free camp and have found that Travelling stock routes the most common place I camp but the Government seems to be hell bent on selling them.

Cheers Wilko
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Reply By: Denis H - Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 19:26

Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 19:26
Smoke, Drink, Parity and on the Dole during one's work period of life and no big rig but want to own all the free camps. Mmmmmmmmmmmm. I hope you are not one Briggo!
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Follow Up By: Member -Pinko (NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 21:50

Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 21:50
Denis, the thought passed my mind to ?
Living is a journey,it depends on where you go !
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Follow Up By: briggo - Friday, Apr 05, 2013 at 09:39

Friday, Apr 05, 2013 at 09:39
No i am not one of those mate after a accident in 1990 i was put on a disabled pension but last year ms gilard decised to promote me and put me on the aged pension,i should be thankful for that i suppose.I came to oz in 1985 took up citizenship worked my bum off driving a truck untill the prang in 1990 and paid a zillion dollars in tax so i am grateful to have the pension.I paid $1500.00 for my old 15' millard and have done it up to the stage where i have registered it and want to get on the road and take a look around before i die but the only way i can do this is to camp mainly for nothing where i can.I got $5000.00 dollars super which i spent mainly doing up my van now i would like to use it.
Boy i didnt know i was stiring up a hornets nest when i first posted but it has sure livened up the forum.
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Follow Up By: gordon_adel - Friday, Apr 05, 2013 at 12:12

Friday, Apr 05, 2013 at 12:12
Briggo,

I can understand you're struggling on the pension. But to tell us NOT to park somewhere just so you can have it, that's just plain rude.

Me personally, I wouldn't spend my last $15 grand on an old van fixing it up. But that's certainly your prerogative. I can understand you want to travel and see the country before you die. I'd like to take the QE2 for a 'around the world' cruise. But, alas I can't afford it, so I won't.

I will instead live within my means. That's just life.

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Reply By: Bobjl - Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 22:39

Tuesday, Apr 02, 2013 at 22:39
Briggo
Experience tells me that some folk will get into difficult financial situations through misfortune, poor health and other adversity, if that is your case then I genuinely feel for you and your family. Sometimes life puts up barriers wherever we turn and no matter what we do, nothing good seems to come our way.
If however, you have wasted opportunities, or you squandered your income, then I would be less understanding. I am a fortunate retiree who is doing OK, but I should not need to make apologies for that. Although I have a big rig and sometimes take advantage of free camp areas for a number of reasons, including financial, I would be loathe to give up a spot and go to the next caravan park [and pay] just to help someone else who is less fortunate than myself. Similar to many others I have paid a lot of tax along the way and [happily], I have never had a cent from Centre link and expect it may be a little while before I do. Like other respondents, I would be one of the first to offer a feed and a beer to someone doing it tough, however I would not ever want to give a dime to any person that would spend it on drugs, alcohol or gambling. Sitting round a caravan park day in day out would be depressing indeed, unless you are suffering a physical disability, perhaps the Caravan park will allow you to cut out some rent in return for some work around the park or cleaning the ablutions [I have done those jobs myself in the past], this might generate $300 a fortnight tax free for you. I doubt the Park owner is greedy, rather he/she is in all probability just trying to get a return on his/her investment, and that is imperative in a sustainable economy. I wish you better luck and good health.
Bob
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Reply By: Member - Arsenal Phill - Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 09:21

Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 09:21
If original posting was genuine, then I sympathise with Briggo. Not very keen on his attitude though. I think I have pretty nice set up but like to think I've worked bloody hard for it. So being despised by others because of it, isn't in the Aussie Spirit either!
I agree with the person, (can't read back as need to get out the door), that expanding free camping etc should be addressed and that's where the real issue lays.
So for my own tangent, we have friends that need to use caravan parks so when we are with them, so do we. I'd like to ask all the grey Nomads that stay at sites for weeks and weeks at a time, filling them up, not to do it, and give others a chance that have a limited window to visit!!! LOL
AnswerID: 508077

Reply By: Member - Keith A1 - Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 10:24

Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 10:24
I can sympathise with your problems Briggo, but I think you are blaming the wrong people for them.
If more people free-camped, the caravan parks might be forced to lower their rates to attract patrons. It is demand for places that is allowing them to put their fees up.
AnswerID: 508082

Follow Up By: The Landy - Thursday, Apr 04, 2013 at 10:35

Thursday, Apr 04, 2013 at 10:35
What is wrong is the whole model.

