Troopy diffs
Submitted: Thursday, Jun 20, 2013 at 06:00
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rb30e
Hi, I just bought a locker for the rear of my 94 troopy. I was told that the front and rear diffs are pretty much the same. Was thinking of putting the LSD from the rear into the front. Does anyone know if this is possible?
Thanks
Reply By: get outmore - Thursday, Jun 20, 2013 at 13:26
Thursday, Jun 20, 2013 at 13:26
Climb underneath and have a look and you will have your answer
AnswerID:
513452
Reply By: Rockape - Thursday, Jun 20, 2013 at 13:27
Thursday, Jun 20, 2013 at 13:27
Rb,
I wouldn't waste the time, effort or money in putting the LSA in the front. Those Tojo LSD's are useless after a max of 50,000k. Not one of ours would be working after 2 months of use.
Just get out on the grass and do the boy racer thing. You will leave a trench with one wheel only. Don't know if Toyota have improved the LSD's in their latest diffs, but I wouldn't count on it if they couldn't do it in the first 30 years.
AnswerID:
513453
Follow Up By: Member - DOZER - Thursday, Jun 20, 2013 at 18:34
Thursday, Jun 20, 2013 at 18:34
On soap box....That is utter rubbish...i know they are not a locker, and alot of you blokes expect them to be, but Toyota actually option electric lockers across the range, but few take it up....If you dont lift a wheel, the LSD actually helps, and they are strong.....when have you heard of one blowing up??? but because they wont drive one wheel when the other is off the ground, they cop a poop load of criticism....trade up to a niss3n if you like black marks up driveways and going sideways on gravel lots.......off soap box.
FollowupID:
792177
Follow Up By: Rockape - Thursday, Jun 20, 2013 at 19:04
Thursday, Jun 20, 2013 at 19:04
Back from the rubbish tip. Their lsd is not even an worth having. Driving cruisers for the last 30 years, and that includes driving them every day both at work and at
home. I will stand by my statement that they have a very limited life. No one of our work utes would work as an lsd after 3 to 6 months.
How come it got to laying rubber like a Nissan on bitumen. See what I wrote. GRASS. If it doesn't work on grass it doesn't work at all.
There we go again. Blowing up. Who said anything about blowing up. I stated they don't work for long as an lsd. One thing is they do last for a long time as an open diff.
Maybe you should walk in my shoes when I have had to walk up a 1 in 6 incline, because the front diff had destroyed it's self/ dropped a front drive shaft or broken a cv. You just sit there on the wet incline and spin 1 WHEEL, then go nowhere.
If you want to start a Nissan/ Toyota argument, find a Nissan owner.
FollowupID:
792179
Follow Up By: Rockape - Thursday, Jun 20, 2013 at 19:06
Thursday, Jun 20, 2013 at 19:06
Also have a look at what Pop stated. He fixes them.
I am over this.
FollowupID:
792180
Follow Up By: Member - DOZER - Thursday, Jun 20, 2013 at 19:16
Thursday, Jun 20, 2013 at 19:16
Calm down, and read what i wrote....nissans have a lovely lsd...they are so good, they leave black marks on hard surfaces and are tail happy in the gravel...they would even leave twin spinners in the grass if you tested one.....for these reasons and more, Toyota made their LSD more tame...for the family man who has a family in the car and nothing to prove. The issue here is you say they are poop because........they dont lock up on low traction surfaces when your feeding power into them....and im saying thats what lockers are for.
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Follow Up By: Rockape - Thursday, Jun 20, 2013 at 20:17
Thursday, Jun 20, 2013 at 20:17
Mate, what I said was, after a very small part of their life they don't work as an lsd at all. They work just like a Nissan diff when new, but they don't take long to not work at all.
As I said I know this
well. Having had to walk up very steel inclines.
FollowupID:
792197
Reply By: pop2jocem - Thursday, Jun 20, 2013 at 14:48
Thursday, Jun 20, 2013 at 14:48
The Toyota Landcruiser front and rear diffs were interchangeable up to about 1989 from memory. From around 1990-'91 the front diff was a much smaller unit and AFAIK no longer interchangeable front to rear.
As RA said, not much point swapping them anyway. The rear SO CALLED LSD was pretty useless from day one and just got worse.
One small problem encountered with swapping the diffs in the earlier ones was that the diff was not actually designed to be driven in the opposite direction for very extended distances. Not a problem for the occasional 4WD user but they did fail in the pinion bearings when locked in 4WD continuously like some mining vehicles were.
Cheers
Pop
AnswerID:
513459
Reply By: get outmore - Thursday, Jun 20, 2013 at 14:58
Thursday, Jun 20, 2013 at 14:58
As I said have a look.
One glance will tell you the front is smaller.
So its a bit pointless discussing the effectiveness or lack thereof of the lsd becsuse it can't be done
AnswerID:
513462
Reply By: Life Member-Doug T NSW - Thursday, Jun 20, 2013 at 16:29
Thursday, Jun 20, 2013 at 16:29
Is the locker air or Auto, because I have the same model as yours you will find this question very important ,
.
