geniuses only apply

Submitted: Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 19:27
ThreadID: 10511 Views:1759 Replies:13 FollowUps:33
This Thread has been Archived
when using a snatch block where do i attach the ends of the bridle strap/equaliser strap . i have a troopy with a arb commercial bullbar . the question is do i attatch the ends of the strap too the eyes under the bullbar or do i put some rated hooks on the bullbar aproximately 3 inches away from the uprights . this is the only possible place too put rated hooks as there is absolutely nowhere else they can go . been to arb and everywhere else and there is nowhere on the chassis that rated hooks can go . (i am hesitant too put hooks on the bullbar but what else can i do) .
Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: Member - JohnR - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 20:14

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 20:14
Glenno is a good question with all of our trucks. Truckster gave a pointer a couple of weeks back to a video of a sports car being pulled apart by a snatch, but really how many of us have capable enough recovery hooks front and rear.

I have a hook on the rear but has it the recovery strength of a solid strap, like wise on the one on the front provided in manufacturer. On the rear the tow bar seems stronger in the snatch department than is the hook I have on the chassis, but generally is regarded as a no-no for the potential of the ball to be a missile.

I have not answered your question there but posed more. On my old cruiser I had two recovery hooks on top of the chassis..........Regards

JohnR - Not enough of the right travelling, some here..... some over there.......
AnswerID: 46628

Follow Up By: Voxson (Adelaide) - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 20:18

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 20:18
Snatchblock - Snatchstrap?___________________________________
Simpson trip 05/04 then turn left at Birdsville to Darwin via Lawn Hill etc
___________________________________
0
FollowupID: 308513

Follow Up By: glenno - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 20:20

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 20:20
i saw that video :-(
0
FollowupID: 308515

Follow Up By: glenno - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 20:22

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 20:22
i mean a 2 line pull with the winch using a snatch block not a snatch strap .
0
FollowupID: 308516

Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 20:53

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 20:53
JohnR

A class 4/ heavy duty tow bar bolted to the chassis is the strongest point to attach a strap or cable. The tow bar is normally bolted to both chassis rails and sometimes to a cross rail.

Yes the towball will be a missile when it lets go. To attach a recovery strap to a towbar first remove the trailer ball mount, insert the eye of the strap into the square section of the towbar and then replace the pin so that it holds the eye of the strap in place.

Wayne
0
FollowupID: 308524

Follow Up By: glenno - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 20:58

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 20:58
yes i agree wayne , i pulled out a brand new jeep cherokee off the beach bogged down to the sills . i put the strap into the square section of the towbar and inserted the pin . but the only problem with that is i dont like sharp edges around recovery straps .
0
FollowupID: 308525

Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 21:19

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 21:19
glenno

Good point that is why if I have to recover another 4wd I will use their strap, if it is rated. You can also wrap a small towel around the strap where it would rub on the towbar. Because of the amount of recovies I do , I have a pintel hook attached to the towbar, very strong and no sharpe edges.

Wayne
0
FollowupID: 308531

Follow Up By: Member - Ross - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 22:22

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 22:22
I've said it before and I'll say it again IMHO it is not good practice to use the pin in this way. There is a risk of bending it, albeit small ... however if you do you're stuffed.

Better to remove the ball from the draw bar and put the shackle through the hole.Fidei defensor

Rosco
0
FollowupID: 308542

Follow Up By: Member - JohnR - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 22:51

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 22:51
There has been a bit of good discussion here in regard to the connection points making sure they are stong enough. I was hoping to get that after the video post and realised not all points are that strong to the chassis.

I take note of Ross and Waynes comments, I think I will make up a stronger rear tow point with a thicker pin than the standard too, the current one ok for 2-4 tonnes perhaps? A double tongue with a big diameter pin vertically. That would fix the rear anchor point anyway.

I think I will have to look to a better front anchor point for winch and snatch realising the stresses are different but may as well have them for snatch rather than just an anchor for winching. Reckon the front GU point may not be good enough - looks hollow but I don't know.

I looked at the piccs below I like mine painted a light colour to see in unfortunate circumstances.Regards

JohnR - Not enough of the right travelling, some here..... some over there.......
0
FollowupID: 308550

Reply By: Voxson (Adelaide) - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 20:16

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 20:16
You attach the snatchblock to what you are anchored to (tree or another vehicle)then bring your winch line out and through the snatchblock and back to your vehicles recovery point.....Which will prob be one or two of those eyes in your bullbar........
If you are using two blocks then the second block will be anchored to your vehicle....

