W.A. Caravan park fees

Submitted: Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 03:45
ThreadID: 105030 Views:3305 Replies:19 FollowUps:25
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Hi everyone, just returned from holidaying north of Perth. We were shocked to be charged $52 a night for a powered site @ Ledge Point Big 4 Caravan Park. Wasen't expecting this. Stayed only 2 days there. Is this the going rate for this time ? It's not holiday time yet is it? Anyway we have never paid this much EVER. It was too late to travel elsewhere as I did give it some thought. The park was not busy at all only 3 vans there. Just wondering what all you sandgropers think about this.

Cheers Bernie
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Reply By: Member - Toyocrusa (NSW) - Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 07:01

Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 07:01
We just paid $44 a night at a Big 4 at Swan Hill in Vic.It was a beautiful site right on the Murray River though. Our local Big 4 at Lake Conjola, NSW was $50 a night last Xmas so it looks like they are starting to get up near there.
Cheers
Bob.
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Reply By: Robin Miller - Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 07:33

Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 07:33
$104 for 2 nights - thats pretty heavy Bernie

We are staying at Moonbeam cottages next to Rainbow gallery Pyrennies @ $199 for 2 nights - but it comes with spa , open fire , breakfasts and comp wine etc etc- and I don't have to drag a van there.

Something doesn't add up !

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Reply By: Stevesub1 - Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 07:47

Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 07:47
Quoted $86 per night on the Gold Coast for unpowered site for 3 adults and 2 kids last month - outside school holiday time. Did day trip from home with 2 hour drive each way instead.
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Reply By: Kris and Kev - Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 08:17

Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 08:17
We stayed at the Woodman Point Holiday Park – Fremantle back in September and paid $36 a night for a powered site. Very good park and not too far to Perth, either by train or car. Kevin
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Reply By: Member - bbuzz (NSW) - Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 08:44

Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 08:44
Hi Bernadette,
That is way over the top!

I looked them up and that is their normal rate with a rise to $59 over Xmas and New Year.

Word will get around and their custom will decline.

bill
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Follow Up By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 11:09

Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 11:09
I would think word has already got around Bill with only 3 vans in the park.

It is these sorts of stories which have made me rethink the trip around the block, I can no longer see the point when people rip us off with those sorts of prices.

As someone said, you can rent a house for less money than it costs to hire a bit of grass to park your van on.

Cheers, Bruce.
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Follow Up By: Andrew D. - Friday, Nov 08, 2013 at 05:11

Friday, Nov 08, 2013 at 05:11
"It is these sorts of stories which have made me rethink the trip around the block, I can no longer see the point when people rip us off with those sorts of prices."
Reason don't use caravan parks. Nearly always free camp or use community operated sites $5 to $10. Spent This year accommodation costs have been under $50
Wouldn't go around the top again. To many big ripoff prices, to many travellers now, to many places locked off or locked up, to much distance of little to see. There is plenty of other places in Aus.
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Reply By: Lyn W3 - Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 08:53

Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 08:53
With the cost of running a business in Australia, with all the rules, regulations and restrictions, very high wages and high insurance I just cannot see how a business can operate for ONLY $52.00 a night.
These business are not run as a charity.
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Reply By: The Landy - Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 09:19

Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 09:19
This type of post always raises a couple of questions in my mind…

Firstly, what do people expect to pay?

And secondly, how do you arrive at this figure? Is it based on what you think is fair and reasonable, or based on the actual cost of providing the service, complying with statutory regulations, having suitable insurance cover, paying wages (see note below) and making a fair return on the large capital required to own a caravan park like this?

Noting, the average weekly wage of Australian’s is $73,000 per annum, and the median wage is $57,000 (which is a better and more representative measure).

It is also worth highlighting that the National Park people in Victoria are raising the cost of an overnight stay in some parks to in excess of $50 per night.

It always seems to be a very emotive topic that tends to lack sensible debate…

My couple of bob’s worth anyway!
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Follow Up By: Lyn W3 - Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 10:27

Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 10:27
And seeing that it was a Big 4 the owners probably have to pay a licensing or franchise fee as well.
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Reply By: riderau - Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 10:15

Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 10:15
I have found that the Big Four seem to charge a little more than some. But I would like to know, when quoted a price for a over nite stay say $50. How many people does this cover? I stayed at a van park last week and was quoted $24 Single and an extra $10 for the Mrs. I thought that Quote covered for a couple? Some van parks say it is for the extra electricity?

