Light bars

Bill

Isn't the exemption only for ADRs relating to vehicles buiilt before 1991? That's the way I read it. "Transport and Main Roads has provided this Vehicle
Standards Instruction for ADR vehicles and vehicles manufactured prior to 1991"

But once they cross any border the car is illegal.

Aaaah The confusion.

Phil

Phil, with the mobility of today's society it is high time that laws (other than special local ones) are conforming throughout the whole of the Nation.

Totally agree Allan.

Unfortunately the laws don't have a statement like; "if you live in another state you are exempt". So you run the gauntlet. And unfortunately ignorance is not an excuse. You fit the lights in ignorance - stiff! That's why we have mechanics and inspection etc.

On a personal note I think that we are just lucky our standard lights are sufficient for our needs.

What happened to Queensland last night. Go afraid of the cold did they?? You bloody ripper!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Phil

Yes Phil,
It is so easy to get caught out on some of these many minor pieces of legislation. For instance it is now required in NSW to have smoke alarms in any vehicle used to sleep in. That includes caravans, motor homes, and even within my old Troopy.
I actually thought that it was not a bad idea and anyway, as I may travel into the Great Premier State of NSW, I fitted a smoke alarm. Only trouble is that as soon as I get onto an unsealed road the dust sets it off so I have to deactivate it!
For the moment it is in the Too Hard Basket with the battery removed.
It is not too hard to be ethical but damned hard to be law abiding!

I am waiting for the day when we have to carry one of those high visibility tops and a safety helmet for when we change tyres. And don't forget the witches hats as well. And don't forget the steel cap boots as well.

We use a roof top tent and no smoke alarm. God forgive me for I have sinned!!! We will all go to hell.

Catchya

Phil

Phil my Son, you have not sinned. You will not go to hell.

I here quote from the good book of NSW legislation.......

"However, the definition does not include
moveable dwellings that comprise:
A tent or structure that has two or more walls
and a roof or ceiling primarily constructed of
flexible fabric or plastic material."

Thank you father. I have been so stressed out. Almost like what a public servant feels at work each day. Oh the shock.

I noticed that you evaded the dig at what NSW did to QLD last night!!!

Catchya

Phil

PS: To the PS tribe - all in good fun guys.

Phil, I didn't evade the dig.
Fact is I wouldn't know which end of a football to insert first!!!!!

Ross M
Have to agree.
Although it's a strange law, it's the law.
The world is full of strange laws, but we still have to comply.

Duane A
It's up to us to make sure we comply with any and all strange laws.
Good luck with challenging it. You'd be better off making a written submission to your local member or to your motoring organisation.

But until then we need to suck it up.

There are many people who break the law every day with their cars, lights on the roof and fishing rod holders (meat cleavers) mounted on bullbars come to mind. Sometimes we get away with it, sometimes not.

But it's good to see the police enforcing the law. Perhaps you're lucky they didn't take a good hard look?

You got off light I copped a yellow sticker for my rod holders on my HiLux bull bar even though they did not protrude past the extremities of the vehicle, and the blokes at the inspection centre said it is wiser to leave them off your vehicle, as every rookie officer will pinch you for them. lesson learnt. but by the time they had finished with the vehicle it cost me new tyres, new steering damper,and new seals in the front hubs, and while the wheels were off I did the wheel bearings too.

Gidday

I saw some rod holders on a landcruiser yesterday and i thought "rod holders, haven't seen them for a while" so I guess that message must have got through to most people.

Cheers

Ross

"It prohibits non separated lights even lights too close together."

When I checked the regulations I didn't find any such stipulation. I posted it below.

The high beam, low beam, parking lights and indicators in my Discovery are all inclosed in the one housing (they all have separate reflectors). I guessing the WA police don't go around booking stock Discos because the lights aren't separated.

The individual lights in a light bar are all separate, each with their own reflector. Yes, the middle pair are close together, but the regulations don't mention this.

Bob

Echucan Bob
Oh come of it! What Rot.
We are not talking about high and lows in the one case AT ALL.
What are you on about?????

It is the perceived source of the light from the on coming drivers aspect which is what the law tries to cater for.

One brilliant big light bar DOES not diistinguish the structure of the oncoming vehicle ie Motor cycle OR road train. At night a somewhat different thing to allow to pass.
Therefore, it is assumed a light bar, because of it's perceived concentration of light presented to oncoming motorist AND traffic Policemen see it as a motorcycle because it appears in the centre, ie only one source of light, to the oncoming traffic.

I haven't been to a Disco, there is light flashing everywhere in them.

