Fog Lights

Submitted: Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 10:03
ThreadID: 102564 Views:2688 Replies:15 FollowUps:52
This Thread has been Archived
G'day Folks

The most recent NRMA Open Road, and a recent pamphlet from the ACT government registration agency, both state that using fog lights in other other than fog conditions is illegal.

This apparently includes the fog lights that come as standard on most current new model cars. In ignorance of the law, I had been using these lights (on an i30) as a substitute for headlights during daytime for highway driving.

I can apprciate that in the days of foglights being an add-on accessory mounted between headlights that they might have led other drivers to assume a narrower vehicle approaching in heavy fog conditions, but I'm struggling to understand why the current design/placement/intensity of manufacturer placed foglights should be illegal for use in the daylight.

Can someone enlighten me? Thanks.

Cheers
John
Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: Shaker - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 10:36

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 10:36
This may help you .Australian Design Rule 76/00

AnswerID: 512431

Follow Up By: Member - John G - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 11:03

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 11:03
Thanks Shaker

I read through it, but it's more to do with technical specs of the lights, and doesn't really refer to the use of "daytime running lights".

You've motivated me to do some more searching myself, but I'm just wondering whether it is a law that has not kept pace with desighn.

Cheers
John
0
FollowupID: 790789

Follow Up By: garrycol - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 14:50

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 14:50
But fog lights and daytime running lights are different type of lights covered by different rules - the fact that you use fog lights as DRLs is irrelevant and you have to follow the fog light rules - you do appreciate that fog lights not used in fog are termed "wanker lights".

Garry
2
FollowupID: 790835

Follow Up By: Member - John G - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 15:23

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 15:23
Yeah righto Garry

I appreciate the different rules, I appreciate that I have to abide by the law, and I can handle being called a wanker, but can you explain to me, using an explanation other than "it's the law", why the mickey mouse fog lights on my i30 are any different than headlights when used in the daytime? It's probably the case that the manufacturer's fog lights on some cars are very effective for that purpose, but on some vehicles I think they may be pretty much a cosmetic design feature.

I'll change my behaviour because I'll choose not to break the law, but I'd still like to know the reason for the law. If it's potential glare, and lack of uniform placement and intensity, then OK.

Cheers
John
0
FollowupID: 790846

Follow Up By: Shaker - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 15:27

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 15:27
I doubt if anybody here can answer your question.
Why don't you ask the relevant authority in your State?
1
FollowupID: 790848

Follow Up By: Member - John G - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 15:31

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 15:31
Yeah Shaker, I'm doing that.
0
FollowupID: 790850

Follow Up By: Member - Fab72 (Paradise SA) - Wednesday, Jun 05, 2013 at 06:31

Wednesday, Jun 05, 2013 at 06:31
One notable difference is that headlights can be adjusted to minimize glare to other road users, where as fog lights, mounted in the front fascia generally do not have any means of adjustment.

A small altercation with a kerb or fixed object can put the fascia out of kilter, hence affecting your fog light adjustment.

For a headlight to go out of adjustment, the impact would have to be more substantial than a parking knock.

I'm not suggesting this is the lawful reason, but it may be something to consider.

Fab.
0
FollowupID: 790959

Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Wednesday, Jun 05, 2013 at 08:28

Wednesday, Jun 05, 2013 at 08:28
And just to throw a spanner in the works, ours in the ARB bar can be adjusted up and down. I fixed mine last week after getting the new bar fitted.

Phil
0
FollowupID: 790961

Reply By: Ross M - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 10:44

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 10:44
John G
The "so called fog lights aren't really fog lights, as shining white light into a fog is a useless thing to do. Just creates a big white wall in front.

The lights modern vehicles have fitted low down are called fog lights for some reason.
All I have seen do not have a cut off beam pattern to prevent glare as do low beam head lights and many use the glary ones.

Dunnydoor drivers never seem to have them switched off and blind oncoming drivers. They also have them on at night, so if they don't see something in the headlights then they definitely see what they are about to hit because the road immediately in front is well lit.
The driver may dip the headlights but the glare lights are still on.
Dunnydoor vehicles NEED these lights as one headlight is usually stuffed anyway same as the regulation one tail light faulty.

