Problems with Super Springs

Submitted: Tuesday, Oct 01, 2013 at 20:55

ThreadID: 104559 Views:8485 Replies:1 FollowUps:11

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Geoff K4

After fitting the super Springs I have a vibration in the D-max I didn't have before. I have a 2011-12 D-max, I fitted Super Springs to raise the rear end a bit as described in a previous post. They raised the rear nicely But now the vibration with low revs.
Any good suggestions to remedy. I used the S4-HD model as recommended. Suits about 400kgs. Probably would be better with the loaded van on, but empty is a problem.

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Reply By: Ross M - Tuesday, Oct 01, 2013 at 21:25

Tuesday, Oct 01, 2013 at 21:25

Geoff K4
The Super has probably not got much to do with it but any spring which raises the rear will cause the rear uni to be operating at far more angle than Isuzu designed it to run, Normally around 3 degrees.
All "lifting" springs make the diff pinion flange to which the rear uni yoke is bolted, further away from the chassis. This increases the drive angle, also, the springs may also be accentuating the problem. Rear axle /spring seat wedges may be required to correct the pinion/uni angle.

Vibes are very very common and short life of uni results. The spring supplier should alert you to this possibility prior to fitment and if they fitted them it shouldn't have left their workshop in that condition. Unfortunately it is very common and few supplier/fitters of this gear care or are prepared to do anything about it until you begin to squeal. Even then, it is often hard to get them to fix what their "superior" springs have caused. Some don't know or won't admit anything is wrong.

You didn't say if the 2011/2012 was the previous or the current shape. Could be either, the rules change a bit for advice on one or the other.

If it has a centre bearing in the tailshaft it may need to be lowered a little to eliminate centre bearing shudder. Harder to do on the 2011 model and easier on the 2012/2013.

If new shape and auto, the front of the one piece tailshaft yoke sliding sleeve may not be engaging into the gearbox extension housing sufficiently and the lift will make it worse. That can be a vibe problem and it fairly quickly will stuff up the rear bush in the box. Some of the 2012/13 model autos have insufficient engagement from the factory even before adding new springs.

Give the front end of the tailshaft a sideways shake and feel if there is any looseness. If any noticeable looseness then it should be rectified. most dealers will tell you it is ok and normal. be prepared for that reply, it is common practice. Just because they say it is ok doesn't mean it really is.

So add a bit more info of which shape body and if manual or auto.

I have a 2011 model and covered a fair bit of the problems so far. Mine is manual with CB and it runs a lowered CB and wedges in the rear axle seats to cater for what you are experiencing.

Cheers
Ross M

AnswerID: 519039

Follow Up By: Geoff K4 - Tuesday, Oct 01, 2013 at 21:47

Tuesday, Oct 01, 2013 at 21:47

D- max is manual dual cab run out model 2012 before the new one came on the market end of 2012. So that's why I wrote 2011-2012.
I'm going to fit a lone ranger fuel tank, so hoping that may lower the rear to somewhere normal?? would that help with the diff issues. or just remove the springs?

FollowupID: 799008

Follow Up By: Ross M - Tuesday, Oct 01, 2013 at 22:11

Tuesday, Oct 01, 2013 at 22:11

You will need the springs extra height/weight carrying ability if you are going to tow and also fit a larger tank. So keep the springs or you haven't gained anything, and the ride height without the springs and also the tank will mean the suspension will be so low you won;t have sufficient upward travel left to absorb road undulations and bumps etc.

You have the same as me and with around 80 to 90mm between the axle tube and the bump rubbers on the rear you will require wedges in my opinion.

If you have a low speed takeoff, pull away shake/shudder, it is the centre bearing flicking sideways in it's housing because the centre bearing uni, (just rearward of the centre bearing) is now operating with too much angle. 1st and 2nd are worst.
It is annoying and will eventually damage and destroy the centre bearing rubber mount if left that way.

The wedges are 120mm long and 60mm wide with a 10mm hole in centre. Usually 3 degrees is required.Mine is 2 1/2 degrees.

Centre bearing needs to be lowered between 15 and 20mm. A special bracket does that. Not available in shops though, they don't know anything about such a bracket.

Are you in Victoria by chance?

About the tank.
When fitting, get the people to place a loop of nylon string around the fuel float and have the two ends come up the neck and out the filler. That way you can connect the electrics and check to see if lowering and raising the float fully as fuel would do to make the gauge work correctly, Some don't and find out afterwards. Pull one string to remove.

Also get them to ensure the fuel pick up is at a suitable distance from the tank bottom. Recently one newly fitted aftermarket tank sucked air when 1/3 of fuel remained in the tank. Excuse was wrong pipes connected. Total rubbish, as all piping is in the OE tank/pump unit base.

PS If you want it to handle replace the front shocks if they haven't already been replaced. I changed mine at long before 10,000km from new. Nice shocks, they just don't work.
Cheers
Ross M

FollowupID: 799012

Follow Up By: Geoff K4 - Tuesday, Oct 01, 2013 at 22:20

Tuesday, Oct 01, 2013 at 22:20

Yes in Victoria, Mildura. Hope the fix is simple enough but you probably need to explain it in a little more detail. I'm ok with DIY. I fitted the springs easily. Can it be used now, or would it do damage on a 800Km round trip?

