Diesel Injectors

Submitted: Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 15:09
ThreadID: 105305 Views:8677 Replies:10 FollowUps:26
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Hi All,
I have injector problems on my V8 ute, can I get recommendations for somewhere in Perth to get them replaced?
I am aware its a common problem and not cheap

Rgds
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Reply By: Member - wicket - Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 15:49

Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 15:49
If they do need to be replaced you should talk to Baileys Diesel about their injector trade-in and replace. They will no doubt have an agent in Perth they have a freecall 1800 Injectors
AnswerID: 522262

Follow Up By: Member - Noldi (WA) - Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 15:51

Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 15:51
Tks wicket, will contact them
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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 21:14

Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 21:14
These guys would definitely be my first phone call.
Have not needed them personally but know of a number of others that are very happy with their product and very good pricing
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Reply By: Dennis Ellery - Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 16:17

Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 16:17
Hi Noldi
I know this doesn’t answer your question.
It’s just my interest on what went wrong.
Were your injectors damaged by dirty fuel, and if so did your alarm system pick up the fault?
AnswerID: 522265

Follow Up By: Member - Noldi (WA) - Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 16:27

Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 16:27
Hi Dennis
to be honest I'm not sure, I have just (8 weeks ago) purchased it as a replacement for my Triton.
I love it, I'm getting 13lt/100k consistently from when I first got it and the power is amazing. (bit like being 18 again). But when cold it blows smoke and rattles. Getting better now the warmer weather's here

I have no complaints as I got it well below market price. Even if I have to spend $ on it.
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Follow Up By: Member - Toyocrusa (NSW) - Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 20:36

Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 20:36
Have a look on the Bailey's link Dennis. Quite interesting to read about what can happen to the injectors to cause the rattle. The computor coding is interesting as well. Bob.
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Follow Up By: Arwon - Friday, Nov 29, 2013 at 19:39

Friday, Nov 29, 2013 at 19:39
Blowing dark diesel smoke when cold, sounds more like glow plugs than injectors..
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Follow Up By: GimmeeIsolation - Saturday, Nov 30, 2013 at 13:17

Saturday, Nov 30, 2013 at 13:17
"Blowing dark diesel smoke when cold, sounds more like glow plugs than injectors.."
Can you please tell us how that works
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Follow Up By: Ross M - Saturday, Nov 30, 2013 at 18:55

Saturday, Nov 30, 2013 at 18:55
When it is too cold to fire in some cylinders IE, glow plug not working, the injected diesel doesn't get burnt but the engine does start and when it does, the rate of compression is increased and so is the heat of compression which then fires the newly injected fuel along with the previous and it has to get rid of it all, and so lots of fuel is burnt, or tries to be burnt in a short time but it is too much for the available air and so it comes out a black smoke.
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Reply By: Member - Rowdy6032 (WA) - Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 16:29

Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 16:29
Hi

Just had the Prado done, as you said not cheap and I only had four.

I had them done at Fremantle Fuel Injection Ph: 9335 4803.

The man to speak with is Michael HULME, Service Manager.

Happy with the job and very helpful.

No affiliation just a happy customer.

Regards
Rowdy
AnswerID: 522267

Follow Up By: Member - Noldi (WA) - Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 16:33

Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 16:33
Thanks Rowdy, good to hear your happy with the service will contact him
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Reply By: pop2jocem - Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 18:04

Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 18:04
A couple in Grt Eastern Hwy Redcliffe.

United Fuel Inj. and A1 Diesels.

Cheers
Pop
AnswerID: 522273

Follow Up By: Member - Noldi (WA) - Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 18:08

Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 18:08
Tks pop, just been down to see one of them, very professional, leading so far just want to make sure their price is competitive, they do their quotes on landscape A4 so they can fit enough zero's in :-)
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Reply By: Echucan Bob - Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 23:01

Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 23:01
This would be a generic vehicle without a brand I am guessing (because the only V8 diesel going round is supposed to be bullet proof, and certainly doesn't have common problems, according to the owners).

Bob
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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 23:32

Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 23:32
Not sure what you are getting at or the point of such a comment but it is a common rail problem that all manufacturers suffer from
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Follow Up By: Member - Noldi (WA) - Friday, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:11

Friday, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:11
Mmm, first Toyo I've owned, love it. Is it a common problem? seems like the answer is yes going by what the diesel (very well known) mob have said. Knowing what I know now would I have bought it 8 weeks ago, ABSOLUTELY
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Reply By: Ross M - Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 23:30

Thursday, Nov 28, 2013 at 23:30
Noldi
Don't automatically jump to the conclusion your injectors are faulty just because others may have had some trouble and you see smoke when cold a notice some noise.

