Warning to all WA Prospectors

Submitted: Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 00:06
ThreadID: 102773 Views:3008 Replies:12 FollowUps:20
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Hi

Maybe I should have put this in the Friday Funnies..a sign from out the WA Goldfields (not sure exactly where - I didn't take it) with a fairly blunt warning...pretty funny..wonder how much gear he's acquired enforcing his claim :)



Cheers
Greg
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Reply By: Member - Heather L - Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 09:19

Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 09:19
Love it. Goldfields mob have always been pretty blunt.
From 'born on the goldfields' girl.
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Reply By: mike g2 - Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 10:20

Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 10:20
must be peed off at everyone wandering around the lease! miners right is subject to pre approval from lease holders, don't know if they can actually confiscate your gear let alone shoot at you! I'm sure its very tounge in cheek threat, but-would be an interesting legal situation.
MG
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 10:25

Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 10:25
..I have applied for and been granted a few mining tenements in my time....none have come with a police uniform and a gun :)

Cheers
Greg
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Reply By: Member - David M (SA) - Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 10:54

Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 10:54
Think I recognize that tree.e.
Found 57m North.
Dave.
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Reply By: Member - J&R - Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 13:08

Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 13:08
So you're shooting bunnies on yr lease and a slug accidentally ends up in someone's tyre. Oops..

If you don't have permission, then keep out.
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Follow Up By: Rockape - Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 21:05

Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 21:05
Cowboys are everywhere, they even shoot people in the suburbs.
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Reply By: Member - Jack - Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 13:38

Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 13:38
If it was in the Cape York area I'd take it *very* seriously. Someone up that way is up on a murder charge after taking down a traveller/prospector last year.

I always like the logic behind the sign that said they they shoot first so that they don't have to ask questions later.

Happy hunting.

Jack
The hurrieder I go, the behinder I get. (Lewis Carroll-Alice In Wonderland)

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Reply By: Member - Dirt Princess - Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 15:40

Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 15:40
Ooops wouldn't wanna get lost :o
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Reply By: Echucan Bob - Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 20:35

Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 20:35
"Lease holders"! Don't even own it. I'd shoot back. We don't need alpha hotels like this in the bush. Time we stood up.

Bob
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Follow Up By: disco driver - Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 23:12

Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 23:12
Bob,
Sorry, but lease holders, either mining or pastoral, DO have the right to exclude people from their leaseholds if they so desire.
You can't stand up, you don't have a leg to stand on.

Disco.
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Follow Up By: equinox - Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 23:52

Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 23:52
Hello Disco,

I am a little concerned of your statement, not to mention the threats that are stated on the sign.

I refer to two documents from the Department of Mines and Petroleum:

Mining Act Guidelines

Enforcement and prosecution

Reading through these two documents, not being an expert on the issue I cannot see anywhere where it is actually legal to shoot first and ask questions later (presumably the sign writer is referring to a firearm).

In fact all I can find is, "Under the legislation, the Court may
impose a fine, injunctive relief or both."

This is an important issue, as some people may be simply on the lease area looking for example, "tree frogs" and I do not think that death, or confiscation of equipment (vehicle confiscation is implied) is on par with any possible offense deliberate or otherwise.

I have therefore already emailed the Department of Mines and Petroleum with a link to this thread seeking clarification on the issue.

I will post their response if and when I get it.

Regards
Alan
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In whatever comes our way.

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Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 00:22

Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 00:22
Not suggesting that that you don't know what your talking about Disco but you might want to look at, Crown Land, Granted ELs, Pending EL's, Mining Leases, etc.
Dave.
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Follow Up By: disco driver - Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 00:23

Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 00:23
Alan,
Where do I refer to the sign or what it contains?
In general terms, it is illegal to enter a leasehold without the permission of the leaseholder.
Of course there are exceptions to this premise but entering a lease to prospect/hunt/camp is not one of them.
Permission is needed.

Disco.
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 00:36

Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 00:36
Hello

Prospecting on someone else's granted mining tenement (without permission) is against the law but my understanding is that having a GRANTED mining tenement just gives you sole right to "mine" (which includes exploring and prospecting) for the minerals.

It doesn't give you the right to exclude anyone else from the area if they are carrying out some other lawful business nor does it make you an authorised law enforcer.

