HDJ79R RV

Submitted: Monday, May 06, 2013 at 12:40
ThreadID: 102052 Views:2966 Replies:7 FollowUps:15
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We have a toyota landcruiser and when the vehicle is unloaded the tray sits slightly higher at the rear by 5cm.

However - when you place the canopy on the back and hitch up the van the rear end sags considerable - Could all those tabletop owners give some advise as to a cure for the rear end drop.

The van weighs 1,640 kg unloaded with 150 kg on the hitch,

Airbags, new spring set up or what?



A J
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Reply By: bluefella - Monday, May 06, 2013 at 13:39

Monday, May 06, 2013 at 13:39
G'day AJ
The cruiser springs if they have done a lot of work could need upgrading, do you use weight distribution bars? On tray backs I've owned I always have, to put some weight back on the steer.
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Follow Up By: bluefella - Monday, May 06, 2013 at 13:48

Monday, May 06, 2013 at 13:48
In saying "weight" on the steer maybe better to say apply downward pressure on the steer.
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Follow Up By: A J - Monday, May 06, 2013 at 13:58

Monday, May 06, 2013 at 13:58
bluefella - no I do not use weight distribution bars - just use a hitchmaster DO25 - vehicle has only done 115kms - not heavy work.


A J
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Reply By: Flighty ( WA ) - Monday, May 06, 2013 at 14:35

Monday, May 06, 2013 at 14:35
A J
May help if we can have some more info on your setup.
Do you have an Aluminium tray or standard Toyota supplied tray?
Is your canopy a simple one like mine, pipe & canvas, or is it a 300kg custom jobbie?
My unit used to sag with original tojo suspension system, but am consistently heavy with tools & equipment for trade.
Fitted airbags and improved it considerably.
Then removed original system and fitted Ironman 2" "constant load" lift kit, and now find it sitting and performing very well in all situations, both towing and offroad.
Airbags are now running at 15-20 PSI compared to 45 PSI on original system.
Hope that is of some help to your situation.
Cheers
Flighty

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Follow Up By: A J - Monday, May 06, 2013 at 15:35

Monday, May 06, 2013 at 15:35
Flighty (WA) - the tray is steel and made by a local tray builder - has two tool boxes in front of the wheels with a 100 litre stainless steel water tank between those tool boxes. The spare tyre is also carried in a steel box under the tray behind the wheels.

The canopy is made MW sheets works - aluminium 2100 by 1850 - I would say at least 300kg

Was trying to steer away from air bags if possible.


A J
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Follow Up By: Flighty ( WA ) - Monday, May 06, 2013 at 16:09

Monday, May 06, 2013 at 16:09
A J
Similar set up as to mine but I only have 65 litres between the 2 toolboxes, but it still adds up when you have 300 kg + whatever goes into the canopy, when prepping to travel.
Maybe air bags not needed at all, but well worth talking to reputable suspension suppliers re; an upgrade on your current system.
Maybe worth hooking up van and takin the lot to see them.
But depends also on your location to them as well I guess.
Cheers & Regards
Flighty

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Reply By: Member - Trent H (NSW) - Monday, May 06, 2013 at 14:58

Monday, May 06, 2013 at 14:58
I have a allo tray with a mfi canopy carrying 1 tonne, towing van 2t loaded, air bags with pedders heavy weight suspension. Adjust the sitting with the air bags & take out the chook bounce with v5 hayman reece weight hitch, Unfortunately toyota leave out a leaf for a softer ride, why when we by the utes to carry weight??
AnswerID: 510458

Reply By: Member - Rosco from way back - Monday, May 06, 2013 at 16:03

Monday, May 06, 2013 at 16:03
Mate

Unfortunately the OEM springs are rubbish (in my opinion). We had the same problem and the only solution I was happy with was after market springs/shocks.

Like you I'm not a fan of airbags, too many stories of lighter vehicles coming to grief.
Different story if they are inside a coil spring, but I reckon they have the potential to put too much load where it's not really intended with a leaf sprung vehicle (my opinion only and notwithstanding the fact that's where the bump stops occasionally work).

I had a Sax set-up installed which so far we're happy with, but there are quite a few options to choose from.
AnswerID: 510463

Follow Up By: get outmore - Monday, May 06, 2013 at 16:30

Monday, May 06, 2013 at 16:30
Rosco is right. From someone thqts carried alo of loads in 79s and 75s
The 79 factory springs are crap and cant take a load. After about a year thier stuffed at work and they get replaced aftermarket. ... makes 200% difference
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Follow Up By: A J - Monday, May 06, 2013 at 16:36

Monday, May 06, 2013 at 16:36
Rosco from way back - Had a look at that Sax web site - they look interesting - did you get the full system installed including their springs or just the additional spring on top of your existing springs?


A J
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Follow Up By: Member - Rosco from way back - Monday, May 06, 2013 at 16:45

Monday, May 06, 2013 at 16:45
Full change (springs and shocks) front and rear ... transformed the vehicle.

The thing that poos me off completely was that I had to do it to a brand new vehicle. I whinged and sooked at Toyota, but they really couldn't give a rat's A
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Reply By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Monday, May 06, 2013 at 16:57

Monday, May 06, 2013 at 16:57
Hi AJ,

Trying to compensate for ball weight with heavier springs, air bags, bags inside coils all result in one thing, too much weight over the back axle UNLESS you use a weight distrubution system.