I don't know exactly what your engine uses to pre heat for starting reasons but the fact you mentioned it is better as the weather is getting warmer indicates it isn't the injectors at all as the rise in ambient temp appears to be assisting the combustion process.
.
Also, seeing you are getting economy of 13/100km indicates the injectors may be quite good/normal, ie, performing well, and the engine is doing well, you also said it has plenty of power. Again, if injectors were sus it may not deliver good running/economy or power.

The important thing is to diagnose the problem and not jump to conclusions which are the result of reading reports of other owners issues.
What affects one engine, ie, a fault, doesn't necessarily mean yours has it too purely because it is the same design.

Cheers
Ross M.
AnswerID: 522291

Follow Up By: Member - Noldi (WA) - Friday, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:15

Friday, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:15
Thanks Ross, sadly had diagnostics run yesterday and seems all but 3 injectors are out of spec, funny he only seemed concerned about 2 which were way out. talking to others (i.e. mining industry) seems like it common. I think I would like to get it fixed then I should be right for the next 5 years.
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Follow Up By: Ross M - Saturday, Nov 30, 2013 at 19:04

Saturday, Nov 30, 2013 at 19:04
Noldi
If they are out of spec, then why are you getting better economy than almost everyone else who owns the same model cruiser???

Perhaps they all run out of spec and no one ever check a new set.
I would like to know more and also talk to someone who will be willing to trial settings, ie control code numbers alteration so the ECU can control them more closely, and not just someone who says, You need a new set.
It is all too easy to throw away working injectors.

if you get new one fitted, make sure they test them the same as for used injectors so you know where you are starting from as some of them may go OUT of spec shortly after being fitted.
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Reply By: Wayne's 60 - Friday, Nov 29, 2013 at 02:27

Friday, Nov 29, 2013 at 02:27
Hi Ian,

As others have indicated, you need to have a good workshop diagnose the (an) underlying fault............ rather than just ripping the injectors out and replacing them.

Try Armadale 4WD service Centre, 9497 3066.

Well worth the cost of a call.

Just a happy customer.

BTW, how many KMs on these injectors?
When were valve clearances checked and reset?
Does the vehicle have Glo plugs?
If so, when were they replaced.

A recent conversation with my mechanic indicates that,

Injectors are to be replaced every 100.000km
and
valve clearances need to be checked and reset every 40.000kms.

Hope this helps a little.

Cheers,
Wayne & Sally.
AnswerID: 522292

Follow Up By: Member - Noldi (WA) - Friday, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:21

Friday, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:21
Thanks Wayne, will give them a ring. 165k ex mine vehicle (company I work for) Yes glo plugs (at least has the light on the dash) Valve clearance don't know, not sure when glo plugs were replaced if ever.
Diesel mob said generally 150 to 250k for the injectors. Discussed with the Treasury last night and she agreed that its well worth getting fixed
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Follow Up By: TerraFirma - Friday, Nov 29, 2013 at 12:26

Friday, Nov 29, 2013 at 12:26
I ditto Wayne's comments completely. The injectors need to be diagnosed by a professional.
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Saturday, Nov 30, 2013 at 00:31

Saturday, Nov 30, 2013 at 00:31
"A recent conversation with my mechanic indicates that,
Injectors are to be replaced every 100.000km
and valve clearances need to be checked and reset every 40.000kms."

You need a new mechanic. The valve clearances are self adjusting on the 1VD-FTV V8.
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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Saturday, Nov 30, 2013 at 13:40

Saturday, Nov 30, 2013 at 13:40
Phil G I recall apost from Baileys that I am pretty sure they said 140K is the expected lifespan.
I have mates with CRD D4D motors with over double that on original injectors and then others that have not made it to 100K.
So probably the way to go is to have them checked at regular periods and only change them when they are stuffed . They are too expensive to change if it is not warranted.
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Saturday, Nov 30, 2013 at 16:20

Saturday, Nov 30, 2013 at 16:20
Gday Alby,
I was just correcting the posts above regarding valve clearances and avoiding the embarrassment of Ian walking in and asking the dealer to adjust his non-adjustable valve clearances!!
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Reply By: olcoolone - Friday, Nov 29, 2013 at 07:47

Friday, Nov 29, 2013 at 07:47
Before doing anything it would pay to get Toyota to check them out first as all may be needed is a firmware update.

The injectors can be checked by a scan tool to determine if they are out of range and if they are which ones.

The injector knock your talking about may be nothing to worry about as all CRD engined vehicle and especially the Toyota's do it...... so it may be normal.

