front locking hubs

Submitted: Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 22:09
ThreadID: 10463 Views:2278 Replies:5 FollowUps:20
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hi everyone,
hope you experts can help here.
Recently while driving on the beach, my Courier got bogged. I noticed that the front wheels weren't spinning at all, only the rears were digging in (and yes my hubs were engaged, and YES i was in 4wd). I jacked up the front with the car in gear and in 4wd and noticed the shaft wasn't turning on the front driver wheel when i rotated it, I assume it should, Does this mean i only have 2wd (problem with the locking hubs?) never been stuck before.
Any help" expensive?
Thanks
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Reply By: Willem - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 22:27

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 22:27
Was your front driveshaft turning?

If your front wheel shafts aren't turning then you either have a differential problem or a transferbox problem. Willem
Out on the Gibber
AnswerID: 46418

Follow Up By: conman - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 22:33

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 22:33
passenger side was rotating and you could feel the hub engage, while drivers side was not rotating( turning the hub to engage made no noise)
i thought that the engaging mechanism (is it a type of clutch?) might be gone. There must be something wrong up front as i got bogged on the entrance road to the beach - approx 10 METRES! and ravs were going past me with ease
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FollowupID: 308275

Follow Up By: Willem - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 22:50

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 22:50
The free wheeling hub engages the wheel to the axle. Both axles should turn when in 4wd mode. If not then your free wheel hub could be damaged. I think that if you had a broken axle it would make an audible noise. A set of fwhubs cost around $250(I think)Willem
Out on the Gibber
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FollowupID: 308285

Follow Up By: Willem - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 22:59

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 22:59
I forgot to add.....It could just be a broken spring that pushes the locking device down on to the axle and is a cheap fix. Take the fw hub off and have a look. Remember to pack it with lots of grease when you replace it.Willem
Out on the Gibber
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FollowupID: 308286

Follow Up By: colin - Saturday, Feb 14, 2004 at 11:29

Saturday, Feb 14, 2004 at 11:29
when replacing the fwh dont pack with grease they are designed to run without, just a spray with silicon spray is all thats needed. Col
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FollowupID: 308587

Follow Up By: Willem - Saturday, Feb 14, 2004 at 12:11

Saturday, Feb 14, 2004 at 12:11
Funny thing colin....been packing FWHubs with grease for as long as I can remember and this is the first time ever that someone has advised to the contrary. Is this a new development or jus another point of view?Willem
Out on the Gibber
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FollowupID: 308588

Follow Up By: colin - Monday, Feb 16, 2004 at 09:55

Monday, Feb 16, 2004 at 09:55
Hi Willem, as far as i know its always been that way have had several 4bys over the years and not one ran grease in the hubs. Have just put new hubs on my GQ and the instructions said no grease just silicon spray. Col
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FollowupID: 308861

Follow Up By: Willem - Monday, Feb 16, 2004 at 10:27

Monday, Feb 16, 2004 at 10:27
Hi Colin, You know you are probably right. I have been doing what I have been doing for so many years I have forgotten why. I lived in Darwin and environs for 20 years and we always used to pack the hubs with grease to stop water from entering in to the hubs and to stop possible rusting processes so that we did not have to do a great deal of preventative maintenance. One year I went out on 26 weekend trips and just about every one would have had one or two water crossings. Thats why I have always packed my hubs with grease.

Cheers,

Willem
Out on the Gibber
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FollowupID: 308864

Reply By: conman - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 23:04

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 23:04
thanks Willem, It feels like its just the hub. Just wondering if one hub does not lock in then will the other? ie is it possible to have 3wd?
Because im sure i only had the rears turning.
Many thanks
Con
AnswerID: 46420

Follow Up By: Roachie - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 23:17

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 23:17
Con,
Not possible to have 3wd unless you had a front diff lock. At present it sounds like you're getting power to the front diff, but then it goes to the path of least resistence (ie: the axle with the stuffed hub). No power goes to the good one. It's the same as having one wheel up in the air.
I recently installed manual hubs on my 2000 Patrol (didn't like the auto-locking jobbies). I used AVM from ARB and the instructions specifically said NOT to add any additional grease to the thinish film that they had on them already. So noy sure whether Willem's idea about plenty of grease is right.....I was going to do that too, but luckily I read the instructions first (and for me, that IS a first!!!).
Cheers,
Roachie
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FollowupID: 308287

Follow Up By: conman - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 23:21

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 23:21
yeah thaks roachie,
so it probably is the driver side hub mechanism thats stuffed
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FollowupID: 308289

Follow Up By: V8troopie - Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 00:54

Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 00:54
Might not be fully stuffed, perhaps just stuck or a broken spring. It has a decent spline type dog clutch in there, not all that easy to stuff up but easy enough to get stuck.
Klaus
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FollowupID: 308298

Follow Up By: LBJ - Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 16:36

Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 16:36
all 4wd's are 3 wheel drive unless you have a front locker!!
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FollowupID: 308358

Follow Up By: Roachie - Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 16:48

Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 16:48
G'day LBJ,
I think that without any locker on the back either, you still only have a 2 w/d; not 3wd. If a vehicle with open diffs at both ends gets hung-up with diagonally opposite wheels off the ground (eg: front left and back right etc), it's gunna sit there and spin both those air-bound wheels. Add in a rear LSD worth it's salt and you'll get off the hump with any luck.
Cheers,
Roachie
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FollowupID: 308359

Follow Up By: LBJ - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 09:32

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 09:32
Hi Roachie,
yeah i agree with ya there. i forgot about the 4b's with open centre rear diffs!! lol
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FollowupID: 308459