Ross,

"One brilliant big light bar DOES not distinguish..............etc"(unquote)



At night, when something like this is heading towards you at full noise, with all lights ablaze, I think you're going to know it's not a Honda or a Kawasaki.

But then the majority of truck drivers dip their lights early. Not like a lot of car drivers, and a few 4Wds, who don't dip until they can read your number plate.

Bob.

Note the light bar with a blanked off centre section??

We are talking about the law not how big something is or isn't.

Um er Ross, settle down mate. The law was drafted before there were light bars. In the photo above the gap in the middle wouldn't be perceptable at 200 metres, let alone a kilometer when they would have been long dipped anyway. The policeman in question was being an opportunist - racking up his quota without regard to how stupid he seemed or the damage he was doing to the wider police reputation.
I've tried to show you the actual law so you might understand. You're clearly wrong and are reacting badly.

Bob

Echucan Bob
No the gap wouldn't be perceptible at 200 metres if on a road train, a 4wd or a motorbike.
It is what the law says, is what we are talking about not if it is big small bright or dull.

The policeman may have been filling a quota, but he is allowed to and given the opportunity to do it he will.

What we are saying is, Don't give him the opportunity because if you get caught it doesn't matter to him or the law, if you think you are right.

In all the "stuff above many lost what it was all about in the first place.

The big light bar on the road train is also legal on a motorbike then, cos it has it's centre obscured. Man in Blue or Khaki sees it as OK.
Poor old Duane didn't cut the beam so he did the crime and paid the fine.

Sorry Constable Ross

The police officer was not following the directive from the WA Police commissioner ..... He told his officers not to pull citizens up for petty issues, and to concentrate on serious issues. I guess he missed that memo, not listened to the radio, or was not watching the news....must have been out issuing petty infringements.

Brett....

The following is copied from the Queensland Transport website and adds to what Ian has posted above.
Note the statement "Transport and Main Roads raised this issue with the Australian Motor Vehicle Certification Board, who have endorsed a change to the ADR". So in time the rules may be changed nationwide.
Oh, and just maybe, Queensland is not always 30 years behind the times??


***********************************************************************************
Queensland Government --- Transport and Main Roads.
Vehicle standards instruction (general 15.0)
Fitment and use of driving lamps including light emitting diode (LED) light bars on vehicles.
Released May 2013

The Department of Transport and Main Roads has recently dealt with a number of issues relating to the use of LED light bars, fitted to the front bumper bar or bull bar on some vehicles, as driving lamps. The main issue faced by vehicle operators is that when a light bar is used as a driving lamp on a vehicle manufactured from 1991, Australian Design Rule (ADR) 13/00 requires that either two or four lamps are fitted.
Transport and Main Roads is of the opinion that this ADR requirement was set before the introduction of LED type lamps and the requirement does not reflect this new technology.
To ensure national consistency, Transport and Main Roads raised this issue with the Australian Motor Vehicle Certification Board, who have endorsed a change to the ADR to allow an odd number of driving lamps to be fitted to vehicles. Until this update to the ADR is made, Transport and Main Roads has provided this Vehicle Standards Instruction for ADR vehicles and vehicles manufactured prior to 1991.
**************************************************************************************

Just curious - what's the significance of 1991?

Dunno Scott. I just copy & post them, not explain them! LOL

Eagles lost the Grand Final....

Cheers
Greg

Greg, it was also the beginning of the World Wide Web.
But that was maybe less significant than Hawthorn's GF win. lol
One of these must have something to do with driving lights?

Western Australian Consolidated Regulations

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ROAD TRAFFIC (VEHICLE STANDARDS) RULES 2002 - REG 70

70 . Pairs of lights

(1) If lights are required under the Vehicle Standards to be fitted to a vehicle in pairs —

(a) a light must be fitted on each side of the longitudinal axis of the vehicle;

(b) the centre of each light in a pair must be the same distance from the longitudinal axis of the vehicle;

(c) the centre of each light in a pair must be at the same height above ground level; and

(d) each light in a pair must project approximately the same amount of light of the same colour.

(2) Subrule (1) applies to a motor bike with an attached sidecar as if the sidecar were not attached.

I was pulled up near Northhampton so there or Geralton id say .As for sucking it up and following the law that's all good and dandy and laws have to be in place but to bend over and touch ya toes on every law that's made doesn't work for me .So until some logic is behind the single light bar installation ill follow it up and not just suck it up .

