Which Map Canning Stock Route?

I have used Wesprint on a number of occasions but for desert trekking a person wants to see the switchback between the dunes in order to straight line and save some kms.

Any advice on which map has the detail of those back and forth between dunes - paper, not GPS?

I thought there was a folding hema map but can't seem to find a link for it anywhere.

It would appear that next year the CSR is going to busy with cyclists and several walkers.
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Reply By: Member - Kevflo (QLD) - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 06:50

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 06:50
Wether you are walking or travelling in a vehicle for desert trekking, It will be extremely difficult (almost impossible) to "straight line" between the dunes in my opinion.. Best of luck !!
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Follow Up By: Gaynor - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 07:31

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 07:31
I should explain better. The straight line the hiker or cyclist would take is only for a short section at a time, a few kms maybe. At most I personally did about 25km from Savory Creek to Well18 skirting Lake Disappointment saving not doing double the distance via Well 19 which was dry anyway.

The CSR has lots of back and forths between dunes, sometimes leaving the track and going over a dune or two for 1km will save several km of track. This was generally done in areas where the scrub/spinifex was sparse or the land burned. There was a lot of burned land this year so I was off track a lot.

But there were many times when after a few km I found myself in a maze of close growing big spinifex and bush, fighting my way through it wishing I was on the track. Was not always the short cut I hoped it would be!

The map would just be an aid. I don't mean a straight line from Billi to Wiluna.
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Follow Up By: Idler Chris - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 09:53

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 09:53
I would suggest that most people would believe that anybody claiming to walk/run/cycle etc the CSR would pass every well. You have not done this and I would like to know which of the wells you did not pass. If the criteria for passing a well is that it has water in it then you should say so. For some wells there is one track in and out, did you bypass these also by "saving not doing double the distance" as well?
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Follow Up By: Gaynor - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 16:53

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 16:53
Hi Chris

Each and every walk, run, cycle has its own rules. There are no overall rules because this is not a competition, but a personal journey.

My 'claim' is this: To have walk from Billiluna to Wiluna, Every Step of the Way, without EVER stepping foot into a vehicle at any time for any reason. I did it solo.

Some would say I did it unsupported because I did not have a support vehicle with me on the walk. To be scrupulously honest, Andy did follow me out on the first day and was there on the last day. You may take the 'solo' status away if it offends your definition. This is written on my website and in my Post Walk writings i.e. my diary of the walk. I am up to Day 16 so far. Only another 40 days to write up.

Murray, Rex and Kathy are written into the history books as 'unsupported' and were using supply drops. I do not claim 'unsupported', even though I did it in the same way. Without those supply drops I could not have walked from Billi to Wiluna.

Their definition of the rules. My definition of the rules. Everyone has their own. We live with the sense of achievement according to the rules we set ourselves.
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Follow Up By: Gaynor - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 16:55

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 16:55
correction 50 more days to write up.
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Reply By: Member - Tony (ACT) - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 07:21

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 07:21
Agree with the above, the CSR "track" does a lot of zig zaging between dunes and to try and go in a straight line would create major problems, not only for vehicle and driver but for "Off Track" driving ie not accepted.
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Follow Up By: Gaynor - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 07:33

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 07:33
Hey Tony

This is for walker and cyclist. We leave almost no trace. Should have explained better.

This website might help: www.canningwalker.com
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Reply By: MactrolPod - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 07:52

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 07:52
G'day Gaynor,

Hope you have a good Christmas.
I can remember a few of those switchbacks you are talking of, if you knew where the track was up ahead it would save a lot of walking time if you could cross the dune and pick the track up again.
A GPS with a snail trail would do what you want, record the trail on the recce / supply drop leg that you did with Andy and you have all the info you want.
But, carrying another bit of kit and something to charge it is not very attractive for a walker.
I don't know of a map with fine detail to suit your needs, hope there is something out there for you.

Thanks for posting the pics I sent on your web page, glad you liked them that much.
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Follow Up By: Gaynor - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 17:10

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 17:10
Hi Iain

One of my favourite photos :-) You captured the essence of me that day.

Batteries were a killer. The Garmin 301 that I wore on my wrist ate Lithiums at a rate of two to three days of sunrise to sunset. Gave me a huge shock when I realised I could not use the GPS as I intended.