Follow Up By: Mike - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 12:42

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 12:42
Roachie,
on the '03 Patrol they have Auto locking hubs which also can be locked. Whats the advantage in locking the hubs in 4WD
Mike
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FollowupID: 308474

Follow Up By: Roachie - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 17:13

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 17:13
Mike,
This might sound a bit stupid, but the reasons I changed to manual locking hubs were:
(a) Manouvering (reversing) a heavy trailer up a concrete driveway often requires low-range purely for the gearing advatages. But with auto hubs, as soon as you go into 4wd (high or low), you've got no choice but to be in 4 wheel drive....and that's not what you want when you're mucking around on a hard surface. So with manual hubs, unlocked, you can go into low range and still be able to steer normally without stressing CV joints etc.
(b) Similarly, when I was travelling up the Bloomfield Track to Cape York in 2002, part of the track was very steep and consisted of twin ribbons of concrete. I needed low range to get up the hill with camper trailer on, but due to auto hubs I could feel the stress on the steering when negotiating any corners.
(c)....and this really is silly, I know.....I was recently involved in a Xmas Parade as the tow vehicle for a float, promoting our 4 w/d club. The speed was sooooo slow, I either had to ride the clutch or go into low range and idle along in 1st/low. I chose to do the latter, but as the parade went around a rectangular course in the middle of town, every time I came to a corner I had to change back to 2wd until I got the wheels straightened up again.
Cheers,
Roachie
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FollowupID: 308488

Reply By: Brian - Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 01:07

Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 01:07
Conman I re-read your original post and got a bit confused.
To check if the diff and free wheeling hubs are ok ....
1/ Jack up only one front wheel
2/ Engage hubs and put transfer case in neutral!
3/rotate the wheel and look to see if drive shaft is turning if it is then diff & hubs are ok!
4/ no put in gear and in 4WD and do the same the wheel should rock on the gear box, if it goes around then you have a box problem.

The old trick on mine sites is to disengage the passenger hub so that when you need 4WD you don't have it lots of laughs at your expense!!!! The quick way to tell if all is ok is to shift into 4wd and the move 60kph or so if all is silent then you Have 4wd if there is a grinding sound then something is wrong!!!

Couple of things with the Hubs... are they clean? they can get gummed up if they are slightly worn and won't "POP in" try lightly tapping with a soft face hammer or lump of wood listen for the click!

Hope this helps
Brian

AnswerID: 46429

Follow Up By: conman - Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 18:36

Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 18:36
thats what i thought. If 4wd is engaged and in gear then shouldn't the wheel be locked because the cranks not turning? I had 1 wheel jacked at a time and in gear, front passenger- shaft and wheel turned
front driver wheel turned but no shaft
also noticed when driving that the steering was not heavy as it normally is in 4wd
suppose i better get down to arb to check it out.
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FollowupID: 308376

Reply By: Pauley - Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 01:24

Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 01:24
If you're buying free wheeling hubs don't buy AVM, I had a set on the old Cruiser when I bought it (didn't work) and the cheap manufacture of them was incredible. Couldnt get them all apart either as all the bolts were corroded, ended cutting them to bits with a Dremel seemed as if 50% of the internals was plastic. Picked up a set of second hand AISIN free wheelers from Gracemere wreckers (QLD) for $85 there is no comparison in the manufacture of the two brands.
Paul
AnswerID: 46430

Follow Up By: Davoe - Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 15:34

Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 15:34
Just had a new set of avm put on my cruiser to replace the avm that was broken (cant buy just 1) actually had the same problem as original post. Anyway couldnt see any plastic bits but they are very shiny and gold coloured and for your information on the box it says the product has one a natianal 4wd award. Impressive! which country and what award, thought claims like that were illegal
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FollowupID: 308353

Reply By: Jon - '88 TD42 GQ - Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 11:02

Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 11:02
Same thing happened to a mate of mie. Bought a Hairdresser 4b and we all went out together. went down a track in 2wd and stopped ahead of some serious stuff to get out and have a look. He tried to move the car uphill and sat theer wheel spinning. No worries, knock it in 4wd - same thing. So the serious stuff got cancelled (grrr).

Turned out the hubs were jammed and not locking when engaged. All it took was a stripdown and some wd40 i'm told (i wasn't around for the repair) so give that a go before replacing anything.

Best part of the day was getting him on film saying "I thing it's not engaging becasue the tire pressures are too high". Nearly wet myself over that one!

Cheers.
AnswerID: 46441

Follow Up By: Member - DOZER- Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 12:03

Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 12:03
Second that, you will find that some corrosion has set in in that hub, removing the 6 x 10mm headed bolts will reveal all. It doesnt take much to get them stuck, would geta mechanic to do it unless you have had experiance with these or you are good at reading workshop manuals.
Andrewwheredayathinkwer mike?
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FollowupID: 308330

Follow Up By: conman - Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 18:40

Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 18:40
So a courier is a hairdresser 's 4wd eh?
Anyone want to buy a slighly used courier?
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FollowupID: 308378

Follow Up By: Jon - '88 TD42 GQ - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 09:11

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 09:11
Nah mate, he had a vitara. Lowest thing with part time 4wd I've seen. Couldn't comment on a courier, but like all the 'softer' 4b's I reckon they'd go anywhere us prauiser drivers actually go anyway.

Anywho, hope it's just a hub and not a diff! (Though you never know, maybe it IS the tire pressure!!!)

Cheers.
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FollowupID: 308458

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