store 20l full (18l) jerry cans of petrol on their sides

Submitted: Friday, May 31, 2013 at 05:12
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please could members advise me if they believe is safe to do this?

furthermore, if well secured & protected could fuel jerrys be stored on their side attached to the under side of the camper

all advice appreciated

regards
Adrian
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Reply By: Roughasguts - Friday, May 31, 2013 at 05:21

Friday, May 31, 2013 at 05:21
Are they designed to be put on there side full of petrol. ?

If the answer is No then expect them to leak around the filler with expansion.

Cheers.
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Reply By: Member - Fred B (ex-NT) - Friday, May 31, 2013 at 07:57

Friday, May 31, 2013 at 07:57
Gooday,
I would never put a plastic one on its side, but the steel ones are fine. Do not over fill them, you need the expansion space. Only ever put 20l in a 20l jerry. Done thousands of km with them like that and never had a problem.
regards
Fred B
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Follow Up By: Member - Fred B (ex-NT) - Friday, May 31, 2013 at 08:01

Friday, May 31, 2013 at 08:01
Sorry, pressed wrong button, should add, I be careful about storing fuel out of sight and where it could get damaged by road debris rocks etc. Not clear on where you be storing it under a camper???
regards
Fred B
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Follow Up By: adrianjt - Friday, May 31, 2013 at 12:27

Friday, May 31, 2013 at 12:27
thanks Fred, my thoughts were to build a steel & timber frame (foam lined?) welded to campers main steel frame, immediately in front of axle. The jerrys would be enclosed except the rear facing entry 'slot'. There is 60cm clearance. Axle has 30cm of clearance

The 4 bike rack is on the back, the gas & misc toolbox is on drawbar. We have a (raised) nissan elgrand SWD (soft wheel drive-4wd, no low range) on petrol&gas. We dont go off road. Family of 6. Planning white cliffs/birdsville/plenty hwy/olgas/broken hill in july/aug

Why not plastic (on their side) if secure & protected?
Appreciate your advice
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Reply By: Axle - Friday, May 31, 2013 at 08:21

Friday, May 31, 2013 at 08:21
Mate carrying petrol in jerries is a relativley high risk thing in a vehicle when stored upright (the proper way), on there side under the camper,one small leak, one small spark ,and it may well be the the first camper to land on Mars, with you not far behind!



Cheers Axle.
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Friday, May 31, 2013 at 09:13

Friday, May 31, 2013 at 09:13
Most eloquently put Axle (:-)).

I would be hard pressed to come up with a more dangerous location or orientation for a petrol jerry can whether full or empty. As far as the legality goes...hmm, not sure how the constabulary or an insurance company would react in an accident situation.

Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: member - mazcan - Friday, May 31, 2013 at 11:26

Friday, May 31, 2013 at 11:26
hi
it is a risk just carrying petrol in a jerrycan on its base but they are made for this and used by many without problems providing that they cant chaf together bounce around or be squashed by other items in your load
but imho attemping to carry a jerrycan laying on it's side and by that I take it you mean its largest side not the edge you will be subjecting the walls of the container to a huge amount of flexing there-by acting as a pumping action which will have a very detrimental effect on its strength
I haven't any doubt that on any bumps corregations etc will cause it to split or burst open to me you will be setting the stage for an expensive disaster
to put them on there sides under a camper trailer out of site or even laying them in the back of a ute or trailer body in full view is not on for me either
if you must carry them then upright on there base and tied down is the only sensible way
do it the right way and enjoy the trip rather than leaving home with a time bomb on board
cheers
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Follow Up By: adrianjt - Friday, May 31, 2013 at 13:08

Friday, May 31, 2013 at 13:08
I appreciate your thoughts, and agree that chaffing/bouncing etc would likely end badly. Protected and secure, done properly would mitigate the likelihood of a disaster imo. Out of sight is a very real concern. Thanks for your post.

ps We also have two wheels on the roof & I dont want anything else there.
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Reply By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Friday, May 31, 2013 at 09:24

Friday, May 31, 2013 at 09:24
We solved the problem. Got a long range tank fitted.

What's wrong with going down the same path.

