Registration dilema regarding the number of seats

From the Vicroads website (but you should check if QLD is the same):
Removing seats
The requirements for removing seats will vary depending on:
the original number of seating positions
the new number of seating positions
which seats are removed
when the vehicle was manufactured

An Approval Certificate is not required if:
the number of original seating positions was less than 10
10 or more seating positions have been reduced to 2 - 3 seats in the front row only
10 or more seating positions have been reduced to 4 - 9 seats in a vehicle manufactured before 1970
more than 12 seating positions have been reduced to 10-12 seats in a vehicle manufactured before 1986
the number of seating positions does not reduce to below 13

If the modification is not listed above an Approval Certificate is required.

In addition, the removal needs to be not permanent - defined as, leave the seatbelts fitted, even though the seats are not there!!!

Hi Mapesy,

I went through this at rego time here in NSW (still being run by the Rum Corps despite the change of Govt.)

My Prado has 8 seat capacity (2 + 3 + 3) with removable third row. I have removed the third row semi-permanently and done what we all do, installed a drawer unit.

At rego time (annual inspection in NSW) it was "failed" because the inspector could not test the seat belts in the third row.

When touring I also remove the second row seats and install a false floor with tie-downs for all our gear. Presumably if I have to re-register when set up in touring mode the problem will be compounded.

And what if rego falls due when on the other side of the country - who does the inspection then?

There are ways around this, of course (;-)), but what an exercise in bureaucratic bull#$%

Should have bought a ute, but needs were different back then.

Cheers

Met this problem with our 11 seat Troopy some years ago. Hadn't had 11 seats for many years. It is now registered as a 3 seat "panel van". Required (in NSW) an engineers certificate to achieve this. He did a thorough job: (counted "1,2,3") and then checked for any other problems - found one too - the leading zero in the vehicle serial number wasn't on the rego papers! This is quite a while ago, and I think it then cost only a couple of hundred dollars. I always carry a copy of the rego papers now showing the "panel van" status - the compliance plate still shows11 seats!

Who said the law is an ass?

Cheers

John

Bought my 05 100 series at the SA Govt. auctions - the 3rd row seats had been removed (presumably at the request of the first user; PIRSA). The compliance plate was updated to reflect this changed seating status - so I guess that in SA, this is the law too. I would have taken them out anyway, but it hurts not to have them in storage, for the time of vehicle resale.

Hey Mapesy
Page two explains it, seems if they were designed to be removed you are OK unless it is permanent and changes the vehicle category ie. taking the seats out of a coaster bus changes it into a van. The compliance plate is the max. number of passengers with all tempory and permanent seats in place
Kev


L 5.0 Permanent and temporary removal of seats from light motor vehicles (PDF, 7 KB)
Vehicle Standards Instructions
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safety/Vehicle%20standards%20and%20modifications/Vehicle%20standards/Vehicle%20standards%20instructions/VSIL50Permanentandtemporaryremovalofseatsfromlightmotorvehicles.pdf - 22 Jun 2010

Your are allowed to remove seats as long as they can be refitted with basic hand tools and don't form part of a stress structure, as for the wording temporary ...... How long is temporary.

When removing seats associated seat belts have to be removed at the same time.

The law was originally written to stop people defrauding the state and federal governments from income..... Commercial vehicles are charged at a higher rate meaning if you had a Targo and you wanted to use it for carting gear around for a business that should be done with a commercial vehicle like a Hiace van and in the mean time getting cheaper rego and insurance then you breaking the law.

Passenger based vehicle are cheaper to operate.

The interpretation of the law is what you have a discrepancy with, not the law it self.

This is clearly set out on the relative state government we'd sites relating to seat removal.

Even officials who should know better can get it wrong.

If ever in doubt of what a law is about, have a look at why the law was written in the first place....... This is what legal professionals and judges do and why some breaches get thrown out.

FYI as we'll, not state rego bodies offer cheaper rego and insurance if you can prove a commercial vehicle is used for non commercial use, here in SA fitting draws to the rear of a 4x4 ute is all that is needed as it is classed as a recreational vehicle....... And if you try a cheat and use it for commercial use expect big fines.

You also need to inform your insurance company as to any seat changes - because if you don't - and the vehicle is involved in an accident, this then gives them an "out" to avoid paying out. You must advise your insurance company as to any modifications done to your vehicle, if they vary from what you wrote on your application form. Even changing the tyre size, speed or load rating will be enough for an insurance company to back out of a payout.

My middle nephew is in the mining contracting business. He buys his work vehicles fully fitted with bull bars, spotlights, flashing yellow lights, towbars, worklights, and wide wheels.
He had a near-new Landcruiser written off, and his insurance company only wanted to supply him with a brand-new standard-fitment, bare-bones vehicle (because the policy provided a new replacement vehicle under a certain age).
Apparently they never asked him to detail all the accessories fitted to the vehicle (as many insurers do).

He argued with them, that the vehicle was supplied to him fully equipped from the dealer with all the accessories, and that they were insuring the whole deal - and he wanted a replacement vehicle identically equipped.

They continued to protest about the "extras" - so he supplied the car dealers invoice showing all the fitted accessories, and total pricing - and claimed that he bought the vehicle as a single purchase, equipped as he specified.
The insurance company relented and supplied an identically-equipped vehicle. The difference would have been several thousand dollars if he hadn't pursued the insurance company to pay out on the accessories.

If you remove seating, and replace the seating with custom-made components, and the vehicle is written off, it's likely your insurance payout will not compensate you adequately, unless you advise your insurance company of the alterations.

Hi Mapesy,

There is a Qld Transport website here that specifically addresses your question. When you click on the website it downloads a PDF document with all the answers.

An extract from that PDF is as follows..............

"The main principal that needs to be addressed when assessing the
removal of seats is whether the vehicle is actually modified or has just
been reconfigured in accordance with the manufacturers various options.
If seats are reconfigured, no modification occurs and approval is not
required.
The other factor is the length of time the seats will be removed."

I would believe that you are simply "reconfiguring" and not "modifying" so all is OK.
But go to the website for the complete and authoritative answer.

Hope this helps.

Very early this year (2013) I was told by a Rego ACT inspector over the phone that it is much the same for the ACT. He said the if I was to remove both second and third rows that the car has to be registered as a "goods carrying vehicle". His words exactly. Put the willies up me a bit and I never got back to it.

But do you think I can find any reference to it. I am wondering if he was just anti 4WD mods.

Has anyone got a reference for the ACT seating changes? Come on you search wizards (now that's a challenge).

Thanks for the reminder. Lost that bit of paper among all the reminder notes.

Phil

Thank you one and all for your informative comments. I now know that to temporarily remove the third row of seats is OK. I guess I won't be selling them in the near future.
Thanks again.

The moral of the story is to keep your 3rd row seats and brackets and put them back in if your REGO fails because of the seats removed. It would be a half hour job to have them in place and back to the pink slip guy! Michael

I had the same problem when I owned the prado in the NT. Went for rego, and the inspector said "those draws are only temporary aren't they? You are going on a trip and going to put the seats back (3rd row) on completion, aren't you? "" Of course my answer was "Yes Sir!" No problem was his reply....
regards