New Landrover Defender Puma engine? Why the change? Are they any good?

Submitted: Thursday, Jul 25, 2013 at 23:29
ThreadID: 103412 Views:8643 Replies:6 FollowUps:26
This Thread has been Archived
Hi everyone. I'm curious as to why Landrover changed engines in the Defender. And which is the better engine. The TD 5 cylinder. Fords 2.4. Or the new Puma. Whats the Pumas heritage ? As an unqualified observer, I see modest engines towing every thing the bigger engines do, and are very economical. With very good off road ability. I don't own one, I'm seriously looking at them as my next vehicle. I only buy well set up 2nd hand vehicles. Without belting the crap out of them, what are your thoughts please ?
Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: mountainman - Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 00:30

Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 00:30
throw up some decent info would be a good start..

you wont find many interested in the defender..
a few, but very limited.

regarding the puma engine...
power/torque..
common rail ? 4cyl or 5 ?
blah blah blah..
AnswerID: 515382

Follow Up By: The Landy - Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 08:17

Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 08:17
Well, I must admit to be a Defender fanatic, I've got two...

Value for money versus the alternatives it offers some great potential, especially the Defender 130, with its payload, you'll be hard pressed to find similar.

And I'm not so sure that many won't be interested, but then I have a bias, mind you, seeing a lot more on the roads these days.

0
FollowupID: 794647

Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 10:10

Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 10:10
mountainaman , decent info ?? The man is asking for information , not how many are interested , If he already knew the power /torque /common rail /cyl no's + figures he would not be asking .......
0
FollowupID: 794654

Follow Up By: mountainman - Saturday, Jul 27, 2013 at 20:53

Saturday, Jul 27, 2013 at 20:53
im pretty sure the person is asking for its pedigree.
if they knew of the "puma" engine they would know of some facts.
cylinder and power output.
but everyone's an arm chair expert here aye..

its past your bed time..
0
FollowupID: 794728

Reply By: DiscoTourer - Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 01:05

Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 01:05
Bob,

You are better off hopping onto aulro.com and going to the deefer section. You will find sensible answers there.

As was said today by you a Toyota driver : "you will find that people that don't own them know of lots of issues, but those who own them are generally happy. I have no idea why this is"....is so true for other brands.

Brett....
AnswerID: 515383

Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 06:02

Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 06:02
Bob, as the person who said that in relation to a Landcruiser, I totally agree with Brett.

You will get much better informed advice from specialist forums, in this case Aulro than here, where you will tend to get more uninformed bias, mate of a mate, my son had one type crap.



1
FollowupID: 794644

Reply By: The Landy - Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 08:20

Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 08:20
Bob

They have been around for a while, and by all accounts most that I speak with are happy.

Mind you, I have much older Defenders, and the 130 has a brand new International 2.7, which runs great.

But pop into the the Australian Landrover forum, you'll see some great discussions on the Puma.

Here is a link to kick you off.

Defender 130 - TD5 or Puma
AnswerID: 515385

Follow Up By: Bob W5 - Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 10:44

Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 10:44
Hi Landy. Thanks for the link. I won't say what I currently own. Two people in my 4wd club have Defenders, one since 2002 bought new, both have had a really good run with them, when you 're in a club you tend to hear if there are any issues with any vehicle, that's what we discuss. I like the 130 in TD 5 form. I'm in no hurry just like researching. I have no problem with my 4wd at the moment just exploring a different direction.
0
FollowupID: 794656

Follow Up By: The Landy - Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 12:41

Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 12:41
I bought a 1995 Defender TDi300 and customised it completely in 2006, and recently just exchanged the engine for the 2.8 ltr International, which has been a great upgrade for it.

A link follows.



HS 2.8L TGV TURBO DIESEL
1
FollowupID: 794663

Follow Up By: garrycol - Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 13:40

Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 13:40
No matter how much you like that engine the engine is not relevant to the discussion - it is an aftermarket engine that is not freely available - might was well talk about putting in a TDV6 which has been done and is a far better engine again.
0
FollowupID: 794668

Follow Up By: The Landy - Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 17:36

Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 17:36
Yes sir, understood!
0
FollowupID: 794680

Follow Up By: Bazooka - Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 21:45

Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 21:45
He's not a fan of the "mystery house" option Landy. If it's not too rude what was the replacement cost?
0
FollowupID: 794695

Follow Up By: The Landy - Saturday, Jul 27, 2013 at 14:17

Saturday, Jul 27, 2013 at 14:17
Hi Bazooka

It will set you back circa $15,000, +/-, depending on what else you have done.

