landcruiser 80 series rear HD springs or poly airbags?
Submitted: Wednesday, Dec 11, 2013 at 11:17
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maiolica
Hi there! :)
I'm just facing the issue that the back of my Landcruiser started to sag after installing rooftop tent , storage system whit fridge, cargo barrier , tool box and half of the main tank full . Since I'm going to put also a 100 lt
water tank in stainless steel and I have also a long range fuel tank of 120 lt .. I think I have to do something before I'll start to drive with the nose up! lol
At the moment there are 2" lift King Spring . The car without loads is a little bit higher at the back and when I fill both fuel tanks (215), the front and the back are even. So the rear springs should be ok .. It's a matter of the stuff I'm installing on the car that may reach 450-500 kg in total
I thought about replacing
the springs with King Springs KTRR-70 or installing Poly/Silverstone airbags.
the springs are $173 the airbags $270
what's better ? any suggestion?
thanks
Simon
Reply By: maiolica - Wednesday, Dec 11, 2013 at 11:36
Wednesday, Dec 11, 2013 at 11:36
sorry Firestone airbags :)
AnswerID:
522884
Reply By: Aussi Traveller - Wednesday, Dec 11, 2013 at 11:37
Wednesday, Dec 11, 2013 at 11:37
Hi Maiolica.
With all that gear going in the back I would do both, but remember the air bags are not load bearing or to be used to lift the car, they are designed to help
the springs.
Below is taken from their web site FAQ
POLYAIR SPRING
Some answers to the most
frequently asked questions by our customers.
Q. Will they raise my vehicle?
A. Original equipment springs tend to sag from wear or from overloading. Each Polyair kit is designed to level the vehicle to the original designed height with up to 500kg of load. Some vehicles can be raised an additional 25mm when inflated with maximum air pressure and carrying minimum load.
Hope that helps Phil.
AnswerID:
522885
Follow Up By: maiolica - Wednesday, Dec 11, 2013 at 12:20
Wednesday, Dec 11, 2013 at 12:20
Hi Phil , thanks for the reply.
I don't want to lift the car with the bags . I'd like the back and front even so just to offset the sagging. From the FAQ seems they are ok for what I want to do. I read somewhere that the HD spring are very though when the car is without loads and it can be a problem on wet bitumen roads?
I saw that the bags are coming also in a kit for 2" lift springs.
FollowupID:
804082
Reply By: Batt's - Wednesday, Dec 11, 2013 at 12:17
Wednesday, Dec 11, 2013 at 12:17
I would get springs to suit your everyday driving set up which should be calculated with both fuel tanks full they should still be able to handle some extra weight above your daily driving load the rear of the vehicle then will not have to sit higher in the back which is a poor way to set it up. And put some poly air bags in for when your fully loaded with all the extra's for a trip they will help maintain the correct ride level then when you have set up
camp you can let the air bags down and go 4WDriving. You can go to ARB ,TJM etc to get some advice on what rating
the springs should be, then get them else where if you want. I wouldn't rely on air bags to permanently support a loaded vehicle just to help with the extra's when required.
Check your gvm as
well to make sure you don't exceed it because it sounds like you're carrying a lot of gear you don't want to over stress things and have something break.
AnswerID:
522886
Follow Up By: Batt's - Wednesday, Dec 11, 2013 at 12:39
Wednesday, Dec 11, 2013 at 12:39
If you're looking at firestone coil spring helper air bags I expect they have improved in the last 8yrs because I had nothing but trouble with weak valves letting go on them on both occasions I didn't even get 1000 km out of either the 1st set or the replacement set. Yes I admit I still have a gripe about them especially when I had to pay to have them removed at my cost to get my money back for warranty. My current vehicle has polyair bags which were installed in 2006 and haven't blown yet I would highly recommend getting the right bag in the first place.
FollowupID:
804083
Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Wednesday, Dec 11, 2013 at 13:06
Wednesday, Dec 11, 2013 at 13:06
I had a similar experience with the Firestone coil spring helper bags (sold as Coil-Rite, I think)
I believe they have fixed the issue, but too late for me as I, too, have installed Polyairs.
FollowupID:
804087
Reply By: maiolica - Wednesday, Dec 11, 2013 at 12:40
Wednesday, Dec 11, 2013 at 12:40
Thanks Batt.
today I'll go to a
suspensionshop close to my pace and ask some suggestion .
I'll
check the GVM .. hopefully I won't exceed it
I'm putting some photo of my car setup on the
forum
thanks
Simon
AnswerID:
522887
Reply By: Member - Jack - Wednesday, Dec 11, 2013 at 12:53
Wednesday, Dec 11, 2013 at 12:53
I have fitted both to my 1991 Landcruiser to assist its load carrying capability. Works fine for me. I had King springs which gave me a 50mm lift, and the Firestone airbags work a treat. They have been in for just over 10 years now; and no dramas with them, including a trip around Oz.
Jack
AnswerID:
522888
Reply By: Ron N - Wednesday, Dec 11, 2013 at 14:28
Wednesday, Dec 11, 2013 at 14:28
Maiolica - I would go for the HD springs. Springs give a more progressive response, they are 100% reliable as compared to airbags (airbags do fail, and they do leak), and
the springs are cheaper.
Cheers, Ron.