If someone is in your tenement "mining" (which includes prospecting etc) I suppose you can advise them of the fact that they maybe breaking the law but that's about it I would say (then note their details etc and notify police/mines dpt). Anything else and you are possibly breaking some other law (killing, stealing, kidnapping :) The sign is obviously a scare tactic and figure most people know what they can and cant get away with.

One interesting aspect of the Mining Act in WA is that if you happen to "accidentally" wonder onto someones lease and find some gold...and get caught, the gold is the property of the government, not the actual lease holder as it has to be the lease holder (or employee) who "mines" the gold for it to be theirs. So if you get busted and your booty taken by the lease holder they will be breaking the law just as much as you were...so maybe strike a deal :)

Cheers
Greg



I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Follow Up By: equinox - Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 00:47

Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 00:47
Disco,

I wont comment on pastoral leases that you mention as that is aside from this discussion.

There are two sides to the discussion, moderates bordering on one side near the middle, and extremists at each end. I'm not accusing you of being an extremist however you have sided that of the leaseholder. I am sure you are not an extremist, and I do not accuse you of putting up the sign, nor do I mean to imply that you side with those that put it up, however you have entered into the discussion and I am concerned with what you say.

Greg I think is right with his latest comment that the lease holder has the sole right to mine, and the leaseholder would have genuine objections to those who would also mine, however that should not exclude others to be on the land for purposes other than mining.

Cheers
Alan

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In whatever comes our way.

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Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 00:54

Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 00:54
Not quite sure where your at Explorer,but if you have a Mining Lease
and someone is on there prospecting they are breaking the law. Most owners will ask you to move on. However if you persist in prospecting they will call the gold police,and then it gets ugly
Cheers,Dave.
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 01:28

Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 01:28
Hello Dave

I'm here - where are you? :) Yes, you would be breaking the law if prospecting on someone else's mining lease, I am not sure I suggested otherwise.

I am not aware of the full duty's encumbered on the Gold Police but I doubt it extends to evicting stray prospectors, unless they happened to be driving past at the time ..or bags full of gold are involved (but I could be wrong). There are lots of different minerals..pyrite has always been one of my favorites, cant see the "Gold" Police chasing me down for "stealing" that :)

Cheers
Greg
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 01:48

Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 01:48
G,day Explorer.

"It doesn't give you the right to exclude anyone else from the area if they are carrying out some other lawful business nor does it make you an authorised law enforcer"
Had a drive around the Super Pit site lately. :)

If your not encumbered of the duty's and powers of the Gold Police
best you not run into them.
Cheers, Dave.


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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 10:03

Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 10:03
Hi

Actual full on mining activities are covered by many "Acts" associated regulations and approval conditions. There is no doubt that at some stage a miner can put up fences and legally exclude you (mainly for your own safety...and so they comply with rules). Different scenario for small scale prospecting/mining I would say. Whats stopping me from pegging Cable Beach and excluding everyone :)

My point with the Gold Police is they probably have better things to do than hunt down prospectors just for detecting on someone elses patch. If there was actually some gold involved the case would be different. A friend of mine has been "visited" by them, not for doing something wrong himself, but because he had purchased some gold that had, unbeknown to him, been acquired illegally. They took it and that was that.

Cheers
Greg
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 12:52

Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 12:52
The sign is obviously full of bluster but it makes a valid point. If you have no legal business being there then move right along. Someone has already staked a claim and paid for the rights. You can stand up, sit down, do the hokey pokey, whatever takes your fancy but you have no right being there without permission so go find somewhere else.

Many years ago there was a bloke in the Bendethera valley in NSW who leased some land with a right of way track across it to the caves and national park/state forest. When he was "in residence" he took to stopping people from using that track without payment of a toll (about $5 per head iirc) - and he had a shotgun as his assistant. We were a convoy of 4 vehicles with a handful of kids on a weekend jaunt and although we knew the track was a public thoroughfare and we'd spent a couple of hours travelling in we turned tail and got out of there quick smart. A couple of years later we read in the papers that he was convicted of something in relation to his activities and his lease terminated. Moral - don't mess with a nutter with a gun.
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Follow Up By: Norm C (WA) - Monday, Jun 17, 2013 at 23:15

Monday, Jun 17, 2013 at 23:15
At least by making such threats toward anyone who stumbles passed
his lease, he would be showing he really doesn't fit the criteria to be a
licensed firearm owner.Protection of a lease and stealing possessions
is not regarded as genuine need or reason.Maybe his character could be in question.Then again he may just be a nutter who wished he had a firearm.Either way The police could find who holds the lease, find if they have a licence and have a quite chat.
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Reply By: Member - Serendipity(WA) - Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 20:48

Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 20:48
I get out prospecting when I can and have seen many signs of a similar warning. More common is for lease holders to stake their track in so you slash 2 or more tyres.