Thomo
AnswerID: 521018

Reply By: new boy - Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 10:42

Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 10:42
Hi Bernadette
Did a reconnaissance trip up the coast road while back with a view for a van trip thanks to your post wont be stopping at ledge certainly over the top.Liked the look of Moore River sorry Guilderton out of school holiday time only.
I agree businesses need to make money but being emtpy because you,ve priced yourself out of market doesn,t make good business sense either.
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Reply By: rocco2010 - Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 10:42

Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 10:42
Gidday

Sounds pretty typical of WA tourism operators. Anecdotal evidence is that prices here are higher than in the east. Some of the prices charged in the Margaret River region are eye watering. You need to remember that ledge is just a short drive from perth's fast growing northern suburbs and the demand in holiday time would be high. I guess they charge what they think the market will bear. I am not saying its right or wrong, it's their business and as more and more parks in WA switch to chalets the demand for caravan spaces isn't going to decline.

Cheers.
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Reply By: Bernadette M - Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 10:52

Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 10:52
Thanks everyone for your replies. We are both on pensions and not lucky enough to be earning a decent wage. We have to budget a little more.its just that we had not paid this much at this time, we have stayed at various sites around WA and the fees were around $30- 35 a night for the same period. We will now enquire as to the cost prior to arriving at site. Would have expected to pay more over Xmas or holiday period as we have done previously. Last Xmas we paid $40 a night in Augusta. Just wondering if this has gone up now?. Anyway thanks all again

Bernie
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Follow Up By: Member - Rosss - Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 13:13

Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 13:13
Big 4 charge what they like, recently did 6 weeks work at a big 4 in Qld, when the school holidays came up the owner told the girls in the office to double the price as they will still come, nothing more than a blatant money grab.
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 13:42

Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 13:42
Hi Bernie,
Yeah like you we are now pensioners, be nice to be on $57,000 a year.
I guess you need to have a look at who makes up the bulk of the average park's customer base. Sure most of them have higher rates during peak holiday times. Not everyone is in a financial position to afford whatever the park manager thinks the average punter will tolerate or cough up but just maybe there is a a difference between Grey Nomads who may be doing extended trips and working families who only go away maybe 3 or 4 weeks a year. If I was in the situation of taking the wife and kids away during the school holidays there is no way I would buy a caravan, have it sitting around most of the year and then pay inflated rates for a patch of grass and an ablution facility.
Different altogether if you are on the road full time or much extended holidaying.
I would have thought anything up to maybe $40 per night with an extra few dollars per head for over 2 people to be a fair price for somewhere like Ledge Point.
If it starts getting to $50+ per night as a norm I will start to look at alternatives to dragging a van around with the capital outlay of van and larger vehicle, extra fuel usage, licence fees and insurance.
Overseas starting to look better all the time.

Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 14:09

Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 14:09
Pop


The cost of developing a single caravan site (that is one spot) has been conservatively estimated to be as high as $40,000 and this only accounts for the costs of providing the necessary infrastructure. Including, cement blocks, power to and underground power within the site, underground sewerage and toilet blocks. Not to mention other additional requirements to meet the Caravan Park and Camping Ground regulations.

It doesn’t include the cost of land, which is the other major upfront expense , particularly on the most desirable locations where land prices are highest, such as along Australia’s coastline.

Even taking a conservative approach to the cost of developing a caravan site, at approximately $35,000 per site, a caravan park with 100 sites would cost $3.5M just to develop the infrastructure.

My point is simply…Australia has a high cost base because of the wages we pay, and the value we have put on our land, from which many people have benefitted, caravan park operators are not magically insulated from this.

Whenever these posts arise there is plenty of subjective comment on how we are getting ripped off, but no analysis of the real costs involved in providing the service.

And I get it that we all want to travel as cheaply as possible, especially those who might be on a pension or who aren’t as fortunate as others to be earning the “average wage”. But surely, it isn’t the role of caravan park operators to subsidise the cost of the travelling public?

I don't own a caravan park, rarely visit them, don't invest in them and I don't even know someone who does... but I do like to see some balance in this discussion about the cost of staying in a caravan park.