And whilst it might seem a lot to spend on a vehicle of this age, our requirement when we rebuilt it in 2006 was to keep it simple, no electronic gadgetry. We have customized the vehicle for long-range independent travel and it works perfectly well and suits us. But I was looking for an engine upgrade…

And worth the engine is freely available.

One of the reasons we wouldn’t consider the TDV6, that Garrycol highlights, is because it requires electronics. Now I’m sure modern day electronics are fine, but simply wasn’t for us when we went down the path of customizing this vehicle.

You’ll find it would take a few modifications to fit it to a Defender, it won’t be a bolt-in like the 2.8.

Cheers
0
FollowupID: 794718

Reply By: Nomadic Navara - Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 08:36

Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 08:36
Apparently the motor is not a Puma, it's a Ford Duratorq engine, commonly referred to as Duratorq. See this link
PeterD
Retired radio and electronics technician

Lifetime Member
My Profile  Send Message

AnswerID: 515386

Follow Up By: olcoolone - Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 09:22

Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 09:22
Puma was the inside name given to the engine platform by the designers and engineers , later to become the Duratorq........ Puma was like a code name.
0
FollowupID: 794650

Follow Up By: member - mazcan - Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 11:34

Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 11:34
hi novadic navara
0
FollowupID: 794660

Follow Up By: member - mazcan - Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 11:55

Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 11:55
and bobW5
sorry don't know what happened started typing and next thing its sent
yes your info is correct---- peter and olcoolone
now ill continue a mate of mine has the new defender bought it in april this year
when I enquired as to its engine origin he told me its a ford duratorq 2.2lt diesel
he has done a couple of trips in it and he said it goes really well and has plenty of grunt and very economical and drives and rides well

he has had 2 previous model defenders and has had a trouble free run
he still has the oldest one he uses for a hack on his hobbie farm
and the other one has passed onto his son and is in excellent condition he also has a range rover diesel without problems
he cant understand why so many people have so much trouble and slag the them
he believes a lot of its abuse and poor maintenance that's the main cause cheers
0
FollowupID: 794661

Follow Up By: Road Warrior - Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 12:38

Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 12:38
Is this the same 5cyl engine used in the Ranger/Mazda BT50?

0
FollowupID: 794662

Follow Up By: DiscoTourer - Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 13:21

Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 13:21
Road Warrior,

No it's the 4 cylinder version.

Brett....
0
FollowupID: 794667

Follow Up By: AlanTH - Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 17:29

Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 17:29
The 5 cylinder (Td5) engine was a LR designed and built engine and the 2.4 and 2.2s are Fords.
I've had both and the Ford 2.4 has definitely got plenty of power and suits the vehicle well.
I've had 1 Disco 300Tdi, 1 Defender 300Tdi, a Td5 and the 2.4 Tdci Puma and only had one problem (Td5 tpo) which caused us grief but LRA were great in their response.
My son wishes he could say the same for his LC200 and Tojos attitude.
Oops! Shouldn't have said that, didn't mean to start a war.:-)
AlanH.
0
FollowupID: 794679

Follow Up By: DiscoTourer - Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 18:19

Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 18:19
Alan, my TD5 D2 2000 went bang at 76 kms (not 76000)....3 hours after I picked it up.
I have gone full circle since then with both Nissan and Toyota, and now back with LR. The Jag engine in my D4 has survived 45000 without going bang, unlike the LR engine.

Brett...
0
FollowupID: 794682

Follow Up By: olcoolone - Saturday, Jul 27, 2013 at 12:44

Saturday, Jul 27, 2013 at 12:44
We have a 2002 TD5 coming into the workshop on Tuesday for a leak at the back of the water pump, went to order parts... the water pumps comes in three parts, the water pump, the o'rings and the rear housing.

No water pump in Australia, no o'rings in Australia but they have a rear housing.... asked if the rear housing came with o'rings and they said it should, got the housing and no o'rings.

Had to order the o'rings ex UK.... more delays.
0
FollowupID: 794714

Follow Up By: garrycol - Saturday, Jul 27, 2013 at 12:59

Saturday, Jul 27, 2013 at 12:59
You obviously do not know where to shop for Landie parts in Aust - but if you have to order from interstate it will be quicker and cheaper to get from the UK.

Garry
0
FollowupID: 794716

Follow Up By: olcoolone - Saturday, Jul 27, 2013 at 20:54

Saturday, Jul 27, 2013 at 20:54
I would sooner purchase genuine part as I'm not an expert on every aftermarket part available to suit every vehicle, the o ring kit is $15.00 and the rear housing is $55.00, why would I want to save a bit of coin and supply an inferior part of unknown quality and warrant it?

