3 ltr turbo nissan V 3ltr toyota.

Submitted: Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 10:21
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My 2004 patrol with 198000klm blowing blue smoke on start up. I posted about a month ago and got good advice.
Now is decision time and it looks like it has to go.
I pull an 18ft pop top for about 3 months of the year and have done all the hard 4wding i want to but still need to able to do the basic outback tracks.
Looking for Something with about 40000 on the clock and at least 1 year warranty left .
Have always been a patrol man BUT would appreciate any advice.
thank you,
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Reply By: DiscoTourer - Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 12:38

Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 12:38
I reckon you might know or expect what the reponses will be....

Lets see how rough or how kind they will be.

AnswerID: 517403

Reply By: blown4by - Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 13:52

Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 13:52
Why not re-ring it?
AnswerID: 517406

Follow Up By: Albany Nomads - Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 14:13

Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 14:13
Or valve stem seals
FollowupID: 797038

Follow Up By: fence - Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 14:27

Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 14:27
I am no petrol head but new rings is exactly what i thought.
I have talked to Nissan and Talked to a good diesel mechanic.
Both have said they won,t know the problem until they open it up and it could get up about $10000 for a rebuild.That does not seem financially viable however i have given it thought as the truck has everything i need on it.Then i begin to wonder about the rest of the running gear??..I now know for a fact that some 2004 models have a tendency to have cracked piston heads at about 250000 or less.Mine runs ok so am guessing that not prob at present.
I pointed out to Nissan some time ago that there appeared to be far too much oil in the hose to the turbo.Their answer was thats ok, nissan turbo,s push a lot of oil and said they actually changed the hoseclamp on all models to stop the oil weep.
Looked at a 2010 model the other day, 55000 on the clock, had most of what i needed , just traded in, motor not cleaned and low and behold the telltale weep was there??
does anyone have an opinion on the 3ltr Toyota or are all 3ltrs just underpowered for the job.
FollowupID: 797039

Follow Up By: Ross M - Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 16:51

Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 16:51
If the engine doesn't use very much or hardly any oil then it won't need rings.
If the smoke is only at startup after it has sat for a while then it will most likely be just valve stem seals which harden and don
t snugly cling to the valve stem anymore, when that happens the seals let a little oil down the valves and it iis burnt as bluish smoke when you start.

Next issue is the quality of the oil you use, depending on type and the oils ability, it may assist with the blow by amount if you use a well recognized world wide accepted brand of oil and not boutique, trendy retail oils which begin with P or V and some Castrols too. These latter oils are often pushed/promoted at Supercheap and Repco and other auto parts stores.

Instead of re ringing it,try the oil option, you may replace serviceable rings and still have the problem of blowby.
Which oil is being used at present?

If dealer serviced it is highly unlikely to be a quality oil and that may be the problem.

It is strange dealers ie Nissan and diesel mechanics never appear to consider the oil first and the repair as a second option.
A Prof Julius Sumner Miller said, "WHY IS IT SO".

Ross M
FollowupID: 797044

Follow Up By: fence - Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 18:32

Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 18:32
sorry Ross M. got distracted and didnt reply.
Vehicle has always been dealer serviced except for 4 or 5 times when away.
Unfortunately for me, because i had done a couple of days very hard sand driveing in the past 6 months , i decided on the big service just 2 months ago, even though it wasnt required.
Which oil do you suggest and i will do it tomorrow.
thank you.
FollowupID: 797050

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 19:37

Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 19:37
I agree with ross M.
Lots of people have variuos troubles with small diesels that get a hell of a lot better when they change to an oil that agrees with the vehicle.

Don't believe for a minute that the dealers use top spec oil.

here is a story several will tell you.....

Caltex delo, Shell rimular, Mobil devlac, in no particular order are three of the best diesel spec oils you will buy.....and they are multi-fleet oils so they will run damn fine in your petrol vehicles too.

