fuel filters

Submitted: Friday, Oct 11, 2013 at 19:10
ThreadID: 104683 Views:6847 Replies:7 FollowUps:13
This Thread has been Archived
in regards to fuel filters for crd engines as advertised in australian 4wd issue 206, one fron dieselcare and the other from waterwatch,advice needed on the pros and cons for both,price not important,thanks in advance barry
Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: Mick O - Friday, Oct 11, 2013 at 19:23

Friday, Oct 11, 2013 at 19:23
Barry, I am yet to read #206 but following the load of crap I got first thing out of a drum at Well 23 last year (Thank god for my "Mr Funnel") I fitted the "Fuel Manager" fuel filter system supplied by Terrain Tamer. I also fitted the optional in-cab alarm. Impressed with the unit so far and as the driver of a CRD 4.5L V8 T/D, I am now a firm believer that a good quality after market fuel filter PRE the factory fitted filter, is a must for anyone seriously traveling the outback. The quality of the fuel, management of bowser filters and moving fuel from jerry's can lead to expensive outcomes for CRD diesels.

Terrain Tamer - Fuel Filter

Oh and one more tip, if you're driving a Toyota, DO NOT stray towards a generic filter for your fuel and air filters. There are some good after market products but they are simply not as good as the genuine Toyota filters. The price is horrendous but in my experience, they are simply the best quality.

Regards

Mick
''We knew from the experience of well-known travelers that the
trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
Richard Maurice - 1903

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

AnswerID: 519561

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Oct 11, 2013 at 20:25

Friday, Oct 11, 2013 at 20:25
Gday Mick,
I agree with you about using genuine filters but think Toyotas prices for filters are very reasonable.
Just pulled an invoice out for my TDV8:
Oil Filter $24.17 + GST
Fuel Filter $30.10 +GST
Air Filter was about $60
All cheaper than my 2002 HDJ79.

I also think jerry cans are good - always been my preference to a long range tank - I have spaces for 9 jerries in the new vehicle. Fill them full of clean diesel at the start of the trip and refill from the sus suppliers. Any rubbish and water settles to the bottom - so as long as you pour into a gauzed funnel (not use a pump) you'll take the fuel off the top and you're most likely OK - has worked for me.
0
FollowupID: 799701

Follow Up By: Mick O - Friday, Oct 11, 2013 at 21:02

Friday, Oct 11, 2013 at 21:02
Cheers Phil, yes agree with you on the filters but generic filters can be around half the price or less and people are often lured to them to "save" a few bucks. $60 for a genuine filter that may prevent an $8K rebuild of your fuel system seems like cheap insurance to me but people will see $30 for "nearly" the same thing on Ebay and be drawn to it. A trap for the unwary I say.

Yep you cannot underestimate the worth of a good funnel like "Mr Funnel" for sorting out fuel purity in the first instance. I love jerrys as well but also like to utilise whatever real estate I can under the vehicle for fuel storage.

How did the new 200 go on this years travels?

Regards

Mick

''We knew from the experience of well-known travelers that the
trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
Richard Maurice - 1903

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 799705

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Oct 11, 2013 at 21:50

Friday, Oct 11, 2013 at 21:50
Gday Mick,
Yeah I'll get a Mr Funnel before next year - sounds like one step better than a gauzed funnel.
This years trips got cancelled unfortunately. In April one of my kids (29 yo) got cancer and required surgery and chemo - happily it is very curable and at this (early) stage it looks like we have it licked. And in June I got a disc bulge in my neck with a bit of numbness and weakness in my right arm, so had to lay off heavy stuff like outback trips. So we had to pull out of the Canning and GVD trips we were planning. Next year should be better. Will have to start filling out leave forms soon!

The 200series has certainly been a bit different to the 79series. It doesn't feel like a truck (which is a pity) and we really miss the vast space we had in the back of the canopy. But we like the extra space inside, the thing drives so well on the highway and what little we've done offroad so far has been good. Done the electrics, suspension, tyres, storage and roofrack on it so its pretty much ready for any trip - with or without the Tvan. And maintenance on the 200series is a lot less than the HDJ79 - no timing belts, valve clearances or wheel bearings to service. Even though its a new vehicle I'm doing my own servicing again - just for peace of mind.

