Upgrading HJ60 2H engine with another better engine

Submitted: Wednesday, Apr 24, 2013 at 03:57
ThreadID: 101842 Views:11881 Replies:5 FollowUps:14
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I have HJ60 1986 and wanted to replace its 2H engine and 5 speed transmission

I have located 12HT engine but its turbo is faulty and wanted to know if its OK to buy and ride with faulty turbo as unable to locate original used or new turbo. Would someone please advice from where can i locate this turbo part? Also wanted to know how is 12Ht engine compared with 2H engine

Are there any other better engines such as V8 or any other newer type of engine which can easily fit in together with new transmission ideally which is simple, fuel efficient and doesn't require computer related stuff. I have access to US made engines and transmission as these are cheaper in USA especially the used ones .

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Reply By: Mountain Goat - Wednesday, Apr 24, 2013 at 05:37

Wednesday, Apr 24, 2013 at 05:37
I posted a thread last night about my latest 80 series Landcruiser that I just bought, which has a new 6.5L Chev V8 Turbo diesel in it.
I can't recommend the conversion highly enough.
If your American mate can ship you an engine (they are still available and made brand new for the US millitary for their H1 Hummers) they you might be able to do the conversion affordably.
These new crate engines with mechanical injector pump and larger turbo cost around $26,000 and then you will need a few grand for "Marks" adaptors to bolt it up, and an engineers certificate.
Definitely not cheap, but it's one option for you anyway.

Personally I'd be picking up the 12HT and having it and it's turbo fully reconditioned and bolting it in- it's a brilliant engine.
Cheers!
AnswerID: 509643

Follow Up By: Mountain Goat - Wednesday, Apr 24, 2013 at 05:46

Wednesday, Apr 24, 2013 at 05:46
Another option:
I have heard that Toyota have surplus 1HZ engines on pallets wrapped in plastic. They are the non-turbo diesel as fitted to 80 and 100 series Landcruisers. They are $3,000.
This is what a work mate bought so i'm just going off what he got.

For a brand new engine, with an after market turbo kit, I think you get a lot for your money, for around $6,500!
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Reply By: mountainman - Wednesday, Apr 24, 2013 at 05:39

Wednesday, Apr 24, 2013 at 05:39
you can get the turbo recoed, or even better would be getting it tweated.
their is a mob in perth that does realy good work on turbos especialy the toyota engines.
if turbo is faulty and breaks up, you can pretty well say bye bye birdie to your 12ht.
and a rebuild will be next.

ive looked into the 12ht's myself.
the early 12ht are around the 14ltrs in economy, and the later are getting down to 10ltrs to a 100..

12ht is direct injection.
2h is indirect injection.

the engine will bolt straight up to the engine mounts.
its basicaly the same block but the 12ht gets a more efficient and direct injection head.
this will handle heaps of power, compared to the 2h, its prone to overheating in the head for some reason, a properly setup 2h and turbo will actualy go better than a 12ht.
also the 2ht will have reduced temps in the head as the turbo helps the engine run more efficient and reduce engine temps as a result.
ive been looking at doing this to my cruiser myself.
but i need to source the 12ht and 5spd..

the 12ht will handle alot more heat better than the 2h. soo can easily be powered up.
12ht is quite a bit louder, than the 2h in my eyes, you realy notice the cars going past with one in it, and see whos done the conversion, or lucky to get it when toyota put it in at the factory.

im more looking at the 1hdt myself one day, alot quieter, over the noise in the cab i tell you.
it can rev to 5'000 ? compared to 3500 for the 12ht and 2h.
1hdt isnt as good on fuel, but alot newer engine, and parts wont be an issue for us in australia, as compared to 12ht parts are getting hard to source..

other option is the 1hd ft...
very good on fuel, same as 12ht, better than 1hdt,
these are very expensive engines.
and most in the know would rather spend the money on the 1hdt far cheaper, and easy drive.
more available..

your located in america?
this would help on answers.
AnswerID: 509644

Follow Up By: Naveed Merchant - Wednesday, Apr 24, 2013 at 14:09

Wednesday, Apr 24, 2013 at 14:09
Mountainman

Concerning engine prone to overheating .. would you please let me know if you meant 12HT is prone to overheating or is 2H prone to overheating? I have found that my 2H was prone to overheating.
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Follow Up By: mountainman - Wednesday, Apr 24, 2013 at 15:49

Wednesday, Apr 24, 2013 at 15:49
12ht will have no overheating issues as its direct injection.
it can handle alot of tweaking, fuel and turbo mods and no heating issues.
but you need to use a 12ht radiator if your going this way.

i dont know the climate your driving in, if its warm, or hot you will need to run the 12ht radiator.

the 2h has poor cooling because of the indirect injection.
and because theyre generaly a slug to drive, your more inclined to push them, and thats why they overheat.

in an ideal world, if toyota brought the 2h they should have fitted a pyro guage.
it tells you if your pushing the engine too far, and you back off, soo engine remains in safe range.
the guage is installed in the exhaust manifold, and monitors gas temps..
when you see it reach a certain temp, and its climbing more, thats when you back off, and try to save the engine.

