Refilling gas bottles

Submitted: Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 09:27
ThreadID: 105284 Views:7534 Replies:12 FollowUps:52
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On another forum I was talking about the LPG Gas Bottle debacle....that is, getting charged for 9kg of LPG when the bottle is only 8.5kg & basically being ripped off on price.
Why isn't there a gauge installed at these places & we get charged for the gas we purchased? just like putting LPG into your car. We have all taken a gas bottle to an outlet maybe half or quarter full & end up paying for a complete refill of say,9KG!! Why can't places weigh bottles when you bring them in for a refill , a 9kg weighs 9kg fill it with lpg & it weighs 18kg....you pay for 9kg of gas....so if the bowser price for vehicles is 60 p/litre then you pay $5.40 NOT $25.....$32 or even $39!!!! There seems to be no uniformity or governing body and I suppose the public are content with being ripped. Why is it in QLD & (I think) no where else that before you take your filled bottle out of the store it must have a plug in the outlet!! I was in Longreach & had to pay $2.50 for a plug. Don't get me wrong I think it is a great & safe idea.....maybe would have helped those unlucky people at Lake Eyre a few years ago over that horrid explosion when their gas bottle leaked. Anyway, maybe ALL of us caravan & camping people could start a petition or write to our Federal/State MP's...Rob
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Reply By: baz&pud (tassie) - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 09:52

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 09:52
Hi yu NTVRX,
It's a very good point you make, and one i have thought about for some time, but the problem here in Tassie is , because of OH&S in a lot of places you can't get your bottle refilled you have to swap&go, but again you pay for 9kgs and only get 8.5kgs, and in most cases the price varies from place to place.
Cheers.
baz
Go caravaning, life is so much shorter than death.

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Follow Up By: Member - bbuzz (NSW) - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 09:59

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 09:59
Country places used to do it way back in the past but now with the outlets selling everything and the kitchen sink, with pimply faced babies doing the work, there is no time or facility to do that.

I used BCF wherever I could find one on my circumnavigation and they were good value. I always took it empty though but they were consistently the cheapest.

I even got free plugs in Queensland!

bill
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Follow Up By: NTVRX - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 09:59

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 09:59
Hi Baz, What annoys me too is that if it's not a swap & go the person filling your 8.5kg bottle charges for a 9kg. Recently whilst away in Cobram Victoria I went into a hardware store & had my 8.5kg refilled. I was charged $28. I told the guy it was an 8.5kg & not a 9kg His reply was "They are the same" WTF!!! I told him to go into a pub,pay for a pot of beer but you only get a 7 ounce glass then how would he react. His care factor was zero & I left knowing I was priveledged to have been in that hardware store. Went to loct BP on the highway $25 & very happy to see & talk to people.
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Follow Up By: Member - Tony (ACT) - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 10:02

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 10:02
And Baz most of the swap & go are old badly painted, dented bottles, and often people are swapping newer bottles off their van being refilled for the first time.
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Follow Up By: Herbal - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 10:06

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 10:06
It is not 8.5kg. It is 9kg...

There is no such thing as a metric gas 'anything'. If you wanted to be very correct, you would call it a 20 pound bottle.

If you want to convert pound to kilos it is 454 grams to the pound.
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Reply By: Herbal - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 09:57

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 09:57
One kg of gas = 1.96 lt...close enough to call it a 2:1 ratio.

I think 60 cents/Lt might be conservative....So charged by the litre, it would be $11 +

It is not the same as filling your car with gas. A bottle is not "self serve". There are many expenses involved that are not applied to car filling...

I think if one was to actually work out what the per litre charge should be, it might be about the same or maybe more than the current charge.

I think before considering a petition, one should consider the old adage - be careful what you ask for because you just might get it -.
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Follow Up By: NTVRX - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 10:05

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 10:05
I am talking about 60 cents per litre for LPG for your car....that's the price here in Victoria at my local servo. I know it's not self serve but the staff are trained and have a certificate in compliance for ALL fuels in servos. So,on your theory if you go into one of the large supermarkets,select your own groceries,scan & pay you should get them cheaper because there is no checkout person actually serving you!!!
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Follow Up By: Herbal - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 10:13

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 10:13
Yes, I know you are talking about 60c for car LPG...That is also what I was talking about ;)

Yes, actually it is... Self serve supermarkets are generally cheaper than staff served supermarkets.
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Follow Up By: TTTSA - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 11:26

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 11:26
I think I would have to say BULLDUST to your comment about self serve supermarkets being cheaper, at least here in SA. I go thru the staffed checkout everytime, bloke next to me goes thru the self serve checkout, all the same price.
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Follow Up By: Herbal - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 11:46

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 11:46
What ?