Cheers
Phil
0
FollowupID: 799706

Follow Up By: Kanga1 - Friday, Oct 11, 2013 at 22:48

Friday, Oct 11, 2013 at 22:48
Hi Guys, Mick, I quizzed the guy at Fuel Manager regarding where to fit their fuel filter assy, ( I got one in Melbourne for the new D-Max) as it says in their literature it can be fitted before or after the OEM filter because I had some concerns about fitting it after the Factory one that has all the sensors for restrictions etc in it and may not register correctly if there was a restriction after it this is what he replied with.

"

We hear this kind of claim from people a bit, there seems to be a misconception that the secondary filter will cause fuel restriction. The fact is it doesn’t. There also seems to be a misconception that a fuel restriction will destroy or compromise the CR pump. Once again; it doesn’t. Let me explain but first let me set our credentials:



Diesel Care is a diesel injection repairer with more than 60 years in the industry. We hold service dealerships for all the manufacturers of diesel injection systems including Bosch, Denso, Delphi, & Stanadyne. We are a Denso Premium Common Rail Dealer, & also hold Bosch Common Rail Partner status. This means we are endorsed by these manufacturers on their systems. We do a lot with common rail, including repair of high pressure CR pumps & injectors. Personally I am a qualified Diesel Technician with 35 years experience in this field.



The fuel system on your new D-Max is made by Denso. The High Pressure Pump supplies fuel at extremely high pressure to the Common Rail which acts as an accumulator to feed all 4 injectors. The fuel pressure in the Rail is controlled by the ECU (Electronic Control Unit) by means of a SCV (Suction Control Valve) mounted on the Pump. The SCV is essentially a solenoid valve which limits fuel supply to the pump, i.e. it chokes off the supply to lessen the fuel pumped, & opens the supply to increase the fuel pumped, therefore allowing precise pressure control. Think of it as a drinking straw that constantly changes in size to limit how much you drink. So, the SCV limits flow to the pump by providing a restriction. Now, with this in mind why would Denso use this method of controlling how much fuel the pump delivers if it damaged the pump? Answer; because it does not damage the pump, plain & simple.



I have never seen a High Pressure CR Pump fail from fuel restriction due to a blocked fuel filter. Normally a surge or loss of power is the first symptom. On the other hand I have seen many pumps fail from fuel contamination, mostly its water, but also poor quality fuel, & fairly commonly from petrol because the owner inadvertently filled up from the wrong pump. Without doubt; the biggest enemy of modern day diesel injection systems in Australia is fuel contamination, & make no mistake, it finds its way through the filter.



We sell plenty of Fuel Manager kits to Dealerships for many vehicle brands. This is because these dealerships are sick & tired of the argument that ensues when a vehicle has suffered expensive fuel system damage due to fuel contamination while the vehicle is under warranty. The owner will argue that the factory filter should have done its job & removed all impurities, the dealer (for the manufacturer) will argue that they have no control over fuel quality & contamination is not covered under warranty. Result: bad vibes all around, & usually a depleted bank account for the owner. So as a result an extra filter acting as another line of defence against poor fuel is a popular preventative for everyone concerned. Many dealerships choose to install the Fuel Manager system as a Pre filter, i.e. before the factory filter using 30 micron filtration, mainly due to the misconception that your dealer voiced to you about secondary (2 micron) filtration, but if they really understood how the system works they might think again. I will say though that some of our dealership customers have recently seen the light & are now installing the Fuel Manager as a secondary. Why? Because the penny has finally dropped that finer secondary filtration is ultimately better overall.



We offer our kits as both Pre (30 micron) & Secondary (2 or 5 micron) because we accept that people want to make the choice themselves. Both systems will provide better protection than a factory system alone, but for my money the secondary system is superior. The factory filter warning systems for water & restriction still function normally. If what your learned friend has advised you was correct, there would be hundreds & hundreds of failed CR pumps all over the country following fitment of our secondary kit, but there are not. With your Dealership, they believe that the factory filter is effective in removing all impurities from commercially available diesel fuel, then they should have no problem covering your vehicle under warranty if you are unlucky enough to get a tank full of bad fuel (I’d suggest you get that assurance in writing though). If they won’t cover you in the instance of fuel contamination, & nor will they allow you to better protect yourself against it, there is hardly an argument is there?



I hope this information has helped.



Best regards,



Andrew




Don't mean to add to confusion but I have checked with the Isuzu Dealership and they are completely OK with it being fitted where Andrew suggests, in fact I will have them fit the filter, the bracket is already done as I needed some real estate to fit some relays and fuses. ( The car has only 900 kms on it so far and I don't want to cause any warranty issues.) Cheers, Kanga.
Tempus Fugit

Kanga.

Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 799709

Follow Up By: Ross M - Friday, Oct 11, 2013 at 23:29

Friday, Oct 11, 2013 at 23:29
Kanga
I asked Isuzu/IUA via email and they would not endorse the fitting of any filter to the system as they didn't know what the effect would be and therefore warranty would be in question. I asked them why they didn't have a fluids engineer, who would understand such matters. They didn't have anyone who could give an opinion.

I understand the Diesel Care explanation of the SCV and it's purpose in fuel injection control, that does alter the injected amounts available in the pumping element of the pump. What we are talking about with restriction, is depriving the WHOLE PUMP of sufficient lubrication for all it's sections of operation and not just the control of the pumping element which was his sole focus.

If it blocks/restricts, a filter placed between the OE and the high pressure pump will render the restriction sensor in a Dmax inoperable, as the fuel pressure of the pump will still deliver fuel to the OE filter and because it's next filter, the AUX is restricted the fuel pressure in the OE filter will rise above normal pressure.
Since the Dmax OE filter restriction sensor acts as a negative pressure occurs ie changes as it goes from, just above to just below atmospheric, the rise in pressure will not signal a block in the system and insufficient fuel will be delivered to the pump.
The fuel is a cooling agent among other things and the HP pump will now run or try to run with less cooling and insufficient supply for ALL it's internals and not just the SCV injecting system.

Possibly the reason he hasn't seen a pump fail from less fuel is because they stop.

I agree finer is better as long as the essential flows are catered for.

It is worrying that you and I have both asked Isuzu and received differing answers. One from a dealer and one from IUA direct. I don't necessarily trust a dealer I'm sorry to say.


Whoever fits a filter after the OE should be flushing ALL lines, fittings and filter housings with a supply of pre filtered diesel to flush any fine crap which filters are used for, failure to observe this may introduce a piece of rubber or swarf or grit off hands from outside, and straight away affect the system it is being fitted to protect. How many do that?

Cheers
Ross M
1
FollowupID: 799712

Follow Up By: Erad - Saturday, Oct 12, 2013 at 07:29

Saturday, Oct 12, 2013 at 07:29
Phil_G:
Those prices are more than reasonable. I paid over $54 for an oil filter for my Pajero from the local stealership. I haven't even tried for a fuel filter yet. Maybe I am being ripped off?
0
FollowupID: 799715

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Saturday, Oct 12, 2013 at 08:53

Saturday, Oct 12, 2013 at 08:53
Erad,
The Toyota fuel and oil filters are now cartridge replacements instead of spin-on which is why they are cheaper than before. But $54 for a spin-on is pretty rich, but might be normal for Mitsubishi. Our VW Tiguan fuel and oil filters are also cartridge and similar price to Toyota.
0
FollowupID: 799716

Follow Up By: Kanga1 - Saturday, Oct 12, 2013 at 09:09

Saturday, Oct 12, 2013 at 09:09
Hi Ross, My local Dealership claim to have fitted a number of these units already, and I ensure that their fitting of the Unit will not affect any future Warranty claims in writing before it gets fitted. I have not had one of the CRD vehicles before and am worried by their reliability with suspicious fuel. Hence we will use a Mr Funnel and a filter between the fuel tanks ( 100 litre tank under the tray gravity feeding the factory tank ). It is concerning that there are compelling views to a before and after OEM filter ancilliary fitment, whatever doesn't affect the warranty will be done by the Isuzu Dealer. Cheers, Kanga.
Tempus Fugit

Kanga.

Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 799717

Follow Up By: Ross M - Saturday, Oct 12, 2013 at 16:10

Saturday, Oct 12, 2013 at 16:10
If he fits it AFTER the OE filter then goodbye to the original restriction sensing.

Just as a matter of interest, before it is fitted ask the fitter at the dealers to explain to you, how the system works and how and when the restriction sensing operates. just to see if he knows!

If the dealer introduces crap after the OE filter do you have it in writing that it is covered?
If there is an issue with that "who" determines the cause and the eligibility for provision of warranty. A drunk in charge of the bar isn't a good person to determine sobriety.

If/when the new filter restricts and the restriction sensor in the OE filter is not able to sense the restriction, (because it is further down stream), are they covering that in warranty? Is that specifically mentioned because they have rendered the accepted Isuzu design non functional.