Phil
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Follow Up By: Member - Howard (ACT) - Friday, May 31, 2013 at 12:09

Friday, May 31, 2013 at 12:09
Phil,
long range tanks arent necessarly the be all and end all.
I had a 165 litre auxilary in my petrol 80 series(255 total) and still needed up to 3 jerrys for some trips
my current 79 series (Diesel] has 180 litres with 2 tanks and I will take an extra 5 jerrycans into the north simpson this winter.
these will lay on their side in a frame lined with carpet under the tray as they did on a madagan trip several years ago.
sometimes you need that 300 odd litres to get there and back with a saftey margin.
I wouldnt have a vehicle without a long range tank but they are too expensive for someone who may only do 1 big trip and gerrycans are the only other safe option.
regards
Howard
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Friday, May 31, 2013 at 14:54

Friday, May 31, 2013 at 14:54
Yep That is true Howard. But it is a lot safer than stuck on the outside of the car where if you have a bingle it could be disastrous. But then again it costs heaps more as well.

It did for us though. We ended up with 215 litres and a 55 litres of water in a part of the long ranger one.

And now we have just put a dual carrier on the back with a twin jerry can carrier on the right hand side. We bent the car and it was cheaper than fitting all new factory parts. And don't you dare say anything. We may just put water in them. 215 litres did us easily for the Simpson last year. And it will be fine for the Canning as well.

Phil
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Follow Up By: Member - Howard (ACT) - Friday, May 31, 2013 at 20:12

Friday, May 31, 2013 at 20:12
Phil,
no problem with putting fuel in rear carriers from my perspective ,I had a rear jc carrier on 2 previous vehicles,as long as not on main roads . you are unlucky if you mate runs up your rear end when in the bush but always a chance some will get you when theres more traffic around.
cheers
Howard
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Friday, May 31, 2013 at 21:04

Friday, May 31, 2013 at 21:04
Strange attitude. In my mind if it's not safe out of the bush then why is it okay in the bush.

Can't go along with that thinking mate.

Phil
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Follow Up By: dermie66 - Saturday, Jun 01, 2013 at 08:24

Saturday, Jun 01, 2013 at 08:24
Howard

your profile indicates you can carry 5 jerry cans under the tray with an undertray water tank. Any chance of a photo to show how it's set up?

Cheers
Dermie
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Follow Up By: Bruce-n-Bundi - Saturday, Jun 01, 2013 at 10:56

Saturday, Jun 01, 2013 at 10:56
Not a strange attitude at all, just being responsible.

Not much chance of getting rear ended in the bush compared to driving in the city.

Oh I guess you could back into a tree in the bush.
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Follow Up By: SDG - Saturday, Jun 01, 2013 at 11:51

Saturday, Jun 01, 2013 at 11:51
Years ago (i'm talking 60+) it was standard pratice for trucks to have 40gallon drums strapped to the sides of the truck for fuel. As these were primarily petrol, when these were involved in an accident, there was often an almighty boom.
My grandfather, and two uncles died in such an accident before I was born.
Current tanks are still mounted to the side, obviously made better, but at least being diesel, there is less chance of the bang factor. Just an environmental one.
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Follow Up By: Member - Howard (ACT) - Sunday, Jun 02, 2013 at 17:01

Sunday, Jun 02, 2013 at 17:01
Phil,
Bruce n Bundi nailed it in one
not as many people in the bush and far less idiots who are unknown to you so chance of gettig bingled almost miniscule.
Dermie ,
the water tank is mounted under the front of the trayon the drivers side and rear of it is well in front of xmember that goes above diff.
to fit the gerry cans I have to remove split rim which is my second spare from under tray and put it in the canopy with main spare.
I then have a piece of 16mm chipboard which goes in on top of spare wheel rack above rear tank.I then put a wire basket made fron 2" square mesh and lined with carpet on top of the board. 3 gerries fit between chassis rails of tray, if laid on their side and parrallel with chassis rails, another 2 gerries fit across behind them just inside rear door of tyre rack . I had to relocate the door back about 2 inches so the 5 cans fitted behind the xmember above the diff.I have strips of foam that go between cans to stop them rubbing and also jam a layer of rubbermats on top to stop cans bouncing
the fit is so close i didnt even have to tie them down for the trip across madigan line.
dont have any photos but willl be going on trip in next month and will take some when i refit. just PM me so i have an address.

