Battery SSB drycell AGM (HVT-70ZZD)....Anyone got one of these?

Submitted: Thursday, Sep 26, 2013 at 19:49
ThreadID: 104488 Views:16191 Replies:8 FollowUps:15
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Just wondering if anyone can comment on these Deep Cycle batteries?

I need something to go under the bonnet of myTD cruiser. Heat concerns me but I have no other option...it has to go under the bonnet. This one has been recommended...good warranty!

It's to be used as an auxiliary to run the fridge, CB etc

Any thoughts?

Cheers
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Reply By: Ross M - Thursday, Sep 26, 2013 at 20:47

Thursday, Sep 26, 2013 at 20:47
Andrew
I can't see how it is a DRY cell? AGM isn't dry, it may not have liquid running around but it isn't dry.
Generally AGM/Gell batteries don't like underbonnet heat and don't last.
They will get warm from the charge rate and the engine bay heat will probably be more than the heat limit anyway.
The charge rate will be high if the battery is discharged ie 40% discharge or more and the battery will have a charge rate figure, when not already heated, that shouldn't be exceeded. ie 20amps for a 105AH AGM.
Possibly a marine or alternative wet cell will be much better. With sufficient capacity it will do all you require and won't prematurely expire.

I wouldn't use one under bonnet unless I could keep it cool and not charge it too high a rate of charge.
The Marine or similar will accept the normal alt charge where the AGM won't like it.
AnswerID: 518771

Follow Up By: Andrew(WA) - Thursday, Sep 26, 2013 at 20:57

Thursday, Sep 26, 2013 at 20:57
Thanks Ross

I agree with what you say and interestingly I noted on one of the websites advertising this battery that it is recommended as a Marine fitment...but the dry cell thing is a bit weird being an AGM from what I read.

Can you explain what you mean about " The Marine or similar will accept the normal alt charge where the AGM won't like it."

I know the AGM's don't like heat but what type of battery are you referring to in the 'Marine' type that will accept normal alt charge?

It's a learning curve for me and there's plenty to learn...

Cheers
Andrew
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Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Thursday, Sep 26, 2013 at 21:08

Thursday, Sep 26, 2013 at 21:08
I have been using a Fullriver 120Ah HGL AGM battery for cranking in the OKA for 4 years now. It has now lasted longer than any battery I have ever used before for cranking in this vehicle.
It is charged via an 85A alternator that outputs 14.3V (it is mostly voltage that determines the charge acceptance rate).
It is NOT under the bonnet.

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 Motorhome.
AnswerID: 518773

Follow Up By: Ross M - Thursday, Sep 26, 2013 at 22:27

Thursday, Sep 26, 2013 at 22:27
Peter.
Just interested. Is your 120AH Full River used only as the crank battery or is it also discharged by other gear?
I agree it is the difference in applied and battery voltage which dictates charge inrush. If your battery isn't discharged much at all and it starts easily, then there isn't much difference of charge created and thus minimal heat build up because of the short time before the charge rate settles to a maintenance level. Not being heated is also a plus.
Obviously your usage is within it's capabilities.

I use one of those but not for cranking. Good batteries.

Cheers
Ross M
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FollowupID: 798688

Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Thursday, Sep 26, 2013 at 22:39

Thursday, Sep 26, 2013 at 22:39
Generally the crank is isolated from the house, but sometimes it is used to supplement the house batteries, so can run down a bit in those circumstances. The connection is via a 2 way RedArc which will limit how far down it goes.

It is also used for occasional winching, although I generally link it with the house batteries then as well.

The OKA is a 4L 4cyl Perkins. It generally starts easily, except in very cold conditions, then it can take quite some time (no glow plugs). The AGM has plenty of crank capacity though, despite not being "designed" for such work.

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 Motorhome
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FollowupID: 798690

Follow Up By: Hellun Dong - Saturday, Oct 19, 2013 at 17:44

Saturday, Oct 19, 2013 at 17:44
Hi Peter,

I am Helen Dong from Ningbo Sunshine Energy Co.,ltd in China. Offering SLA Battery with widely application:UPS,Solar system,Marine...and so on. Almost the whole electric equipment. If you are interested in,welcome to contact us with no hesitate. My mail:helen@mybattery.org.