The baby-boomer brigade have benefited substantially from rising land and house values in Australia for a long period of time. This has enabled them to downsize, buy the big cruiser and caravan and head off with cash in their pockets.

The problem is that land values have gone up everywhere, including the land that many caravan parks are situated on.

The term “you can’t have your cake and eat it” comes to mind.

Rates alone mean that charging $15 a night for a caravan park site is a thing of the past. In fact, caravan parks as we have known them for a long period of time are finished, there is no money in it whatsoever.

They will continue to be developed into cabin style accommodation.

And many local council’s are coming to the realisation that providing free camping to attract this group to their towns doesn’t necessarily provide the benefits expected, especially when it is balanced against rate-payer complaints. There are many examples of communities that have questioned this strategy.

I think people need to be more realistic in terms of what they can expect to be provided for free when they travel. Of course, there is no such thing as free camping, someone is paying for it, one way or the other...
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Reply By: sid W (WA) - Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 13:17

Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 13:17
Another angle that hasn't been given much attention here is this:
There are numerous free-camping areas set up by shires and councils to enable travellers (rich or poor) to safely stop in reasonable safety and comfort for a night or two. There is often a maximum time limit (eg 48 or 72 hours), so that true travellers (rich or poor) can count on having somewhere to pull over and enjoy the company (and safety in numbers) of fellow itinerants over a glass of good wine (if you're rich) or cup of tea (if you're not).
Problem is, so many of these spots are being hogged for weeks (or months?) at a time by "semi-permanents" or "permanents" (rich or poor), taking up far more space than an itinerant would, hanging out their washing, and generally claiming the place as their own. Unfortunately they are allowed to remain there, either due to poor policing and enforcing by the relevant authorities, or out of sympathy by them for the "offenders'" situation.
All I can say is:
(a) these campers are taking away from the intended purpose of these spots, to the detriment of real travellers.
(b) if I ever find myself in the situation of having to free-camp long term (and believe me it could happen), I'll find myself a spot in the bush somewhere that won't affect anyone else.
AnswerID: 508086

Follow Up By: Member - Duncan W (WA) - Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 16:05

Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 16:05
Got to agree with you Sid. Called in for a pit stop at a 24hr campsite between Timber Crk & Katherine a few years back and it was packed out at 11.00am. Heard people were pulling in about morning tea time just to secure a spot. Some had been there for days because it was a reasonably pretty spot and they were enjoying the social interaction. Pity you if you were a late in the day traveller.

Also spoke to a couple who were camped up at a van park in Kalbarri for the winter, (fuel was to damned expensive to be travelling around all that much). Said they were basically camping for free because they had volunteered to work around the van park. Said when their pension savings had grown a bit they would move back home to Perth. They were renting their home out so were getting a bit of an income from that as well.
Dunc
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FollowupID: 785491

Reply By: Gone Bush (WA) - Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 14:04

Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 14:04
briggo has confirmed his Troll status by not bothering to come back and participate any further in his thread.

TROLL !!

I'm glad I ain't too scared to be lazy
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AnswerID: 508087

Reply By: Rockape - Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 14:07

Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 14:07
briggo might not have done to well through life but he sure won't go hungry,

What a tremendous fisherman. Great catch using such little bait.
AnswerID: 508088

Follow Up By: bluefella - Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 16:35

Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 16:35
Almost fell for it, whew!. Still, it bought out a lot of varied discussion.
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Reply By: Member - Murray M2 - Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 20:30

Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 20:30
WELL, what can I say, I too am a pensioner and have also fought for this country and also volunteered for a lot of the Emergency Services (and still do) I also travel in my I am "so sorry to say, a modest Offroader and 4WD" because I LOVE this country. I would love to hear from you re your living habits, IE, smoking drinking etc, (wild women etc)
if you are going to get on the forum and make a statement please do us all a favour and give us a bit of background so we can make a full judgement. I question at the beginning as to why you need a 4.4kva generator???? Also have you thought that some of these so called big flash vans etc are probably all these people have in their lives and God knows how many are suffering from some terminal illness and this is their chance to have some Quality of Life.
I really don't think you should use this Forum to vent your spleen on those that you dont know about. You know they may be worse off than you,,,,, yes I have met some and I wish them well that they can finish the Final TRIP.