I think that was your question?___________________________________
Simpson trip 05/04 then turn left at Birdsville to Darwin via Lawn Hill etc
___________________________________
AnswerID: 46629

Follow Up By: glenno - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 20:23

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 20:23
my question is what recovery point ????
0
FollowupID: 308517

Reply By: Voxson (Adelaide) - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 20:34

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 20:34
I always use the eyes under my arb bullbar...... I normally (when i am not panicking) run a single tree protector (doubled) from each of my eyes to a common single point to winch from.___________________________________
Simpson trip 05/04 then turn left at Birdsville to Darwin via Lawn Hill etc
___________________________________
AnswerID: 46630

Follow Up By: glenno - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 20:44

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 20:44
are your eyes reinforced . i mean the ones under the bullbar . i notice on new arb bullbars they are but my old one isnt . if i use these eyes i will definately get them reinforced with some extra steel . i also notice that i cant fit a standard 4 tonne shackle thru the eyes as the large rounded ends of the shackle prevent the pin from going thru the eye .
0
FollowupID: 308520

Reply By: Jimbo (WA) - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 20:35

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 20:35
Glenno - I'm no genius, but here's my two cents worth.......

First of all, I assume you meant snatch strap - as opposed to snatch block - since you're talking about an equalising strap?

Without knowing you're setup, I'm not sure how far away from your chassis rails "3 inches from the uprights" is.

Here's what I reckon:

1. Recovery hooks are the best option, because it eliminates the need for shackles between your strap and the eyes under your bar.

2. If you don't have this option, then use shackles to join your strap to the eyes.
This is still very safe - just not as safe as option 1.

I would not have a problem fitting recovery hooks to a bullbar -

- providing they were done in such a fashion that the full strength of the bar was not effected

- and providing that they were pulling straight from the chassis rails

Personally, I think that the best way to go is to end up with two recovery hooks and two eyes at each end of the vehicle - then ALL options are covered.

At the moment I just have two hooks - which i had to fit myself - at each end and no provision for eyes.

Cheers, Jim

"Lead, Follow.....or get out of the way!!"
AnswerID: 46631

Follow Up By: Jimbo (WA) - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 20:39

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 20:39
Bugger!

You guys were quick! Ok so we're talking about snatch blocks and winching.

I'm with Voxson, the winch goes thru the pulley and then secured to one of your eyes under the bar. In this scenario, this is a better option than using a hook.Cheers, Jim

"Lead, Follow.....or get out of the way!!"
0
FollowupID: 308518

Follow Up By: glenno - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 20:50

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 20:50
jimbo when you say you have two hooks at each end ,where on the front do you have the hooks .
0
FollowupID: 308521

Follow Up By: Jimbo (WA) - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 22:15

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 22:15
Glenno,

The front ones are where i think your eyes are. My ARB bar is a "combination bar" so it might be a bit different to yours. anyway, here's some pics:

Here is the front one - there is another hook in an identical position out of view on the passenger's side.

[ View Image]

Here is the rear one. The hooks are out of site under the spotties and coming off the rear bar where it's connected to the chassis rail.

[ View Image]Cheers, Jim

"Lead, Follow.....or get out of the way!!"
0
FollowupID: 308540

Follow Up By: glenno - Saturday, Feb 14, 2004 at 13:08

Saturday, Feb 14, 2004 at 13:08
jimbo your hilux chassis setup is completely diferent to my 75 series troopy . if i had somewhere on my chassis to put hooks like on yours i wouldnt have a problem . thankyou for the photos and cheers .
0
FollowupID: 308610

Reply By: Member - Ross - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 20:48

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 20:48
Glenno

If the bar is what I think it is and I'm fairly confident that is the case, I would suggest you use a sling attached to both eyes with the cable attached to the midpoint of same.

It is my understanding the eyes to which you refer are rated as recovery points BUT not necessarily snatching points.

The theory being that whilst they MAY not be capable of withstanding snatch forces, they are adequate for a lesser and gradually applied force as in the case of winching.

The other factor is that they can be monitored under this gradually applied force insomuch as any deformation will be gradual and obvious to you as you stand nearby operating the winch. In this event you obviously back off at the first sign of deformation as the steel has gone past the elastic range where it reverts to its original shape with a reduction in stress.

Steel will deform significantly under load prior to fracture.

Only my opinion, but I think it answers your question ??