On the supply drop before the walk I had it running to measure distance between drops accurately. After that discovery, I economised. But like you said, between Wiluna and Well 15 I had a snail trail that was very helpful. This little unit cannot store that much track anyway. Had I know all this I would have taken loads more batteries and saved the track onto the bigger Garmin76 csx which I had as back up.

However, a map and compass are important. Out there, as you say, you cannot rely on electronics if you are limited in power resupply due to weight considerations.

The walkers and cyclists who have asked me to recommend a map are not using drops therefore don't have the luxury of recording the route first. The cyclist is an elderly citizen. Take my hat off to his bucket list wish!
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Reply By: Member - Boobook - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 07:58

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 07:58
Hi Gaynor. Generally the Westprint or hemqa NW DEsert maps are about as good as you will get on paper.

However the EOTopo 200 GPS map from here show a lot more detail, including more tracks and shortcuts, dunes and water areas.

You could either print the appropriate parts out( which may not be practical) or take a small smart phone with a little solar charger to supplement your paper westprint / Hema maps.

Just an idea, but the map is perfect from what you describe.
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Reply By: Member - John and Val - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 08:11

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 08:11
Reckon I'd be staying with the track. On much of the CSR there is enough scrub to ensure that even if walking, you will do a lot of km just walking around obstacles. Probably shorter overall to stay with the track. A paper map covering the Canning with the detail you'd need to plan any deviations from the track will be huge! and I'm sure it doesn't exist.

It would also be very foolhardy to leave the track on foot. This is tough country. Traveling without a vehicle or two it would be near suicidal to venture far from the track. And without a gps, even if a detailed map existed, you wouldn't know where you are on that huge map! DON'T DO IT !!!!

John
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 09:08

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 09:08
I have to agree with John. Both for safety and an easier path to walk on and follow. Why bust your gut unnecessarily. No support vehicle can follow you.

I would also wonder if the local owners would be a little concerned. They can be quite sensitive about it for good reasons. We are allowed to get off the track for camping or a cuppa but that isn't kilometers of short cut. And maybe the detour or 'long way around', is to stay out of culturally significant areas or swamps.

Either way I wish you well for the walk. Me! I think that I will take the car.

Phil
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Follow Up By: equinox - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 12:56

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 12:56
Come on John where's your sense of adventure?

Haven't you ever done anything just because it is hard, dangerous or a bit different?

I know I have but age wearies me now, as I am but now an old man lol..

Alan
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Follow Up By: Member - John and Val - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 13:26

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 13:26
Hi Alan,

You don't stop being adventurous because you're growing older, you grow older because you stop being adventurous! So let's keep being adventurous!

My concern with this post wasn't just for the original poster. While there may half a dozen of us visibly discussing the original question, there are usually a thousand listening in without saying anything (see the counter at the bottom of this page.) It would be unfortunate if anyone was misled into thinking that when walking (or cycling) in the Australian deserts it's ok to spontaneously leave the recognised route. The Canning isn't a good place to go wandering off the track on your own. With experience, a capable vehicle and co-driver, I'd go off-track on the CSR (again!) without any concerns. On foot though, or on a bike in powdery sand - well it could very easily lead to more adventure than you can handle. Pretty hard to call in assistance if you are off the agreed route and don't know exactly where your are! (As I know you are well aware. But there may be someone listening who isn't!)

Cheers

John

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Follow Up By: Gaynor - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 20:38

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 20:38
I am getting the idea that the paper option is going to have to be selective. But I and others need to explore these questions in order to plan effectively. I am grateful for everyone's enlightening contributions.

Walking off track is not advisable. Agreed. I did so in order to experience a little of what those pioneers and early walkers did. I started out in areas where the land was burned, but after a few dunes I would often be regretting my foolishness as, yes, I would find myself in thick growth having to wiggle walk through the spinifex and bush adding more kms to the walk than I intended. This caused more than one panic attack, something I refer to in my Post Walk notes as a Bob Cooper moment. If I had twisted an ankle, my dodgy back given out or had another aggressive camel encounter rendering me incapable of getting back onto the track, I would have had a hard time explaining to the annoyed SPOT recovery team why I was so off track in the first place. If they found me alive that it.

