Electronic Rust Prevention

Submitted: Sunday, Nov 03, 2013 at 15:47
ThreadID: 104973 Views:3370 Replies:10 FollowUps:7
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G'day, it's the Old Dog here. I was watching one of those 4WD shows the other week and this fella was talking about an Electronic Rust Control System that he put on his Land Cruiser many years ago. The old girl had no bistable signs of rust. I went to ARB and the fella there showed me the device and gave me the speal but I was wondered if any of my learned friends out there have had any first hand experience with this device; after all ARB want around $900 to supply and fit the thing. The tech talk sounds good but like all things you can't beat good old first hand experience.
Keen to hear from you.
Old Dog
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Reply By: Nomadic Navara - Sunday, Nov 03, 2013 at 16:12

Sunday, Nov 03, 2013 at 16:12
If you usethe search function you wil finda few threads in the archives on the subject.

In the mean time here is a couple of links to look at:

RACQ Rust Preventative Systems

Retarding rust by Collyn Rivers
PeterD
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Follow Up By: Old dog - Sunday, Nov 03, 2013 at 17:24

Sunday, Nov 03, 2013 at 17:24
G'day mate, thanks for the info. Very helpful.
Old Dog
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Reply By: Member - Rosco from way back - Sunday, Nov 03, 2013 at 18:05

Sunday, Nov 03, 2013 at 18:05
Snake oil OD.
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Follow Up By: Member - DingoBlue(WA) - Sunday, Nov 03, 2013 at 19:01

Sunday, Nov 03, 2013 at 19:01
Having worked for one of the largest Cathodic Protection company's in the world, I can endorse your comments Rosco.
Rather a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!

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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Sunday, Nov 03, 2013 at 20:37

Sunday, Nov 03, 2013 at 20:37
But having one fitted to your pride and joy makes you feel all fuzzy and gooey inside....... don't know what it does for stopping rust, might have some effect as the car feels loved and will look after itself better. LOL

Yes snake oil of the 21th century
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Reply By: Travelinglew - Sunday, Nov 03, 2013 at 18:52

Sunday, Nov 03, 2013 at 18:52
Gday Old Dog,

Can only talk from my experience. My 2000 troopy had many stone chips, with visible surface rust, in the front of the roof when purchased in 2001. I had an electronic system installed just after purchase. I have not touched the stone chips at all, other than to wash and the occasional polish. The rust levels have not changed in the years that I have owned the car. No other apparent rust in the car and this does get used on the beach and to launch a boat from time to time. Only conclusion I can draw is that the system is working.

Lew
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Reply By: Brian 01 - Sunday, Nov 03, 2013 at 19:19

Sunday, Nov 03, 2013 at 19:19
Leave it alone, there is no substantive evidence that these devices do anything to prevent rust.
If you install one, you will spend the next 10 years (assuming you keep the vehicle that long) wondering if it is working.
My 100 series landcruiser is now 11 years old, has been to Fraser island a few times, along the Coorong, and to many other places where salt and dirt can be expected to cause rust.
The vehicle has no rust preventive measures apart from what comes standard with the vehicle, and has no signs of rust whatsoever.
So if you have a vehicle like this, and install an electronic rust preventive device, what do you use as a blind for comparison.

Incidentally, the advertising of such devices was banned some years ago in the USA and the sale of some have been banned in Quebec.
With all the salted road induced rustability (that's a new word that I just invented in case you're wondering) over there, I wonder why they might come down so hard on something if it actually worked !
Wheels did an article on it earlier this year where they also canned it as unproven and unsubstantiated.
Below is a link that may provide some insight, check out the test results, an excerpt of which is included below the link just for the lazy ones.

corrosion test

"The blank Q-panels were, as expected, thoroughly rusted. The faces of both panels were entirely covered in rust.
The Q-panels protected by the electronic devices were indistinguishable from the blank panels.
The faces of both panels protected by the electronic devices were entirely covered in rust".
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Reply By: Iza B - Sunday, Nov 03, 2013 at 19:42

Sunday, Nov 03, 2013 at 19:42
Those who have wasted their money (my opinion, of course) often try to "prove" they work by saying that mining companies fit them to their vehicles. My nephew is a Diesel Fitter at a large central Queensland mine and tells me that none of the vehicles at the mine have the devices fitted. The initial corrosion protection on new vehicles these days seems quite adequate if you do a serious wash down after the beach. My ute has spent many days on the beach over the years and has no rust in it. I don't have one of these EPS system.

Iza
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Tuesday, Nov 05, 2013 at 13:10

Tuesday, Nov 05, 2013 at 13:10
ive seen various companies claim certain minesites use them

but ive either worked at or visited these sites and know they dont,
they may at some stage have trailed them however but not continued thier use
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Reply By: Ron N - Sunday, Nov 03, 2013 at 19:53

Sunday, Nov 03, 2013 at 19:53
If anyone out there firmly believes that these Electronic Rust Control systems work - I've got a Peter Brock Energy Polariser I can let them have real cheap - say about $5000.
The Brock Energy Polariser uses orgone neuro-energy to realign all the molecules in your car - and the result is, it will win any drag-race hands down, corner like an F1 Scuderia Ferrari, and use so little fuel whilst doing so, you have to be careful the fuel tank doesn't overflow. Don't dither, this will be the only time I'll offer this Polariser for sale! Remember, the secrets to the Polariser died along with Brock! [;-)
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Sunday, Nov 03, 2013 at 20:56

Sunday, Nov 03, 2013 at 20:56
Good old Dr Eric Dowker and his company DB Tech Energy Polariser.

