HICLONE IN JACKAROO SAGA!

Submitted: Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 17:45

ThreadID: 10427 Views:5277 Replies:8 FollowUps:12

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D-Jack

Hello to all of you who are interested.

Phase 1 testing was completed. Stopwatched a fairly steep hill from one fixed point to another prior to installation of 2 Hiclones. Took exactly 31 seconds (a distance of about 700m). Did another section of a hill, took 11 seconds. Repeated these two tests three times each and got pretty close results, within .04 of a second, which proves I was pretty spot on with my start and stop points.

Phase 2 - Got the Hiclones fitted. I am not a techincal person, but what the mechanic chaged me $40 was an absolute ripoff - if after reading this anyone wants to get them installed DIY - you can, with your eyes shut!

Phase 3 - Anyway, drove round for about 15 minutes (to allow the computer to adjust to the difference in so-called airflow), and repeated the tests. NOT A SCRAP OF DIFFERENCE, SURPRISE SURPRISE. Could not hear a difference in the note of the engine, as some have reported. I think the turbo started really pulling me away at about 200rpm earlier, but this could be in my mind. There is no real laymans way to test this, I know.

There was one unanticipated benefit I discovered. I can not tell for sure if it is because of the Hiclones or merely coincidence, but ever since I had a Safari Snorkel installed (about 4 weeks ago) There was a distinct and very annoying resonation (I think that's how you spell it) coming from the general victinity - I could not work out if it was from the A-Pillar, the snorkel itself, where it goes though the front panel or what, but since the Hiclones went in it has completely disappeared. The vibrations only occurred at certain revs - about 2400-2600 and then died, but were even worst in the rev range when decellerating. I have read a little about this sort of problem and it seems relatively common.

Will take out the hiclones at some stage and see if the vibrations come back

Just thought you might be interested. I will be trialling the car on the same hills again in a week or so, so stay tuned (yeh yeh yeh I know conditions will be different but though it would be interesting anyway)

Phase 4 - stay tuned for fuel economy figures and more exciting Hiclone talk from D-Jack!

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Reply By: ianmc - Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 18:06

Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 18:06

Dont wait till you are outside your money back guarantee period like I did.
Friend fitted 2 to his 2.6 petrol Pajero & boosted MPG by 2mpg he claims but may not suit & cannot be tested for every vehicle I guess.

AnswerID: 46175

Reply By: Member - Bradley- Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 18:42

Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 18:42

Hi mr d i just finished replying to your first post, as i expected, no increase. Your hiclones have damped the intake resonance in the system, which is usually done by the manufacturer with their design of intake pipes, i assume your snorkel is connected to the airbox with solid plastic tube, which transferrs the resonance to the snorkel tube, which acts like a speaker port ( hermholtz resonator ) and amplifies the noise. you can try connecting the snorkel to the airbox with a length of rubber hose like tprds from nylex , or silicone hose ( $$ ) , this should absorb the resonance and kill the noise. I have been playing around with the induction on my v6 jack for a while and i can tell you that with the airbox feed pipe removed it howls like a demon when it comes on cam, with the standard pipe thriugh the guard it is quiet, and the instant i attach a short length of tprds to it it is as quiet as a mouse.

Stick to the tried and true methods of removing intake restriction ( unifilter / finer filter etc) and removing exhaust restriction.Moo... everyone knows what a Jackaroo looks like :-)

AnswerID: 46182

Follow Up By: Member - Andrew(WA) - Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 20:22

Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 20:22

brad...

Not sure what you mean?

I have a 3.0tdi patrol and get a resonance at the 2400 - 2600 range. Was also thinking about a Hiclone, but what is it your saying to try, change filters or what???Fraser Island

FollowupID: 308105

Follow Up By: Savvas - Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 20:43

Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 20:43

Hey Bradley,

When you say the airbox feed pipe on your V6, which one do you mean? Is this with or without a snorkel?

I'm interested to find out what induction mods you have made, as I've been toying with the idea of fabricating a cold air intake somehow.

FollowupID: 308112

Follow Up By: Member - Bradley- Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 10:50

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 10:50

Andrew, if you are chasing economy, then change the filter and open up the exhaust, to try and cure the resonance then try installing a piece of flexible rubber tube between the airbox and the snorkel. Manufacturures spend big dollars designing the intake pipes to kill any noise or resonance at the expense of flow, if you have a look at the original air feed pipe to the airbox you will find that it probably had some sort of restriction and strange shapes built in, also why you see strange chambers added on to the induction pipes on some cars. When you remove this pipe then as well as removing the restriction you have opened the door for the induction resonance as well.. You can also try 'lagging' the inside of the snorkel tube with a spray on rubber or similar sound deadening material .