Unless the beam is below the fog and is a colour, usually yellow, or if white and has a cut beam they can't be classed as FOG lights. The Yellow taints the fog and to ssome degree clarifies objects hidden in the fog and also allows oncoming drivers to see colour and position rather than a wall of white.

Everyone seems to call them fog lights but they aren't fog lights at all, switch them off in fog and use low beam for better vision IF you don't have yellow projected forward.

John, you must have seen how the glare comes from other vehicle lights and you have been driving around with yours glaring too!

AnswerID: 512432

Follow Up By: Member - John G - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 11:12

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 11:12
G'day Ross

I agree with your questioning whether they are truly fog lights, but I don't agree re glare during the daytime.

First, I understand that there is research to show that it is good, safe, practice to have headlights on during the day for highway driving. My observation is that on uneven surfaces there can be intermittent glare from oncoming vehicles that have headlights on (they are probably on high beam), but not from the close to the ground "fog lights".

So, no argument from me regarding probable lack of effectiveness in fog, but without real evidence, I'd argue that the "fog lights" provide the safety feature of headlights on during the day.

Cheers
John
0
FollowupID: 790792

Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 12:05

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 12:05
John

I think Ross is referring to those lights that are not focused down "under the fog" and in fact are straight at the oncoming cars. Especially the ones that have been changed to a brighter globe. They also don't have lenses like those in headlights that direct the light away from oncoming drivers and off to the side or actually down. Just plain old low wattage driving lights if the truth was known.

Phil
0
FollowupID: 790805

Follow Up By: KenInPerth - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 14:22

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 14:22
Phill and All

No idea about why the law, and I can agree with you that during the day it is probably not an issue and nothing wrong with having them on, but during night in the metro and major highway driving I find them a real pain in the a**e. Maybe I am worse as I have become older, but then I was old when they started to happen as a common fitting.

Isn't this discussion part of the reason they started calling them "driving lights" rather than fog lights - did different rules apply to one and the other ??

It seems like there is a competition out there now to see who can put on the biggest brightest "driving lights" - and now cars are practically driving around with 4 headlights.

What is starting to annoy me even more now is that, just like the car that has been in a prang and the repairers did not bother to re-adjust the headlight (you know - the one that shines straight in your face on low beam), I am now seeing the odd "driving light" shining straight in my face because something has not been adjusted properly.

Then you get the cars now with "4 headlights" with one headlight out and the opposite driving light out - trying to work out at times what is coming towards you is part of the fun of all this.

Excluding the responsible people who are aware they have these lights on the car and know how to use them, my theory using the old 80 / 20 rule is that 80% of the people have no idea they have them on, and those that do are bloody ignorant or think it looks "cool" or are just too lazy/stupid to turn them off. Yes sure everyone makes the odd mistake at times like not turning them off, or not dipping your high beam, but not in the numbers we seem to see every night nowadays.

Just like we tend to flash people with high beam on, maybe we need a new code of flashing people with fog lights on at night ??

0
FollowupID: 790830

Follow Up By: Member - bbuzz (NSW) - Tuesday, Jun 04, 2013 at 09:37

Tuesday, Jun 04, 2013 at 09:37
Why do many Dunnydoors have one tail light out? It seemed to start with the VL's.

bill
Bill B

Member
My Profile  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 790909

Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Tuesday, Jun 04, 2013 at 09:52

Tuesday, Jun 04, 2013 at 09:52
Bill

Aren't those single bright red "tail lights" on the drivers side meant to show which side the driver sits on. In Europe it is now very common to have a lot of both left and right hand cars on the same roads. I think that they come on automatically with the front fog lights.

One of those damned things distracted a bloke long enough on a lovely clear day to rear end us. It was, past tense, a lovely until then.

Phil
0
FollowupID: 790911

Reply By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 10:47

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 10:47
I think I understand John's post. He is not after the actual regulation or law. He and I would like to know the "why is it so" behind the law.

I also would like to know what is wrong with having my fog lights on in the daytime?

Phil
AnswerID: 512434

Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 11:22

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 11:22
Gday,
Probably nothing wrong with it at all. Just another stupid law.
I think they make laws like this to stop people having spot lights mounted as fog lights and not being connected to your dipper switch and all other scenarios people come up with. Rather that writing an encyclopedia on combinations and regulationsfor fog lights they probably just wrote a rule saying turn them off when you don't need them?????