Do you honestly expect readers here to believe that prices are the same for each customer when they shop in the SAME supermarket but use a different CHECKOUT ?? So the shelf price in the SAME supermarket is the SAME price for each person in the SAME supermarket regardless of which CHECKOUT is used in that SAME supermarket ???

Well, bugger me, what is the world coming to ?

Lucky for me, I said "Self serve supermarkets are generally cheaper than staff served supermarkets." ... Yes, lucky, otherwise I might be on the same page as you.. !!
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Follow Up By: TTTSA - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 13:23

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 13:23
Ok, but i've never seen a supermarket where they have no staff to serve you. Where abouts are these?

We have supermarkets here that have some staffed checkouts and some self serve checkouts in the same supermarket.
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Follow Up By: NTVRX - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 14:01

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 14:01
Hi Herbal, Can you enlighten me as to what supermarkets are cheaper than the staffed.....I know we are off the subject here but I only shop at Aldi (Staff on checkout) Coles & Woolies (staff on checkout & you can swipe your items at terminal however there is a supervisor to assist) IGA (checkout person) The prices do not change whether there are staff or not IMHO.....maybe TTTSA & myself do not understand what you are getting at or is it a case of if we say white you say black just for an argument or are you just "cat amongst the pigeons"
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Follow Up By: Herbal - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 15:21

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 15:21
Read above (reply 2 of 6). Then read above (followup 1 of 6).

No, I cannot enlighten you...Your tunnel vision is so chronic, that I doubt anyone could enlighten you.

I suggest that you go ahead with writing letters and starting petitions. That would be the best thing for you do to.

Just remember - be careful what you ask for because you just might get it -.
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Follow Up By: TTTSA - Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 08:24

Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 08:24
Herbal, Lucky for me, I said "Self serve supermarkets are generally cheaper than staff served supermarkets."

You can't enlighten me as to where one of these self serve supermarkets are?

That is all I asked. Obviously I am not as educated as yourself.

But I recognise BULLDUST when I see it!
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Follow Up By: snow - Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 10:59

Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 10:59
Years ago we used to have store like "Jack the Slasher" which were warehouse type arrangements. Products were selected basically from pellets / racks etc. and straight to checkout so essentially there were minimal floor staff. The attraction to this was that prices were generally lower.

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Reply By: John and Regina M - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 10:45

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 10:45
Never realised there were so many whingers out there.
AnswerID: 522174

Follow Up By: Ross M - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 17:42

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 17:42
J&R
Oh, yes there is. Plenty of hot air, or is that gas.
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Follow Up By: Ross M - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 17:44

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 17:44
Forgot to say, the train derailed shortly after leaving the station.
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Reply By: The Landy - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 11:05

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 11:05
Hi NTVRX

I may be incorrect, so putting that upfront…but I’ll toss this into the mix!

Whilst bottles may be marked 9kg, they are not filled to capacity due to expansion, so with a 9kg bottle you will not be 9kg of gas in any case (or shouldn’t be), is my understanding. A bottle marked 8.5kg is actually 9kg in reality.

On price, I suspect the cost of the gas is secondary to the cost of having someone fill it. So the “labour” cost of filling a half full bottle versus an empty bottle is essentially the same.

Why the variance between various suppliers – like most things, different outlets may have different cost structures or simply charge what the market will bear! So I guess it pays to shop around…

Cheers, Baz – The Landy
AnswerID: 522175

Follow Up By: rocco2010 - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 11:38

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 11:38
Gidday Baz

You are on the money about pricing. Years ago in WA there was a parliamentary inquiry into gas prices. Despite all WA's gas riches, LPG is imported and the price structure, like all fuels, is pretty hard to follow. Apart from the fact the WA motorists pay more than in the eastern states for gas, there are great differences in what domestic consumers in rural and regional areas pay for the big bottles for heating and cooking, often suppliers in towns quite close together had different prices.
And guess what the inquiry found? The suppliers often said they
charged what they thought the market would bear! It's called free enterprise.
And after the inquiry reported nothing changed.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Geoff in SA - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 11:45

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 11:45
this has always been an issue with bottles that are partly filled
My answer is to decant the partly filled bottle into the van bottles and to fill the empty one.
That way I know I am paying for a complete refill.