I also have a rack for a single gerry on each side behind the mudguards and in front of taillights.
cheers
Howard
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Sunday, Jun 02, 2013 at 18:28

Sunday, Jun 02, 2013 at 18:28
Guys I really do not care where you put it.

Whatever.

Phil
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Sunday, Jun 02, 2013 at 19:38

Sunday, Jun 02, 2013 at 19:38
oops The site bombed out. I was trying to say.

No worries. Okay

Phil
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Reply By: garrycol - Friday, May 31, 2013 at 11:53

Friday, May 31, 2013 at 11:53
I have two vehicles with OEM mounts for jerry cans under the body. One has the jerry laying on its back with the filler at the top and the other has the jerry laying on its side (X side). Seals need to be in good condition and no more than 20l in them (preferrably) less so that there is an expansion air chamber.

There have been no issues.

Garry
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Follow Up By: adrianjt - Friday, May 31, 2013 at 12:51

Friday, May 31, 2013 at 12:51
Thanks Garry, needed that!

What I think I'm reading (or wanting to read?), if secure & protected, with good seals (be they plastic or steel) it will be no more dangerous than carrying petrol in an upright jerry can.

cheers

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Follow Up By: garrycol - Friday, May 31, 2013 at 18:23

Friday, May 31, 2013 at 18:23
Yes but your gear needs to be in good nick. Last week I filled up the jerry that goes in my vehicle where it lays on its side - drip, drip, drip. Took it out and checked the seal and little bit of dirt was on the seal - once removed no issues. In this position you know if there is an issue straight away - if that jerry had been stored upright inside the car it would have probably dribbled out with each bump until the smell was noticed.

Like all mounting brackets - steel to steel contact (plastic to steel as well) will wear them through quickly so all my brackets and mounts are lined with thin high density foam (clark rubber) so there is no metal to metal contact.

Garry
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Reply By: cookie1 - Friday, May 31, 2013 at 13:10

Friday, May 31, 2013 at 13:10
I have a good carrying capacity, 273L, but always take a 20L gerry with me just in case, OK I'm talking diesel so not quite so bad as petrol but.. I carry this on its back with the opening into the air and figure that with the additional surface area it has more weight displacement and I thoroughly tie it down so it cannot bounce.

Additionally I carry 2 more gerry with water in the in the same position and never had any issues, across the Simpson, Cape or Canning.

Hope this gives you a bit more info that your looking for

Cheers
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Reply By: SDG - Friday, May 31, 2013 at 16:52

Friday, May 31, 2013 at 16:52
Just out of curiosity, whats the difference between a jerry can under a vehicle, compared to a normal fuel tank? A normal tank can still get hit by rocks and get a hole in them.
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Friday, May 31, 2013 at 18:28

Friday, May 31, 2013 at 18:28
SDG,

Not sure what you drive but my 75 series Cruiser, besides having the tanks made of quite heavy gauge metal, also have bash plates under them made of about 2 mm thick material. I would have to have the whole weight of the vehicle concentrated in one spot to put a hole through both.

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Follow Up By: SDG - Friday, May 31, 2013 at 18:39

Friday, May 31, 2013 at 18:39
Yeah mine has bash plates as well, at least the current one. Previous one did not as it was an aftermarket. But, if original poster was making up containers to put them in, would this not also act as a bash plate?
Having never cut a tank open, I have no idea how thick the metal actually is.
I have heard of them getting holes from rocks, but never seen it
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Friday, May 31, 2013 at 22:27

Friday, May 31, 2013 at 22:27
Yeah, fair call, but if the guy is going to make or have made a properly designed and fitted protection container for his jerries why not have a proper tank made with a 12v transfer pump, filler and vents and protected by bash plates like under most 4WD's. That way he won't have to remove the cans to top up his vehicle and the chance of a faulty cap seal is eliminated.
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Follow Up By: rumpig - Saturday, Jun 01, 2013 at 09:13