2h are well known for it, the pyro is the safest bet to minimise overheating.
the heat just cant get rid of the heat enough.
a turbo will make the engine more efficient and run cooler, but follow the pyro as well..
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Follow Up By: Batt's - Wednesday, Apr 24, 2013 at 20:28

Wednesday, Apr 24, 2013 at 20:28
I never had any overheating issues with the 2H or 12HT I use to get the radiator pressure flushed every year because I done a lot of beach driving to prevent any chance of heating problems
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Reply By: Batt's - Wednesday, Apr 24, 2013 at 11:17

Wednesday, Apr 24, 2013 at 11:17
I had a 1986 HJ61 12HT Sahara there a very good motor it's worth putting one in your cruiser you'll love it on the Hwy & hilly areas compared to the 2H. I reckon it's would be worth getting the motor checked out first if possible and rebuilt & check around your local turbo shops for a rebuild price. If you get a 5 speed box don't tow anything bigger than a box trailer in 5th gear or you'll wreck it. They rev higher than 3,500 rpm they red line closer to 4,000rpm from memory. The pipe coming off the turbo is about 2 1/2" I had the standard 2" replaced to to suit which increased the power. With 33" tyres the economy is generally around the 12lph. I think the radiator is the same as the 2H just looking at the gregorys manual.
AnswerID: 509658

Reply By: Naveed Merchant - Wednesday, Apr 24, 2013 at 11:26

Wednesday, Apr 24, 2013 at 11:26
I am located in Pakistan in very hot climate with temperatures reaching 45 to 49C in summers and occasionally offroad driving uphill on mountains which causes engine to overheat... So it seems 12HT is prone to overheating vs 2H? But even my existing 2H overheats during summers when temperatures reach 45 to 49C and even overheats when I go on highways running over 110km/hr after 2 to 4 hours of driving. I would guess I would need to look whats causing 2H to overheat and perhaps this can be resolved.

So it looks 1hdt or 1hdft is better, but will this directly fit in HJ60 with 5 speed or do I need to buy new transmission or do additional modifications? Any idea on how much this engine costs? What is its fuel economy?

I had heard used good condition American petrol engines with transmissions are cheap in USA and was thinking of bolting these in HJ60 but don’t want to spend huge amounts on it ...

Based on above feedback do you think its better I rebuilt 2H and install turbo which will help reducing its heat? Or opt for 12HT which probably overheats? Or opt for 1hdt or 1hdft? I also have option for getting used American petrol engine and used Toyota petrol engines out of Landcruisers as these are easily available in Dubai and USA as I have access to US and UAE markets.

AnswerID: 509660

Follow Up By: PeterInSa - Wednesday, Apr 24, 2013 at 14:09

Wednesday, Apr 24, 2013 at 14:09
Years ago I had a HJ61/ 12HT Cruiser pulling a 24 caravan(2450Kg) in summer without any heating problems but the temperature was not 45 to 49deg C.

I would seriously consider the 12ht, with a 4 core radiator if it will fit and maybe a bonnet scoop for extra cooling. But do not know what impact the bonnet scoop will have.

Would also look at a Snorkle, they I understand increase full economy and may make the engine not work as hard.

Peter
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Follow Up By: Naveed Merchant - Wednesday, Apr 24, 2013 at 15:03

Wednesday, Apr 24, 2013 at 15:03
I will then go ahead with 12HT.. I have found a good used 12HT but it has faulty turbo and needs replacement .. my mechanic suggests that he can provide gerrit turbo from another used engine and modify it .. will this work? or can i buy a better after market turbo?
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Follow Up By: mountainman - Wednesday, Apr 24, 2013 at 15:56

Wednesday, Apr 24, 2013 at 15:56
you can get the turbo modified and push out some pretty healthy numbers, like 450nm of torque.

go with the 12ht, handle the heat real easy.

other engines 1hdt and 1hd ft will require some work to fit,
12ht will bolt straight in.

2h radiator IS DIFFERENT to 12ht radiator.
im looking at fitting the 12ht radiator in mine.
its a 100mm wider and was told the same 100 higher.
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Follow Up By: Naveed Merchant - Wednesday, Apr 24, 2013 at 19:08

Wednesday, Apr 24, 2013 at 19:08
My local mechanic in Pakistan thinks the existing HJ60 radiator will work fine on 12HT.. i guess its better not to take chances and get better or larger radiator...

Can i make existing turbo work? from where can i get a better turbo?

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Follow Up By: mountainman - Wednesday, Apr 24, 2013 at 19:14

Wednesday, Apr 24, 2013 at 19:14
send your turbo away to be renewed, or while its their have them do some magic on it.
dont know in your country, if you have people who have the R&D into the turbo internals.
in australia we have numorous companies that can do mods..
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FollowupID: 787649

Follow Up By: Batt's - Wednesday, Apr 24, 2013 at 20:21

Wednesday, Apr 24, 2013 at 20:21
Ah so the radiator is different definitely would put the correct one in. The 12HT isn't prone to overheating I never had any problem with my sahara which has a tare weight 2,300kg and our temps is Aus can get just as hot. Even sitting on 130kph at 3,000rpm in the Northern Territory which is the speed limit now days no overheating issues never had trouble towing boats or caravans or beach driving the GQ patrol I have now have inherit cooling problems but not the toyota's. The 12HT is a good motor you'll be happy with you choice good luck with it.
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Follow Up By: Naveed Merchant - Thursday, Apr 25, 2013 at 16:42

Thursday, Apr 25, 2013 at 16:42
Great.. i am purchasing the engine today. since i cannot find its turbo here can you suggest me any one in australia who sells these ? I was told turbo of will Toyota CT26 OEM will fit in and wanted to confirm this as CT26 is available in my country.