Is it legal. Have I been trained on how to do it.
Well I have been filling LPG bottles for many years.
How often do we ever sit a filled bottle on level ground and bleed off the overfill.
I do as a matter of course. Its the only expansion place left for gas/liquid if we are to be in the sun or a hot travel.

I see many a "trained" operator just shut it off then turn off the gas and give it to you.
I have questioned a few and they are so unaware of the need to bleed.

Regards

Geoff
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Reply By: Member - Andrew L (QLD) - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 12:50

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 12:50
Lets agree on something.

Bottles have lids and caps. Cylinders have valves and manifolds.

; 0)
AnswerID: 522180

Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 14:03

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 14:03
Couple of interesting clips on nomenclature and bottle capacities.........



Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Herbal - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 14:22

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 14:22
Nop... we can't agree on that cos you are not correct...:)

A bottle is a storage vessel with and opening that is smaller than it's body.

A cylinder is a geometric object with two flat round ends of equal size

I for one have never seen a gas storage vessel of any description with two flat round ends.
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Follow Up By: oldtrack123 - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 16:31

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 16:31
HI
I will stick with what the trades calls them !

BOTTLES!!!

And yes some times it does get confusing when even various gases distributors refer them as both bottles & cylinders!!.

I wonder what other term , Andrew might have for CYLINDERICAL TANKS espicially those with semi hemispherical [domed]ends!! ,in
ve ertical or horizontal positions.
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Follow Up By: Herbal - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 17:12

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 17:12
I think Andrew L was actually being clever :)

He was referring to engine cylinders...;)

I don't know about what other terms Andrew might have...but by George oldtrack, you just described both my ex wife and my mistress...The ex wife is most definitely domed at both ends - very much so !!! In fact domed at any angle, even side on !!

I guess that means that vertical and horizontal positions, describe the mistress !

:)
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 11:50

Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 11:50
If that Elgas flyer is correct - how come the Swap and Go 8.5kg bottle is actually slightly smaller in diameter than the 9kg bottles. I found this when I swapped my old 9kg Elgas bottle that came with my camper for a 8.5kg Swap and Go bottle and the bottle bracket on the trailer was too large and I had to modify it (reducing the diameter of the main retaining ring) to take Swap and Go Bottles.

Garry
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Reply By: Ron N - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 14:18

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 14:18
The OP, in trying to compare auto LPG and BBQ LPG is comparing apples with oranges.
Auto LPG is a different gas mix to household LPG. Auto LPG can vary considerably in its constituents, whereas household LPG is always around 99% propane.

Elgas supply household LPG from a dedicated household LPG operation, and Elgas's Autogas division is named Unigas.
The Unigas website clearly states that Autogas and household LPG are different products from two different refining streams.
The other LPG-supply companies have a similar division of Autogas from household LPG.

http://www.unigas.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=28&Itemid=35#4

Autogas comprises a mix of hydrocarbons, and the Fuel Standards Act does not require any particular constituent gas, or gas mix.
The gases used in Autogas are mostly propane and butane, but there can be many others as well - and the propane content can vary from 30% to 99%. Butane has the closest properties to petrol.
Autogas is essentially a waste product from refining, it was burnt off for decades because it was regarded as having no use as a fuel.

The big cylinders used to supply household gas bottle refills, are filled from a dedicated household LPG tanker, not an Autogas tanker.
Household LPG has to contain around 99% propane, because household LPG appliances are jetted for propane. Butane requires different jet orifices.

You CAN use Autogas in household appliances, in a pinch - but the burn results will vary according to the particular Autogas mix you've been supplied with. A high butane content Autogas will burn poorly in household appliances.

As far as the household LPG gas bottle costs go - well, to compare Autogas costs with bottled LPG costs is comparing bulk usage, to bottled usage, where the costs are substantially higher because of the vastly increased handling costs associated with bottles.

The cost of LPG is set internationally, and we have little control over it. The price-setting is done by the Saudis (who are the worlds biggest LPG producers) and it is called the Saudi Aramco Contract Price (Saudi CP) and is expressed in $US per metric tonne.
The Saudi CP is set on the propane and butane commodity prices, and published on the first business day of every month, and remains fixed for the remainder of that month.