CheersFidei defensor

Rosco
AnswerID: 46633

Follow Up By: glenno - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 20:52

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 20:52
your a genious thanks .
0
FollowupID: 308523

Reply By: Member Eric - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 20:50

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 20:50
I always use the chassis hooks , this way , is bomething lets go , only the hook becomes the projectile , and I dont rip off half my bull bar . If you have a tree trunk protector , run it through your bull bar and attach each end to the tow hooks , so if they break of they dont go far

I hope this helps Venus Bay
AnswerID: 46635

Follow Up By: glenno - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 21:04

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 21:04
thanks eric but the only problem is there is nowhere on my chassis to put hooks . all i can do is listen too experienced 4wders like yourself . i think i need another xxxx .
0
FollowupID: 308527

Follow Up By: Member Eric - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 21:33

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 21:33
you can fit tow hooks were the bullbar meets the chassis Venus Bay
0
FollowupID: 308532

Follow Up By: glenno - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 21:42

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 21:42
eric i went to arb and there guys went over the troopy and in the end they said they cant fit recovery hooks as drilling the chassis would weaken it too much , and then said go and get some original tow hooks from the wreckers . i dont want to use tow hooks for recovery purposes .
0
FollowupID: 308534

Follow Up By: Member - Ross - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 22:30

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 22:30
Glenno

It's obviously a winch bar ... so another suggestion.

On the heavier central section where the winch is mounted, get two recovery hooks (the type with 2 holes) and drill 3 holes through the top horizontal portion of the bar. Under the bar have a piece of say 75x10 ms plate with 3 matching holes.

So you end up with 2 bolts through the hook, the bar and the plate under + an additional bolt through the bar and the plate under. If the bolts are 12mm high tensile (Grade 8.8) you will never tear them out.

You'll straighten the hook first.

CheersFidei defensor

Rosco
0
FollowupID: 308544

Follow Up By: glenno - Saturday, Feb 14, 2004 at 14:00

Saturday, Feb 14, 2004 at 14:00
ross unfortunately it is a high mount winch bar and between the 2 uprights the winch is mounted vertically so there is no horizontal plate in between the uprights , just a winch .
0
FollowupID: 308625

Reply By: Wayne (NSW) - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 21:09

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 21:09
glenno

Troopies came out with 2 factory fitted recovery points as stanard. Unfortunateley when the bull was fitted the recovery points were removed. Recovery points that are bolted to the chassis rails are in the strongest postion. The eyes under the bar were ment for recovery but I heard ARB did't recommend the use of the eyes because they were bending in when a bridle was attached. They then reinforced the eye by weldjng another large washer onthe eye to make it thicker. A recovery point which is close to or bolted to the chassis rail should be the first choise of recovery points

Wayne

AnswerID: 46637

Follow Up By: glenno - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 21:13

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 21:13
i agree with you 100% wayne but what do i do if there is nowhere to attach a 1000lb rated recovery hook to my chassis ?
0
FollowupID: 308529

Follow Up By: glenno - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 21:15

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 21:15
sorry wayne i meant 10000lb not 1000lb .
0
FollowupID: 308530

Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 21:36

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 21:36
glenno

If you look at the inside of the chassis rail you should see holes with captive nuts, this is where the recovery points were bolted to. They may be using these to attach the bullbar. You might just have to reinforce the eyes. A 3.25t shackel through each eye should be strong enough. Even though the shackel is only rated at 3.25t they will break at 6 times the rating. 19.5 ton,

Wayne
0
FollowupID: 308533

Follow Up By: glenno - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 21:47

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 21:47
wayne i will see if i can find these captive nuts but i think you are right in saying these were used to attach the bullbar . i guess if the eyes break its better than pulling the bullbar off (russell coight style) .
0
FollowupID: 308535

Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 22:08

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 22:08
glenno

Just read one of your followup about OE recovery hooks. They are strong. That is all I use on the front of my cruiser, and haved used on many other 4wd. However I must say at this point that when I do a snatch recovery, I go as slow as possible to recover the stuck 4wd. This reduces the shock loading on all the recovery gear.

Wayne
0
FollowupID: 308538

Reply By: KiwiAngler - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 21:15

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 21:15
4WD Warehouse has an aluminium fitting that goes into the channel section of your towbar, once you remove the towball and bar, which is held in place with the towbar pin and allows your to attach a rated shackle to it.
AnswerID: 46638

Reply By: Member - Neil (N.S.W.) - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 21:49

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 21:49
Just a quick quest the eyed type recovery points at the front of the bullbar should run vertical or horizontal
thanks Neil GONE WOOP-WOOP
AnswerID: 46641

Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 21:53

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 21:53
Vertical

Wayne
0
FollowupID: 308536

Follow Up By: glenno - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 21:58

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 21:58
thanks for the advice . glenno
0
FollowupID: 308537

Reply By: Willem - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 22:18

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 22:18
Glenno,

An idea. Could you drill a hole( or use a gas axe ) next to your winch on the bullbar and fit a whatever rated eye. Weld a plate to both sides of the bar to give more strength. Then you can hook up to it when using a snatchblock.