But why not leave your head lights on and fog lights off and only use your fog lights in fog?
0
FollowupID: 790794

Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 11:26

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 11:26
That doesn't answer my question Hairy

Phil
0
FollowupID: 790795

Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 11:36

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 11:36
No?
Question 1- Why is it so..........because its easier to make a blanket rule than rules for every situation possibly?

Question 2- whats wrong with having my fog lights on in the daytime?..........probably nothing if your lights aren't too bright or angled too high other than being against the law.
0
FollowupID: 790799

Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 11:51

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 11:51
Hairy

I asked a simple question. And your answers are of no help at all. I can only see an ignorant contempt for the law makers.

Please give me the reason behind the regulation that prohibits the use of fog lights in the daytime. Or go and bother someone else.

Phil
0
FollowupID: 790803

Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 12:17

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 12:17
I thought I had given a simply reply to a simple question?????

So what's with the personal attack "Or go and bother someone else."
If your not prepared to hear other peoples opinions don't ask questions on a public forum, If you want a lawyers view on a law, go ask one.
Go take your Happy Pills!
1
FollowupID: 790808

Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 12:34

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 12:34
Okay I will put it a different way.

You said "because its easier to make a blanket rule than rules for every situation possibly?" What situations are you talking about? You did not give any scientific, physical, safety or social "situation" why they made the law.

Having fog lights on in the daytime was just a part of the law. It was an example of what I was after. Whats wrong with having my lights on in the daytime. What was their reasoning?

I wasn't after any opinion of the law. I wanted to know why we have to have the law.

And don't say money, which seems to be your most popular answer.

Phil
0
FollowupID: 790812

Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 13:11

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 13:11
Do fog lights have high and low beam?
If not what is the maximum wattage?
Do they have to be connected to the hi/low switch?
How do you know when they are on during the day?
What type of reflectors/diffusers should they have?
What is the maximum projected height? etc etc.......
If there aren't already regulations written on all of this already (which I haven't bothered to check up on and don't plan to)
people may be driving around with 200watt pencil beams on as fog lights in the day time not even knowing that they are on.......IF this was the case, it may have been someone's idea to make a rule that fog lights cant be used in the day time. Hence the reason for making such a law.
There are lots of laws made because people are doing the wrong thing and quite often the rules don't seem fair to everyone, its just life, but don't get shitty with me just because you cant see it or understand the explanation of MY opinion!

If you don't want opinions don't ask for them and don't tell me how to answer your questions eg"And don't say money, which seems to be your most popular answer. "

And since when as money been my popular answer? I haven't even mentioned money?????
0
FollowupID: 790818

Follow Up By: 515 - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 13:36

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 13:36
PJR I don't want to get involved in you discussion with Hairy.

First of all the fog light rule is not new, like indication when exiting a roundabout it is being revisited to remind people of the rule now that the majority of vehicles have fog lights fitted.

Simplistically headlights are at specific heights to be seen over kerbs, roundabouts, centre reservations etc, they are also restricted in the height from the road, so truck lights must be below 1400mm from the ground.

All road vehicles must have 2 forward facing headlights with high and low beam, as well as white side lights (parkers) and orange/amber direction indicators .

Fog lights are an accessory, that are low mounted for the reasons already indicated in other sections to light up the road surface under the fog.
Fog lights unlike spot or driving lights can work with just parkers and are not connected to high or low main beam, spot or driving lights must only come on with the main or high beam.

Using low fog lights in wet conditions cause the light to reflect back from the wet road surface which is why they should only be used in fog conditions.
Fog lights by nature of the design provide a spread beam (or should) that see's the kerb on both sides of the road. In real fog (as in Europe) you will understand that need. This design means that fog lights can and many cases will cause issue with approaching drivers.

I do not believe that the law is behind in the case of fog lights, there are valid reason for this law. The use of fog lights law is common to European law and miss use is not tolerated there.
If you want daytime running lights fit them, Volvo have had them for decades.

I personally have fog lights in my bull bar and would never use them knowing that they may/will blind on coming vehicles.

In my opinion, too many people use fog lights instead of low beam or dipped headlights, I am yet to understand why.
It would appear that those who use them do not believe that the manufactures headlights are good enough to light the road?

0
FollowupID: 790822

Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 13:41

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 13:41
In all honesty and apart from the specific law itself on fog lights, I can not see any reason why they cannot be on at any time and in any mode. Provided that they do not cause discomfort or glare to other road users. And seeing that the law makers are not twits I would say that we are missing something. So I ask what is it.