As regards the 8.5Kg VS the 9Kg argument - all the "9Kg" household LPG bottles are supposed to be 8.5Kg. What happened is that because of the huge number of manufacturers and suppliers, some got greedy and started claiming their bottles held 9Kg of gas. They don't, they were scamming you with their claims.

Another scam is the dip tube length in the bottle which governs the fill height. All LPG bottles are only filled to about 80% capacity to allow for gas expansion. The dip tube length can vary substantially between manufacturers - thus you can be short-changed in a refill done by a servo, if you have a bottle with a long dip tube.

LPG refills should be done by gas weight, but very few refillers do it. All gas bottles vary in tare weight, and this tare weight is stamped on the neck of the bottle.
Elgas, who run Swap-and-Go are probably the fairest of all the household gas suppliers. They fill their bottles by LPG weight and they will accept out-of-date LPG bottles at no extra cost.
Testing and re-certifying an LPG bottle is big dollars, and most people scrap them because it's cheaper to buy a new one.

Servos and other on-site refillers are a real gamble as to what you get, and they care little about whether you get the correct amount of LPG or not, in a refill done on the spot. I've found that businesses doing on-site LPG refills hardly exist today, except in country areas. The costs and dangers of refilling done on-site are high.

Elgas have a superb website with a vast amount of accurate info (FAQ's) on household LPG, and lots of advice. One thing that few people realise is the laws regarding the amount of gas bottles you can carry, and how they must be retained on any vehicle, when being carried. These laws are important and must be obeyed.

http://www.elgas.com.au/swapngo/swapngo-faq
AnswerID: 522184

Follow Up By: Member - Bruce and Di T (SA) - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 14:29

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 14:29
We take our gas bottles to a local hardware store where the bottle is weighed before being gassed up and then weighed after the gas is added. We pay for the difference in weight. We like it because if we want to refill a partly used bottle we pay for what we get. So that I don't name the chain outright it goes by the name of a Bishop's hat. This is in Adelaide.

Di
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 14:36

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 14:36
Incidentally, the 8.5Kg VS 9Kg difference came about because of metrics VS imperial measures.

The Americans still use imperial measure and they are still a huge and dominating world force in using imperial measures - so large numbers of gas bottles are still manufactured in imperial sizing.

The American "propane" bottle is 20lbs. A host of bottle manufacturers still produce huge numbers of 20lb propane bottles for the American market.

These manufacturers merely "metricate" their product to meet metric markets such as Australia.
20lbs converts to a whisker under 9kgs, so the imperial bottle manuifacturers stamp them as 9Kg bottles.
The dedicated metric bottle producers produce 8.5Kg bottles, manufactured to metric standards.

We have a conservative gas industry here that says even though a bottle is marked 9Kgs, it should still only hold 8.5Kgs of gas by weight - and the gas-refillers such as Elgas do exactly that.

If you have an imperial-standard bottle that has been "metricated", then it is possible you could get close to 9Kg of gas in it by weight, in an on-site refill, if it was completely empty and the dip tube was short enough to allow 80% fill. It all depends on the bottle manufacturer.
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Follow Up By: Member - johnat - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 14:45

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 14:45
@Bruce & Di,
That seems to be how it SHOULD be! Unfortunately, should and is are two entirely different things!

I have no problem with the swap system, so long as the cylinder is completely empty when I take it in (which it usually is, I use one until empty and then change the selector valve and replace the empty with a full'n) but on the rare occasion when I need to "top up" in an effort to be sure, to be sure! I would rather pay for what I've got, in exactly the same way as is done with cars.

I know the gas is different, I know there's a labour cost involved in refilling, I KNOW all these things, but still ... if the cost per litre/kilogram of gas is known, then I should only have to pay for the amount delivered, not a "nominal" theoretical maximum volume.
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Follow Up By: NTVRX - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 15:08

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 15:08
Hi Ron N, My very good friend who drove Gas tankers for many years told me the LPG fuel is the same that goes into an auto & into gas bottles for BBQ. He taught me how to drive into servos put auto LPG into a 44 KG bottle then drive home and decant into a 9kg bottle which are then put on caravan. Have been doing this for years and appliances in C/van work well. That's where I have been confused thinking it was the same stuff.
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 15:38

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 15:38
NTVRX - Well, he was wrong on one count, as proven by the Unigas FAQ.

Yes, you most certainly can use Autogas in household applications - until you get a batch of Autogas that is 60% butane and it won't burn properly.

