Hiclone and my Jackaroo

Submitted: Monday, Feb 09, 2004 at 23:12
ThreadID: 10408 Views:2347 Replies:14 FollowUps:5
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Howdy all, I am relatively new to this forum and am having a great time searching through looking for information on how to set up, drive and get the most out of my 1999 Jackaroo TD Manual. I have also searched on 'Hiclones' and located battle after battle between contributors. I have decided to join the ranks of 'suckers' to see if I can get more power and better economy out of my vehicle.
I have decided to have two hiclones fitted, as per supplier specifications. A mechanic a Lonsdale (I am from S.A.) will supply and fit them for $330 (substantially less expensive than a local 4wd chain). I remain cynical, but I have negotiated a 60day warranty, and figure that if they don't work then I WILL get my money back, on principal if for nothing more.
There has been much said about "the power of positive thinking", many have suggested that any benefits of these 'magic' pieces of steel are all in the mind. I can say that I will definitely not be driving any more economically, as I already drive as economically as possible without having drivers behind me honking and giving me the finger.
I also plan to hit a hill at exactly 60km/h at a fixed landmark and accelerate full throttle in 4th and time exactly how long it takes me to get to a further landmark. Correct me if you want, but I beleive that if i do this three times before I get the hiclones installed, and then three times after, on the same day with the same weather/wind/tyre inflation conditions etc, then that should give me a fair idea as to whether or not the hiclones are doing anything power wise.
Economy I agree is slightly harder to distinguish a difference with, because during the lenght of time it takes me to near empty a fuel tank, engine/weather/wind/tyre pressure all can change. But I have a fair idea that I am getting about 12.2 l/100lm on average doing 100km/h (with roofracks and air con on), and about 13.5 around town. (I am slightly disappointed with these figures as I expected better). It seems that when towing our Cavalier off-road camper( about 600kg) into a 30 know headwind doing 100km/h the worst fuel economy I can get is 14.7, which I'm sure some of the petrol owners will be slightly green about.
So, basically what you've got is a cynic taking a punt. I'm kind of hoping I can back up my cynicism with no benefit from the Hiclones whatsoever, but you can be assured that if I do get a positive result it will not be 'all in my head'.
I will keep all posted about what happens performance wise.
P.S. I do not plan to put the Jackaroo on a dyno , and I can't justify the cash for something I don't think will work, but if anyone has access to a free dyno I am more than willing to take the time to provide my car for testing.

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Reply By: donk - Monday, Feb 09, 2004 at 23:35

Monday, Feb 09, 2004 at 23:35
D Jack

Just as a matter of interest where are the hiclones located in the air inlet tract

Can you describe as follows for example air cleaner-hiclone-turbo-hiclone-inlet manifold

Regards Don
AnswerID: 46091

Follow Up By: D-Jack - Monday, Feb 09, 2004 at 23:53

Monday, Feb 09, 2004 at 23:53
Donk - I haven't actually had them fitted yet, but I understand that both go between air cleanerand turbo. Have been told that further advantages can be had by putting one or two in the snorkel!

By the way, the distributor in Qld (I think) says he has 12 Hiclones in his V8 explorer, basically everywhere improved airflow will help. He recoons he gets about 33 MPG towing his 1.5T caravan with it. Don't know whether to believe him or not, but figures are impressive.

Will let you know exactly where the Hiclones are positioned as soon as I've seen the mechanic put them in.

D-Jack
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FollowupID: 308024

Follow Up By: V8troopie - Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 01:05

Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 01:05
When you sit back and think about it, what will happen to that nicely spinning air flow when it hits the turbo blades? Start spinning the other way??

Or, if no turbo is fitted, what will happen at the small gap of the inlet valve(s)? Does that spinning air wrap itself nicely around the valve stem and continue down, still spinning, into the combustion chamber?

Assuming its a car (petrol) with injectors, does that spin atomize the injected fuel even more? If its a diesel you'd need a power boost (turbo or blower) to get more air into the engine, a Hiclone does not fit that category.

Call me a cynic but to my way of thinking one improves air flow by lessening the air resitance (bigger passages, polished surfaces, no sharp corners, etc.) but not by putting in restictions, however thin, and expecting the faster spinning air to react smoothly with the rough surface of a typical manifold casting.

The only place spinning air can be beneficial is in the cyclonic pre cleaners fitted to snorkels. But even these put in an air restriction and the engine will get more air with a ram snorkel intake.

You could do a simple static test if you have an anemometer (wind speed).
1. Hold it at the air intake, car stationary, and see how far it spins up at a certain REV setting.
2. Repeat with Hiclone fitted and note difference.
3. Report results here.

Good luck with the test and I do hope you get the money back ;)

Klaus
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FollowupID: 308029

Follow Up By: D-Jack - Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 13:03

Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 13:03
V8troppie,

you don't have to convince me it won't work! However, the distributor gave a reason (excuse) as per turbo diesels - saying that the Hiclone will actually minimise the turbulance (random air activity) before it hits the turbo, hence when the turbo does suck it in it the air will be in a form which is more friendly for the turbo to process. Don't know much about that sort of stuff, but that's the explanation he gave. Anyway, if I don't get an improvement in the hill test (after 3 runs without the Hiclones and 3 runs with the Hiclones), or there is no significant drop in fuel consumption (I'm talking at least 1l/100km reduction), then I'll pack them up and get my dosh back and absolutely bag them for the rest of my life on this forum!.