Savvas, at the moment i have been playing with various lengths of pipe fitted to the standard flange on the airbox inlet, with the under guard sucker pipe removed, have tried picking up a cold air feed from the existing hole in the rad support panel near the top but the hole is a bit small, still better than standard set up though. Still need less restriction to the a/f meter / throttle body though, so am going to replace standard pipe to the original airbox and add a second airbox behind ( no second battery so heaps of space) and feed this with cold air from the rad panel, with a shut off valve in line to allow water crossings as per standard. No snorkel fitted if i have to swim i will fit a 'blind' using a tarp. Using a unifilter foam element at the moment, will get another for the new setup. Also going to drop the pipes at the collectors and get the standard restrictors removed from inside the pipes ( can't afford custom headers for a while) Spoke with Bruce Garland a few times and he recommends using a single mandrel bent 2 1/2 system so when stock pipes are stuffed , will do that as well. Some real good potential in the v6..Moo... everyone knows what a Jackaroo looks like :-)

FollowupID: 308189

Follow Up By: Savvas - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 13:29

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 13:29

Bruce Garland would definitely be in the know on these. His competition Jack runs at 250kW without a huge amount of modification over the stock engine.

Have you seen this airflow system from Calmini for the 3.5V6? Wouldn't be suitable for offroad, but then again it wouldn't be too big a deal to swap with the standard airbox when you know that you are headed off the blacktop.

I have a two stage Finer Filter fitted to mine, but for normal city/suburban/freeway running I only use the finer single stage and fit the coarser secondary stage for offroad. Marginal improvement in economy and somewhat detectible performance gain, but that may just be a placebo effect.

I'd be interested in the outcome of removing the restrictors. Let me know how you go at savvas_e@yahoo.com.au.

FollowupID: 308208

Follow Up By: Member - Bradley- Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 09:14

Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 09:14

Hi savvas , had a squiz at that system, it is just a 'pod' filter fitment using a k & n or similar washable element, same as most boy racers fit to their cars, certainly increase flow but have heaps of induction noise and suck hot air from the engine bay. easy to fit though. Better to use a high flow element in the standard airbox and increase the flow into the box ( what i am going to do, but with another element as well ) Bruce certainly knows these things inside and out, his top race engines had a development cost of a million or so, but his 'showroom' class engines are very close to standard. Best thing is the ECU is fully self learning, so any minor mods are automatically re tuned while on the run, When mine is done i will de-power the ecu overnight to reset the base settings, then run it for a few hundred ks to let it learn. Then will get a dyno power run done with a/f readings just to make sure everything is sweet. May have to fit an adjustable fuel reg but hopefully not.. Bruce does a kit for the 3.2 L rodeos which has an opened airbox with element, along with headers ( no restrictors) and full exhaust, returns about 20 KW more at the wheels with the 'small block'. Moo... everyone knows what a Jackaroo looks like :-)

FollowupID: 308309

Follow Up By: WhisperingJack - Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 10:13

Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 10:13

Hi guys,where are these restrictors??,interested in getting a bit better economy/power out of my Jack.

FollowupID: 308317

Follow Up By: Member - Bradley- Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 14:06

Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 14:06

Gday johnny farnham, !! From memory the restrictors are inside the pipes just in front of the oxy sensors, they are like a penny washer with holes drilled around the centre of the circumference, any good exhaust shop should be able to torch em out fairly easily. May get a bit of boom in the pipes afterwards , but its all part of the fun..Moo... everyone knows what a Jackaroo looks like :-)

FollowupID: 308343

Follow Up By: Savvas - Saturday, Feb 14, 2004 at 16:01

Saturday, Feb 14, 2004 at 16:01

G'day Bradley,

I just had a quick look under my Jack. Looks like there are 4 oxygen sensors. One on each side before the cat and one on each side after. Couldn't investigate any further as my wife has just taken off with the car to drop the kids off at the in-laws for the night. (Woohoo! ... but that's another story)

Do you recall whether the restrictors are before or after the cat, and whether they can be dropped out by simply unbolting them? Or do they need to be cut out ?

I'm keen to have a go at this.

BTW ... Bruce also does kits for the 3.2 and 3.5 Jackaroos too. I believe somewhere in the order of $1700 fitted and tuned. Also, there are varying degrees of airbox mods available from his shop depending on how much and what type of offroading the vehicle will do. Supposedly takes the 3.5 out to something like 180+kw just with breathing improvements. The stock 3.5 has been seriously detuned for production. Even more so in the new Rodeos.

I'll be checking around wreckers and Jackeroo World to see if I can get a 2nd hand airbox that I can modify, while leaving my original as is.

FollowupID: 308642

Follow Up By: Paul1 - Saturday, Feb 28, 2004 at 21:33

Saturday, Feb 28, 2004 at 21:33

Hi Folks,
I fitted a Hiclone to a 2.6lt EFI 1990 Jackaroo. I did the k's, as stated to 'clean out the valves' - nothing. I went through several tanks of fuel to test for improvement, and felt that I was too long out of the warranty period to return it. So that was a waste of money. I also fitted a K&N air filter and that DID make a difference in power, but not economy. I had an immediate response after fitting it. I live in a hilly suburb and can really tell the difference.