Refilling a 44Kg gas bottle in a servo is illegal - and if the operator spots you doing it on the CCTV, they will shut off the LPG pump and refuse to turn it on again until you disconnect. That's a risk you take.

Changing household bottle plumbing to take Autogas couplers is also illegal, although I know people do it.

Carrying the 44Kg bottle in your vehicle is where you can possibly get into trouble as well. You can carry a 44Kg bottle if it's properly secured, on a traytop or styleside ute with no canopy - but you cannot legally carry more than 30L or 13.5Kgs in an enclosed vehicle such as a van or station wagon.

However, as an old mate once told me, when I warned him what he was doing was illegal - "I've been illegal all my life! - and I ain't goin' to start getting legal, now!!" LOL

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Herbal - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 15:56

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 15:56
This was fun until it all got ridiculous -

quote - He taught me how to drive into servos put auto LPG into a 44 KG bottle then drive home and decant into a 9kg bottle which are then put on caravan. Have been doing this for years - end quote

Years ?? You have been doing this for years ??

I think the best thing YOU can do NTVRX, is start writing your letters and start your petitions...Keep an eye on the mail box, I have heard that strange men in black suits hide behind bushes near mail boxes. They will get your letters and micro film them. Then send copies to the red peril...
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Follow Up By: NTVRX - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 17:40

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 17:40
Thanks for sharing your experiences with us!!! Herbal....hmmmm
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Friday, Nov 29, 2013 at 13:56

Friday, Nov 29, 2013 at 13:56
not sure who told you re cerifieng bottles is more expensive,

id always been told this but was surprised to come accross so many recertified bottles which didnt make sense to me if thats more expensive

anyway I just bought a campervan with out of date bottles so just went to buy new ones

cant get that physical size anymore to fit into the spot they go

so i went to re cerify them...

was less than $30
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Friday, Nov 29, 2013 at 14:14

Friday, Nov 29, 2013 at 14:14
get outmore, you'd better let me know who does that certifying, because I have several forklift bottles that are out of date. I've been quoted $350 to certify a 45L forklift bottle.

I was told they have to be fully dismantled, checked internally and externally, pressure tested, sandblasted and painted, and then all valves and fittings replaced.

If someone is recertifying your gas bottles for $30 - then either the testing for small gas bottles must be a lot less stringent than other sizes and types of bottles, or they're taking shortcuts.
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Reply By: Shaker - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 19:23

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 19:23
I bet your post on the other forum didn't descend into pedantic bickering about bottles or cylinders & if staffed supermarkets are dearer than unstaffed!
It's high time that the moderators did something about the endless thread crapping here.
It's makes it very hard to follow the gist of the original post & disrespects the OP.
End of rant!
AnswerID: 522197

Follow Up By: Gronk - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 20:44

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 20:44
Couldn't agree more......why do people get so far off the original post ???

Gets a bit boring reading all the sh#t that has nothing to do with the subject at hand..
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Follow Up By: Member - johnat - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 21:21

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 21:21
So ...
did anyone alert the admin? Or are you waiting for someone else to do it?
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 21:54

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 21:54
This post has been read by the moderation team and has been moderated due to a breach of The Moderation Complaints Rule .

Forum Moderation Team
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Follow Up By: Member Boroma 604 - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 22:29

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 22:29
Gooday,
Problem is, when they introduced the Swap & Go here were too many people who thought it was good & fast and away it went.

In New Zealand they voted with their feet and would not touch it, so it got dropped. Last I was there a few years ago they had automatic Filler/Scales beside the pump in Fuel Stations and they filled them there and only charged for what the bottle took, if it was half full, you only paid to top it up.
Pity the same did not happen here, now the suppliers are laughing all the way to the bank.
Cheers,
Boroma 604.
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Follow Up By: BarryR1 - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 22:57

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 22:57
Have you noticed that it's always the same bloody people though. Christ is there nothing these blokes (or their mates) haven't done!

They are that obvious I'd reckon the mods would be watching. You are right though Shaker, their antics are detracting from the forum and it's always the same three or four opinionated dipsticks!

They come, they'll go. Hang in there. It is only the internet after all.

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Follow Up By: cookie1 - Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 08:58

Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 08:58
Funny you say that I used to visit this forum all the time and was considering becoming a lifetime member, I then got worn down by those whose principal ideology is to put down or ridicule people.