Have a nice weekend.

Best Regards

Helen Dong

Ningbo Sunshine Energy Co.,Ltd
www.mybattery.org
helen@mybattery.org
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FollowupID: 800342

Reply By: The Bantam - Thursday, Sep 26, 2013 at 21:59

Thursday, Sep 26, 2013 at 21:59
There is a lot of complete and utter BS told about batteries in an effort to sell them.

One thing is for sure " ya cana' change the laws of physics , Jim"

So many of the expensive batteries that people are sold for one reason or the other are either not appropriate for the application or work no better than a straight forward good quality battery.

If you are putting it under the bonnet you do not want AGM in any form.

The temperature issue predominates.

My view is that you are better off in every way with a good quaity, sealed, flooded cell marine battery.
They will use many of the methods used in AGM to improve performance but because they leave enough liquid in the battery..thus they they tolerate heat far better...and are half the price.

AND...don't bother about deep cycle either...the whole deep cycle thing is very much misunderstood and over sold too....deep cycle is best suited to long slow cycles and holding charge a long time......they often have limited charge rates and reduced capacity in comparison to similar cranking batteries.

If its under the bonnet and you are hammering it every day.....like people do if they run a fridge....a marine cranking battery is my choice.

look at the supercharge seamaster gold, or the catapillar earth moving battery.....they seem to be the best bang for bucks and have a good following.

BTW...marine...4wd...earthmoving......all more or less the same thing sold in different markets.

On large company sells a yellow battery and a blue battery...both otherwise identical..one as a marine battery the other a 4wd battery....the 4wd battery is more expensive.

cheers
AnswerID: 518781

Reply By: olcoolone - Friday, Sep 27, 2013 at 11:59

Friday, Sep 27, 2013 at 11:59
The battery in question is not a dry cell in the way you think of it being DRY, it's the same as any other AGM battery.

What they mean is it is a dry battery unlike a wet battery that can be tipped over and leak, these you can not spill when tipped over..... call it marketing hype or what you want.

As for quality, we find them very good and have fitted a fair few of the SSB AGM batteries, Mick O has one fitted under the bonnet that has worked well for the last 3 or so years.

There are only two brands of batteries we recommend for deep cycle applications, Powersonic and SSB.
AnswerID: 518801

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Friday, Sep 27, 2013 at 18:31

Friday, Sep 27, 2013 at 18:31
So its not in fact a dry battery in any shape or form..the battery contains wet liquid acid and plenty of it.....it is just that it is mostly contained in the glass mat.

As for top spec genuine AGM batteries, Powersonic have been selling sealed batteries for a long time, but they are not a big name in larger AGM batteries and I have not heard of SSB till this thread.

Seem the SSB is just a brand of a relativly small importer..who knows who make them.



Well regarded AGM battery manufacturers ( companies that own factories) include DEKA, Lifeline, Optima, Exide, Fullriver.

All these names I mention have a solid reputation for making AGM.

AGM is heavily over sold.....the on line marketers like them because they can be freighted reasonably easily.

I do not believe there is any advantage to running AGM in an automotive application and several disadvantages.

BTW 3 years is no recomendation for a lead acid battery......if ya got less then 3 years out of ya battery..its either the wrong battery, the battery has been missued or put in very poor conditions or it was a piece of rubbish.

sorry.

cheers
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FollowupID: 798740

Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Friday, Sep 27, 2013 at 20:12

Friday, Sep 27, 2013 at 20:12
Bantam said:
"I do not believe there is any advantage to running AGM in an automotive application and several disadvantages."

I found that wet cell batteries (including "4WD" versions) fail mechanically in the OKA, probably as a result of vibration and physical 'abuse' caused by corrugated roads.

I suggest that the construction of AGMs where the plates are constrained provide a much higher ability to survive that abuse.

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 Motorhome
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FollowupID: 798745

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Friday, Sep 27, 2013 at 23:48

Friday, Sep 27, 2013 at 23:48
The only difference between a good sealed wet cell rugged construction battery and an AGM of similar quality is the AGM has had half the acid tipped out...dead set.