Of course it does, but if you get a ticket you face the lottery of magistrates court, and the associated waste of time. If you argue the toss with the police officer, they are very likely to get narky and give you a hard time in some other way. I wish I could deal with people who annoy me the way the police do! (Well perhaps not like they do in Victoria!)

Bob

Sorry Neil & Bob,


You need to understand the definition of a "Light". It is an assembly of components that together produce a "Light Fitting" or appliance.
The fact that the light source within comprises a number of individual LED elements does not make it more than one "Light".


Consider a Traffic Light. It has maybe 50 LED elements within, but it is still only ONE Traffic Light is it not? Trying to argue otherwise is not only being a "Bush Lawyer" but is futile. Try it in front of a magistrate.

Bob,
you aren't kidding there when you say shut the (something) up. I got up an officer of the law in Raymond terrace over a blown headlight bulb
many years ago and ended up in handcuffs. Man did I back peddle from that point.

He was nice about it and added about 4 unworthy trailer tyres to the fine.

Allan, I can see where you are coming from, but go back to my example of the Discovery light assembly; it comprises several different globes each with its own reflector. "It is an assembly of components that together produce a "Light Fitting" or appliance." To me thats the same as the light bar; several different globes each with its own reflector. Show me where the law defines the light as you have and how it differentiates between the light bar and the Discovery light.

Bob

Bob, Your Disco has two such composite light assemblies symmetrically arranged left & right so it conforms to the regulations. A light bar contains a linear array of LED emitters producing an essentially unbroken light source.


I would not be inclined to argue to a magistrate that my "row of LED's" constituted separate symmetrical L&R lights unless I had Geoffrey Robertson QC as my Counsel. LOL

no demerit points taken just two golden gliders . Ill pay for my sins but these blokes were on a war path out side binnu road block two marked cars one unmarked flash for cash the lot happy WA day .

It's about time police got "officious" with illegal 4wds, with massive lifts, huge wheels, no sway bars, illegal HID lights, etc.
Although some seem to think it, they are not above the law!

Sounds like a personal issue mate.

Not at all.

Maybe, maybe not Shaker. ADRs are developed for safety reasons (among others). I don't know stats but anecdotally I reckon there wouldn't be much to indicate that most such mods do any significant harm. And I'd hazard a guess, based on what I've read on here, that a proportion of people towing would be "illegal" in some way.

But if I was asked to choose I'd say an officer intent on following the letter of the law would do better to chase the vehicles you're talking about than someone who is actually trying to improve safety with a light bar - after he (the policeman) read up on every regulation and ADR available of course.

An aspect of ADR's is the time frame for something to become compliant and it almost becomes a joke , perfect example is LED light bars and HID , HID driving lights are legal yet HID conversion kits for your normal headlights are NOT , that is unless you go to the trouble of fitting lens washers and wipers ,,,, bout time that the ADR's were updated in line with technology and that anything ADR compliant in any 1 state is also compliant throughout the rest of Australia,,,

WRONG!
You are not allowed to have driving lights on when confronted by an oncoming vehicle.

Why does it bother you that you can't cross a cycle lane?

It's just like you can't drive on a footpath, does that mean all pedestrians can't cross the road?

Cyclists have the same rights on the roads as anyone else, try riding in traffic one day and you may have a better understanding of what it's like.

I really hope one of your family or friends isnt killed because some idiot wants to drive down the cycle lane........
[

My apologies for offending anyone, it wasn't my intention.

I have used the said cycle lanes when I have ridden a bicycle with my kids to school and back again (more than once). Personally I prefer to use a (dual use) pathway, than the cycle lane on the side of the road as my children are young and not always the best of riders. A dual use path isn't always available. I am also a 4wd owner and user.

Yes,there are times when a driver does cross the white line into a cycle way. Some roads in Geraldton don't have turn-off lanes, or double carriageways, and at times if we wish to be considerate of traffic flow behind us when a vehicle is turning off, we take alternative action and travel into the cycle lane and around the stopped vehicle. Of course, if there is a cyclist in the said lane, we do wait until they've gone past.

I'm not one for travelling constantly in the cycle lane, although I've seen it done by others.

Please don't shoot me for making a comment about a random act that I'm sure most of us are guilty of doing at some point in our driving lives.

And yes, it does annoy me that cycle lanes are provided for cyclists, yet some of them prefer to ignore them and ride on the roads and hold up the traffic for miles. Consideration goes both ways...

AMEN....Common sense prevails.

Well done goody two shoes dont bitch when they bust you for your ridged two way arieals on your roo bar. if there Are any soft serves involved with conversation its you pair of gallas .get a life and read between the lines i posted this to warn other people looser.