And the reason is simple, if we don't pay the price they need to stay in business, they will close, and there is plenty of evidence of that happening as they change the land use. Where will that leave the 50/60% of the travelling public that use them?
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Follow Up By: Bob R4 - Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 21:10

Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 21:10
Landy,
Say the average house costs $350,000 (we know they don't!), then to say the rental should be 10 times the rental of our $35,000 CP site, would you fancy paying $500 per night for house rental (less a discount for regular or long term house rental)?
Let's face it, it is right put of proportion to be paying $50 per night for a patch of grass and access to shared facilities, and the CP location is only a marginal factor. I know there are overheads and fees which are significant to CPs which distort my analogy, but some-where between there must be some truth.
Voting with our feet is the only real argument we can use.
Cheers, Bob
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 21:19

Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 21:19
Landy,

Having been in one business or another for most of my adult life (no caravan park) I fully appreciate that the owner/operator of any commercial venture has a bottom line. Unfortunately not many people outside your business gives a rats about whether you business model is a success or not. Everyone, other than the well off have only a certain amount of disposable income. A caravan park is not like a water, power or property rates bill or your weekly groceries. For most of us visiting a caravan park is not obligatory. It's a luxury. As per your last paragraph if we don't pay the price they will close and unfortunately the income is dictated by what the public in general will pay. Whether this is inline with the owners needs/expectations or whatever is somewhat irrelevant. Putting the unit price up to compensate for lower volume is only going to end one way.
This principle is just as applicable whether a caravan park, the local deli or GMH.

Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Friday, Nov 08, 2013 at 08:22

Friday, Nov 08, 2013 at 08:22
Hi Bob & Pop

There may very well be some truth in it, and I guess that is the point I was making earlier in this thread, but let’s see an analysis of the numbers, some facts, because seemingly, all too often many on this forum are disparaging of caravan park operator’s and quick to call their business rip-off’s, but with little evidence other than a viewpoint that it is “more than we want to pay”.

And I’m not suggesting either of you have taken this approach!

I’ve no desire to be either right, or wrong, on this topic but I do like to see some fairness in any debate that attacks the credibility of others, after all, isn’t that the Australia way?

Voting with our feet is an absolute right we have, but the end result may well be the ongoing closure, or change of use, of caravan parks and the resultant reduction in the availability of places for people to stay – that will impact many people who currently rely on this form of accommodation, for whatever reason.

And without doubt, there have been calls from many to have local authorities provide low cost options in communities to cater for budget travellers. Governments have a poor record on infrastructure investment, so if the caravan parks close, who will replace them, and where will that funding come from, the local community? We are already seeing substantial pressure on low cost, or free camp sites, and I think it is folly to believe the provision of these will continue on a “free” basis, especially when you see the overcrowding and the state many are often left in…

As a final comment, I often feel that instead of degenerating these business people, it might actually be more worthwhile to write to your local parliamentary representative and ask them to remove some of the red-tape that caravan park operator’s face, this may actually be more productive and eventuate in a better outcome for all, rather than simply “voting with our feet” as eventually, the “voting with your feet” strategy will impact us all..

And with the weekend approaching, enjoy.

Cheers, Baz, The Landy
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Friday, Nov 08, 2013 at 10:53

Friday, Nov 08, 2013 at 10:53
G'day Baz,

Mate, not trying to have a go at you personally but as you may already know any prudent person or entity, before laying out 1 dollar to invest in any potential business venture requiring the outlay of significant financial resources will initiate a process of due diligence.
To stick with the caravan park scenario take the situation where there are 3 towns say 100 k's apart. Each has a caravan park with similar facilities and a beach front location. The first and third in line charge $36 a night and pushes that up to $42 a night for holiday season. The guy in the middle, for whatever reasons, charges $50 a night and adds another $6 a night for peak periods.I would suggest that over time people will vote with their feet (or wheels) and his numbers will suffer. To say that those who can't or won't pay the extra and go elsewhere are somehow responsible for that parks demise is in my opinion laying the blame at the wrong door step. Further to assert that anyone who feels the charges are excessive or just plain can't afford to pay have some responsibility to use that park anyway so that another can keep frequenting it is in my opinion unrealistic.
It's not a matter denigrating anyone or their business it's a matter for those people to have a good hard look at themselves and their business model if their custom is dropping off. Maybe they made the wrong decision in the first place or maybe they are getting just a little greedy.

Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Friday, Nov 08, 2013 at 11:13

Friday, Nov 08, 2013 at 11:13
By the way Baz, luv the picture of your ute. Probably my next vehicle in a year or two.

Safe travels
Pop
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Friday, Nov 08, 2013 at 15:11

Friday, Nov 08, 2013 at 15:11
Thanks Pop, still a work in progress, but almost finished!