A good marine / rugged construction battery has glass mats packed between the plates, just like an AGM battery.
A good sealed battery has calcium in the plates and a modified electrolite chemistry, just like and AGM

A good wet cell battery has not had all the surplus acid tipped out after forming..unlike an AGM..this allows the battery to transmit heat to the case and the outside air better and there is sufficient electrolite to tolerate a little loss due to over charging and excessive heat.

If you where having failures in 4WD batteries I sugest it was more to do with the brand you where buying rather than them not being AGM.
Some of the well known brands are known not to be particularly durable.

I don't care what 4wd you have, in the vibration stakes it ain't got nothin' on earthmoving equipment or heavy marine applications.

If you want to spend twice the price for little or no advantage..go ahead.

If you want a realy tough battery, that is AGM and suffers far less from the problems of AGM, look at the cylindrical cell batteries like the Optima.

But it will still be twice the price of a Catepillar or Seamaster gold.

cheers
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FollowupID: 798760

Follow Up By: olcoolone - Saturday, Sep 28, 2013 at 10:03

Saturday, Sep 28, 2013 at 10:03
This post is not about who's the best or even other battery brands.

Always good when a highly experienced expert comes on and throws his wealth of knowledge in.

BTW this thread was about SSB batteries!
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FollowupID: 798771

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Saturday, Sep 28, 2013 at 12:28

Saturday, Sep 28, 2013 at 12:28
This thread like most other battery threads is about battery choice and correct application.

Go back and read the original post.

Like most battery threads the original poster has limited knoweledge of battery technology and the brands available.

All too often customers are offered an average battery sold as wonderful and marvelous, in absence of knowelege of what is on the market.....and in comparison the the poor examples of batteries they have experienced, it may indeed seem wonderful and marvelous.
But in reality it is far from the best choice in the application.

The original poster sought comments.

The fact remains that there is a great deal of miss-information spread about batteries with the specific aim of selling a specific brand.

There are a number of brands that are trying to prove a point of difference between their product and others where there is not one.

Like those consumer battery adds....there is very little to sepearte the major brands of Alkaline dry batteries of the same technology, so the manufacturers compare their battery with a lesser spec battery of their competitor.

In fact there are and have been several sellers of batteries in particular AGM, that make exagerated claims and tell outright lies saying that their battery is some how superiour, when in fact is is a common run of the mill battery and in no better than a fair example of the product with the sellers badge and claims attached.

In particular claims that.

The battery is completely sealed and cant leak.....false...all batteries will leak under certain circumstances.

That the battery can be installed in enclosed places, sealed boxes and interiours of vehicles....again only partly true....all lead acid family batteries should only be charged in a well ventilated situation.

that the battery can be operated in any position...again only partly true...any lead acid battery when installed other than upright can and will vent explosive gas and corrosive liquid and vapour under certain circumstances and very much worse when other than upright

Claims concerning conspicuous advantages of AGM, when in fact many non AGM batteries take advantage of the same technology that allows AGM and infact have all the advantages of AGM and not the specific drawbacks.

Then there are those claiming their battery is AGM, when in fact that is not technically the case.

One importer in Australia, was prosecuted a couple of years ago for selling a battery as AGM that was not....The manufacturer made the very same battery in a number of forms one of which was technically correct as being "true AGM".....but not the battery in question....in fact the battery in question performed in some ways better than the true AGM version.

One American case where an importer was outed as selling the same very average battery they had been importing for many years as varioulsy "sealed lead acid", "AGM" and "GELL" at various times.

Truth is some "Sealed Lead Acid" and "AGM" manufacturers partly gell their electrolite...but because the battery is sealed and has glass mat between the cells, that does not make it "AGM", and a gelled or partly gelled electrolite does not make a battery "true GELL technology"

BTW most failure or disapointment concerning batteries is due to incorrect selection or inappropiate use.....very often because what people believed about the battery they where sold was not correct.

cheers
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FollowupID: 798778

Follow Up By: olcoolone - Saturday, Sep 28, 2013 at 19:03

Saturday, Sep 28, 2013 at 19:03
As I said "Always good when a highly experienced expert comes on and throws his wealth of knowledge in."

Unfortunately most time it only confuses the situation.

Some of us are not a bright as some other EO users...... or maybe we don't want to be.