Check the owners manual the required oil grade will be in there, most probably 15w40.
If it is a pre common rail diesel you will need the JASO DH1 spec in your brand of choice.....in Caltex that will be dello400.
If it is a post common rail motor..unlikely if it is an 04...you will need the JASO DH2 spec in caltex that would be dello LE.

If you buy well you should get any of the above for under $100 for a 20 litre drum...shop where the truckies shop.....a diesel parts shop, a transport coridor servo with high volume pumps or a oil company fuel depot.

Don't be fooled by the price...these oils are used in huge volume by the transport industry and will outspec many better known, much higher priced oils...even in the same brand

Some people have reported that their vehicles that blew smoke, used oil and spat crud into air filters and the like came good after changing to one of the oils mentioned above.

Also remember that diesels like a good stiff work out, so an oil and filter change followed by at least a 4 hour highway run can often work wonders.

As for the cost of a rebuild.......don't ask the dealer......hell, come in spinner...go direct to a reputable engine re-conditioner with experience in small diesels and see what they say.

besides apart from blowing a little smoke on start up, is there anything wrong with the engine?

FollowupID: 797053

Follow Up By: Ross M - Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 21:17

Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 21:17
Bantam has listed all you need to know. He also knows the dealer oil isn't going to be a "performer" and may be the blowby problem.

Many many Hilux owners who have used the P---ite, V-----ine and others all report the engine uses less oil, has less blowby, more power, and the oil remains cleaner for longer AFTER changing to one of those world recognized brands..
All this because the oil actually works as it should.

I am always highly critical of dealer servicing as most do not use the highest of anything as it is cheaper for them but same cost to you and less life expectancy for your vehicle. Dealer don't really want your vehicle to last, there is no incentive for them. They cream at both ends, sales and service and hopefully another sale.
When they change their attitudes many peoples problems will be diminished.

Ross M
FollowupID: 797058

Follow Up By: blown4by - Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 21:30

Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 21:30
If you have a compression test carried out this will confirm if the rings are worn. If you only blow blue smoke on start up I agree the valve stems seals are more likely the cause. I use Mobil Synth 'S' 10W-40 which conforms to the Nissan oil spec service bulletin. I do not agree that 3 litre diesels are underpowered. They only appear that way if you exceed the manufacturers rated GCM.
FollowupID: 797062

Follow Up By: Axle - Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 22:38

Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 22:38
RossM,....You have to be kidding with all this waffle...Sorry But!

Yes Dealers use the cheapest of what ever!

But it doesn't mean its all no good!

change the oil before recommended interval.
Oil filtration is ten times more important than what frigin oil your using!!.
How you can say the P oil and the v oil aren't up to it with small motors has got me stuffed"..What about the shell range, Nulon,???? The V oil has been regarded through industry as one of the best for petrol and diesel motors for years&years....I've used every oil imagimable in the last thirty years in earthmoving, and there has never been any noticeable difference between any of them, its only of late with the latest high tech high performing large engines that in the common synthetic oils that there might be a little variation but I doubt it.

Cheers Axle
FollowupID: 797066

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Sunday, Sep 01, 2013 at 11:17

Sunday, Sep 01, 2013 at 11:17
Mate Valvoline has never been the best oil......ever...even more so now it is BPs budjet brand.

British Petrolium ( BP) own both Castrol and Valvoline...interesting that BP no longer market some of the very good oils that came under the BP brand..

AND in the independent tests conducted in the trucking industry, neither Castrol nor Valvoline figure in the top bracket.

What we are hearing is the old, "brand and type of oil doesn't matter line"...oh the alternative and cheaper brands love to push that one.

The fact is..OILS AIN'T OILS Sol.
In the very competitive, commercial, diesel spec market the top 3 oil companies dominate and there is very little to seperate them.
This is a very large volume market and the smaller independent oil companies like Penrite simply can't compete on a price for spec basis.

There are enough of us that have had significant improvements in our vehicles by switching to one of the three top diesel spec oils to prove that it is a fact.