Besides that I can spend 2 minutes on the phone chasing genuine parts or 1/2 an hour chasing non geniune, at $100 plus per hour I know what my customer would prefer..... sure higher value items are a bit different.

The Parts are coming from the UK , five days from order to delivery.

0
FollowupID: 794729

Follow Up By: garrycol - Saturday, Jul 27, 2013 at 23:26

Saturday, Jul 27, 2013 at 23:26
Most aftermarket parts will be genuine landrover parts.
0
FollowupID: 794741

Follow Up By: olcoolone - Sunday, Jul 28, 2013 at 09:42

Sunday, Jul 28, 2013 at 09:42
The they are not aftermarket parts.
0
FollowupID: 794757

Reply By: Member - Magic (VIC) - Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 20:27

Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 20:27
We have a 2011 2.4 Puma 90 and have had a trouble free run with our Defender. Ford Transit engine and it always holds it's own when up against the big Nissans and Toyotas in our club. People are always surprised where it can go.
AnswerID: 515419

Follow Up By: Bob W5 - Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 23:09

Friday, Jul 26, 2013 at 23:09
Thank you to all who answered my questions. And to those that didn't. Happy travels.
0
FollowupID: 794702

Reply By: 4wheeler - Saturday, Jul 27, 2013 at 22:41

Saturday, Jul 27, 2013 at 22:41
I had a 2007 2.4 Defender 110 up until last year. It has the best off road ability of any 4x4 I have owned. Nothing I did stopped it.

The Puma engine is as others have suggested is just a "family" of engines. The Transit and Defender use the 2.4 and 2.2 engines while the Ford Ranger and Mazda BT 50 use the 3.2 and 2.2. In fact labels on the Defender chassis have "Puma" on them.

In 2007 Land Rover updated the Defender with new interior, dash and engine. The excellent BMW derived TD5 (not Land Rover - BMW owned Land Rover for a short time) was deleted and as Ford also owned Land Rover for a few years, it put Ford derived engines into the update model. They now have a 2.2 engine to meet emissions laws of Europe.

Power was around 92 Kw with 360 Nm torque. While power seems low for some reason it seems beefier on the road. My Defender had plenty of go in it and I had a good run with mine. Only had to replace a clutch as the 2007-2008 models had a faulty clutch spring problem and was replaced under warranty.

Heaps of accessories are available from the U.K. Seating can be something you either like or hate. I found it comfortable, but I am not big framed.

The Defender is definitely on the truck side of 4X4,s and is basic. It is built to do a job and it does it very very well. The gearbox is a Getrag MT82 6 speed manual with low reduction gearbox, constant 4X4. The same gearbox (or near enough) is used in the current manual BT50 and Ranger. It has a good traction control system, anti stall which works very well in low box and ABS brakes. That's it for safety. No air bags.
Turning circle is huge and the vehicle is high which means some carparks are out of bounds.

The Defender is not for everyone and is not perfect. The 2007 models have steel doors, bonnet, and rear door. Other panels are aluminium. Stock clearance is the best in the business and there are not many 4x4 that you can drive from the showroom to the desert and not have to think about it.

I currently own a 2012 BT50. When/if the new Defender comes out supposedly in 2015/2016 I'll be in the showroom quick smart if it has half the heritage of the current model.

Also check out www.Defender2.net for more info as well AULRO.










AnswerID: 515460

Follow Up By: garrycol - Saturday, Jul 27, 2013 at 23:24

Saturday, Jul 27, 2013 at 23:24
Sorry - the TD5 was not a BMW engine as its design predates BMW ownership - it was a Landrover designed engine - a development of the four cylinder L series diesel used in the first Freelanders and other Rover cars.

It is not of the same family of engines as the TD4 engine in the later Freelander 1s which was a BMW four cylinder engine.

Garry
1
FollowupID: 794740

Follow Up By: The Landy - Sunday, Jul 28, 2013 at 08:22

Sunday, Jul 28, 2013 at 08:22
Hi 4Wheeler

At the time BMW acquired Landrover the company it had three diesel engines under development, a 4,5,6 cylinder version. Landrover, under BMW ownership continued with the 5 cylinder TD5, but dropped the other two.

So it was developed and completed by Landrover, but in the later stages of its development the company was owned by BMW. This has often led to some confusion on who made it.

Cheers...
1
FollowupID: 794748

Follow Up By: 4wheeler - Sunday, Jul 28, 2013 at 09:19

Sunday, Jul 28, 2013 at 09:19
Yes, you are right. I realised after posting that I might have been wrong on this point so I checked and found that that I was, hence this reply.

Sorry for the inconvenience caused.

1
FollowupID: 794753

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (13)