2010 colorado flywheel/clutch

Submitted: Wednesday, Dec 04, 2013 at 22:08
ThreadID: 105372 Views:8981 Replies:5 FollowUps:12
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Hi everyone, just wondering if anyone knows if the 3.0ltr CRD have a dual mass flywheel.
Mine had the clutch slave cylinder leak into the bell housing and all through the clutch giving me a horrendous clutch shudder and then lost the clutch pedal altogether. Its only done 50k .Holden said they would replace the slave, clutch and flywheel. But when the car was delayed by a day and a half because they said the machine shop grinder had issues I assumed holden didn't want to pay for a new flywheel.now I have a clutch shudder which was definitely not there before the slave failed and are wondering if it has a dual mass flywheel which I don't think are meant to be machined and might have been the cause of the delay. Ive googled but cant find a definite yes or no. If anyone has any info on whether this could be a plausible reason for the shudder could you please share.
PS also has a rattle in the gearbox when idling along in gear with no load, Sounds horrible, its fine under load but when in car parks/drive thrus etc its very rattly.it is in all gears as Ive tested it in low range
Thanks
Ed
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Reply By: Ross M - Wednesday, Dec 04, 2013 at 22:58

Wednesday, Dec 04, 2013 at 22:58
edwin
A 2010 does have a dual mass flywheel.
If there was a grinder involved then they wouldn't have replaced the flywheel,and also may have resurfaced the pressure plate depending on how it is constructed.

If you have a shudder they may also have reused the clutch plate too if it was hardly worn, but may be contaminated with crap/oil etc. The refitting of the clutch may have caused some damage to the plate, if new or preloved, because of poor fitting.
Often it is semi skilled staff who do the fitting. They don't work on semi's though.

If the dual mass flywheel isn't absorbing torsional vibration/pulses then you will hear the tooth chatter in the gearbox at slow speed on light load. Unfortunately, it doesn't do that well and Dmax and Colorado both make the noise.
The gearbox oil is relatively thin ie 15w40 engine oil and sometimes even thinner depending on who and if the gearbox oil has ever been changed.
From the factory it is fairly thin oil as mentioned and it is possible some enterprising sod has actually changed the GB oil and put in thinner than is recommended. IMO you can't trust them even though they might be the dealer. Thinner will chatter far more than the correct oil grade.

Some owners have used a slightly thicker grade of oil to help with the chatter but too thick will cause slow synchro action on gear changes.

They should have changed all the affected items as they first stated they would do.
Best to ask why it wasn't.
The item possibly isn't designed to be machined, haven't heard of repairers doing that as they are usually replaced.

If the repair of the flywheel has also damaged the integrity of the dual mass unit then it will make a fair bit of rattle and may also be not even in it's frictional characteristics with the friction plate, hence a shudder on take off.

It should all be perfect ( apart from some gear chatter sometimes), sounds like you have been short changed or they did the most economical fix they could.
AnswerID: 522574

Follow Up By: edwin - Thursday, Dec 05, 2013 at 06:40

Thursday, Dec 05, 2013 at 06:40
Thanks for the info Ross.im just trying to get as much ammo as possible before I head in as im expecting a fight over this one.
The specs state the gearbox and engine oil are the same, 5w/30 which I changed myself so I know it's definitely not thinner than that.
Holden replaced the gearbox at 20k due to the rattle but it really didn't make a difference, now it is getting worse so think it might have been the flywheel rattling alll along. Any ideas on whether they are rubber dampeners or metal springs. Not sure if the brake fluid would have done any damage.
Thanks
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FollowupID: 803658

Follow Up By: Ross M - Thursday, Dec 05, 2013 at 07:59

Thursday, Dec 05, 2013 at 07:59
There are the two rattle issues there, gear chatter as a result of torsional vibration pulses and also the DMF can rattle too sometime.
Chatter is while driving but DMF rattle is usually at idle with clutch out.
That's my experience.

To me the 5W 30 is too thin and hasn't the capacity/thickness to act as a cushion and stop GB tooth chatter but a balance of viscosity and synchro action has to be considered.

Since the bell housing has a drain hole as most do, any clutch fluid would have run down and out and not got anywhere near the friction surfaces.
However, the fact the plate, no matter if old one or new, can be easily held/gripped by a monkey with greasy mitts or the "reconditioning" can be suspect.