This experience was important to me in order to understand some of what those who had gone before me endured. I am left with great respect and a growing humility for my small achievement.
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Follow Up By: Gaynor - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 20:47

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 20:47
Hey Phil

There is an Aboriginal belief that the land is brought to life by those who walk it. Did you notice the flowers this year?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Songline

In his 1987 book The Songlines, British novelist and travel writer, Bruce Chatwin describes the songlines as:

"...the labyrinth of invisible pathways which meander all over Australia and are known to Europeans as 'Dreaming-tracks' or 'Songlines'; to the Aboriginals as the 'Footprints of the Ancestors' or the 'Way of the Law'.

Aboriginal Creation myths tell of the legendary totemic being who wandered over the continent in the Dreamtime, singing out the name of everything that crossed their path - birds, animals, plants, rocks, waterholes - and so singing the world into existence."''
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Follow Up By: Gaynor - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 21:06

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 21:06
I am in part joking. There goes that short lived humility I was talking of.

But it does sadden me that it is the white man doing the walking, following in the footsteps of Creation. There is a belief that following the path of Creation is important to keeping the world in existence.

Bull I hear you say. Been out in the desert way too long..... but for some of us, there are things we cannot explain. How do we explain the irresistible call of the desert? How do we explain the things that happen out there? The way we feel in certain situations?

It was my hope one day, that I would walk the Canning Stock Route the way Aborigine did once upon a time. By living off the land and travelling with almost nothing.

But the more I learn about the desert, the more inadequate I feel. The hardship of such an adventure would be extremely high and I don't know if I have that within me. I certainly would not do it alone. But maybe when the memory of this solo walk fades, and a way is revealed, I might return for one last walk - the ultimate test of skill and endurance.

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Follow Up By: Gaynor - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 21:18

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 21:18
Enough of the 'old' talk Alan. You are younger than me :-)

But I have seen your video clips, read your outback reports so I know you are only joking. Sort of. I must agree that the body feels it more than it used to. I sometimes feel like this small ageless 'flame' wondering what the the hell is wrong with the carcass that is transporting it around.
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Reply By: Idler Chris - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 09:33

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 09:33
If you are going to claim that you walked the CSR then thats what I believe you should do. If you take shortcuts by going off track you are not doing the whole CSR. If you are running, or even walking a marathon, it is cheating to take short cuts. While I applaud those who walk the CSR and other tough tracks you should not be claiming to do something which you have not. The person who walks the entire track could rightly feel cheated by another claiming the same feat but who cheated by taking shortcuts. I personally feel that I may have been cheated in that donations I have made in the past have been made under false pretenses. I for one will not be making any further donations unless there is some assurance that walker/runner/cyclist etc does what they claim and that there is no cheating.
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Follow Up By: Echucan Bob - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 09:59

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 09:59
Chris

I take the view that travelling kms along a swale to avoid crossing a dune is cheating. The cattle went straight over the top. The long way was developed for vehicles incapable of following the original route.

Bob
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 10:59

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 10:59
Yes the Canning Stock Route and the track that people drive along are in reality two different things...which makes me think that no walker, cyclist or juggler (or 4WDriver) has ever done the entire "Stock Route" (Halls creek to Wiluna ?) just the bit the 4WD track goes though (Billiluna to Willuna) (but I could be wrong). Nothing wrong with that - that's what the CSR is generally regarded as being.

Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: Gaynor - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 19:41

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 19:41
Hi Greg

Recent CSR Adventure history is a passion of mine. I have a timeline of the most interesting adventures here http://www.canningwalker.com/canning-history/a-short-history

Concentrates mostly on FIRST's, but I have added a few extras, 'cause they were different i.e. a lady with two camels and a horse, the 1974 motorcyclists who were resupplied from the air, the first female solo motorcyclist etc..

In the table it shows the start and end point for each adventure. They all differ but yes, some of them did the whole CSR from Old Halls Creek Post Office to Wiluna Post Office. I have it listed only as Halls Creek but will go back and update those that used Old Halls Creek as a start or end point where I have that information. Thanks for bringing that up.
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Follow Up By: Gaynor - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 19:44

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 19:44
Bob, that is why when I did a straight line, I called it a Drovers Line :-)

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Follow Up By: Gaynor - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 20:19

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 20:19
Chris, I don't have you on the donations list http://www.canningwalker.com/walk-with-a-cause/walk-4-wheels?showall=&start=1

I was pretty thorough about noting everyone's contribution to the quadriplegics organisation I was walking for. Please refresh my memory of your donation. I do apologies for this omission.