What is the reasoning behind the law?

I am not after an opinion I want a factual, scientific, physical, safety or social reason why the law was made in the first place. Not an emotional they "did it for all" or "they make revenue from it" opinion. Maybe we are missing something. If not then we should lobby to get rid of it.

Why? That's all I am asking.

Phil
0
FollowupID: 790823

Follow Up By: Shaker - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 13:45

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 13:45
The fact is that they do cause discomfort & glare to some drivers, when did you last check the alignment of your fog lights?
When did anybody??

0
FollowupID: 790826

Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 14:46

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 14:46
Shaker I am chuckling here.

I did check them last Friday night when we got home with the takeaway dinner. Lined them up on the back of the garage. They were a tad high as the bar had only been fitted. But they were low and a wide flat beam. But like I said earlier I now want some yellow bulbs.

I think I will settle for sharing the road and the safety of all. Us to see under the fog and low so that we don't blind anyone.

Which to me is fine. But I was wondering if anyone had any other issues.

Phil
0
FollowupID: 790832

Follow Up By: Member - John G - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 15:02

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 15:02
G'day 515

A couple of points:

The worst fog I have ever driven in was in the Blue Mountains. Pea soup density and wet roads. It's similar in Canberra where a prolonged period of fog often results in very damp roads and reflection off the road. So I'd argue that it's not uncommon to have the combination of fog and wet road.

I don't use my so-called fog lights at night. I've experimented but they add nothing of value. My initial question was - why is it illegal to use them during daylight, when I would argue that they are as effective as headlights (and I don't use the combination of headlights and foglights during the day) in drawing extra attention to the vehicle. If the vehicle didn't have foglights, then I'd drive with headlights on, so for those who ask "well why don't you do that?", I'd have to say, "to be legal, I will".

I think maybe Hairy is right,: it's simpler to have a blanket law.

Cheers
John
0
FollowupID: 790840

Follow Up By: garrycol - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 15:24

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 15:24
Have you asked the authorities??
0
FollowupID: 790847

Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 15:28

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 15:28
I think Hairy touched on something earlier. If we had 200 watt fogs and they were pointed down as required and allowed in the daytime then there would be a lot of people with damaged retinas if the road was wet. And especially at night without fog.

And John is right about fog in Canberra. I don't think it lifted until after lunch last weekend. And with such a heavy fog the roads were still damp way after the fog so those "fog" lights that people love to use diuring the daylight and no fog did cause some glare. Happens a lot also.

Anyway that's good enough for me to only use them in fog and not generally in daytime unless it has been approved by the police. If I need lights in the daytime then the headlights will do.

Phil
0
FollowupID: 790849

Reply By: zigglemeister - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 11:49

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 11:49
I could be quite wrong, but I've wondered whether this rule came in because of people leaving REAR fog lights on - which are often brighter than brake lights, and can be intensely annoying to drive behind, especially at night.
AnswerID: 512441

Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 11:54

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 11:54
We got rear ended once by a young bloke who said that he was distracted by the bright light on the back of a car in an adjacent lane that we were all passing at the time.

Front fogs can be annoying but the rear one is a real pain in the . . . . er . back!!!

Phil
0
FollowupID: 790804

Follow Up By: Member - John G - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 12:16

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 12:16
G'day zigglemeister

You are probably correct. ACT legislation also refers to high intensity rear fog lights, and unless these are controlled independently of the front fog lights, then both front and back would be on at the same time.

Rear high intensity fog lights don't seem to be very common.

Cheers
John
0
FollowupID: 790807

Follow Up By: garrycol - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 14:56

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 14:56
The ACT legislation is no different with respect to fog lamps than anywhere else in Aust and had been law for many many years. Drive along the F3 in NSW and the variable signs often remind drivers it is illegal to drive with fog lamps on when there is no fog or low visibility.
0
FollowupID: 790836

Reply By: Shaker - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 12:30

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 12:30
I believe in Europe where fog lights are really a necessity, they use the fog lights in lieu of headlights. The reason for the low mounting is that they penetrate under the fog layer & illuminate the immediate road ahead & out to sides.