Saturday, Jun 01, 2013 at 09:13
If he builds a heavy duty bash plate like it seemed to read to me he was going to do, then i can't see it being a lot of differance to having a fuel tank under your vehicle. the main differance would be the possibilty of the cans moving around in the holder and possibly rubbing through, come up with a solution to that issue and it's much the same as a having a car fuel tank under your vehicle IMHO.
if your going to be making all this stuff up Adrian, why not get a hold of a fuel tank from another vehicle that will fit in the space and make it just like a car set up? there'd be plenty of tanks around from people who have chucked a long range tank in their fourbies over the years...i have one sitting under my house and i'm sure plenty of others would do also.
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Follow Up By: adrianjt - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 11:43

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 11:43
I think this a good idea, thanks! Adrian
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Reply By: adrianjt - Friday, May 31, 2013 at 19:30

Friday, May 31, 2013 at 19:30
so there i was digging useful items up and having a go with the above, looking around for an old red steel jerry that lives in the shed, & what should stare me in the face, the steel outboard tank. surely after rinsing any residual 2 stroke out this is a better solution...?
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Follow Up By: Member - Howard (ACT) - Friday, May 31, 2013 at 20:01

Friday, May 31, 2013 at 20:01
the residual 2 stroke would be the least of your worries especially if you were filling with petrol..
any boat tank I have ever seem would only be constructed from metal less than half as thick as that used in a gerry can.
boat tanks sit inside boats not exposed to rocks etc.

cheers
howard
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Reply By: Bob Y. - Qld - Friday, May 31, 2013 at 20:09

Friday, May 31, 2013 at 20:09
Adrian,

Much depends on the quality of the plastic jerricans you have, or are going to use.

We used to use black Rheem jerricans, when we were mustering(for bike fuel), and they were very robust, and often took a real hiding. Often they wouldn't get tied securely and would be bounced about in the back of the ute, being assaulted by motor bikes,rolls of barb wire and other assorted nasties.

As for storing under your camper that's your call. Whether you get to Mars, as Axle said is questionable. You should at least get to the International Space Station....just joking.

Good luck with the trip,

Bob.

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Can't remember most of it.

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Follow Up By: adrianjt - Saturday, Jun 01, 2013 at 02:38

Saturday, Jun 01, 2013 at 02:38
extremely valid point, I will test seals thoroughly, thanks!
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Reply By: Member - Andrew & Jen - Friday, May 31, 2013 at 21:07

Friday, May 31, 2013 at 21:07
Hullo Adrian

Putting aside for a moment the wisdom of jerry cans on their side under the camper, how does what you are planning to do fit within the Elgrand's GVM and GCM?

With a gas conversion, 6 people, 2 spares on the roof, etc, plus a well loaded camper, you might be getting close or even over.

Cheers
Andrew
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Follow Up By: locked hilux - Friday, May 31, 2013 at 22:08

Friday, May 31, 2013 at 22:08
think he has a good point here if you have all that think of wait your car doesnt sound like it has a high tow rate and to be honest the less stuff you take the less fuel you use cut back a bit and you might save enough to not need them.
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Follow Up By: locked hilux - Friday, May 31, 2013 at 22:10

Friday, May 31, 2013 at 22:10
thinking of wieght more weight more fuel less wieght less fuel
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Follow Up By: adrianjt - Saturday, Jun 01, 2013 at 02:39

Saturday, Jun 01, 2013 at 02:39
GVM very valid, I am going to post a new thread, thanks!
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Reply By: Member - DingoBlue(WA) - Sunday, Jun 02, 2013 at 23:03

Sunday, Jun 02, 2013 at 23:03
Have carried plastic Jerries on their side for many thousand of Km with no problems,
Metal Jerries are seam welded on sides as well as ends, so no difference. Only area of concern is seal on filler. Obviously if the seal is not good and Jerry leaks, then you need to store upright, replace seals, or buy some new Jerrys. Don't fill completely as you need to allow for some expansion.
Always cushion Jerries with old carpet or something similar to avoid abrasion. Location under C/T maybe problematic if exposed to stone damage but if well protected then it doesn' t matter where they are stored.
Issues regarding collisions are really a non event.
Now wait for the armchair experts comments!!
Rather a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!

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