If you feel I misrepresented, please email me your account details and I will refund you out of my own bank account. I would not want you to feel cheated into donating money to a charity organisation I represented.

I have no problem with you question the definition of my walk. When I gather information about other peoples efforts I have to work out what category to put them into. At the moment I do this by listing them as using 'Supply Drops' or 'Support Vehicles' or 'Completely Unsupported'. So far this is the best way I have found to group a wide variety of personal achievements each with their own definition of their rules.

My own rule, i.e. never stepping foot into a vehicle at any time between Billiluna and Wiluna was so powerful that I was completely incapable of climbing into a vehicle to fetch something a traveller aske me to get, even though it was stationary. I found myself bumping up against a mental barrier that may as well have been physical. In Durba Springs the Rangers invited me on my day off to come out to the burns where they were doing a bush turkey barbecue Aboriginal style. As much as I wanted to go, I could not accept the invitation. They asked why and I said because it was against the rules. They asked me whose rules and I replied, my own. Made no sense to them, but those are the rules I walked the Canning Stock Route with.

Some partly drive and still claim walking the entire CSR. Some use supply drops and call it unsupported. Others plan to walk it calling their walk unassisted, but they have two drivers and two vehicles with them. We all have our own rules. I lay mine out clearly on my website, noting exactly how I did it. I do that the best I can with others achievements. The reader may judge according to his own perspective, or the reader might acknowledge the achievement for what it was.

Regarding donating: I have done voluntary work in crisis situations, the longest and most horrific stint was in the 1994 Rwandan Genocide aftermath. I saw how money was squandered and abused I lost my naivety in those two months. I am careful with whom I now make donations.

However, it is my belief that if you are unable to give, your time or your money, with a completely open and loving heart, don't.
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Follow Up By: WBS - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 23:49

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 23:49
I'll give you a little snippet of background information.

Back in the 1960's and 70's the Canning Stock Route was not shown on the NATMAP 1:250K maps. Why? because it did not physically exist anymore. There were only the remnants of wells that field survey parties from National Mapping and the Survey Corps came across and could identify. The wells that could not be identified on aerial photography were not all shown. The route was not visible at all.

As I recall, and without checking my diaries and notes for the accurate dates, in the late 1980's NATMAP in Dandenong was approached by a man called Peter Vernon who lobbied for the stock route to be reinstated on the maps due to the renewed interest in the Stock Route by enthusiastic 4WDers who were venturing out trying to locate old wells and refurbishing them. I was the person who liaised with Peter on behalf of NATMAP.

Peter Vernons lobbying was successful and approval was given by the Assistant Director of NATMAP (Dandenong) to reinstate the stock route. Peter donated copies his field notes he had compiled during his many adventures. NATMAP Dandenong mounted a field trip to identify all wells between Wiluna and Halls Creek and to spot photograph (aerial photograph) all the wells we could find. I was involved in CSR project but did not take part in the field trip. My job was the plotting of the route itself using 1954 aerial photography on which we could only just see the remnants of the last cattle drive to use the stock route, referring to Cannings field notes, Peter Vernon's notes and whatever other relevant information we could dig up. It is no certainty that all the cattle drives followed exactly the same path between wells.

The depiction of the stock route was based on where the cattle had walked from well to well on the last drive as best we could. The wells themselves were reasonably well identified by this stage. That's how we managed to put the stock route back onto the NATMAP 250K maps.

These days a track is visible on Google Maps and Google Earth but they are vehicle tracks. I don't believe anyone can really tell where the Canning Stock Route travelled between wells. The cattle and the drovers were probably just plodding along headed for the next well, taking the path most suitable at the time given the weather conditions.