I wanted to also recheck its engine as was told it was rebuilt few months back and used for few months.

I wanted to the mechanic to perform the compression test? How is this compression test done as i wanted to supervise it.. any compression result numbers that i should look for?

Also wanted to know how do i check in radiator for head gaskit leaks

Also wanted to know if i need to ask if he has put sleeves in it or bored the block? Will that makes any difference?

While engine is idling what noise should i watch out for? I was planning to disconnect all accessories i.e. water pump, alternator, power steering pump and listen to the engine idle. What noise should i watch out for?

Thanx
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Follow Up By: Mountain Goat - Thursday, Apr 25, 2013 at 19:23

Thursday, Apr 25, 2013 at 19:23
You won't be disappointed with your 12HT. Great engine.
Now to answer your questions...
- A compression test can be done a few ways. The common way is to take all injectors out and screw in a pressure guage into one cylinder at a time. You turn the key to rotate the engine and the compression will be read on the guage as cylinder pressure.
Now compare the readings. Around 10% variation isn't too bad. Less is best.
The next step is to squirt some engine oil into each cylinder. This temporarily seals the piston rings while you crank the engine over again for another reading.
On your lowest reading cylinder, if the pressure reading increases, it means you were losing pressure past your piston rings, which if a big difference, means an engine rebuild. If the pressure doesnt change then it means you are losing pressure past your valves, which means a cylinder head overhaul.
Another way of checking compression is to do a leak-down test.
This is simply removing each injector again, and screwing in a fitting that is connected to an air compressor with a pressure guage.
You pump in, say, 200psi, and rotate the crankshaft via the harmonic balancer until all valves are closed. Each cylinder should hold pressure. If they don't, simply put your ear to the exhaust to see if it is leaking past the exhaust valve, put your ear near the air filter to see if it's leaking past the inlet valve, and remove your oil filler cap and listen there for rushing air which means your piston rings are not sealing.

For head gasket leaks, you need to warm the engine up so the thermostat is open and you are getting coolant flowing through your radiator. With your radiator cap off, look at the coolant flowing- if there are hundreds of timny bubbles in it, then your head gasket is blown between your cylinder and water jacket- so cylinder pressure is blowing into your cooling system.
If your head gasket is blown between your cylinder and oil gallery, then you can test that by removing youir oil filler cap and starting the engine. Excessive fumey air being blown out is an indication of this.

As for sleeves in the block... every aluminium block engine I know of has cast iron sleeves installed. Tour 12HT is a cast iron block so i'm pretty sure it shouldnt have sleeves. The only way I know of is to remove the cylinder head and see if it has been sleeved. Mosrt rebuilt engines are bored 30thou oversize, and up to 60thou oversize bores with larger pistonms to suit. You can get marginally more power due to larger capacity, but your engine can run warmer due to less cast iron as a heat sink before it reaches the water passages.
Personally, I wouldnt even consider or be worried about cylinder sleeves. If they are fitted and you have good compression then all is good. If they arent fitted and you have good compression, then all is good also.

If you listen to the engine running, leave all accessories connected first. Look for white smoke on start-up- less is best- and it should idle nice and low- around 600rpm.
If the injector pump needs a rebuild (BIG money), then the common way to keep the engine ideling well is to increase the idle revs. So if its idling high, you could have a worn-out injector pump that is being masked up by higher revs.

I hope this helps!
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FollowupID: 787764

Follow Up By: Mountain Goat - Thursday, Apr 25, 2013 at 19:35

Thursday, Apr 25, 2013 at 19:35
As for your turbo, there are an infinite amount of different turbos with different sized compressors, turbines and airflow ratios. Matching a turbo to an engine takes a LOT of research, testing and advice.
My advice to you is to have your factory turbo rebuilt, and you know it will suit your engine perfectly.
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FollowupID: 787766

Reply By: Naveed Merchant - Friday, May 03, 2013 at 13:27

Friday, May 03, 2013 at 13:27
My 12HT engine is finally up and running and planning for test drive shortly and sounds like WOW.. but could not locate its Turbo CT20 from the junkyard and nor don't we get any rebuilt ones here :(

My USA Vendor is asking to provide Turbo number and cant seem to locate it, i assume its mentioned along with the chassis number under the bonnet was wondering if anyone knows its Turbo number along with application information.

AnswerID: 510247

Follow Up By: Naveed Merchant - Friday, May 03, 2013 at 13:29

Friday, May 03, 2013 at 13:29
Apologies its CT26 turbo charger
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