We have four D4D engined vehicles and they all sound like a tin of bolts and nuts at various times.
AnswerID: 522294

Follow Up By: Member - Noldi (WA) - Friday, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:27

Friday, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:27
Tks Olcool, had the diag done yesterday 5 out of the 8 were OOR, he also said I have the choice of doing nothing (did not indicate it was critical in any way or shape) I contacted Baileys, it is apparently a 1VD-FTV engine and it works out about 4k for the injectors, then I need to get them installed.
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Friday, Nov 29, 2013 at 14:56

Friday, Nov 29, 2013 at 14:56
Fitting them is no big deal but you need to recode the ECU for compensation for each injector.

You don't know how far out they were?
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Follow Up By: Member - Noldi (WA) - Friday, Nov 29, 2013 at 15:06

Friday, Nov 29, 2013 at 15:06
Can't remember the numbers really
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Reply By: TerraFirma - Friday, Nov 29, 2013 at 12:25

Friday, Nov 29, 2013 at 12:25
Noldi, It pays to do some research and get the excact model of your injectors either via your Vin number or by pulling one out. The price has dropped substantially however most of the diesel mechanics may not be passing on the savings. Once you get the model of your injector you can shop around on price, there are quite a few places selling injectors for a living now.
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Follow Up By: Member - Noldi (WA) - Friday, Nov 29, 2013 at 13:02

Friday, Nov 29, 2013 at 13:02
Hi Terra, I have the VIN no. I sent it to Baileys they came back with a price but did not mention the model number of the injector.
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Follow Up By: TerraFirma - Friday, Nov 29, 2013 at 13:20

Friday, Nov 29, 2013 at 13:20
I organised a mates Navara recently , 4 new injectors , the diesel mechanic (Well Known in Bayswater, Victoria) quoted $3300 supply and re-fit or $500 to just do the re-fit. You will need your exact injector model and brand such as Denso 90250_____ etc
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Reply By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Saturday, Nov 30, 2013 at 15:45

Saturday, Nov 30, 2013 at 15:45
Noldi,

Toyota's D4D common rail technology began with the 2007 120 Series Prado. There is heaps of info about these injectors, the system behaviour and the modes of failure in the Prado owners forum. Scroll down to 120 Series Discussion Only, and then further to Engine - Diesel (120 Series). The topic about the "death rattle" is worth trolling through. There is another topic that discusses the various injector seals that could also be relevant to your engine.

There is probably info specific to the 200 Series V8 on LCOOL and other Toyota forums.

Cheers

Frank

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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Saturday, Nov 30, 2013 at 16:29

Saturday, Nov 30, 2013 at 16:29
Gday Frank,
The common rail 1KD-FTV motor appeared in 2000 in overseas delivered 90series Prados. It was just pretty slow to come to Australia because of too much sulphur in our diesel, so we were stuck with the 1Kz-te. It first appeared in the Aussie delivered Hilux in 2005.
Cheers
Phil
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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Saturday, Nov 30, 2013 at 17:21

Saturday, Nov 30, 2013 at 17:21
I didn't know that Phil.

In the early iterations of the D4D Prado in Aust, apparently 7 years after the engine first appearing OS, there were a significant number of injector failures, some within the warranty period, some not.

If you were lucky you had a good dealer or mechanic and the problem would be picked up before any engine damage occurred. If you were luckier it would be within warranty. If you were luckier again your dealer knew enough to accept a warranty claim and document it so that Toyota would pay.

If you weren't so lucky (out of warranty or dealer dodging or ignorant of the issue) then you were out of pocket by about $2500 to $7000, depending if the repair was done outside or within the Toyota network.

I was one of the lucky ones, I had a switched on dealer who identified the problem before I did and fixed it under warranty during a scheduled service. Many were not so fortunate.

There is a second issue with these injectors. The original seals between injector and head were copper washers. Again, there were and continue to be a significant number of seal failures. These usually occur outside the warranty period. The failure permits blow-by of combustion gases into the rocker area, causing carbonised oil granules to form. These wash down to the sump and are screened out by the sump oil pick-up, which eventually gets blocked enough to starve the engine of oil. Usually #3 piston seizes first. Happy days.

There were recalls or dealer service directives in Europe and NZ over both these issues, but not here in Oz. You have to wonder why.

Cheers

Frank
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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Saturday, Nov 30, 2013 at 18:04

Saturday, Nov 30, 2013 at 18:04
I should have said in the above Follow-up that Toyota have redesigned both the injectors and, later, the sealing washers, which kind of acknowledges the original deficiencies.

It's possible these issues could carry through to the V8 (same technology and market), so IMO Noldi should follow them up.

Cheers

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