Thats my story
WBS
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Tuesday, Dec 24, 2013 at 02:28

Tuesday, Dec 24, 2013 at 02:28
Hi

Discussed this before a few years ago and probably should consult Phil B on this for finer detail but for those that are interested the real stock route is an officially gazetted stock route and still is (though obviously not used for this purpose anymore - which is a good thing). You can’t see it on an air photo as it’s not a physical feature (Not sure what the Natmap guys were looking for though suppose cattle degraded vegetation may have provided a guide in the past :)

It is for the most part ~ 10km wide (but some wider and narrower areas exist). Example provided below (red line defines boundary of the Canning Stock Route.. a snip of official cadastral boundary, blue line the track people use to access the area for whatever purpose)



The track referred to as the CSR in previous posts, is simply as far as I can figure, a track that people have created to follow the “real” Canning Stock Route as best as possible (nothing to do with where the cattle actually walked though possibly some correlation by chance). Most of the way the pseudo CSR is inside the Canning Stock Route but in some sections it obviously got too hard so significant deviations were required (example below).



Maybe it should have been called the Canning Stock Route Track. Certainly a great adventure however you interpret it.

Cheers
Greg

I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Follow Up By: Gaynor - Tuesday, Dec 24, 2013 at 02:58

Tuesday, Dec 24, 2013 at 02:58
Greg, WBS, what is behind Breadon Valley/Hills? I contemplated taking a short between Well 50 and 49 to an area coming out north of Well 47 but chickened as it would been camping offtrack, the section deemed to long for me to make it across in daylight. Any information why such a big loop through Well 48 and 49. Obviously water was not found on a straighter line? But maybe there is some other obstacle?
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Follow Up By: WBS - Tuesday, Dec 24, 2013 at 09:28

Tuesday, Dec 24, 2013 at 09:28
Just because a stock route was gazetted did not mean it was shown on a topographic map. There has to be physical evidence of its existence such as existing bounding fences or visible tracks. Some stock routes are fenced but not the CSR.

What the NATMAP people were looking for on the CSR was the disturbed surface caused by the cattle hooves that showed up as a darker smudge on aerial photographs. In some places these were quite visible while in other places they became very difficult to identify but we could interpret the direction and pick up the cattle tracks as best we could.

On the the latest NATMAP maps, the positioning of the stock route was based on the track people drove down. This information was most likely provided to NATMAP by HEMA from their GPS track plots. NATMAP and HEMA had a quid pro quo arrangement where HEMA gave NATMAP track plots in exchange for the base data for GEODATA.
NATMAP stopped doing field inspection and aerial photography in the early 90's. They did some very minor verification for GEODATA Series 3.

Gaynor,
Sorry, but I can't help you. The closet I've been to the CSR is to drive out to Well 1 from Wiluna back in 1985 while on a field trip out there. The stock route was not visible from the air back then.

There should be people on this forum who could help you with your question.
WBS
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Tuesday, Dec 24, 2013 at 10:39

Tuesday, Dec 24, 2013 at 10:39
Hello Gaynor

From what I can figure, and as you suggest, the significant deviation in the Stock Route is simply caused by them heading northwards from Well 47 to the next best watering spot (west side of Breaden Hills - Breaden's Pool and Godfrey's Tank and where they sunk Well 48 on flats) and then as a consequence having to go up and around the hills before heading east towards Lake Gregory/Sturt Creek. From what I can see there is no obstacle on the east side of the hills - just more sand hills and maybe some low rocky hills (certainly no obstacle for a walker) - but this is just deduced from Google Earth.



Cheers
Greg
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Tuesday, Dec 24, 2013 at 11:11

Tuesday, Dec 24, 2013 at 11:11
Sorry WBS my comment was some what tongue in cheek, though I am wondering now what the Natmap guys you speak of actually mapped and how was it shown on the map. You seem to suggest that they somehow followed/mapped the actual path the cattle took (very difficult in a car I would have thought) and not the track that is now present - did they go cross country the whole way...or did they simply verify the position of a 4WD track that existed at the time and the wells?

Cheers
Greg
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Follow Up By: WBS - Tuesday, Dec 24, 2013 at 14:11

Tuesday, Dec 24, 2013 at 14:11
Greg,
As you say "very difficult in a car..."
We (NATMAP people) used the cattle trail as seen on archival aerial photography dating back, as I said to the 1950's, after a cattle drive had gone through. It was all using aerial photography in the office at Dandenong. The wells were relocated using field work along with Peter Vernon's info. I'm pretty sure we placed a "position Approximate caviate on the track.

