Submitted: Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 13:05
ThreadID: 102369 Views:2605 Replies:7 FollowUps:10
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I have a 2004 3 ltr patrol diesel wagon ,190000klms and is getting very smokey but not really black, at morning starts.
Am a bit worried that this year i may be a nusiance in caravan parks.
Gave it a bottle of injector clean recently but that made no difference.
Is this normal or is there a fix for it.
thank you ,
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Reply By: Member - Ian H (NSW) - Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 14:30

Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 14:30
We had a petrol Volvo that was doing that. I took it to a guy who connected it to a machine that put something in the fuel before the injectors and ran it at a fast idle for 30-45 min. It cleans the upper cylinder area including the piston rings and the walls of the cylinders. Bingo, oil consumption stopped and, of course so did the smoking. The car had done about 160k when it was done and we sold it ar 220k with no sign of smoke.
I also use a flushing oil product made by CEM (Cost Efficient Maintenance) in my diesel landcruiser at each oil change and at 260k it is smoke free. Plus, I used 2 stroke outboard oil in the fuel at 200:1.
Check them out to see if you think they are of use to you.
Good luck, Ian
AnswerID: 511661

Follow Up By: Member - Murray M2 - Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 17:07

Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 17:07
I have just had my turbo replaced and the guy also changed my glow plugs as My ute was hard to start in the mornings and also blew smoke, problem solved. He also said dont bother getting genuine as the cheapies last just as long. less tham half price
FollowupID: 789953

Follow Up By: Ross M - Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 18:58

Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 18:58
Ian H
What you have just said about the Volvo and that you use CEM cleaner points to the fact you have either used the wrong oil or it is being asked to be in the engine too long.

The engine oil is designed to keep the engine clean inside, minimize burning of oil and it should also provide a good sliding seal for the ring area.

You should never have to get one cleaned and never have to resort to CEM cleaners. A world branded oil for the landcruiser, like Mobil delvac MX or Caltex Delo should be all you need and when the engine is worn out it should be still clean inside.

If your oil IS good quality then the use of CEM is totally unnecessary.

Ross M
FollowupID: 789963

Follow Up By: fence - Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 19:16

Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 19:16
Talk about confused.
Thank you for the replies.
Ian, i am no petrol head but do have the patrol regularly serviced by nissan. Consequently the oil should not be a problem.This started about a year ago and they said normal,no worry.
Today had major service and they were no real help except to say that at about 200000 injectors could be the problem and started quoting figures of about $250 per injecter plus labour.but said leave for time being.
On holidays I am probably more worried about the people in the tent behind me than the actual vehicle??
In the dentists surgery about 2 months ago i read about CHEM and have had it in the back of my mind.The add reads fantastic. BUT???
Does anyone else have an opinion??
thank you.
FollowupID: 789965

Follow Up By: Member - Ian H (NSW) - Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 20:00

Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 20:00
Ross M,
You don't know me, my cars or the history so keep your pontifications for someone who might be interested because this forum is for people who have something they feel is helpful and positive. You are acting like a grumpy old know all.

Now Bruce,
The fact is diesels leave deposits in the oil and not all deposits are removed during an oil change and build up over time. My L/Cruiser has its oil changed at the correct interval but when I put new oil in it would be BLACK before I could check the level after a short run(1 Min). After using CEM the oil stays clean for about 1000kms and that tells me there was rubbish left behind after the non CEM oil change.
I suggest you call the CEM boss, whose name escapes me, and have a chat. CEM is a damn site cheaper as a first step and has no downside.
FollowupID: 789968

Follow Up By: wozzie (WA) - Friday, May 24, 2013 at 01:27

Friday, May 24, 2013 at 01:27
I'm with Murray M2

Have over the past few years been having the same problems with mine. Just at the initial start in the morning, particularly when its cool/cold.

Was a simple matter of replacing the glow plugs and problem solved.

Usually lasts for about another 70 ~ 80,000 klms before needed again.

Mine is a Ford Courier 2.5 TDi

Dreamin' agin

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FollowupID: 789994

Follow Up By: Ross M - Friday, May 24, 2013 at 18:44

Friday, May 24, 2013 at 18:44
Ian H
At 200,000km in my turbo HJ61 landcruiser, the oil would remain clear for around 3000km and then gradually darken and at 5000 I could still see the dipstick through the oil film, However at 10,000km the oil was becoming black as expected.

When removing the rocker cover for valve adjustment the inside of my engine was CLEAN and there was no dirty buildup of anything. Nothing to CEM away. It never used very much oil at all if taken to 10,000km as it was monitored regularly.

You are right, I don't know your vehicles or history but if it doesn't stay clean for long it hasn't been operated on oil which performs it's duties properly.

Ross M
FollowupID: 790040

Reply By: Rockape - Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 17:43

Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 17:43
if it is white smoke you can just about bet it is your glow plugs. Easy to test if they are working or not with a multimeter. You can check to see if you have voltage at each plug from the relay and you can check the resistance of each glow plug as long as the plug is disconnected electrically from the other plugs.