So now go to another forum - I won't mention it as I don't want some people going there, but the moderators seem to be on the ball a bit better and will close or ban people that are recalcitrant offenders.

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Follow Up By: garrycol - Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 11:54

Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 11:54
Too many silly old farts on this forum.

By old I do not necessarily mean age - more like mental age vs real age.
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Reply By: AlbyNSW - Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 22:14

Wednesday, Nov 27, 2013 at 22:14
The bigger picture is you are paying for a service and the gas cost is only a minor consideration in the total cost of service in the same way as buying bottled water.
Regardless if the bottles are full are empty they still require loading and unloading, freighting, storage, use of precious and expensive retail space etc. The gas inside the bottles is only a small cost component
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Follow Up By: NTVRX - Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 09:34

Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 09:34
Hi AlbyNSW, You have a valid point & don't forget the training of staff cost too, however I do like what's happening in NZ regarding LPG refills. Another point to consider is when we are all travelling & you go into a servo to fill up with fuel for our car they justify the increase in fuel as "Freight" at 20 cents a litre times 53,000 ltrs that's expensive freight.....I am no whinging just making a point. My thanks to all those who have contributed to the OP. Rob
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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 09:59

Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 09:59
Hi Rob
I consider it more an academic or 'pet hate' issue though when you are talking about a $30ish dollar purchase on a reasonably infrequent timeframe, another solution for you would be to carry two bottles ,that way you can use the whole bottle contents before changing over so percieved value for money is achieved 100%

I am not going to winge about fuel prices in remote areas and compare them to city prices in competetive enviroments and high turnover.
As much as it is against my Scottish blood DNA, I dont dwell on the prices of anything when I am on the road as I find it just ruins my holiday

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Gramps - Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 14:54

Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 14:54
"..... I dont dwell on the prices of anything when I am on the road as I find it just ruins my holiday"

Amen.
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FollowupID: 803234

Reply By: K&FT - Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 11:09

Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 11:09
In the rural area where I live the gas tanker fills up the BBQ refilling tanks, the cooking and heating gas tank at the hospital and the autogas tank at the local servo all from the same tanker!

so what are the rules here? Is the gas supplier not doing the right thing by not supplying the two different blends of gas?

a question I have no answer for.

frank
AnswerID: 522238

Follow Up By: cookie1 - Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 13:07

Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 13:07
I can only assume that it is similar to the standard tankers in that they have several seperated tanks so the one tanker carries petrol & diesel, so the gas tanker would carry butane & propane

just a thought and not quoted fact

cheers
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FollowupID: 803216

Follow Up By: Dave(NSW) - Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 15:11

Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 15:11
cookie,
Gas Tankers only have one compartment.
Cheers Dave
GU RULES!!

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Follow Up By: oldtrack123 - Friday, Nov 29, 2013 at 12:55

Friday, Nov 29, 2013 at 12:55
Hi
It seems some have a problem with accepting the FACTS
As others have stated,Auto LPG can be quite a few different mixes
Forget the truck driver ,he would not have a clue on what is put in ,all he will know is where to deliver it!

Gas for LPG appliances has to be to A STANDARD!

Incorrect gas mixture can /will lead to incorrect air to gas ratios for clean burning & possible MORE noxious fumes due to poor combustion.

Yes there are SOME that burn pure Butane & are designed for THAT gas!

It also seems some can not understand that If:
[a]A tanker is going to service an area with a mix of uses then there is no problem loading it with Propane suitable for both vehicles & LPG gas appliances
[b] it is ONLY going to service Vehicle refill stations it will/can load with Auto LPG.

The fact that you may have seen the same tanker at Bunnings, then go to a Vehicle refill station means nothing, except the tanker is loaded with LPG suitable for APPLIANCE & vehicle use


PeterQ
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FollowupID: 803332

Reply By: olcoolone - Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 11:53

Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 11:53
Forget the capacity because the actual gas amount contributes very little to the price, the majority of the price is a service charge.

Most places work on each employee generating minimum $100 per hour so if it takes 15-20 minutes you pay part off.

AnswerID: 522242

Follow Up By: Gramps - Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 14:55

Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 14:55
Nailed it :)
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FollowupID: 803235

Reply By: Echucan Bob - Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 19:32

Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 19:32
I can't say I'd lose much sleep after being "ripped off" 500 gm of gas. Probably use the equivalent in a single overtaking manoeuver.

We tend to use a bit of wood for cooking.