I know of places that look after those that have served and are prepared to lend a hand,

so please do not begrudge us that have as little as you but just get on with life and enjoy them whats travel good ole OZ
MUZ
AnswerID: 508106

Follow Up By: Fiona & Paul - Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 21:38

Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 21:38
Well put Murray M2 and I'm agree with you for sure.

Regards
Paul H
Paul H
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FollowupID: 785524

Reply By: Member - Dirt Princess - Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 22:48

Wednesday, Apr 03, 2013 at 22:48
Well, all I gots to say is after my two days in a very noisy caravan park I thank God I have the choice to park somewhere else for free away from the noise.

Dirt
AnswerID: 508124

Follow Up By: Tjukayirla Roadhouse - Thursday, Apr 04, 2013 at 11:57

Thursday, Apr 04, 2013 at 11:57
My last trip across the Nullarbor I kept driving into Norseman to stay at the van park as all the free spots on the way were chock'o'block full with barely a blade of grass between vans..
The van park was nice and peaceful with empty sites all around us..lol

Cheers
Al
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FollowupID: 785585

Follow Up By: Member - Dirt Princess - Thursday, Apr 04, 2013 at 12:16

Thursday, Apr 04, 2013 at 12:16
Yeah Al

That Van Park is nice especially in the chalets with the spas! Quiet too and bed was great, meals at the restaurant were yummy. I could easily stay there again.

And I might add, my stay in Hopetoun was at a very busy time (Easter) so I am sure it is quiet in the off times. But I did have an appreciation for the quiet bush camps at the time:) and thought about shifting camp.

Keep safe
Dirt

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FollowupID: 785586

Reply By: Dingojim - Saturday, Apr 06, 2013 at 06:53

Saturday, Apr 06, 2013 at 06:53
A most interesting thread with lots of intelligent and thoughtful input. there is also views expressed which convey the impression that ' I am better than you because I don't rely on a pension to live', 'my rig is bigger and better than yours' and ' if you can't afford to stay in a CP you should'nt be cluttering up my space'. What crappy attitudes some people have. In my traveling/camping world, the real world, where we pull our trousers on 1 leg at a time and wipe our lips with the back of our hand, there is room for almost anyone who wants to be there. I say almost anyone because We don't care if your in an 'old' caravan being towed by an 'old' car, or if you are in a $300k U beaut. If you are clean and tidy you can camp next to us no worries. If you are a grubby bugger I promise you you will not be there for long. For those of you responsible, stop denigrating and belittling our fellow travelers who are not as fortunate as others. I'm not advocating any special treatment for the less fortunate but at least give them a fair bloody go. Cheers.
AnswerID: 508316

Follow Up By: gordon_adel - Saturday, Apr 06, 2013 at 09:47

Saturday, Apr 06, 2013 at 09:47
But you are advocating and asking for special treatment. You specifically asked people not to park in free camps and let you park there instead.
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FollowupID: 785806

Reply By: Member - Keith Berg - Saturday, Apr 06, 2013 at 17:09

Saturday, Apr 06, 2013 at 17:09
Good Luck to you Briggo.
I hope that, in the last of your Autumn years, life is kind to you.
AnswerID: 508341

Follow Up By: fisho64 - Sunday, Apr 07, 2013 at 00:12

Sunday, Apr 07, 2013 at 00:12
Id guess his autumn years are a long way into the future, hes likely about 18, pasty and pimply faced with thick glasses and blogging his escapades on here as we speak :-)
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FollowupID: 785882

Reply By: Dingojim - Monday, Apr 08, 2013 at 03:36

Monday, Apr 08, 2013 at 03:36
gorden_adel you want to spend a little time getting your facts right gumflapper.. I advocated nothing of the sort. And fisho 50 1/2 or something, with your attitude a round of drinks for ALL your mates would leave you plenty of change out of $5.
AnswerID: 508455

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