AnswerID: 512445

Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 12:43

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 12:43
The fog lights that came with our Ironman bullbar had shields in front of the globes inside the lights that cut out the light above the center line of the globe. The beams were almost two flat and wide low beams.

Excellent for our trips through the highlands in winter.The problem is that by law having to have low beam on almost destroyed the effect. Luckily I haven't been asked about that as yet. (fingers crossed).

Now with the new ARB bar we were able to use the lights recovered from the "bent" Ironman bar and thus get the same effect. I just want yellow globes now. And I will be a happy chappy.

Phil
0
FollowupID: 790814

Reply By: DBN05 (tas) - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 14:20

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 14:20
Hi John ,

Hope this helps?? Tasmania changed law in 2009
Daytime Running Lights

these are optional forward-facing lights that are designed and fitted to make the motor vehicle more easily visible to other road users when driving during daytime .

They must be aligned to the front of the vehicle so as not to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to oncoming drivers and other road users.

They may only emit white light.
they must switch off automatically when headlights are switched on
If they go off when headlights are turned on they are daytime running lights.

Front fog lights

These are optional lights that are designed and fitted to inprove the lighting of the road ahead during times of reduced visibility. If fitted they must be aligned to the front of the vehicle so as not to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to oncoming drivers and other road users.

They may only emit white or yellow light.
They must be able to be switched on and off independent of the high and low beam headlamps.
There must be a non-flashing tell-tail light displayed on the dashboard and visible to the driver that illuminates when the front fog lights are on
If they stay on when headlights are on they are fog lights.

This info came out off the RACT Magazine june/july 2013

Cheers

Harvey (DBN05 )
I NEVER get lost, but don't i see a lot of NEW places.

Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message

AnswerID: 512452

Follow Up By: Member - John G - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 14:49

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 14:49
Thanks Harvey

I can only speak for the lights on the i30. They have to be switched on and off independently of the headlights, and can only be switched on if the side (parking) lights are on. So under Tasmanian law they are fog lights. I assume that design regulations are the same across oz.

Cheers
John
1
FollowupID: 790834

Follow Up By: garrycol - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 14:59

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 14:59
Basically yes.
0
FollowupID: 790838

Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 15:32

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 15:32
Interesting post Harvey

"They may only emit white or yellow light." 10 points to Tassie.

Phil
1
FollowupID: 790851

Reply By: Echucan Bob - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 20:08

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 20:08
My fog lights had piddly 55W halogen globes so I fitted a 55W HID kit. I haven't seen fog for years so I haven't tested them but I'm pretty sure that they would hinder rather than help. What they do very well is light the sides of the road so that I can see skippy as he approaches the bitumen and not just as he enters the impact zone.

Bob
AnswerID: 512474

Follow Up By: Shaker - Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 20:53

Monday, Jun 03, 2013 at 20:53
Finally the OPs question has been answered!
You are the reason for the law!

1
FollowupID: 790879

Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Tuesday, Jun 04, 2013 at 09:46

Tuesday, Jun 04, 2013 at 09:46
Very, very true Shaker

Phil
0
FollowupID: 790910

Reply By: Bazooka - Tuesday, Jun 04, 2013 at 16:53

Tuesday, Jun 04, 2013 at 16:53
Two things which ought to be 'policed' properly. 1- The blindingly bright rear red light mentioned by others above (Hyundais seem to be the main culprits in my experience), and 2- people driving with their fog and headlights on around town when there is no fog. Some of the latter are worse than others and I've hit a few 'transgressors' with high beam to register my displeasure at the wall of oncoming light which results, but I doubt they have a clue that it's not their headlights causing the problem.

I was flummoxed that so many could be so bl..dy inconsiderate until I read recently in a magazine an experienced test driver admit that he had himself been driving around unknowingly with the 'light wall' on because there was a little trick sequence to not having them come on automatically. Instructions were in the car handbook, but as he said, very few read handbooks. The car manufacturer should ensure that "off" is the default, not "on". Perhaps they do an it's just another case of IO error.
AnswerID: 512517

Follow Up By: Member - John G - Wednesday, Jun 05, 2013 at 09:58

Wednesday, Jun 05, 2013 at 09:58
G'day Bazooka

It was that article in the NRMA Open Road that alerted me to my illegal practice of using the fog lights on my i30 during the day instead of using headlights. The writer did state that he had turned the fog lights inadvertently and that there was a green warning light in the instrument cluster that was on, and which he didn't observe.

