Generators

Also ensure the generator is always earthed preferably with and earth stake and earth lead. A generator that is not earthed, such as sitting on the back of a tradies ute, or poorly earthed, just by relying on ground contact alone, will offer no earth leakage protection.
Regarding brands, I am more than happy with my Honda and was happy to pay the extra for peace of mind, parts availability, warranty and longevity. I have several Honda engines that are over 40 years old and the head hasn't been off one of them yet.

HI blown4by

Sorry, but that info is not correct
The generator SHOULD not be earthed deliberately by an earth stake or any other means
The Rules state :
"An earth stake IS NOT REQUIRED or recommended"

This is in despite of what SOME instruction manuals may say!!!
The only earthing required is by means of the extension lead plugged into the generator to the load
Deliberately "earthing",to mother earth,does not encrease safety ,& can actually do more harm than good!!!

PeterQ

Thanks oldtrack - what are your recommendations then?

HI
I cannot edit, so will add
Earthing the portable generator to mother earth does not in anyway help the RCD to function!!
'DO NOT USE AN EATH STAKE or deliberately earth your portable generator/inverter to mother earth in any way!!

Further to the above :
The Van camper etc, itself also should also not be deliberately connected to mother earth by an earth stake or any other means,

The only earthing required is by means of the earth connection in the power lead[extension lead] to the power outlet!!!
Additional earthing can introduce problems ,without giving ANY advantages!

PeterQ

HI Senna
Apart from having the generator modifiedr & having a RCD or URCD permanently fitted & correctly wired[By an electrician ]

You could have your van RCD changed for a "Universal RCD"
This is a specilal form of RCD which can be used with portable generators & inverter plugged into the Van power outlet
It could also be permanently fitted & connected to the generator
For more info contact '
"info@powerstream.com"

Usual disclaimer
I have no interests in the company, but believe the product to be a great safety device for ALL portable generator users


PeterQ

oldtrack123,
How then do you explain why most portable gen sets, particularly the larger ones, are supplied with an earth stake and an earth terminal to attach the earth lead from the earth stake? I was not referring to the operation of the RCD but the earth leakage protection device ELCB if a good earth is not established.

Hi
You are no doubt referring to portable generators which are Fixed wired into a switch boards Or have a switch board attached, Including a RCD permaneny connected
THEY are wired differently, with connections made in the switch board,to ensure the RCD functions
& do require A Satisfacrory earth that must meet specified requirements

THAT is a completly different situation to the small portable units that RVers' use & how THEY use them


Because the situations are totally different

Incidently, a RCD & ELCB are the same thing


PeterQ

HI
Again an addition to above
A small portable generator ,such as RVers & most tradies use, is not fitted with a permanent RCD/ELCB , so an earth stake has no advantage!!
IF it does have A RCD PERMANENTLY fitted & wired,
internal wiring changes have to be made for the RCD/ELCB to be functional

but an earth stake or diliberate connection to mother earth is "not needed or recommended "as it can lead to problems !!


If the generator is permanently wired into the van with the correct wiring & Switching arrangement, the van RCD will be fully operational, BUT AGAIN "AN EARTH STAKE IS NEITHER REQUIRED OR RECOMMENDED"
PeterQ

Despite oldtrack123's pretty good advice, I would like to take issue with his statement ...

"Incidently, a RCD & ELCB are the same thing"

Both items are classified as circuit breakers. However, an RCD (Residual Current Device) is a device specifically designed to PREVENT DAMAGE TO, AND PROTECT THE HUMAN BODY from electric shock.
An RCD contains a sensing coil that detects any slight current imbalance, and when it is detected, the sensing coil trips the contact and disconnects the power.
An RCD is highly sensitive, and is often subject to regular and often unnecessary tripping, when even the slightest current imbalance is detected.

An ELCB (EARTH Leakage Circuit Breaker) detects current leaking to EARTH, and is designed specifically to PROTECT CIRCUITRY - and NOT the human body.
You can still get a killer shock from a system fitted just with an ELCB.