Because of DMF the plate may have less cushioning than a normal rubber of compression spring one. I haven't seen one so can;t say exactly what it is.
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FollowupID: 803659

Follow Up By: edwin - Thursday, Dec 05, 2013 at 08:27

Thursday, Dec 05, 2013 at 08:27
These boxes have fully sealed bell housings with 2 inspection plates with rubber gasket/seals . There was no fluid dripping when the clutch pedal went but when I found no fluid in the resovoir I removed the lower inspection plate and out it all came .I took some pics of the pressure plate coated in fliud In case holden tried to dupe me but they said the plate was covered and brake fluid had been thrown everywhere and was very messy.They too told me they took photos , maybe part of there warranty claim process.
I'll try and get in today and see what they say . I'll let you know what happens.
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FollowupID: 803660

Follow Up By: Ross M - Thursday, Dec 05, 2013 at 12:47

Thursday, Dec 05, 2013 at 12:47
Hmm. I thought it would drain out somewhere. Must be a good fit.
There must have been a significant amount of fluid loss to fling it around.

Good luck and don't back down or believe the 3 B's they tell you.
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FollowupID: 803668

Follow Up By: Ron N - Thursday, Dec 05, 2013 at 22:18

Thursday, Dec 05, 2013 at 22:18
Edwin - Unfortunately, you have erred in presuming that the engine oil and transmission (gear) oil are the one and the same.
A 5W-30 transmission (gear) oil is a heavier viscosity to a 5W-30 engine oil.
Gear oil numbers do not operate on the same viscosity basis as engine oil numbers.
A 5W-30 synthetic gear oil (the recommended oil for your vehicle) is comparable in viscosity to a 75 to 85 weight, regular gear oil.

Castrol recommend their Syntrans 75W-85 as the oil for the Colorado transmission. This oil is the equivalent to the recommended Isuzu 5W-30 transmission (gear) oil.

http://productsforyou.castrol.com.au/product/Castrol-Syntrans-75W-85/19

Gear oils not only have a different viscosity measurement to engine oils - they have different additives to engine oil, to ensure smooth gear shifting (particularly when cold), and to reduce gear noise and slap.

If you have used 5W-30 engine oil in your transmission, this will explain the excessive transmission noise.

Cheers, Ron.
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FollowupID: 803734

Reply By: Member - Allan L2 - Thursday, Dec 05, 2013 at 10:32

Thursday, Dec 05, 2013 at 10:32
Hi Edwin,
I also have a RC 3.0Ltr CRD Colorado with a clutch shudder. I have had no slave cylinder problem. My local GM dealer is going to replace the clutch plate for an updated plate under warranty. He claims that the plate has been modified to assist with the transmission noise. I don't want to confuse the issue but he also states that the RC Colorado Does Not have a dual Mass clutch.
Cheers.
AnswerID: 522582

Reply By: John and Regina M - Thursday, Dec 05, 2013 at 10:53

Thursday, Dec 05, 2013 at 10:53
Allan L2
I think you just confused the issue.

Sounds like a few responses with good intentions but no experience.

If you still have problems take it back to them. Don't start a slagging match based on well intentioned but uninformed responses on here.

Remember, there are many experts on forums. Some even know what they're talking about. Most don't.
AnswerID: 522584

Follow Up By: Member - Allan L2 - Thursday, Dec 05, 2013 at 11:45

Thursday, Dec 05, 2013 at 11:45
John & Val
Edwin asked a question & I simply replied with the information given to me by my local Holden dealer. I was hoping this may have been some help.
I don't have a problem as the dealer is about to replace the parts under warranty.
I am also not trying to start a slagging match.
Cheers.
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FollowupID: 803663

Reply By: John and Regina M - Thursday, Dec 05, 2013 at 11:28

Thursday, Dec 05, 2013 at 11:28
And of course you should never listen to advice from one who refers to a mechanic as a monkey. That level of disrespect shows they're the tool.