From reading all the responses to my original post, the only objective reason that folks have come up with is "glare", and I accept that as a reason.

But I think the reason for the law may rest on:

* Fog lights of varying intensity and efficiency
* Fog lights at varying heights e.g. the foglights on my i30 are small and low to the ground, those on a Landcruiser will be higher and hopefully more effective.
* Foglights added after purchase may not be aligned vertically with the headlights as most manfacturer placed fog lights are, thereby not allowing an oncoming driver a correct assessment of vehicle width.

I will change my behaviour as a result of reading the NRMA mag, and after checking ACT law. But as so many folks have noted in responding, there are planty of drivers who drive at night and day with fog lights on. It would seem to be a law that is not rigorously enforced.

Cheers
John
0
FollowupID: 790967

Reply By: Member - Jim - Tuesday, Jun 04, 2013 at 18:09

Tuesday, Jun 04, 2013 at 18:09
It should be obvious to anyone who has had the displeasure of someone on a clear night behind them, the additional glare requires a mirror adjustment so that the "knob" behind you can see.
And the same during rain (and not fog) that these lights help the driver and hinder all other traffic with respect to vision.
With a Hyundai the rear hi vis light comes on with the front fog lights and if it was used during fog only would be OK.

That is why the rules are written

Cheers,
Jim

AnswerID: 512523

Reply By: Rockape - Tuesday, Jun 04, 2013 at 19:38

Tuesday, Jun 04, 2013 at 19:38
John,
I am not having a go at you but fog means fog.

I don't know how many times I been vision impaired by drivers using fog lights at night.

Now you are going to say that you asked why in daylight. Simple Blanket rule as said before. Why question it when you can just turn on low beam. I believe you are trying to do the right thing and maybe it is just as easy to turn on your headlights on low beam.

I run with my headlights on, not because I can't see but because others might not see me, especially when they are looking into the sun or the vehicle blends into the local surrounds.


AnswerID: 512532

Follow Up By: Member - John G - Wednesday, Jun 05, 2013 at 09:33

Wednesday, Jun 05, 2013 at 09:33
G'day Rockape

Fair comment.

But, in weak defence . . . headlights are there primarily for night time driving vision, and probably since Volvo led the way years ago, headlights have a valuable secondary use as a safety feature for daytime driving. I thought the foglights on my i30 served the same purpose equally well.

Until reading the article in the NRMA Open Road magazine I was ignorant of the law that makes it illegal to use fog lights in conditions other than fog. I'll now change my behaviour to conform with the law.

The car is not at home at the monent, but I'll check the manual to see if there's a reference to the law. If not, then it is a significant ommission, but at the end of the day, my ignorance of the law is not a defence.

Cheers
John
1
FollowupID: 790965

Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Jun 05, 2013 at 09:59

Wednesday, Jun 05, 2013 at 09:59
I don't really think it is up to vehicle manufacturers or suppliers to have to advise consumers as to the finer points of the law.
They also don't mention that it illegal to sound a horn unless in an emergency, or when & where to dip your headlights, or that eating or drinking whilst driving is illegal etc, etc.

0
FollowupID: 790969

Follow Up By: Member - John G - Wednesday, Jun 05, 2013 at 10:56

Wednesday, Jun 05, 2013 at 10:56
G'day Shaker

Fair enough, but with tongue-in-cheek, is that why manufacturers put cup and drink bottle holders in cars, so at least it's a bit safer for us when we break the law?

avagoodday
John
0
FollowupID: 790974

Follow Up By: Rockape - Wednesday, Jun 05, 2013 at 14:54

Wednesday, Jun 05, 2013 at 14:54
John,
the beauty of the I30 cup holders is they can hold 2 tallies, 2 bottles of vino or 2 bottles of rum. LOL. Try it sometime.
0
FollowupID: 790994

Follow Up By: Member - John G - Wednesday, Jun 05, 2013 at 16:38

Wednesday, Jun 05, 2013 at 16:38
Love your work, Rockape
0
FollowupID: 791001

Reply By: Member - Bruce and Di T (SA) - Tuesday, Jun 04, 2013 at 20:53

Tuesday, Jun 04, 2013 at 20:53
In SA if you use fog lights in anything else other than a fog expect to get booked. It is illegal.