There is enough available land out there so anyone should have no reason to poach on someone else's lease. The big mining companies have lots of land under exploration lease and are usually very easy to ask and get permission to have a look around their land. Small guys are trying to make a living out there and I just avoid them. It is hard work what they are doing so good luck to them.

Cheers

Serendipity



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Reply By: mikehzz - Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 07:15

Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 07:15
The sign is a redneck blowhard threat implying the leaseholder is a touch insane. The things that it threatens to do are illegal, he can't shoot you or confiscate your property legally. If he does then he breaks the law. Of course that doesn't really help you if you are dead like the people in Queensland. So the sign should keep most people out better than a locked gate. It conjures up images of movies like Wolfe Creek or Deliverance. It's probably an empty threat because the spelling is too good...most real rednecks can't even do a simple forum post without a few spelling boo boo's. :-)

PS: What sort of spell checker doesn't have the word "movies" in it's dictionary?
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Reply By: AlanTH - Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 10:20

Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 10:20
As someone mentioned above many lease holders stake tracks although that is also highly illegal and dangerous.
Mt Jackson area in WA is well known for it but the bloke that does it is a goldfileds councillor or something with plenty of pull so there'll be no fines for him or even a visit from the cops although complaints have been made about tyres being ruined.
Most of that area is under lease and the state of the animals left without water with broken windmills etc was sickening.
But there we go, who cares about a few hundred stock when moneys involved?
AlanH.
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Follow Up By: Member - DOZER - Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 12:11

Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 12:11
Exactly, prosppecting is just about possible money.
Think for a minute, if he or she lease holder/land owner did exactly what the sign said, you would walk 5kms/hr x 12 hrs, or 60kms in a day, which would give you some time to think about what your going to do next.....and when you make it back with the police, if they cant find your gear, its your word against theirs, and you were tresspassing by admission.....
A horse carcus can disappear in 2 weeks or so to become scattered bones here and there, it doesnt take much for me to decide to leave well enough alone.
b4 you bag me out, walk a mile in my shoes, then your a mile away and have my shoes :)

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Follow Up By: Member - J&R - Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 12:17

Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 12:17
AlanTH
You're either brave or the other to post comments in a public forum like that.
Good luck if he's as powerful as you're intimating.
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Reply By: get outmore - Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 22:06

Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 22:06
there are very few to none land owners that way

there are lease holders , not many leases give exclusive rights

mining tenements are one and pastoral leases around infrastructure is another

you have EVERY right to pass through and recreate on a prospecting lease despite people telling you otherwise

over 90% of prospecting leases will also be on pastoral leases

so a lease definitly does not give you exclusive access
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Reply By: garthyguts - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2013 at 09:57

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2013 at 09:57
I don't let any stranger camp in my back yard and have a look around. why should they let people run around there blocks.
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2013 at 10:11

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2013 at 10:11
Hi

There is a big difference between freehold land (your backyard) and a mining tenement. You own the land - they don't. They have simply been given the permission/sole rights to explore/prospect/mine for certain minerals. As mentioned anyone else carrying out some other lawful activity can not be excluded by the mining tenement holder (in you average scenario). Obviously some exceptions but the average prospector cant tell you to bugger off if all you are doing is camping (for example) - they have no legal right to do so (well that's my understanding).

Cheers
Greg
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Follow Up By: mikehzz - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2013 at 23:32

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2013 at 23:32
Do you shoot them and take their stuff? :-)
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Wednesday, Jun 19, 2013 at 00:15

Wednesday, Jun 19, 2013 at 00:15
..standard procedure in the wild west :) I am lead to believe Mick O has purchased a bullet proof vest for his upcoming "raid".

Cheers
Greg
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Follow Up By: mikehzz - Wednesday, Jun 19, 2013 at 07:22

Wednesday, Jun 19, 2013 at 07:22
I'm a bit disappointed. I had visions of home made armour Ned Kelly style.
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