AnswerID: 522586

Follow Up By: Member - Allan L2 - Thursday, Dec 05, 2013 at 11:51

Thursday, Dec 05, 2013 at 11:51
Sorry, my above follow up should have been addressed to John & Regina.
Allan
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FollowupID: 803664

Follow Up By: Ross M - Thursday, Dec 05, 2013 at 13:04

Thursday, Dec 05, 2013 at 13:04
John & Regina
Have you ever seen the result of some of the poor workmanship with vehicle repairs? Are you aware that all too often (not always of course) it is unskilled and/or uncaring people who are doing the work?
People who do not know how it all works and haven't got the capacity to understand it.
Who are known to:
Fit things incorrectly, let the gearbox hang on the clutch plate centre and therefore twisting it's drive spline hub so it isn't quite in the same spinning axis of the GB shaft?

Such people are everywhere in the motor trade and are often the ones who repair your steering, brakes and suspension. Got you worried now.
Having taught trade automotive apprentices, you would be shocked at their inability to understand the mechanical concepts and scientific principles involved. This applies to a high percentage of mechanics as they are herded into the career but aren't really suited to the job.

Some are very suited and smart, perceptive people who do understand and do good/excellent work, unfortunately in the minority and hard to find.
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FollowupID: 803670

Follow Up By: John and Regina M - Thursday, Dec 05, 2013 at 14:28

Thursday, Dec 05, 2013 at 14:28
Yep.
Been there and done it.
38 years as an autoeleccy.

But calling someone names, including a class of technicians shows more about the caller than the called.

So you've taught. Whoopy do. All are mentors.
Shame on you
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FollowupID: 803673

Follow Up By: Ross M - Thursday, Dec 05, 2013 at 14:48

Thursday, Dec 05, 2013 at 14:48
John & Regina
I think you are missing the point, in that the customers are regarded as Wood Ducks and referred to and treated as such by those in the trade.

All too often it seems people readily defend the people who are being paid to do a job, but it ends up not successful or sub standard.

It does appears the OP has been/is being "done over" if the initial report is correct, no reason why it isn't.
If folk don't lie down and take it or defend the perpetrators, then the frequency of such issues will be greatly reduced and a reasonable degree of decency towards customers will be had.
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FollowupID: 803674

Follow Up By: Ron N - Thursday, Dec 05, 2013 at 21:38

Thursday, Dec 05, 2013 at 21:38
The dealerships aren't nicknamed "stealerships" for nothing.

In my long experience with both personally-employed mechanics, and dealership mechanics, about 1 in 5 mechanics can be trusted to work alone and produce a desirable level of workmanship and results.

Another 2 out of 5 need constant supervision to produce a satisfactory level of workmanship.

The remaining 2 out of 5 need to go work in the occupation more suited to their skill levels - where a blue apron is worn, and they chop meat up.

I've seen more wars going on between unhappy customers and service managers, than I've seen on TV.
Most often, service managers will never admit to any fault on their mechanics behalf - and they're always indulging in ar$e-covering to save the workshop any losses or re-do costs.
You generally have to fight for what is rightfully yours, when it comes to suspect and dodgy repair work - of which there is plenty.
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FollowupID: 803728

Reply By: Ron N - Thursday, Dec 05, 2013 at 22:50

Thursday, Dec 05, 2013 at 22:50
Edwin - These RC Colorado are not a dual-mass flywheel, they are just a normal flywheel with a regular design clutch.

The V6 petrol Colorados are the models fitted with a DMF.

These clutches are weak, and Holden know they are weak, but they are refusing to repair them if they can avoid it - because it's easy to blame the owner for abusing the clutch when it fails.

If I bought a new 4WD and the clutch failed at 50,000kms, I'd be ripping the service managers throat out and suing Holdens for a non-performing product.

I'd suggest you cut your losses, go to a proper clutch and brake place, that comes with good recommendations - and fit an Exedy heavy duty clutch.

They aren't cheap, but this is the clutch the diesel Colorados should have had, ex-factory.

Lots of Colorado owners horror clutch stories here -

http://www.4wdaction.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=120&t=131517

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?184770-Colarado-warranty (this forum is offline for a while for maintenance)

Dual Mass flywheel differences - http://www.clutch-kits-australia.com/dual-mass-flywheel.html

Exedy Clutch finder - http://www.exedy.com.au/clutch-finder

Cheers - Ron.
AnswerID: 522633

Follow Up By: Ron N - Thursday, Dec 05, 2013 at 22:52

Thursday, Dec 05, 2013 at 22:52
Sorry, the DMF description link didn't work in the above post - here's the working link ..

Dual Mass Flywheel description
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FollowupID: 803739

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