Di
AnswerID: 512535

Reply By: Member - Andrew - Wednesday, Jun 05, 2013 at 21:39

Wednesday, Jun 05, 2013 at 21:39
Hi John

To answer your question.
It is to do with the shape of the beam and the effects it has.
Fog lights shine with a wide but shallow intense beam meaning that when looking into the light it gives a very intense light when compared to a low beam light.

When used in fog this is not a problem because oncoming vehicles see your fog lights through a watery mist that scatters the light and diminishes the intensity and therefore the glare. The fog acts like a diffuser.

When you have fog lights on without fog the intensity is not diffused so other drivers see the equivalent of a driving light intensity. You don't have to have misaligned lights for this to be a problem as on anything but a dead flat road your vehicle will be pointing up at some stage.

(this is also very relevant to the rear red fog lights. They are a nightmare to follow in rain and are also easily mistaken for stop lights)

Fog light intensity is very obvious when some one follow you as the sharp cut off causes bright flashing in your mirrors as you go over bumps and come out of depressions in the road. Normal low beam headlamps are not as intense so are not as big a problem (unless someone has fitted after market HID's)

All this means of course that fog lights are designed to be used INSTEAD of headlights in fog at night.

If you can see better with your headlights on then you are not in the foggy conditions that fog lights are designed for.

So, fog lights are for heavy fog at night where the headlamps cause too much glare back and you can see better with a light that shines UNDER the mist.

If you are using fog lights to give more vision at highway speeds the you are looking at the wrong part of the road.

If you are using them for extra fill at low speed when off road then that is a realistic option.

The other thing is that if you fog lights help with high speed driving then you may have one of the many incorrectly fitted driving light lenses that have been supplied incorrectly as fog lights.

Hope this helps to understand some of the issues.

regards

A
AnswerID: 512587

Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Jun 05, 2013 at 22:07

Wednesday, Jun 05, 2013 at 22:07
At last! Somebody else that knows how these damn fog lights are intended to be used, thank you.
2
FollowupID: 791030

Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Monday, Jun 10, 2013 at 05:23

Monday, Jun 10, 2013 at 05:23
15 Replies and 51 Follow ups to get a decent answer Andrew. Well done and so typical of EO

LOL
0
FollowupID: 791403

Reply By: Member - evaredy - Thursday, Jun 06, 2013 at 12:37

Thursday, Jun 06, 2013 at 12:37
Well I drive with mine on.

They are not the true fog light, meaning they are not a real yellow, instead they are a pale yellow and they are not bright enough to blind or annoy oncoming drivers.
For me it's all about being visible and being seen.

I don't agree with those single rear fog lights, I used to have a car with one and it was blinding looking at it from behind.

The thing that really annoys me is idiots that drive around in bad weather with no lights on and again the idiots that drive around at 5 in the morning with no lights on.
AnswerID: 512631

Follow Up By: Kyle H - Friday, Jun 07, 2013 at 21:13

Friday, Jun 07, 2013 at 21:13
In WA it is illegal and can be fined $100 like all states

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=fog%20lights%20illegal&source=web&cd=8&cad=rja&ved=0CGkQFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.police.wa.gov.au%2FTraffic%2FRoadsafety%2Ftabid%2F991%2FDefault.aspx&ei=VL2xUYfyJ429iAeWkoDICg&usg=AFQjCNGgHvBew4i2KqDQqmzfGhxEASRBjA

Unfortunately the police don't book too many people with their wanker ooops! FOG lights on.
0
FollowupID: 791263

Follow Up By: Member - evaredy - Saturday, Jun 08, 2013 at 23:36

Saturday, Jun 08, 2013 at 23:36
As far as I know FOG lights are YELLOW NOT the same colour as the headlights.
I have never had issues with any other driver having those lights on.
It's not about the wank factor, I'm too old to give a shit, for me it's about being seen.

If you want to whinge why not have a go at the idiots that drive around with no lights on in the early hours of the morning, they are the wankers!
0
FollowupID: 791334

Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Sunday, Jun 09, 2013 at 07:36

Sunday, Jun 09, 2013 at 07:36
If it is after sunrise or the street lights have gone out they don't have to be on. Or are you talking about earlier.

Then again do you want us to have them on all day?

How early is early (name)?