D-Jack
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FollowupID: 308062

Follow Up By: Member - Bradley- Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 18:19

Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 18:19
Nice concise answer, mr troopie, lets not even think about the effect the intake resonance pulses would have !! AS for promising that the boost will come on earlier without removing back pressure from the exhaust, well that would mean that they are altering the pressure ratio of the turbo and the engine would end up overboosted at normal revs. Hmm ..

Zoom magazine recently did a good series of dyno tests using a normally aspirated gen3 and also a boosted gen3, using different styles of induction hardware - pipe length / shape etc. and needless to say the vortec blower with the 'turbo' style impellor responded best to an inlet pipe with minimal bends and no restriction. As we would expect.

Last time i was in the landsvale pits at the v8's i didn't see too many hi-clones fitted. LOL LOL

By the way what v8 / trans have you got in the troopie, as one of my pipe dreams for my next ride is a newish troopie with a 4Lt quad cam lexus motor, or a pristine 80 series with the same v8. Cheers mate.Moo... everyone knows what a Jackaroo looks like :-)
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FollowupID: 308093

Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 08:21

Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 08:21
I have some swampland err Prime realestate in Qld Im selling....
AnswerID: 46110

Follow Up By: D-Jack - Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 13:04

Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 13:04
Truckster, how much do you want for your "prime real estate" in Qld? Sounds like a great place to go 4wding! I hate developments!
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FollowupID: 308063

Reply By: Member - Bob - Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 08:49

Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 08:49
D-Jack,
that sounds like an interesting experiment. Did you know that the gold standard experiment is the randomised double blind crossover trial? For that you would need to do several runs with and without (crossover) the hiclone, but importantly, the driver and the person conducting the measurements wouldn't know until afterwards which runs were with and which were without the hiclone.Bob
AnswerID: 46114

Reply By: adrian222 - Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 09:00

Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 09:00
I want one for my vacum cleaner.

Adrian.
AnswerID: 46116

Reply By: Gajm - Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 10:31

Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 10:31
I want one on a tripod for above the campfire, it should make the fire hotter, and the smoke no longer blow in your eyes, but straight up. and i am quite sure it will even require less wood to burn!

Glenn
AnswerID: 46126

Reply By: Davoe - Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 11:37

Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 11:37
Bloke on the overlander forum conducted what appeared to be a quite thoruogh test after fitting a hiclone (I think it was to an 80 series) he conducted comparitive test over 000s of k and determined they did not work. Be very wary of unconditional warranties as it is still up to you to prove they dont work which will be immpossible unless you have the money to conduct tests to australian standards
AnswerID: 46129

Reply By: D-Jack - Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 12:55

Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 12:55
Thanks for all your replies guys - most helpful - NOT! I say again though, I am a cynic on these Hiclone things. I will be looking for them to fail the test, not the other way around.

Getting them installed today.

Regards

D-Jack
AnswerID: 46138

Reply By: D-Jack - Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 12:55

Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 12:55
Thanks for all your replies guys - most helpful - NOT! I say again though, I am a cynic on these Hiclone things. I will be looking for them to fail the test, not the other way around.

Getting them installed today.

Regards

D-Jack
AnswerID: 46139

Reply By: D-Jack - Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 13:08

Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 13:08
Guys and Gals,

The other thing I forgot to mention was the distibutor promised me a reduction in the revs at which my turbo would load up and whisk me away. He said up to 700rpm reduction, but if these things do work then I will be able to tell, because other TD Jack owners will be able to sympathise with me , when the the Turbo takes off it really takes off, particularly noticable when the engine is cold - for me it is at 2100rmp. Will let you know if this changes too!
AnswerID: 46141

Reply By: Mixo - Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 13:22

Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 13:22
To think that one or 10 of these things could have the slightest affect on economy/performance if installed before the turbo (and even in the snorkel ...yet)or after the turbo, or anywhere, is plain mad. Pulease !The car, the boat, the camper, the radios - is that all there is to life ?
AnswerID: 46143

Reply By: jeff-wa - Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 13:59

Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 13:59
My 3.0l TD Surf had two installed by the previous owner, I have never removed them but get the same if not worse economy as all of the guys on the Australian Surf Owners Association. Don't know about the power, but economy is certainally not any better!
AnswerID: 46146

Reply By: Member - StevenL - Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 15:59

Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 15:59
Sounds like there are a few us eagerly waiting to see if this thing makes a whit of difference to your vehicle. I had a look at the web site and it is full of the same sort of unsubstantiated feel-good heresay as the Bi-Tron bloke's site.

You would have to be keen to put 12 of them in. Where would you put them all? Maybe he drags at Eastern Creek on the weekends?

StevenLPlaydoe GXL TD Manual
It's on order, Delivery in April '04.
This pic will have to do till then. Can't wait!!!
AnswerID: 46160

Reply By: Rick Blaine - Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 19:21

Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 19:21
These Hiclones sound just like the "tunit" devices.... Just wait to try & get your money back when the results dont support the thery
AnswerID: 46190

Reply By: Patroleum - Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 20:46

Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 20:46
Sorry to say it, I have not heard of a genuine positive outcome. Don't worry about
economy , your figures are great. You would love them if you had a patrol 4800.

Steve
AnswerID: 46214

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