Might start it again!!, Skinny Tryes V/s FatTyres ?

G'day Axle
I know Land Rovers are capable vehicles but I would avoid that spot in future.
If using a winch to get out the "thins" will act like rudders or winged keels and the "wides" might allow you to surf out. How is your grip with toes on the bull bar? Do you wax it?

Cheers
Ross M

Hi Axle,
Back in the sixties, my old dad worked for the PMG as a linesman.(then Telecom which became Telstra) One of his roles was as a line inspector, and he covered the area between Keith and Naracoorte in SA. Before the many drains were introduced to drain the area, there were some quite formidable swamps right through there. He had to do a visual inspection of every wooden telegraph pole, and every 3rd (or so) pole, he was required to dig down about a foot or so and check for rot. The most important part of his kit was his rubber boots as defence against the many tiger snakes which infested the area then.
I can recall many a scary yarn about those exploits with the joe blakes as a kid of about 10 or so.
However, the lingering memory I have is his tales of the vehicle which got him into and out of some of the really sticky areas. He was equipped with a Land Rover ute, and managed to bog it with regularity. No winch to help, and very little passing traffic.
He was less than impressed with the Land Rover for those situations, but redemption was at hand in the form of a VW Kombi. I think it was a 1200cc motor, and skinny 16" wheels.
He had the utmost faith in the Kombi, and rarely bogged it.
His conclusion was the low power didn't allow it to bury itself, and the larger rolling diameter enabled it to plough on through just about any thing. With anything really sticky, he said the wheels cut through to something a little more solid and traction was regained.
He also had a comparable experience with low powered Hi-lux many years later when his mates used to have trouble with Land Cruisers and he would carry through the same conditions.
Maybe it's got more to do with the application of the right foot, maybe the vehicle weight, but we seem to be headed down the path of creating difficulties with our vehicle requirements. Maybe.
Cheers, Bob.

Hi Axle

What is a "Fat" tyre and what is a "Skinny" tyre ?

Cheers
Greg

PS. No need to laugh when you respond, but if you have to, feel free :)

There have been many studies conducted by military and civilian organisations into the topic of which tyre is best. I spent a considerable time surfing the net and reading these studies in the hope of finding the holy grail.

The only conclusion to which all studies seem to agree is that the larger the diameter of the tyre, then the better the tyre performs.

I have just returned from a safari in Africa, and in Masai Mara, where you do not have to stay on formed tracks it was raining and the country was wet and very slippery. The drivers, all African locals, did a good job of keeping us going even though we did do a few spin outs. The tyres they had were quite narrow 235/85R16.

I've rarely come across a bog that has a bottom within reach of a wheel and tyre. I've been bogged with the best of them, I've sunk my old 4WD F100 in a tree stump hole, until the top of the bumper was below ground level.
I've pushed a 1.8M crowbar into the ground and not had it touch hard bottom. We've got yellow loam off ironstone gravel ridges in W.A., and if you drop into that after heavy rains, you'd better round up a tractor.

"Widies" help your vehicle float across soft ground, but if you break through, and drop the axle housings into it, you're pretty well stuffed, no matter what tyres you're wearing.
The resistance created by axle housings getting dragged through the mud is phenomenal.

Back in my Ag spraying days..the only way to stay on top with 800L on a hilux was to fit fat tyres. Yes, it worked within limits but with a hefty increase in fuel consumption.
I don't see any upside for the average motorist, but the young'uns like the "look at me"
effect but pay for it at the bowser..cheers.....oldbaz.

The issue is not just the width. It's all about the pressure at a given point. The bigger the footprint of the tyre, the less the pressure and therefore the more traction you will get. So for general driving on fully inflated tyres, the wider tyres will give more traction if you encounter soft stuff.
But, and it's a big but. This all starts to change when you reduce tyre pressures, which is what we all do (don't we?) when we are in mud/sand. As tyre pressures are dropped, the real increase in traction comes not from the increase in width of the footprint but from the increase in length of the footprint. The increase in width as you drop tyre pressures is minimal but the increase in length is very considerable. Surface area being a function of length X width, the increase in length makes a huge difference (at regular pressures the length of the footprint is very short). With decreased tyre pressures, the wide tyre still has an advantage but things have evened out a lot.
But, tyre construction becomes relevant. Modern radial construction tyres behave quite differently to the old pre radial construction. Radial construction tyres bag in length, but not as much as the old construction. Those old 30's, 40's 50's photos of truck with narrow tyres chugging across the sand were getting much more bagging (longitudinal flattening) from lower pressures than we get today.
For mine, I don't think the hassle/cost of running very wide tyres is worth the gains once tyre pressures start to be dropped.

The downside of widies is the steering drag created when you hit deep puddles or the "floatiness" created when you have to travel in heavy rain on bitumen, and the water is deep on the road surface.

If you hit a deep puddle at speed on one side, the steering "pull" to that side created by widies is substantial.
Unless you're on the ball and prepared to counter that pull with steering, you can end up on your roof, quick-smart.
Lost one of my dual-cab Hiluxes that way via a young employee who wasn't expecting that steering "pull" at 100kmh.
5 blokes in it, and it ended up on its roof in the scrub. Luckily no-one got seriously hurt, just a few bumps and bruises, because they were all wearing seatbelts.

On wet bitumen, "widies" aquaplane terrifyingly fast, and you can get in trouble pretty quickly, unless you slow down.
Look at your tyre tracks in the mirror, if you can see the road surface in the tyre tracks through the water, you're O.K.
A widie won't cut through the sheet of water, to the road surface, when the rainfall is heavy.

Tyres fitted as standard to a vehicle are designed as a compromise to try and meet an average range of expected conditions.
If you're travelling continuously in soft sand or muddy conditions, then widies are the only choice. However, they're a poor choice for good to very good road conditions.

If you want to get a better understanding of impact and function; a good place to start looking is in the agriculture market where extensive research has been done comparing standard tyred ag gear and track type ag gear....... smaller foot print vs bigger foot print.

http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/ba3468a2a8681f69872569d60073fde1/5f171202688a28fe87256e32004f9812/$FILE/952097.pdf

Do a search on Google for "tracked vs tire ag vehicles"

Back in my rallying days if it was muddy we would run narrower tyres due to the fact we could cut through the soft stuff and get to the harder stuff, a theory they use in ice and snow.

Gday,
At least your comparing apples to apples I guess....albeit BRUISED apples.
What I mean is the tyres you are comparing had a rough start by being fitted up on a Landrover after all! LOL

Although it makes some difference, I think other factors makes a much much bigger difference.
Tyre pressures, tyre profiles, driving style, weight distribution of vehicle, and clearance plays a much larger role in muddy bogs than skinny v fat tyres ever could.

Axle.
What do you mean "Might start it again", the thread is not bogged down it is rolling along quite well.

dont know about mud but Ive seen conclusive proof that thinner tyres 235/85/16 go alot better on sand than wider 285/75x16