Phil
0
FollowupID: 791340

Follow Up By: Kyle H - Sunday, Jun 09, 2013 at 07:57

Sunday, Jun 09, 2013 at 07:57
I cannot see anywhere in my post that could be construed as whinging.
I was just indicating via the attachment that in WA just like speeding or going through a red light, it is illegal to drive your vehicle with the fog lights on if there is no fog.
0
FollowupID: 791344

Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Sunday, Jun 09, 2013 at 08:05

Sunday, Jun 09, 2013 at 08:05
Kyle

I people used a name or a quote from the post they were responding too then people wouldn't get their nickers in a knot.

This is why I always sign off with my name.

Who accused you of whinging? I don't believe I did.

Phil
0
FollowupID: 791345

Follow Up By: Member - evaredy - Sunday, Jun 09, 2013 at 09:16

Sunday, Jun 09, 2013 at 09:16
@ Kyle,

My apologies Kyle , just had a crappy day.

You are of course right and the law is the law, I thought it was for the genuine fog lights and not the ones that simply look light your parkers or headlights.

@ PJR,

I am talking about 5am, just after the sun has gone down and in bad weather. People seem to think that because they can see, others can see them. It's not the case, especially when it's busy, those with no lights are are very hard to see.

0
FollowupID: 791348

Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Sunday, Jun 09, 2013 at 10:03

Sunday, Jun 09, 2013 at 10:03
Evaredy (or should I call you Mr Battery Ja)

I think that you are talking about after sunrise. Quote "5am, just after the sun has gone down ".

The street lights were still on here this morning at 8:30 when I went to church. So I had the lights on. I generally use the street lights as a guide to satisfy the legal side of things and then courtesy and safety for other times.

Bad weather is not one of my parameters. Bad visibility is. Rain and bright lights can sometimes be a detrimental.

For daytime running:
Whilst I satisfy the legal eye sight tests I prefer, or like, a bit more light myself and will have my lights on or off according to how I would like it.

I am not a fan of always having them on. If we did that all the time then a car with lights would just become mundane and "part of the furniture" and hide in the maze of other cars with lights on.

Phil
0
FollowupID: 791351

Reply By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Saturday, Jun 08, 2013 at 11:57

Saturday, Jun 08, 2013 at 11:57
Interesting reading of why yellow is better for fog lights. I found it this morning.

Another point of view.

I am going to try painting a set of globes and see how they go. We came through about 60Km of very thick fog between Goulburn and Canberra last night around 1AM and the white fog lights on the Maxima were not much better than low beam. And yes! They were pointing "under the fog".

The paint was just $20 from shuperdeep so it's not a great loss. I am going to paint the actual globes though because I have a spare set in case it doesn't work.

But it wont be until a few weeks from now when we get a chance to test them out.

Phil
AnswerID: 512778

Follow Up By: Member - John G - Saturday, Jun 08, 2013 at 14:00

Saturday, Jun 08, 2013 at 14:00
G'day Phil

An interesting experiment.

After all the respondents on the Thread that cried "glare" I parked the i30 in the drive with headlights and fog lights on, and walked back at intervals and crouched to driver's head level and looked. No glare from the fog lights. I repeated it in the street and walked back stopping at intervals to about 50m away. No glare from the foglights.

Poor scientific method I know, but my conclusion . . .they aren't really fog lights, that's just what they're called by the manufacturers.

I've also been observing the number of cars driving around Canberra veryday with either foglights on, or both fog and headlights.

Good luck with the yellow globes.

Cheers
John
0
FollowupID: 791298

Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Saturday, Jun 08, 2013 at 15:15

Saturday, Jun 08, 2013 at 15:15
I pressed the wrong key. See somewhere below for my response John
0
FollowupID: 791301

Reply By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Saturday, Jun 08, 2013 at 14:37

Saturday, Jun 08, 2013 at 14:37
I found the same John. But when I hosed the driveway and made it wet the fog lights which were directed "down" certainly would have upset heaps.

We shall see about the lights. I just remember the ones Dad had on his Armstrong Sidley. They were yellow and di a ripper job. But that was old technology which isn't fashionable these days. They came on the car from England.

I think that its mainly the add-ons that are running 100 watt globes that are the hassle. It's a bit hard to attempt to stop one and ask. May get a knife in the back. So we shall see.

Catchya

Phil
AnswerID: 512784

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (13)