Bob
AnswerID: 522278

Follow Up By: Member - johnat - Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 20:19

Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 20:19
I hope that wood has come from your own supply, and not "harvested" from the roadside! That's just a tiny bit illegal, you know?
Besides, LPG is non-polluting, dontchaknow?
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FollowupID: 803273

Reply By: Hairy (NT) - Saturday, Nov 30, 2013 at 12:53

Saturday, Nov 30, 2013 at 12:53
Gday,
Sorry if someone has already covered this , but I gave up reading the replies when the topic turned into a bitch session.......

But........Find a decent camping shop or someone who weighs your bottles.
My parents owned a camping shop many years ago which used to fill bottles. We would pick the bottle up, give it a shake, and if there was a reasonable amount of gas in it, put it on the scales and weigh it...........if there was a kg of gas in it, deduct the price of a kg of gas from the filling price. Its not rocket science..........just find someone prepared to do it. I actually thought it was law to have a set of scales.
Otherwise weigh your bottle yourself and tell them how much gas you want........if they aren't prepared to believe you or weigh it themselves, go somewhere else.

My local servo used to pick up your bottle, give it a shake and say..........what do you reckon? half full?..........Sometimes you win sometimes they do but if you keep going back it all works out in the wash.......................

Cheers
AnswerID: 522370

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Saturday, Nov 30, 2013 at 14:04

Saturday, Nov 30, 2013 at 14:04
Hairy, the key to all of this is "my parents used to own a camping shop many years ago"

This is the old school way of how we did business, I have no doubt that your parents also knew their products on the shelf backwards and could give first hand experience on a lot of what they sold.
TODAY, we have a supermarket for a camping shop with hairy bum young boys working there part time with minimal or no real world experience or expertise, this shop is owned by a corporate empire that also retails in any other facet in commerce that they can turn a buck in. Then we have a litigious society and safe working practices and environments to comply with.
Look at our service stations, try and get someone to check your oil or put air in your tyres or even change alight bulb, let alone carry out a skilled and potentially dangerous task of filling a gas bottle, same hairy bum kids at the till.
That is why we now buy our gas like we buy our milk, by the bottle. If you don't want to feel like you are getting ripped off don't take a half full bottle in for a swap, pretty simple isn't it?

I like your old school world way better but that is not the world we live in any more and you have to get used to it .

I am surprised that such a petty issue with a dollar value of much less than a box of beer is getting so much traction here, surely there are more important issues on hand to deal with?
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FollowupID: 803395

Follow Up By: Shaker - Saturday, Nov 30, 2013 at 17:18

Saturday, Nov 30, 2013 at 17:18
57 responses (to date) to such a trivial post, it could only happen here!

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FollowupID: 803412

Follow Up By: oldtrack123 - Saturday, Nov 30, 2013 at 17:25

Saturday, Nov 30, 2013 at 17:25
Hi Shaker
So exactly what is your problem
You do know that you do not HAVE TO READ THEM ,don't YOU???!

PeterQ
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FollowupID: 803415

Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Saturday, Nov 30, 2013 at 17:40

Saturday, Nov 30, 2013 at 17:40
.
Hey Shaker,

"Everything has been said before, but since nobody listens we have to keep going back and beginning all over again."
Andre Gide (again) LOL
Cheers
Allan

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FollowupID: 803420

Follow Up By: Shaker - Saturday, Nov 30, 2013 at 19:04

Saturday, Nov 30, 2013 at 19:04
Oldtrack123, I know I don't have to read it all, but why should we have wade through all the thread crapping about bottles or cylinders & the make up of different LP gases?
It is totally disrespecting the OPs thread!
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FollowupID: 803431

Follow Up By: Herbal - Saturday, Nov 30, 2013 at 20:29

Saturday, Nov 30, 2013 at 20:29
I was not going to post to this thread again...But really, come on Shaker...

The OP started with, and I quote -


On another forum I was talking about the LPG Gas Bottle debacle
end quote.

A "debacle"...On another Forum...

The OP has a gripe. I, and I assume by the many replies, many other people, do not see his gripe as he sees it. Maybe he was met with similar response on the "other" forum. Maybe he has come here with a hope of gaining some support that he could not muster on the "other" forum.

Either way, bringing a gripe from another Forum is not considered polite in the Forum world....

A "debacle"....I have not seen or heard anything in the news about this. Maybe it was ONLY a "debacle" on the "other" Forum ??
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FollowupID: 803439

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