And on parks, don't worry, I never take it personally, healthy debate usually provides healthy outcomes!

cheers, Baz
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Saturday, Nov 09, 2013 at 11:00

Saturday, Nov 09, 2013 at 11:00
A friend of mine owned a caravan park & made this comment:

"I wish people would bring their dogs & leave their kids at home, at least they train their dogs!"

He went on to add that a large majority of parents seemed to abandon all responsibility for their children after arrival & expect the caravan park staff to become babysitters.

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Reply By: Bernadette M - Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 13:38

Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 13:38
Thanks again everyone.
Just thought I'd mention that we were allocated to "Dog Row". Being one of 6 sites available for those with dogs. After these 6 were full no more available for anyone with a dog. Too bad eh? You were not allowed to walk your dog around the site, had to take it outside the premises for that . That was ok as we do this anyway. A bit strange seeing that where we were(dog row) you had to walk around the park to get to the entrance. ..?? Also you could not leave your dog unattended, even in the caravan. A bit inconvenient as my husband &I like to have a BBQ and a swim together. Never mind - they are the rules.Rules have become more strict in regards to dogs now ,which is understandable as not all of us are dog lovers and you do get the few who abuse the rules and regulations. And there has been a series of dog attacks recently which have not helped. As long as you keep to the rules it's ok.
That's enough from me for now
My husband & I laugh at the "dog row" label they acquire
Though it was "death row" Usually
Cheers for now, Beenadette
AnswerID: 521029

Follow Up By: Andrew D. - Friday, Nov 08, 2013 at 05:36

Friday, Nov 08, 2013 at 05:36
Dogs in caravan parks and any camping area should be banned.
99% of dog owners are inconsiderate towards others.
Dog owners need to realise majority of people don't like their dogs.
Dog owners only ever look after their dog the first day.
Dog owners cannot read and understand signs.
Dog owners cannot understand the words NO DOGS or DOGS MUST BE KEPT ON LEASH means.
Dog owners dont care where their dogs wee or crap and few clean up after their dogs.
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Follow Up By: Lyn W3 - Friday, Nov 08, 2013 at 09:23

Friday, Nov 08, 2013 at 09:23
Andrew,
Some of us really enjoy travelling with our dogs and even think the following:

Children in caravan parks and any camping area should be banned.
99% of children are inconsiderate towards others.
Parents need to realise majority of people don't like their children.
Parents only ever look after their children the first day.
Children cannot read and understand signs.
Parents cannot understand the words NO CHILDREN or CHILDREN MUST BE UNDER ADULT SUPERVISION means.
Parents must not care where their children wee or crap as they leave their disposable nappies everywhere.
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Follow Up By: Member - Rosss - Friday, Nov 08, 2013 at 09:28

Friday, Nov 08, 2013 at 09:28
EXCELLENT, get rid of the kids and the dogs, peace at last
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Follow Up By: Bernadette M - Friday, Nov 08, 2013 at 10:43

Friday, Nov 08, 2013 at 10:43
Enjoy reading all your posts. This is true in both replies. Andrew& Lyn. I love my dog she is part of my family too.
Bernie
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Friday, Nov 08, 2013 at 11:05

Friday, Nov 08, 2013 at 11:05
Andrew and Lyn, you guys have nailed it. Bloody dogs and kids. Should ban the lot of 'em.

Oh, except for my grandkids who are all adorable little angels and wouldn't annoy anyone.
Their two Alaskan Malamutes who are cute as and hardly ever poop should maybe get an exception too (;=))

Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Friday, Nov 08, 2013 at 17:26

Friday, Nov 08, 2013 at 17:26
Um, what about Grey No…

…No sorry, just joking!

Seriously, joking!
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Follow Up By: Andrew D. - Friday, Nov 08, 2013 at 18:05

Friday, Nov 08, 2013 at 18:05
Kids are generally OK and they get tired and sleep.