Oil filtration is not 10 times more important than anything......that is a line that has been pushed by certain aftermarket oil filter sellers.

Filtration is important, but if the oil will not suspend the solids and deliver them to the filter, the filter is far less effective.

In diesels particularly the small pre common rail engines, one of the most significant issues is the ability of the oil to suspend soot.
Another is the ability of the oil to clean in behind the rings..where soot accumulates....accumulation of soot behind the rings can result in loss of compression and blowby.

Another issue is the quality of the base oil and a minimum of viscosity modifiers used....cheaper base oil requires more viscosity modifiers to meet spec.

As viscosity modifiers and other additives break down they form sludge......this sludge blocks the PCV circuit and other parts of the engine resulting in oil being deposited in the air cleaner.

As many of us have found, running one of the top 3 diesel spec oils in the correct grade solves or reduces many niggling problems.
Smoke on start up, contamination of air filters, loss of compression and so on.

On another forum I attend, someone comes on at least once a month with a problem with a Nissan or Toyota using oil and blowing smoke after they have changed the oil with some fancy hype marketed oil.

One very common problem is people thinking thicker is better and running 20w50 or thicker oils where 15w40 is speced....some of the small diesels have carefully calcuated drain rates from the head.
The aim is to retain sufficient oil in the rocker compartment for proper lubrication.
If however a thicker than speced oil is used the head drains slower the oil level in the rocker compartment rises and the valve seals ( particularly slightly worn ones) allow a lot more oil to pass resulting in smoke.

time after time the advice is the same, and so is the result.

Now I have mentioned the three commonly available JASO DH1 oils that figure in the top of their group....and oils in that market are so very close in performance.

Castrol RX super does not rate as high as the above 3, but it is not shabby.

My brother until recently ran an MQ diesel that he owned from new it did a lot of very hard miles.
It has had two full engine rebuilds, prior to the first rebuild he was using a fancy upmarket oil.....his long time friend rebuilt the engine both times.....first time the quantity of sluge in the engine was conspicuous......now big brother is pedantic with vehicle servicing and always changes oil on time or early.

The engine rebuilder put him onto RX super over 20 years ago when it was a very competitive oil.
The second rebuild the interiour of the engine was bright & clean.

The good diesel spec oils (RX super included) have very strong additive packages and will run in some engines for 50 000Km and still be well within spec.

Oils aint oils.
And price is not always a good indicator of quality.

FollowupID: 797092

Follow Up By: Axle - Sunday, Sep 01, 2013 at 12:20

Sunday, Sep 01, 2013 at 12:20
Its Good We all have a opinion...lol.

But i'll be paying and using the oil that suits me that's for sure

A truck operater in our area who has thirty trucks running all over the state uses RXSuper,and he says the main reason is its more cost efficient due to the service intervals,.....But he also stated that it does not stop the things wearing out or prevent failure of the unknown.

Cheers Axle

FollowupID: 797103

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Sunday, Sep 01, 2013 at 13:32

Sunday, Sep 01, 2013 at 13:32
RX super is certainly no shabby oil, it has a very strong following in transport still and has had a recent spec upgrade.

BUT I can buy Dello as cheap as RX....both are long drain interval oils...that is what the spec requires.

NO oil will produce mirricles.


Proper suepension of soot and control of sludge are two major issues in small diesels.....both can cause premature failure.

Failure in both are very common problems

All the top spec oils perform very well as lubricants, way better than lower spec oils, and they do so for extended periods and while holding significant soot loading....this is also part of the spec

Use what you like mate..some people just cant be helped.