If your dealer has fitted a few, downstream units. are they providing written warranty or is IUA doing the warranty?
A big "turn around", "about face" if that is happening.
Are you making decisions on what they tell you or on what is reality?
You can have the filter after the OE but there are consequences.

Cheers
Ross M
1
FollowupID: 799739

Reply By: 08crd - Friday, Oct 11, 2013 at 20:47

Friday, Oct 11, 2013 at 20:47
I picked up a load of water in fuel years ago in a series 1 disco, It made me aware how important a pre filter was.
Since then I have run a Racor fuel filter with water alarm, as a pre filter on all my diesels.
Only my opinion, everyone has preferences and they may not align with mine.
AnswerID: 519564

Reply By: Ross M - Friday, Oct 11, 2013 at 22:58

Friday, Oct 11, 2013 at 22:58
G'day Barry P
Mr.Funnel and Water watch catch water in droplet from or warn you of same but neither stops or even attempts to stop emulsifies water in the fuel.
A pre filter which does the usual but also dewaters as much as possible is a last line of defence.
Water Watch alerts you but doesn't stop it going further, it actually is past the WW and through the OE filter before and in the HP pump when the alarm may go off.

Small ie 3 litre engines have a static flow rate of at least 30 >35litres per hour and V8 are more. That is at least 600ml per min when idling and the fuel system OE filter and/or WW before it will have seen the water through if you don't stop the fuel pump within 60 seconds from when it alarms, otherwise water is in the high pressure pump and beyond. WW is great for detection though.
Maybe ok if you are brisk in the bush, on the freeway? where do you stop and when?
Nothing is perfect but with a little thought and looking into the system and how it works will see many do things which give maximum available protection.

08CRD has done this, many haven't and are fortunate.

P.S. the action of the rotary cell fuel pumps common in most CRD fuel tanks almost makes sure some of the water which is picked up in the tank is homogenized and made into emulsified water held within the fuel molecules and it is THIS as well as lumps of water which CRD systems don't like.
Just another point of view to consider.

Ross M
AnswerID: 519566

Reply By: Member - Rosco from way back - Friday, Oct 11, 2013 at 23:08

Friday, Oct 11, 2013 at 23:08
OK gents and gentettes

Bear with me and I'll tell you a story.

I fully agree with all said above. I decided on the Diesel Care (FM100) jobby rather than the Water Watch for the simple reason that the FM100 did 2 jobs as against one.
The FM100 combines a water alarm as well as a filter, whilst the Water Watch is a water alarm only. Now I'm not saying one is necessarily better than the other ... I'm merely stating the facts as I see it.

So ..unit installed and off we go on our latest adventure up through the Kimberleys and all places of interest, confident in the knowledge we have taken extra precautions against picking up a dose of the horrible .............. crap fuel.

Back we come after 13500 km and not so much as a "By your leave" from the fuel system, suggesting we've certainly not imbibed in less than your finest quality diesel.

After a couple of weeks at home we head off for a long weekend, short order tour of about 1500 km. We refuel at a very large servo in Goondiwindi and some time later the lights start yapping on the dash.

Off to the Toyota man on our return, who advises there was a pile of crap/water in the filter ... downstream of the flash FM100! Prior to going to the T man, I had already changed the FM100 filter and noted no obvious water in the bowl trap.

After a lot of back and forth between myself and the Diesel Care people (who I must add were excellent in their efforts to get to the bottom of the issue) the filter unit complete was swapped for a replacement.

I have made a number of calls in an effort to find out about the results of their autopsy but as yet remain unenlightened.

I can only hope mine was a one-off spot of bad luck and will be keeping a close eye on the entire set-up for a while.
AnswerID: 519567

Reply By: Ron N - Friday, Oct 11, 2013 at 23:38

Friday, Oct 11, 2013 at 23:38
Frantz Filters, which used to use toilet paper rolls for the fiterling medium - but which now use a better grade of compressed paper element (due to variations in toilet roll size) - are excellent for soaking up nasty contaminants from dirty fuel, such as water.