Pet hates in camping areas
Dogs
Drunks
Smokers
Chainsaws
Generators
Walking pigs
Inconsiderates that make unnecessarily large fires
Inconsiderates that park on top of you when no need
Inconsiderates that have to start fire on good grassed area

Loath them all equally
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Follow Up By: SDG - Friday, Nov 08, 2013 at 19:45

Friday, Nov 08, 2013 at 19:45
Saw a sign outside a caravan park earlier this year(Mildura I think)
Basically said


Family friendly park.
Older people also welcome.
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Reply By: Bernadette M - Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 13:39

Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 13:39
Sorry forgot to mention that I was still referring to Ledge Point Big 4 caravan park in my last post

Cheers Bernadette
AnswerID: 521030

Reply By: Member - Noldi (WA) - Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 15:04

Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 15:04
We spent 10 days in the bush last September, on arriving in Esperance the minister for war mutinied so went to one of the Caravan parks to stay in a cabin, was quoted $180 (2 bedroom) for a night, told them where to stick it went into town and booked onto a Motel for $110 including breakfast. I vote with my feet
AnswerID: 521037

Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Friday, Nov 08, 2013 at 00:42

Friday, Nov 08, 2013 at 00:42
Agree Ian x 2

Having a tray-top I generally gravitate towards CP's, however in a couple of places having been quoted the price for fixed accommodation in a CP, decided it was too expensive, and wound up finding a room in a local Hotel or Motel for less than half the price...
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Reply By: Motherhen - Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 21:43

Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 21:43
Hi Bernie

Next time skip the coast and go out into the wheatbelt. Many towns have very good value Shire run caravan parks, and these towns and communities truly appreciate visitors.

Motherhen
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Follow Up By: rocco2010 - Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 22:37

Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 22:37
Motherhen

Good advice (as always from you). I am a bit of a wheatbelt fan, not so much from now on, but certainly in late winter and spring when the flowers are about.

Cheers

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Reply By: SDG - Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 22:02

Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 22:02
I'm booked into a park on Kangaroo Island next January. Expected to pay a bit being holidays and location. For me and two kids, i'm quoted at $30.00 a night, powered. No doubt I will be looking at more now, as I have an extra kid coming.
AnswerID: 521066

Reply By: Member - Brian R (WA) - Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 23:51

Thursday, Nov 07, 2013 at 23:51
Hi Guys
Yes this topic does stir the nest.....We are now grey nomads and simply cannot afford to pay these sort of prices if we want to pull our van around Oz. Have spent a weekend at Ledge Point, with a caravan club, a few years back and like a few other parks , they gave little discount, considering the amount of vans booked. a very nice park , but there for business ,,,PERIOD.
When it comes to the debate of caravan parks and pricing,our latest van has all the mod cons for free camping and we will do as much of that as we can. However, if we have the need to stay at a park it will have to be to a 'budget' or we will pull over in some quiet spot for the night and take our money to another TOWN.
Brian
AnswerID: 521070

Reply By: Andrew D. - Friday, Nov 08, 2013 at 05:30

Friday, Nov 08, 2013 at 05:30
With Camps Australia Wide, Boiling Billy, Wikicamps and stealth camping who needs caravan parks. Around 30 nights in a caravan park is $1,000. More to do with my money than waste it on caravan parks. If spend that amount of money in a caravan park in a month leaves not a lot to spread around to other businesses. If you spend the money at caravan parks you don't have a lot left for other things. Don't have a spare $250 week to waste on caravan parks.
As a self funded retiree and low interest rates wouldn't be able to travel as much if used caravan parks. Our travelling would be cut down by 2/3 if we used caravan parks. Because we don't use caravan parks our money goes further and heaps more businesses benefit other than the ripoff caravan parks. In 40 years never been silly enough to use a ripoff Big4. Big4 stands for Big$$$

Our travelling religion dictates we don't use caravan parks. Is one of our religions 10 commandments of travelling.
AnswerID: 521076

Follow Up By: ExplorOz Team - Michelle - Friday, Nov 08, 2013 at 14:57

Friday, Nov 08, 2013 at 14:57
and you forgot to mention ExplorOz.... (Places) has all the campsite locations for free ;)
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Reply By: Slow one - Friday, Nov 08, 2013 at 17:17

Friday, Nov 08, 2013 at 17:17
Bernie,
We have to pickup a van at the Gold coast next week and here are the prices.

Maryborough Qld. $85 a night for modern self contained cabin.
Tweed heads. $76.50 for modern studio self contained cabin. (schoolies week)
Willowbank van park. $25 a night. Amenities a little old but clean and good sites.
Mundubbera van park. $31. All modern amenities and good sites.
Gracemere van park. $27. as above.


AnswerID: 521132

Follow Up By: slave - Saturday, Nov 09, 2013 at 13:26

Saturday, Nov 09, 2013 at 13:26
We just spent 6 nights at Gracemere Caravan Park.
We have never spent that long in a caravan park before but this time we were there to visit someone in hospital. Simple and Basic and exactly just what we needed
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