Comment: Solar Power

http://ev-power.com.au/webstore/index.php/12v-lifepo4-batteries/12v-lifepo4-batteries/12v-4-cell-040ah-lfp-battery-module-1.html
Try this link as the batteries are around the $350 mark...cheers

Lithium technology has advanced greatly in the last few years, so there are quite a few brands of 240 volt, MPPT, alternator to battery, dcdc, etc chargers that are selectable for lithium batteries. The charging rate is 14.6 volts, but a very good battery monitoring system with the lithium battery offers the protection needed. I have found EV Power in WA have fairly priced and well put together systems ( no connection).
Phil

I have to admit I was not aware of Li technology advancing to the state it has for 12V systems - but obviously still at a fair cost. I note things like "4 times the life" but at the moment it seems to be (much?) more than 4 times the cost to implement - the main advantage being re-charge time is it ??

I know it probably comes back to quality of manufacture, maybe quality of storage for transport, and other factors very different from putting a couple of these in an RV, but there have been two 747 cargo planes destroyed that were linked to carriage of Lithium batteries, and also overhead locker fires in aircraft as a result - and Lithium fires have to be fought by putting the flames out and then cooling them so they do not re-ignite and not by normal halon type extinguishers. Apparently they are susceptible to internal short circuits that causes this and are still considered "dangerous goods not to be checked in" (source: Australian Flight Safety )

Again I stress this may have a lot to do with quality of manufacture and is applicable to small appliance batteries - hopefully what they are producing for more rugged environments like RV's has advanced to the point of this not being a risk.

Quote -"also require BMS (Battery Management Systems) for individual cell readings and decent battery chargers."

In the different forums I am on there is a lot of harping on about the special monitoring needs of lithium batteries. I would not woor too much about these. Yes in the early days when early experimenters were building their own batteries from individual cells they had to worry about the problem.

These days the BMS is built into the batteries. It's there and you don't see it working. The new battery packs you purchase are ready to go and you need give them no more attention than you should be giving to your lead acid batteries.

It is my understanding that discharging a LIPO4 battery below 90% can reduce its life by about 25% and that discharging to zero can fatally damage the battery.
I think that's why a low voltage cutout is recommended.

Keith, did you not read the Kimberley Kampers link in my my message in FollowUp 4. That was not what Kimberley had gleaned from their studies or their experience.

Peter,

Here's what Kimberley say on Page 9 of their "Amazing Lithium Batteries Guide" E-Book:

"As a guide, if the battery is only discharged by 90% or less,
the number of charging cycles expected for a Lithium battery is
>1500 cycles. If the discharge is consistently less than 80% then
2000 cycles can be expected."

And on Page 12

"Once lithium batteries are fully
discharged, their voltage takes a
sudden nose-dive.
Completely discharging a lithium
battery bank, possibly even once,
may render your entire pack
permanently dead unless you have
added protection.
Inverters and chargers do not yet
come standard with profiles for
Lithium Batteries. Remember, this
is a new and evolving technology,
and not quite yet ready to be “plug
and go”.
There are several Lithium Battery
providers who can offer this.
The Kimberley in-battery controller
is one of these that provides
low voltage cut-out in each and
every battery and high discharge
protection as standard."

The EV-Power site suggests 2,000 cycles at 70% discharge but seems to contradict itself with:

"All lithium Ion batteries require a battery management system (BMS). There is no way around this. There are numerous examples of catastrophic failures where no BMS has been used.
At a minimum a BMS must have the following basic functions:
1) Balance the cells during charge to level the state of charge of all cells in the pack.
2) Protect each cell in the battery from going outside its safe voltage range."

AND

"The 12V series are actually 4 LFP cells in one package. They do not have any management. For systems of more than 12V nominal individual cell management is recommended."

EV Power recommended a Management System for my project, which will have a large LIPO4 battery in a camper. I am trying to learn as I go.

Keith