The paper acts like a blotter to soak the water out of even emulsified fuel. A Frantz filter will soak up a large quantity of water, much more than any other filter.

http://www.aftermarketsuppliers.org/Councils/Filter-Manufacturers-Council/Heavy-Duty-Consumers/Removing-Water-from-Fuel.html
AnswerID: 519570

Reply By: Member - Rosco from way back - Saturday, Oct 12, 2013 at 11:42

Saturday, Oct 12, 2013 at 11:42
One other issue that has arisen, as reported on the LCOOL site for the Tojo V8 relates to the use of too small a diameter hose for the extra filter. Apparently anything less than 12mm has caused sufficient restriction in flow create issues.
This may not apply to other engines, but is an issue to be borne in mind if deciding to fit an extra filter.
AnswerID: 519583

Follow Up By: Ross M - Saturday, Oct 12, 2013 at 15:21

Saturday, Oct 12, 2013 at 15:21
Rossco fwb.
I use a Donaldson filter unit, not the finest but it does a few things before the OE filter and with suitable flow rate.
I proposed the idea of two of these plumbed in parallel so the instantaneous flow rate of a V8 is catered for AND so there is two places for the settling of water and the dewatering by the filter medium. It would also allow for a greater contaminant capture than just one filter and only one would need to be changed if there was a sudden restriction, the other done when the emergency was past. ie later that day.

Many extra filter systems are supplied with fittings which are smaller than the vehicle uses, OK for conventional diesels, but I changed the fittings to the appropriate size even though mine is only 3l fuel demand.

Most people who fit these system, even top professional, the, "you shouldn't question them type people", also often supply and fit small fitting for the systems. You will see a lot of it if you look at a few vehicles with an AUX filter.

The V8 will have bigger lines and fitters should respect it was done for a reason and not overrule the makers gear, but they do. Perhaps it is just ignorance.

Cheers
Ross M
0
FollowupID: 799733

Follow Up By: Member - Rosco from way back - Saturday, Oct 12, 2013 at 15:38

Saturday, Oct 12, 2013 at 15:38
Yep Ross
I've used 12.7mm (1/2") so there's no problem. Use of 10mm is a no no for this donk. I like your idea of dual filters, however with the ABS model I have, there is very limited space under the bonnet. Not like the old Holdens and Fords where you could sit on the guard with your feet in the engine well.
It was my preference to set the FM100 up as a pre-filter before the OEM jobby, with the water alarm spliced into the factory unit which removed the necessity of getting another wire/light/buzzer in the dash.
I prefer the idea of reducing the load on the OEM filter by catching a lot of the crud before it gets there.
0
FollowupID: 799735

Follow Up By: Ross M - Saturday, Oct 12, 2013 at 18:52

Saturday, Oct 12, 2013 at 18:52
Rosco
Just a little vote for us Ross's here, great minds think alike. Hows that for self promotion? Nothing hidden there.

I like how people still trust dealers to be on their side. No dealer has the customers interest at heart as it conflicts with the whole idea of business, which is to make money, not serve. Workshop ability is often questionable too.

It sounds like your setup works well and is well integrated for the alarm connection. Grafted on like yours is, retains the OE features which I think is important. If they weren't important why did the manufacturer fit it that way.

Cheers
Ross M
0
FollowupID: 799758

Follow Up By: Member - Rosco from way back - Sunday, Oct 13, 2013 at 11:40

Sunday, Oct 13, 2013 at 11:40
Mate

I couldn't have said it better or more succinctly. I'm the sole and founding member of the self aggrandisement club in this neck of the woods. Good to hear it sounds like you have yours up and running also ... ;o)
0
FollowupID: 799808

Reply By: roger t4 - Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 13:07

Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 13:07
G`day All,
This whole subject is scarey to say the least, Ive recently bought a RG Colorado with the 2.8 CRD and am very happy with the vehicle. I previously had a D4d hilux and even then with their well known startup clatter had been blissfully ignorant of the fuel supply problems that these engines can suffer. It`s frightening the cost of injectors & fuel pump repairs. With foresight, can we owners of these motors, expect in the future and not even considering the fuel contamination problems that this thread is about, to be up for injector replacement (I believe they are not repaired, only replaced) and the pump, what`s the story for those things? Boy! progress is great but at what cost? I think I`ll go and find me an old indirect injected 3ltr KZN-TE Hilux. Performance is still good enough and mileage is as good as it gets. Thanks to you all for the posts on this and opening my eyes at last. What a load of bollocks we consumers have wear . Both manufacturers and fuel company`s should be accountable, this whole scenario sucks.

Cheers Rog
AnswerID: 520047

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (13)