This is their press release letter.

An Energy Polarizer transmits a high energy mainly generated by the vehicle to which it is attached.

This high energy field - A.B.A. Energy - causes all molecules in its sphere of influence to be aligned or polarized to the direction of the high energy transmission, and are held in a linked or aligned state.

These molecules are subject to a vibratory rate dictated by the Polarizer.

The printed circuitry in a Polarizer causes a multiplicity of frequencies to be transmitted, affecting each molecule and allowing that molecule and it's environment to absorb specific vibration levels including noises, vibrations, resonance and impact harshness which are always present in any vehicle and also to dampen out the effects of imperfect manufacture of vehicle components.

The overall effect on a motor car is to absorb road shocks more completely and quietly, to reduce overall vehicle noises - both inside and outside - to achieve greater efficiency of the power train and steering systems,Improving the engine and suspension performance and to create a more pleasant environment for the driver and passenger.

Certain frequencies have not been "tuned out" as they are necessary for increased road safety.

The energy transmitted from the "Energy Polarizer" always flows to that area most affected. That means a major problem area still remains a problem, and the energy is effectively wasted on that area since the overall vehicle is deprived and consequently is less enhanced. So a correctly manufactured and maintained vehicle will always be superior to one that is not, but all vehicles benefit from the fitment of an Energy Polarizer.

It should be noted a vehicle which normally requires high octane leaded fuel is then able to operate on low octane (92) unleaded fuel, without any ill effects whatsoever, when an Energy Polarizer is fitted.

Tyre pressures must be lowered to maximise the effect of an Energy Polarizer.
Recommended tyre pressure:-

Standard and 60 series tyres - 24 P.S.I (165 k.p.a).
45 / 50 / 55 series tyres - 22 P.S.I (150k.p.a).
Light trucks and commercial vehicles - 30 P.S.I (210 k.p.a).

--
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Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Monday, Nov 04, 2013 at 17:38

Monday, Nov 04, 2013 at 17:38
Ron, I'm sure someone around here has a used Hyclone for sale as well, maybe you could combine and offer a a job lot.... ;-)
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Reply By: The Bantam - Sunday, Nov 03, 2013 at 22:33

Sunday, Nov 03, 2013 at 22:33
As I may have posted in the past.
A friend of mine that I have known since we where at college together who is now a private R&D engineer, had a project a few years ago to assess the feasability of these rust protection systems with a view to binging an effective one to market.

His conclusion was that the idea, was in fact effective in part, but practically not feasable.

I read people arguing from a cathodic protection point of view......this argument is not valid, because those on the market do not work by cathodic means.

They claim to work by creating an ionising field.....and this is what my friend prototyped.

The intent is that the device produces an ionic field by causing the body of the vehicle to be a form of aerial on a radio transmitter.

Now as I said, he proved that is was indee possible to charge metal by this process and prevent or reduce the speed of corrosion.


BUT and here is the big but.

The amount of energy to be effective is quite substantial, far more than is ...um...er... socially acceptable.
There are issues with electrical interfeerance...and even the lower powered commercial ones cause problems.
There are issues with propogating sufficient field to cover the whlole vehicle.....

AND even if there is sufficient field adequately distributed...it seems only effective on the surface.
The process seems to be totally ineffective in encolosed spaces of the structure and in crevices....where most problematic rust develops.

If ionising ratiation was realy effective at preventing corrosion, we would be no problems with corrosion in radiating radio masts......nothing could be further from the truth.

My 03 hilux that has never been garraged and is hardly ever polished, has stone chips all over the bonnet due to being driven on dirt roads......it shows very little sign of corrosion..anywhere........

As for snake oil....if you could boil down enough snakes, it would probely be a ver effective rust preventave, but...it would be a hell of a lot dearer than lanolin...and that works very well.

cheers
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Reply By: chisel - Monday, Nov 04, 2013 at 00:18

Monday, Nov 04, 2013 at 00:18
If they do work, where are the *independent* test results? Should not be too hard for one of these mobs to conduct a test with 2 identical vehicles in near-identical conditions.

I'm disappointed that the likes of Creek-to-coast (for those in Brisbane), ARB and BCF support the sellers of these devices without any conclusive evidence that they work.
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Reply By: Malcolm 02 - Monday, Nov 04, 2013 at 10:44

Monday, Nov 04, 2013 at 10:44
I used to work on a mine on an island off the Kimberly coast that trailed these devices in the 1980's as the bodies on their maintenance vehicles rarely lasted more than two years. The result was no difference in the rust rate.
The people who recommend them are the people making money from the sales.
I moved to another mine on an island in the NT where beach driving was the norm for the 4WD'ers. Nobody had one of these devices and every body found that a good hose down with fresh water was all that was required. Vehicles that had been there for 20 odd years did eventually show some rust, normally around the windows and roof joins. My advice save your money.
AnswerID: 520832

Follow Up By: Old dog - Monday, Nov 04, 2013 at 13:17

Monday, Nov 04, 2013 at 13:17
Wow, talk about a can of worms!! Thanks to all who
Have contributed to this conversation so far. I think I'll just get myself some Lanotec and spray and paint it everywhere I can put it. Can buy a lot of it for the price of an electronic device.
Old Dog
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Reply By: Jarse - Tuesday, Nov 05, 2013 at 17:18

Tuesday, Nov 05, 2013 at 17:18
Electronic rust protection has about as much scientific proof supporting its efficacy as Hiclones do.

Today's cars are very well built in regard to corrosion protection. They resist corrosion, in spite of that stuff being stuck on and wired up.
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