FollowupID: 797113

Reply By: gbc - Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 15:15

Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 15:15
3litre Isuzu will outlive the pair of those put together, but if you're not too upset about less than 200k from a zd30 you'll be ecstatic with a Tojo.
AnswerID: 517410

Follow Up By: fence - Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 15:34

Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 15:34
Thanks GBC however just realised i havent specified i much prefer a wagon.
FollowupID: 797042

Reply By: garrycol - Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 16:03

Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 16:03
Don't limit yourself to mediocrity - go a Landrover product and have the best.
AnswerID: 517412

Follow Up By: fence - Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 16:17

Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 16:17
If i were 20 year younger and in this predicament i would make the effort however unfortunately not related to Gina or Clive so have got to stay within the $40/45000 mark.
FollowupID: 797043

Follow Up By: garrycol - Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 20:22

Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 20:22
Plenty of stuff in that price range.
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Follow Up By: yarda - Sunday, Sep 01, 2013 at 10:58

Sunday, Sep 01, 2013 at 10:58
If you can hold out a while, Isuzu are going to bring in a wagon version of the d-max, finally a new version of the jackaroo that gives the added pleasure of avoiding Holden dealers!
FollowupID: 797088

Reply By: Tim - Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 16:29

Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 16:29
Rather then poor fuel on the fire Nis V tojo, I will keep it simple. You won't look back. Our work fleet is slowly becoming predominately toyotas and I had to move a patrol just the other day. As I got in and kicked it over I thought to myself, "Haven't missed driving these".
Good luck
AnswerID: 517415

Reply By: awill4x4 - Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 18:31

Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 18:31
Bruce, by all means check out both the Patrol and Prado but don't limit yourself to those two brands and check out a Mitsubishi Pajero.
I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
It may not have the "offroad" credentials of certainly the Patrol but it's a very capable vehicle with one of the best traction control systems on the market as the following video shows. (and that is an NP Pajero which is pre 2007)

Dancing Pajero

The road manners of the Pajero is close to the Prado and certainly better than the Patrol but the engine is a tad noisy compared to the Prado.
Performance wise it will leave both the Prado and Patrol for dead with 147Kw and 441Nm of torque and the 5 speed auto is the same as the Prado and is silky smooth.
You would pick up a mid range 2012/2013 Pajero for the price range your looking at with minimal Kms and a heap of warranty as well.
Maybe it's an opportunity to think outside the square.
Regards Andrew.
AnswerID: 517425

Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Sunday, Sep 01, 2013 at 08:54

Sunday, Sep 01, 2013 at 08:54
Great clip, I love the Paj's, had a 88 a while ago. This really sings the benefits of traction control!
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FollowupID: 797078

Reply By: Axle - Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 20:23

Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 20:23
G/day mate, it sounds like you have had a pretty good run with that engine up to date.

you are aware of the problems those engines have had evidently, I don't think changing oil brands will do jack now, ......I know its hard but drop it like a hot spud and run!...i'd look at a lower k later model patrol, or even the 4.8l petrol. thirsty but you won't be chucking buckets of money at it for a very long time!

Cheers Axle.
AnswerID: 517433

Follow Up By: fence - Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 22:58

Saturday, Aug 31, 2013 at 22:58
10pm. am gunna take two panadol an go to bed.
Thank you all very much for the advice.
I have a lot to think about but will def let you know the outcome.
Happy fathers day, bruce.
FollowupID: 797067

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Sunday, Sep 01, 2013 at 11:23

Sunday, Sep 01, 2013 at 11:23
Fence mate..what have you got to loose.

A couple of oil changes with a stiff highway run inbetween.....cost wot...$200.....its worth a try.

hell lots of small diesels blow a little smoke on start up most of their lives.

FollowupID: 797094

Follow Up By: fence - Sunday, Sep 01, 2013 at 11:31

Sunday, Sep 01, 2013 at 11:31
Will definately do the oil, probably today.
thank you.
FollowupID: 797097

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Sunday, Sep 01, 2013 at 11:44

Sunday, Sep 01, 2013 at 11:44
Do report results after a reasonable time.

FollowupID: 797100

Reply By: ironJosh - Thursday, Sep 05, 2013 at 22:56

Thursday, Sep 05, 2013 at 22:56
You could buy a Toyota, my 1HZ has done 330,000 k's and I was the first to take off the rocker covers since factory to change the valve shims. No smoke :-)
AnswerID: 517707

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