That is the reason why RCD's are now standard, compulsory fitment, in houses and factories in many States.
They are designed to SAVE LIVES - not SAVE CIRCUITRY.

Oldtrack123 is correct in that an earth is not required with a small portable generator.

Incidently Ron you are splitting hairs – a lot of ELCB’s are residual current devices - designed to trip out around 20 milli amp – but they can be non-residual current devices that use other methods of protecting against electrocution. Oldtrack is correct in saying Safety Switches are ineffective when used on a normal portable generator.

HI Ron

You are refering to a different type of ELCB which in actual fact would have been better referred to as a RVD
One normally used by supply authorities to monitor faults in the power lines to earth


"RCD" is a relatively new term just as that has beenreplace in comon langauge as been replaced by "Safety switch'

If you can obtain a copy of old Electrical wiring rules from around 70s you will find they are referred to as "ELCB" breakers

The RCD monitors the current flowing through Active & Neutral
IF an out of balance of sufficient magnitude [between 10 & 100 miilli Amps depending on situation & type, it trips.

For that out of balance to occur the current must have an alternative path back to the source , which is by means of the Earth system[not necessarily mother earth] to neutral bond


The Earliest form of these way back in the early 60s where referred to as "ELCB" circuit breakers
stands for "earth leak core balance" circuit breakers & worked on exactly the same principles as modern RCDs

The only difference is modern electronics now are used

I actually worked for a company [head service technician] who were Qld Distributers of Klockner Mueller brand in the 60<80s
I had many a problem with cionvincing people they were not faulty when they tripped & that the problem was low insulation values in the wiring ,equipment


PeterQ

Peter - Excellent response, thank you. The definitions, name abbreviations and designs of the various circuit breakers, can most certainly lead to confusion.

I just wanted to clear up the impression that anyone may have gotten, than any CB will perform the same purpose as an RCD.

Cheers - Ron.

HI
Again because I cannot edit I will add to this:
"For that out of balance to occur the current must have an alternative path back to the source , which is by means of the Earth system[not necessarily mother earth] to neutral bond"

That means a CURRENT leakage to earthing system[not necessarily mother earth]from the active, bypassing some of the current from the neutral of the ELCB/RCD causing an OUT of balance in the ELCB /RCD

Nothing to do with voltage sensing

Whole purpose of the basic unit is electric shock protection.

But they can be/ are often coupled with a suitably rated OVERLOAD cb for circuit or equipment protection

A M.E.N System is not necessary for operation

Just a bonded earth to neutral system such as would be done IF the generator was PERMANETLY fitted & wired [in the correct manner] into a van ,motor home , etc


PeterQ

x 2 please. There's a fair few inconsiderate generator owners running around.

I don't understand the concept of free camping, but running a generator for cooling, watching TV etc.

Spend a few dollars on a decent solar installation, batteries, change to LED lighting, outdoor cooking and enjoy...free camping and natural outdoors with the rest of us. ;)

The lead between the genny and the van should never exceed 2 meters in length.

wizzer

Don't be silly Wizzer

wizzer73 posted:
The lead between the genny and the van should never exceed 2 meters in length.

wizzer"

HI Wizzer
Why???
I've never heard of that one
ANY" APPROVED" 3core extenson lead can be used
BUT do not join leads to feed a van /camper etc
'The extension lead shall be in one piec"
No joins or connectors!!

PeterQ

A short lead is just a way of being considerate to fellow campers as olcoolone stated.

wizzer

HI Wizzer
Good
I'll go with that, having been the victim of long extension leads to get the generator away from their location & close to others, on many occasion.

PeterQ

Yes generators can be a decisive issue around the campfire. I dont think people that buy them realize this. Its like a ford holden thing lol.

wizzer

HI Wizzer
I guess it could become a safety issue.
Incorrect use could lead to a broken jaw or worse!!

PeterQ