AnswerID:
513467
Reply By: Member - DOZER - Thursday, Jun 20, 2013 at 18:44
Thursday, Jun 20, 2013 at 18:44
A 1994 has a different (smaller) sized front diff to the rear, so you wont be able to use the rear LSD up front. I strongly suggest you do put a locker or a lsd in the front, because the front diff blows up lots in your model, ESPECIALLY if you have a locker in the back and try harder tracks and get stuck!
The problem is the front diff is an open centre, and the gears are not supported all round like the rear LSD 4 pinion indestructable (read very strong) centre. If you look at the cressida grande, or supra, or later hilux they has a rear lsd that will fit in the front of your troupy. If it were me, id be going back to ARB and buying a front locker to match.
Andrew
AnswerID:
513476
Follow Up By: rb30e - Friday, Jun 21, 2013 at 10:07
Friday, Jun 21, 2013 at 10:07
That's interesting to know. Thanks for that. Any idea what year model supras, hilux's or Cressida have the same diff? Or are the likely to be worn out too if these Toyota diffs are as temperamental as people are saying they are.
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Follow Up By: Member - DOZER - Saturday, Jun 22, 2013 at 18:02
Saturday, Jun 22, 2013 at 18:02
Worn out is not the term i would use, worn in mayb....when they are new, they are a little better, after 1000kms of rubbing against one another, the cluthes are not as tight.... strong as is a term i would use to describe a Toyota LSD though...the 1988 on supra and cressida and hilux use a G series rear diffs, the supra also has a lsd called torsen in the turbo models, they are worm geared and very limited slip...equivalent to a nissan cone type lsd...cressida and hilux have clutch type which only has a set preload that is easily overcome when power is sent through them....its even worse if you have widies on, as more traction means more torque to transfer...my last 4 or 5 vehicles have had lockers for this reason.
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: rb30e - Tuesday, Jun 25, 2013 at 06:00
Tuesday, Jun 25, 2013 at 06:00
Thanks for that. I've done a little more research and have decided to go with a trutrack diff up the front. I would prefer the noslip but I've got an 80 series auto in my troopy so it's now constant 4wd. With the noslip in the rear and a trutrack in the front I think it should perform pretty
well. Improvement on standard anyway. My old GU was the opposite noslip up front and the standard but very effective LSD in the rear. It transformed the car. Worst case scenario it went from having only two wheels driven to three which makes a massive difference when
rock crawling or in big bog holes. I'm setting up the troopy for a big trip from London through Central Asia to Cape Town so will not be intentionally looking for bog holes etc. however travelling through Africa, especially around the time we have planned I think it's best to be prepared.
FollowupID:
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Reply By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Friday, Jun 21, 2013 at 09:42
Friday, Jun 21, 2013 at 09:42
Would a properly working LSD in the front diff have any adverse effects on steering in normal (on-road) use? Or in other situations where you wouldn't normally use a traction aid?
Just asking.
Cheers
AnswerID:
513499
Follow Up By: Member - DOZER - Saturday, Jun 22, 2013 at 18:05
Saturday, Jun 22, 2013 at 18:05
if you are part timed, and hubs are unlocked, no change, if you are constant 4wd....a lsd will effect steering, and is not a good idea....
FollowupID:
792330
Reply By: rb30e - Friday, Jun 21, 2013 at 10:03
Friday, Jun 21, 2013 at 10:03
Wow thanks for all the replies guys. Getting bit out of control but anyway. One thing is for certain the LSD in the patrols are very good. Just came out of a GU and the thing was really tight and never let me down. For this reason I only bothered with a locker in the front.
I've opted for the eaton no slip Detroit style locker worked very
well in the Patrol and not a fan of having airlines, compressors and extra wiring going everywhere not to mention the extra cost of the ARB air lockers.
So sounds like putting the LSD in the front is pointless if they apparently wear out so quickly. I've only just bought this car I haven't taken it off road yet so no idea how it performs. The car has 330k on it so I'd imagine its probably given up the ghost.
Would like to do the same as with my old patrol and put a Detroit locker in the front also but my troopy has an 80 series auto in it and is now constant awd.
Are the front diffs really that weak in the 94 model? Sounds like it may be a problem for what I have planned.
Might have to have a look into that.
AnswerID:
513505
Follow Up By: rb30e - Tuesday, Jun 25, 2013 at 18:07
Tuesday, Jun 25, 2013 at 18:07
Alright so at this point I have decided to fit a trutrack to the front and noslip to the rear. I've been reading countless threads about these axle studs shearing. Especially with locked diffs etc. got me pretty worried. Anyway I'm replacing all the studs, cone washers and nuts with new genuine gear. Also saw a post of a bloke, (I forget who, sorry) who drilled out the hub and axle an fitted 4 new, larger, 100 series dowels. I've ordered 8 of these from Toyota for both sides only $8 for the lot!
Anyway what I'm getting at is these bloody dowels are almost impossible to remove from the hub. I've got one out of each and ruined the teeth on my big vice grips trying to remove the other two. Anyone have any tips on getting these stubborn buggers out. I'm gonna try tomorrow getting some heat into them first before pulling. Or last resort make a puller and weld the dowel to it.
FollowupID:
792563