AnswerID: 511675

Follow Up By: mountainman - Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 18:50

Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 18:50
dont forget the buzz bar also shows those issues.
but generaly car wont start.
FollowupID: 789962

Reply By: Axle - Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 18:45

Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 18:45
G/Day mate, ..With out sounding critical its a known fact that these engines are a bit sus in a few areas, IMHO, its sounds like its starting to overfuel which can lead to a whole aray of disasters, If it was mine i would check out the Nissan forum, and get the right info there, it may well be just a minor issue at the moment but needs to be adressed real quick before things turn ugly..all the best with it.

Cheers Axle.
AnswerID: 511676

Reply By: GimmeeIsolation - Friday, May 24, 2013 at 00:00

Friday, May 24, 2013 at 00:00
Injectors can dribble while sitting there so on start you have diesel in the chamber.
Injectors are also supposed to be replaced, they are not something that lasts the life of the vehicle even though it seems from being behind a lot of diesels on the road that the owner thinks otherwise or does not give a rats about the plume behind them.
If you want better economy, more power and a cleaner start, get a set of exchange injectors.
When I have tested Injectors on the bench, when they are worn they do not have a good spray pattern of small droplets, some dribble, and some have too large droplets for a good burn and do not "crack off" at the correct pressure.
I am not into Nissans so cannot help with a supplier but a bit of googling and get a set yourself for the mechanic even though it is not too hard a job to change out with a manual and common sense.
I would not just get the cheapest set you can find myself, hunt around and you will get a reputable set for a good price, maybe overseas.
Fuel pumps are also another item that diesel owners think lasts forever, but of course, they don't.
Depends on how long you will keep your car and whether you give a rats about people following you and the environment. Fuel getting pushed through those small orifices wears the injector causing the problems over time.
All the best.
AnswerID: 511705

Reply By: GimmeeIsolation - Friday, May 24, 2013 at 00:13

Friday, May 24, 2013 at 00:13
Have just read above about this "CEM" or whatever.
Diesel Engine Oil is supposed to go black, it is removing the crud that develops during combustion that gets past the rings and holds it in suspension so when you drop the oil, out it goes.
Give up on all these products and just do the right thing by your engine the way it was designed for.
Anybody want some you-beaut Ralph Sarich fuel pills that you pop in your tank giving you more power and longer range out of your tank ??? Honest, they do !!!
AnswerID: 511706

Follow Up By: Batt's - Friday, May 24, 2013 at 20:10

Friday, May 24, 2013 at 20:10
Just checking are you saying CEM products don't work ? I bought a 4.2ltr diesel patrol a couple of yrs ago with 350,000km after a few regular oil changes I decided to try CEM engine oil flush.These motors hold 10.2lts so I put a measured 9lts of oil allowing room for the sludge the CEM cleaner is suppose to remove they claim up to 3lts in some motors. Well wasn't I surprised when I got 10.5lts back out when I drained it. The previous owner might have been slack with their services but I'm glad their product done what they claimed it would do and clean the built up sludge out. I put a friend onto it and he go 1ltr of build up out of his troop carrier.
FollowupID: 790047

Follow Up By: Member - Ian H (NSW) - Friday, May 24, 2013 at 22:11

Friday, May 24, 2013 at 22:11
RossM, Don't bother reading any further here.

Hi Batts,
Thanks for taking the time to post about CEM. I frankly find it hard to be interested in replying to knowalls. The stuff does work and diesel engines do build up sludge over time no matter how well you change the oil.
The fact that the dipstick stays cleaner longer tells you that the stuff works but knowalls try to tell you it is not necessary. Let us all just drive our 4x4's the way Toyota made them. Lets not imrove the suspension, wheels,tyres shocks. After all the car was perfect from the factory!
FollowupID: 790060

Follow Up By: Ross M - Friday, May 24, 2013 at 22:43

Friday, May 24, 2013 at 22:43
I think you utterly missed the point.
It was never said CEM didn't work as you claim was said.
It is just if you use good quality oil there is never any build up of crap for CEM to be necessary.
On some poorly maintained engines it loosens and feed the crap through the main and big end bearings

A good quality detergent oil cleans and hold crap in suspension so it is removed from the engine.
In suitably serviced engines I have rebuilt, although worn out, there has not been any build up requiring a CEM treatment.

PS Thank you for mentioning I am a know all, I have apparently been officially upgraded.

"Experience is something I had before I needed it" by observing the mistakes of others.

Ross M.
FollowupID: 790070

Reply By: Bazooka - Friday, May 24, 2013 at 12:37

Friday, May 24, 2013 at 12:37
As has already been suggested, test the glow plugs first then get the injectors tested. Visible smoke is often a sign of injectors needing a benchtop clean or replacement and any decent diesel mechanic can tell you that. If it's injectors your fuel consumption will also increase marginally. Much (much) less likely, but if you're in a cold climate area it could be time to add some heating oil to your fuel a la the alpine diesel mix.

$250 per injector - lucky you don't have a CRD.
AnswerID: 511746

Reply By: howesy - Friday, May 24, 2013 at 22:03

Friday, May 24, 2013 at 22:03
sell it quick,,,, another grenade in the making :-)
AnswerID: 511785

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