FollowupID: 799013

Follow Up By: Geoff K4 - Tuesday, Oct 01, 2013 at 22:32

Tuesday, Oct 01, 2013 at 22:32

Forgot to add, yes it's low speed shudder, 1st & 2nd then as speed builds I can't feel/hear it.
thanks for your help.

FollowupID: 799014

Follow Up By: Member - Allan L2 - Wednesday, Oct 02, 2013 at 07:38

Wednesday, Oct 02, 2013 at 07:38

Ross,
What shocks did you use as a replacement?
Cheers

FollowupID: 799026

Follow Up By: Ross M - Wednesday, Oct 02, 2013 at 09:11

Wednesday, Oct 02, 2013 at 09:11

Geoff K4

I'm in the City of "Greater Bgo" or that's what they claim it to be.
If your round 800Km trip is 400 this way and 400 back then we could arrange to meet and you can see what I mean. Is it south/west you are traveling?

If you take off gently is the best and it shouldn't affect the short term use. Usually the centre bearing issue you don't feel after take off but the rear uni being too much angle you will feel as an increasing vibration.

To reduce or eliminate it short term have a decent weight in the back which does of course bring it back to somewhere near OK. Not a everyday solution though.
If you can get some correction wedges, you may have to trim them to size, that would be the best thing for the rear end if it can be done straight away.

You should contact the spring seller and demand wedges to fix the problem they sold you. They must know it will happen if they are not in a coffin.

Allan L2
I fitted Bilstein shocks front and rear, far firmer than the OE which were super soft at 5000km.
The Bilsteins harden up the suspension, though possibly a bit more than some would like. But now it will brake, steer and handle well,
2 24-002585 TOYOTA REAR SHOCK (B46-0258-H1)
2 24-020763 Nissan Front (B46-2076-H0)

FollowupID: 799032

Follow Up By: Geoff K4 - Wednesday, Oct 02, 2013 at 16:59

Wednesday, Oct 02, 2013 at 16:59

Ross M,
Ateco Equipment don't have a fix for the 2011 model, but have one for the new 12-13 model. I did speak with them regarding my problem and they suggested more load in the back or they would swap for a lighter lift spring. It seems 50% of D-max's have the same problem, too much lift causing the low speed vibration.
I checked under the ute, not sure how to lower the centre bearing 20mm as a fixed cross member is holding it up. I don't really want alter the sub frame as it's under warranty still.

FollowupID: 799051

Follow Up By: gbc - Wednesday, Oct 02, 2013 at 18:51

Wednesday, Oct 02, 2013 at 18:51

It's not only d-max. They'll all do it if not lifted correctly. There's plenty over on the ranger/bt50 forums having the same issues. Lowering the centre bearing simply involves longer bolts and spacers on other models. I've seen small piles of washers being employed as a temporary measure until the correct plate can be made.

FollowupID: 799064

Follow Up By: Ross M - Wednesday, Oct 02, 2013 at 19:14

Wednesday, Oct 02, 2013 at 19:14

Geoff K4
Where are you travelling to. I may be able to help if given enough warning time.
So far I have made 5 drop brackets specially for that purpose. A number of members on another forum have them fitted. No alteration to the vehicle is required.

One of them is fitted on my vehicle. I have a MK1 model in bits and that would solve your problem but it doesn't look professionally made.

It does stop the centre bearing uni causing shudder, which is the tailshaft flicking sideways under power pulses as the uni revolves.
The uni output accelerates and decelerates twice every turn, this with too much angle tries to drive the uni and hence the tailshaft off it's centreline of spin.
Any vibes are the rear as mentioned, it too torsionally changes it's rotational velocity twice ever turn. This motion is then transferred to the diff pinion.
If too much and too severe it affects the diff.
Non of this seems to be addressed by the spring/suspension raisers of Australia.

It's not the correctness of the lift, it is the fact that the components ie springs don't allow for the angular change which will occur.
You CANNOT space a pre 2012 Dmax with washers, a dedicated bracket has to be made/used.

Lighter springs just means it sinks down to where the angles are near OE and that then isn't lifted or any advantage to you. A backward move IMHO.
The company don't have a fix because they have never tried to fix it.
ALL, not 50% of the 2011 and earlier models suffer from the problem as the same lift causes the same amount of angular change of the unis.
All makes of vehicles are affected in this way. some people just don't know they have a problem and accept early failure of components as "normal", I don't.

If you are able/happy to post an email address I can send info.
Maybe meet, if traveling my direction.

Cheers
Ross M

FollowupID: 799065

Follow Up By: Geoff K4 - Wednesday, Oct 02, 2013 at 20:35

Wednesday, Oct 02, 2013 at 20:35

Ok, leaving in a day to S.A with van and weight in rear so it should be ok with not much unweighted travel. I travel to Bendigo often so we can catch up soon.
txt mob; 0400213434 for email contact as I do want to have the problem sorted. I need it right. Long range fuel tank will go in after this trip but I don't want to keep it full just for the suspension and unis to be right.
cheers.

FollowupID: 799070

Follow Up By: Ross M - Wednesday, Oct 02, 2013 at 20:41

Wednesday, Oct 02, 2013 at 20:41

Geoff K
Weighted down and towing with ball weight will lessen the effects and will go some way to holding it is check.

All the best with the trip.
Cheers
Ross M

FollowupID: 799071