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FollowupID: 798805

Reply By: Griff61 - Friday, Sep 27, 2013 at 15:15

Friday, Sep 27, 2013 at 15:15
I have 2 SSB AGM batteries in my BT50. 1 is under the bonnet as a crank battery and the other is in the back running the fridge caravan etc etc. The crank battery is now 3 1/2 yrs old and going fine. I was told to get this battery and that battery and went to local battery supplier/maker and then decided on the SSB AGM batteries. Never looked back and will buy the same when they give up in ??? years time.
I bought mine from Independent Battery Distributors in Adelaide.
AnswerID: 518809

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Sep 27, 2013 at 19:20

Friday, Sep 27, 2013 at 19:20
I had the 100Ah "Dry Cell"in the back of my 79series canopy and the 130Ah one in the Tvan. Both have worked faultlessly and I'd recommend them as being a good value AGM. But like Ross had said above, because they are an AGM, don't let them charge at any more than 25 amps because they will vent and lose capacity. And I personally would not mount one under the bonnet. So I've given the 100Ah one away to a friend and use a Century Marine 100Ah wet cell battery under the bonnet of the 200series.
AnswerID: 518820

Reply By: PhilD - Friday, Sep 27, 2013 at 22:35

Friday, Sep 27, 2013 at 22:35
I have a 100 Ahr SSB as a cranking battery and a 130 Ahr SSB as an auxiliary under the bonnet of my 100 series. When I bought them SSB claimed that they had a higher heat tolerance but I can't see that claim on their website now. I have used Powersonic but the SSB in my view are superior. The engine bay gets pretty warm on the 105 LC with aftermarket turbo and intercooler , and the SSBs are living up to expectation. The SSBs were standard fitment for the 200 GX series, but I haven't checked if that is still the case.
AnswerID: 518834

Follow Up By: Andrew(WA) - Friday, Sep 27, 2013 at 22:39

Friday, Sep 27, 2013 at 22:39
Phil...are the SSB's both mounted at the front where they get cool air...or is one located elsewhere in the engine bay where it gets a bit warmer?
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Follow Up By: PhilD - Friday, Sep 27, 2013 at 23:37

Friday, Sep 27, 2013 at 23:37
Both are at front, one on each side.
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FollowupID: 798758

Follow Up By: Andrew(WA) - Friday, Sep 27, 2013 at 23:47

Friday, Sep 27, 2013 at 23:47
that's why they are lasting...I hear others also having much success when mounting AGM's at the front where they get cooler air flow.

My set up is the 2 standard cranking batteries up front with the auxiliary
mounted under the bonnet in front of the passenger seat area right back in the corner of the engine bay.

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FollowupID: 798759

Follow Up By: PhilD - Friday, Sep 27, 2013 at 23:58

Friday, Sep 27, 2013 at 23:58
I have not had the same longevity with other brands of AGM batteries in the same locations it seems due to the heat factor. The SSBs have performed very well so far.
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FollowupID: 798761

Reply By: chisel - Sunday, Sep 29, 2013 at 21:40

Sunday, Sep 29, 2013 at 21:40
I'm in the same situation as the OP. My aux battery under the bonnet of my TD 100 series cruiser just died and these look like a pretty good option.
Certainly this ebay seller makes a big deal of being able to survive under the bonnet http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/12V-AGM-130AH-DEEP-CYCLE-BATTERY-CARAVAN-4WD-MARINE-SOLAR-/300951470801?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item46121b02d1
Quote: "Whether you use SSB DryCell batteries as a starting battery, deep-cycle battery, marine battery, back-up power supply battery or a combination of any of the above, our National Replacement Warranty is unconditional of use."

They aren't the cheapest out there but not overly expensive.

I would love to go to a lithium battery for weight and longevity (15kg for 100AH) but at $1300 for a drop-in-lead-acid-N70-sized-replacement with 100AH (80-90AH is usable) it is hard to justify against the $320 for 130AH (60-80AH usable) AGM.
AnswerID: 518916

Follow Up By: Andrew(WA) - Sunday, Sep 29, 2013 at 21:47

Sunday, Sep 29, 2013 at 21:47
This might help on price..depending on where you live...

http://www.batteriesdirect.com.au/shop/product/10197/ssb-drycell-agm-vrla---cyclic-use.html

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FollowupID: 798878

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