AnswerID:
522891
Follow Up By: Batt's - Wednesday, Dec 11, 2013 at 19:39
Wednesday, Dec 11, 2013 at 19:39
Springs fail as
well not just air bags there not 100% reliable
FollowupID:
804110
Reply By: Member - batsy - Wednesday, Dec 11, 2013 at 17:30
Wednesday, Dec 11, 2013 at 17:30
Maiolica, I have Kin Springs in my 80 series, standard in the front & KTPR95 (progressive rate) in the back with Polyair's. The KTPR95 have a progressive linear rate of 220lbs for the first 2/3 coils then it goes to 310lbs for the rest, in other words the main rate of the spring is 310 lbs, heavy duty rate. This is the most suitable to me for all round use as it is still reasonably soft unloaded but holds up
well with a fair load. If towing with a heavy drawbar load, 220kgs, we may lift the Polyair's from 3/4lbs to 8/10lbs. With standard height front springs & the progressive rate in the rear the rear is slightly raised, with a load it sits almost level, still slightly raised. We have done over 150,000km with this set up. Hope this helps.
Cheers
Batsy
AnswerID:
522902
Reply By: maiolica - Thursday, Dec 12, 2013 at 18:00
Thursday, Dec 12, 2013 at 18:00
Hi everyone thanks for the suggestion.
today I've been at
Suspension City
shop in
Melbourne and I called one in Thomastown (Centreline
Suspension). I decided to go for the HD springs solution. Anyway I can't install the airbags without removing
the springs because I have extended rubber cones in
the springs
The cost per springs pair (King Springs) including installation is $300/$350.
Does it sound ok for you?
Do you know some
suspension shop in
Melbourne area that may be cheaper?
thanks
Simon
AnswerID:
522953
Reply By: Member - Andrew & Jen - Thursday, Dec 12, 2013 at 20:11
Thursday, Dec 12, 2013 at 20:11
Hullo Maiolica
The quoted kerb weight of my Series 80 TD is 2270 kg and the GVM is 2960 kg. I have an aluminium bulbar, a Warn winch, a 2 drawer setup in the back, a 40 L SS
water tank underneath, a 65 L plastic
water tank in the back and a Rhino roof rack and basket. With all this additional gear and the rear seats taken out, the tare weight is around 2720 kg with the fridge on board. That is, I have 240 kg spare for 2 adults, clothes and food to still be within the legal limit! With the CT behind, the GVM was exceeded.
I would strongly suggest you
check your tare weight. State authorities have recently agreed to start cracking down on over mass 4WDs, with or without CTs/caravans. If you have an accident while exceeding the GVM and/or GCM, your insurance is null and void, and if you are unfortunate enough to be involved in a serious injury / fatality accident, you could
well find yourself facing criminal charges.
However, all is not lost. If your Series 80 was manufactured in mid 1995 or later, with the upgraded
suspension you should be able to increase your GVM to 3350 kgs and GCM to 6460 kg.
Cheers
Andrew
AnswerID:
522957
Reply By: maiolica - Sunday, Dec 15, 2013 at 18:54
Sunday, Dec 15, 2013 at 18:54
Hi Andrew thanks for the reply.
I did a list of the items I have on the car with an estimated weight. I'm not planning to tow. At the bottom the total weight with also fuel people water and food/drinks.
How you can see even removing the tent and the
water tank I'm going to exceed the limit (based on what you posted above) and just with 2 people.
Exceed 50 or 250 I don t think makes any difference for the cops.
I'm very surprised because I saw a lot of 4wd with a set up similar to
mine.. and some one also towing.... so basically all of them are illegal!
Mine is a 92 Landcruiser so no upgrade ..... I can just hope that if one day I will have a car crash, fuel and water tanks will be empty :) just joking :)
Item Weight (Kg)
rooftop tent 50
alloy rooftop rack 25
spot lights 10
bull bar 70
winch 40
gas bottle (2 kg) 5
storage system 30
fridge 34
tool box 20
spare wheel arm 20
high jack lift 20
long range tank 30
water tank s/steel 30
stove 5
2 tables 10
tow bar 25
awning 20
compressor 7
recovery kit 7
catering and stoves 7
second battery 30
Partial total 495
215 fuel 145 fuel (OME capacity) Without tent &
water tank
water 100 50 0
fuel (1 Lt is 0,84 kg) 181 122 122
food+ beer 50 50 50
2 person (80 + 65) 145 145 145
Total 971 862 732
Thanks
Simon
AnswerID:
523119
Reply By: maiolica - Sunday, Dec 15, 2013 at 18:55
Sunday, Dec 15, 2013 at 18:55
sorry the weights table didn't come out as I wrote it.. and now it looks very messy! :(
AnswerID:
523120
Follow Up By: Member - Andrew & Jen - Sunday, Dec 15, 2013 at 19:39
Sunday, Dec 15, 2013 at 19:39
Hullo maiolica
Just take my car as a guide, not exact. In fact, I just looked up my records and the tare was 2690 kg with the aux tank full but the main empty, as was everything else - sorry about that :-( BTW,
mine is a GXL with the alloy bull bar and rims, which are much lighter than the genuine Toyota steel ones.
And you are right, there are heaps of over-mass 4WDs out there. We saw a Qld Series 80 at
Tibooburra last year and I reckon it would have gone 4 tonnes - all the extras, roof rack loaded to the hilt (swags, fuel, water, gas), all the gear including a large fridge in the back stacked up to the roof and 4 big blokes!
As one of the NP staff there said to us, when they have an accident - and quite a few do, usually a roll-over - after they get the injured/dead taken care of, the police just put the vehicle on a tilt tray and take it straight to the nearest weigh
bridge.
Cheers
Andrew
FollowupID:
804420