The goal is to spread the weight throughout the outfit thereby maximising stability.
This is the very reason the rest of us use a WDS.


My advice is get a good Weight Distribution System and then see what is happening before you put heavier springs to compensate for the van draw bar weight.

The Eazy Lift brand is gaining favour as they are greasable whereas the Hayman Reese are a dry pivot causing wear and have to be rebuilt from time to time. I have seen some badly worn HR too. This is my experience with them.

Hope this helps,
Cheers, Bruce.
At home and at ease on a track that I know not and
restless and lost on a track that I know. HL.

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Follow Up By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Monday, May 06, 2013 at 17:08

Monday, May 06, 2013 at 17:08
AJ I would go with what Flighty, Trent H, Rosco and Get Outmore have said re standard Tojo suspension if you are consistently carrying a load, that is uprade the suspension.

My comments above mainly apply to ball weight and its effects.

Cheers, Bruce.
At home and at ease on a track that I know not and
restless and lost on a track that I know. HL.

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Follow Up By: A J - Monday, May 06, 2013 at 18:16

Monday, May 06, 2013 at 18:16
Bruce C (NSW) - Bruce I do not think the tow ball weight should have much effect as we also have a prado and when connected to it the rear end does not drop.



A J
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Reply By: Member -Pinko (NSW) - Monday, May 06, 2013 at 18:29

Monday, May 06, 2013 at 18:29
I had Firestone air bags on OEM and started on 25 to 30 psi. then slowly increased to 50 psi to achieve level ride height and the ride would loosen you fillings.
Fitted Sax to the rear and 150 kg Dobinson coils on the front (winch steel bullbar and dual batteries) and Koni's all round.
I to could not be happier transformed the vehicle.
Living is a journey,it depends on where you go !
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Follow Up By: Sludgie W.A - Monday, May 06, 2013 at 18:43

Monday, May 06, 2013 at 18:43
to Pinko and Rosco, I also have had sax suspension on my troopy twice and both times they collapsed and did not perform to their advertising. I would like to know how your setups go after a hard trip.

Sludgie
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Follow Up By: Member - Rosco from way back - Monday, May 06, 2013 at 18:59

Monday, May 06, 2013 at 18:59
Mate

I'll be happy to post my thoughts in a few months (warts and all). We're off on a big adventure in about a month for 2 months. Kimberleys via the Tanami then NT and the Gulf.
Should be enough for a reasonable test.

I'll be happy to let you know how they fared on my return.
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Follow Up By: Member -Pinko (NSW) - Monday, May 06, 2013 at 20:08

Monday, May 06, 2013 at 20:08
Sludgie
I too will post results in August after Hay R. trip.
I did mention your experience to Sax prior to purchase however I still proceeded with fitting them.
Living is a journey,it depends on where you go !
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Follow Up By: A J - Tuesday, May 07, 2013 at 12:10

Tuesday, May 07, 2013 at 12:10
Sludgie - when you said your suspension collapsed did the equaliser bar break the other springs or was it different each time and what did the company say?


A J
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Follow Up By: Sludgie W.A - Tuesday, May 07, 2013 at 19:47

Tuesday, May 07, 2013 at 19:47
Gidday A J, the first set basically straightened out after 3 months and couldn't carry any weight. Sax replaced immediately with the same specifications, however this set also failed to carry any substantial weight and when I queried this Sax told me I had ordered the wrong set and for an extra $800 they could upgrade to a mine pack for me.
The only problem with this is when I ordered for the troopy they had full info on weight, accessories and fuel capacity. On local roads the springs were great but once in the bush the bouncing around or whatever caused them to fail.
As there is no distributor in W.A for them I have no one to take them too so after no reply from Sax I have an almost new set sitting in my shed.

Sludgie
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Reply By: Member - Serendipity(WA) - Monday, May 06, 2013 at 19:16

Monday, May 06, 2013 at 19:16
A whole lot of good advice so far.

For your tray sitting on an angle just check - measure you chassis from the ground and check your tray from the ground that the difference is comparable. Just so you know it is not just a bent tray.

As a owner of the V8 utes I found my rear suspension was sagging after 1 year. I replaced it with a full set front and back including shockies from local manufacturer and supplier in W.A. - West Coast Suspensions. Much cheaper than some high profile brands and now after 5 years it is still great. No affiliation just a happy customer. Full set was about $2000.

Real shame that such a high profile manufacturer of the 'toughest' utes and there are some things that just don't make the grade. I think toyota is slipping a bit. They still charge the top dollar.

Cheers

Serendipity







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Follow Up By: A J - Tuesday, May 07, 2013 at 12:05

Tuesday, May 07, 2013 at 12:05
Serendipity - the chassis and the tray are straight. The 5cm refers to the difference in the height from the back to the front. You see a number of these driving around with the tail down without any load on them. There is still daylight between the springs unloaded indicating that the vehicle has not had much work.

Years ago I had Toyota springs set by an old blacksmith and his opinion was that the steel in the springs was excellent if was just the way they made them. He reset the springs using the old methods heat and hammer.


A J
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