Paul1

FollowupID: 310390

Reply By: Chris - Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 20:15

Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 20:15

D Jack
I am not surprised at the hiclones not giving you any extra performance. I am however realy interested in them curing the resonation. I too have fitted a safari snorkel, and the vibration at 2000 to 2500 revs drives me absolutely nuts. I have tried everything, including the advice on the post above, but can not cure it. Problem is, that it is a very distict vibration at the very revs that you tend to cruise at. The vibration IS doing damage, as it is continuous and one can even SEE it in the rear view mirror: At 2200 revs the image in the mirror is blurred, and you can feel the vibrations in the dash.

Please give me some specifics on the hiclones, and where you fitted them.

Do you think the vibration will be cured by installing one hiclone only?

Thank you in advance
Chris - 2001 3.0l TD jack

AnswerID: 46194

Follow Up By: Member - Bradley- Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 10:59

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 10:59

Hi chris, you could try taking the snorkell off and getting the inside 'lagged' with rubber by an industrial surface coatings company, or take it to a good professional car audio installer and get them to spray inside it with a good sound deadener like 'sound-off' or 'rockford noise killer blue' At 2200 the induction resonance is the same as the resonant frequency in the snorkel 'chamber' and is causing an amplification of those frequencies. You just need to damp the resonance in the material of the snorkel, plastic would have to be the worst material, thats why all quality speaker enclosures are made of mdf. Should cost less than buying 2 or more hiclones.. let us know how you get on, BradMoo... everyone knows what a Jackaroo looks like :-)

FollowupID: 308190

Reply By: Stephen K - Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 20:36

Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 20:36

Chris.Ihave exactly the same problem with my Jackaroo but my snorkel is an Airtech.Got in touch with TJM (they must be the manufacturers) and they sent me a new snorkel and intermediate tube made of thicker material.This helped but after removing the snorkel,again , to get panel repairs and reinstalling it , the vibration is back.I dont know what else to do about it.

AnswerID: 46203

Reply By: Member - Ken - Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 21:31

Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 21:31

Evening all

I have a 75 series 1HZ troopy that I have had a Safari snorkel fitted to in the first instance and some time later had a DTS turbo fitted.

I have never experienced this vibration/noise thingo that you are talking about.

Is it a peculiar trait to Jackaroos only, or should I be watching for something to happen.

Oh! I had two hi-clones fitted prior to the turbo and afterwards. Did absolutely jack bleep .

They now sit in a cupboard in my garage and if anybody would like them for nothing, you can have them. Just ask.

Regards

Ken Robinson

AnswerID: 46230

Follow Up By: Member - StevenL - Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 21:38

Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 21:38

Based on what's been goin around on this forum lately you probably won't be able to give em away!!!

StevenLPlaydoe GXL TD Manual
It's on order, Delivery in April '04.
This pic will have to do till then. Can't wait!!!

FollowupID: 308126

Follow Up By: MartyB - Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 23:59

Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 23:59

Hi Ken,
I would like to take you up on the offer of the hiclones. I am curious to try them out myself & from what I have read don't feel like shelling out the money for them new.
I live in QLD & would naturally pay the postage.
Please contact me at MartyB@bigpond.com.

Thanks
from Marty.

FollowupID: 308154

Reply By: Old Jack - Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 22:56

Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 at 22:56

at the end of the day the way to prove if these things work is with an engine dyno, test with and without a number of times in test station( no ambient temp change) the graph's will not lie, they say up to X percent increase, fact is it's like pumping up your tyres with nitrogen or using air, it might increase the life of your tyres, on the other hand keeping then at the correct pressure all the time and alining the wheels correctly will increase the life!

happy motoring

AnswerID: 46250

Reply By: cruiser - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 16:03

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 16:03

I bought a Hiclone for my 80 Series (duel Fuel) whilst in Cairns a few years ago and compared the fuel figures for the return trip home against the fuel figures for the trip up (3000K each way) and there was no difference at all. When I rang the supplier in Carns, he referred me to the distributor and basically I was told I am stupid etc and that i had done my figures wrong. Not impressed, I asked for my money back. "No problems" he said, "send it to me"

I sent it back straight to him and when I received no reply or money, I rang and was told that because I bought it from an auto accessory place in Cairns, I had to contact them to get my money back. Guess what their response was. " We don't have it so we cant refund you your money, so you had better contact the distributor". Catch 22 situation, no one wants to accept responsibility.

Long and short of it is, no improvement, no money back and ripped off.

THEY ARE CRAP, DON"T BUY THEM OR HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THEM, EVEN IF SOMEONE WANTS TO GIVE THEM TO YOU.

AnswerID: 46350