Cheers,

Willem
Out on the Gibber
AnswerID: 46643

Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 22:33

Friday, Feb 13, 2004 at 22:33
I have seen that done. A 5/8 inch or 16mm hole drilled on the flat of the bar,just under the uprights. A reinforcing plate at the back of the eye bolt, one on each side and you are ready to go.

Wayne
0
FollowupID: 308545

Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Saturday, Feb 14, 2004 at 00:39

Saturday, Feb 14, 2004 at 00:39
Glenno,

Don't take this the wrong way dude, but doing some driver training with a club would be very advantagous to you. These are basic things they go through. You can join a club, do the training and P off if you dont want the club lifestyle.. But do it, it will be very helpful.. Lots of basic things you will learn.

They go through ALL of this stuff, from start to finish, show you what to improve in the way of recovery points.

Anyway
You need to go from your winch, through the snatch block, which is anchored to the tree, back to a rated recovery point on your car for the hook.

If you dont have one or are not sure, take a trip to local 4b shop they will assist you. Basically creating an 'A' Shape.

Get it right, it can be lethal to get this wrong, people have died phukin it up.
AnswerID: 46651

Follow Up By: glenno - Saturday, Feb 14, 2004 at 08:19

Saturday, Feb 14, 2004 at 08:19
truckster , my brand new wire rope will go around mysnatch block which is connected to my tree protector via a 4.75tonne bow shackle , then back too a equaliser strap to equalise the tention . (all my equipment is rated at least 8000lb , my question is this . i have been to arb and they say there is nowhere on the front chassis to put any rated 10000lb hooks so where do i attach my equaliser strap ?
0
FollowupID: 308567

Follow Up By: glenno - Saturday, Feb 14, 2004 at 14:05

Saturday, Feb 14, 2004 at 14:05
truckster ,thanks for the advice . joining a 4wd club is a good idea (if only too see what other people have done). i want to do everything by the book but its hard when the middle page is missing .
0
FollowupID: 308626

Reply By: Dave from Fraser Coast 4WD Club - Saturday, Feb 14, 2004 at 07:37

Saturday, Feb 14, 2004 at 07:37
don't take this the worng way either

But.... Arb and others have been known to be wrong in the past.

Not knowing the shape of your bar...

I have a troopy that has had an ARB bar and now a TJM one, the recovery hooks can be bolted in by using longer HT bolts where the bar joins the chassis rail.

I aslo hire troopies all the time, with a variety of bars on them, and I have not yet come across a bar that prevents this style of attachment.

The hooks do not have to be vertical, they can be mounted horizontally (as the mounting for the origonal recovery eyes would have been.

Believe me, it is possible, just find someone who actually wants the work!!

and at the rear, remove the tongue and use the hitch reciever, have never seen or heard of a reciever pin being bent>
AnswerID: 46654

Follow Up By: glenno - Saturday, Feb 14, 2004 at 08:21

Saturday, Feb 14, 2004 at 08:21
thanks dave
0
FollowupID: 308569

Reply By: Member - Frank - Saturday, Feb 14, 2004 at 10:49

Saturday, Feb 14, 2004 at 10:49
I sugest you do what I did took a look and imediatly fitted tow bar to the front as well as the back do not like the way my toyota did not conect accros the front attached strong nudge bar for my arials only worried about radiator dont travel fast enough to worry about the rest

frank

ps hate snatching prefer to use shovel if can think to many do it to quickCBS
Cant Bl**dy Sitstill
AnswerID: 46662

Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Saturday, Feb 14, 2004 at 22:17

Saturday, Feb 14, 2004 at 22:17
Bit hard to fit a towbar to the front of his troopie with a winch already there.

Wayne
0
FollowupID: 308673

Follow Up By: glenno - Sunday, Feb 15, 2004 at 09:26

Sunday, Feb 15, 2004 at 09:26
wayne this is what i will do . i will drill 2 holes and attach a 10000lb rated hook a couple of inches either side of the uprights on the bullbar. I will also bolt a steel angle plate from the uprights to where the hooks will go . i will not use a snatch strap on the front of my vehicle because even though all my equipment is rated at 8000lb i cannot come up with a suitable 8000lb anchor point . these 2 points will be used for self recovery with the winch . I will only use snatch strap on the rear towbar using a special towbar thingy i can buy from arb . (i still dont like snatching from the towbar though) glenno
0
FollowupID: 308711

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (13)