It was the best we could do at the time. We didn't have GPS available in those days. It would have helped on this particular exercise.

WBS

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Follow Up By: Gaynor - Tuesday, Dec 24, 2013 at 14:32

Tuesday, Dec 24, 2013 at 14:32
Love all this history. You guys are fantastic!
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Tuesday, Dec 24, 2013 at 14:35

Tuesday, Dec 24, 2013 at 14:35
No worries - I have just had a look at the 250K scale Geology maps of the area I have - various dates but the screen shot below is from a map dated 1978 (compiled 1976) - it illustrates what you are talking about (assume the BMR used same data)....

The maps show sections of the actual Canning Stock Route (where cattle were run not the track) as a dashed line as you describe. It is indeed marked "position approximate" and just stops and starts as various points presumably because the actual position could not be determined along its entire length from air photos.



All very interesting.

Cheers
Greg
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Follow Up By: Gaynor - Tuesday, Dec 24, 2013 at 16:30

Tuesday, Dec 24, 2013 at 16:30
oooohhh...Lake Tobin. I went cold and shivery just at the memory of it. I love camels normally, but I got to say, if I had a rifle I would have shot the one bugger.
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Tuesday, Dec 24, 2013 at 17:09

Tuesday, Dec 24, 2013 at 17:09
When I was last out that way (Oct 2013) they (Ag dept contractors) were busy shooting as many as they could find...

I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Follow Up By: equinox - Wednesday, Dec 25, 2013 at 11:17

Wednesday, Dec 25, 2013 at 11:17
Hi guys,

Here's a scan of my 1963 Percival Natmap Edition 1 sheet bottom right corner.



The gap in the sandridges north east of Waddawalla are clearly seen.

Cheers
Alan
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In whatever comes our way.

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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Wednesday, Dec 25, 2013 at 14:18

Wednesday, Dec 25, 2013 at 14:18
Arrr so many maps ..so little time :)

Cheers
Greg
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Reply By: Member - wicket - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 09:53

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 09:53
For what it's worth: I have a Magellan explorist handheld with the topo maps, this includes the Canning Stock Route which clearly shows any areas of straight lining you might care to take
AnswerID: 523426

Follow Up By: Gaynor - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 19:31

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 19:31
An excellent image representing what I am talking about. Thanks Wicket.

I am going to link the 2014 CSR On Foot Adventurers to this page. You guys have been great.
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FollowupID: 804844

Reply By: Echucan Bob - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 09:53

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 09:53
Gaynor

I love what you are doing and wish I had the time and youth to do something similar.

When we have travelled "off road" (finding confluence points) we have used Google Earth to reconnoitre the region. I mark the intended route on the electronic map. If you needed to you could print out the bits where you intend to cut off loops of track.

The amount of detail provided by Google Earth varies quite a bit. In some places you can make out individual clumps of spinifex, and in others its just a blur. There is always enough detail to see where the dunes run and where larger trees stand however. You can usually follow vehicle tracks, even if it is just two wheel ruts in the sand.

Good luck with your venture.

Bob
AnswerID: 523427

Reply By: Alan S (WA) - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 10:10

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 10:10
Gay or
I found that the 250k NAT maps showed a lot of dune detail that was reasonably accurate. When using oziexplorer quite often the dunes shown on the screen represented what we were travelling over. Although not all the time though, and it didn't differentiate between Swales and entire dunes.
You could overlay on a 250k map a prerecorded track and print them out to paper.

One thought comes to mind though to be able to do what you to do wont you need to know exactly where you are, so wouldn't a small GPS be necessary.

Alan
AnswerID: 523428

Follow Up By: The Explorer - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 11:18

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 11:18
Hi

Based on what I have seen the Natmap 250K map does in fact show dunes and the track in enough detail to allow "short cuts" to be taken without fear of getting lost or being cursed by the non-believers..example below



Trouble is I don't think they sell 250K maps in paper form anymore but simple enough to print out sections . The maps are available as a free download from the GA website..or you can buy a digital copy from the Exploroz shop (or get EoTop which will have same track and dunes though more expensive option). The dunes are also shown on the Hema GDT map but a bit hard to make out due to small scale used. Haven't seen the Westprint CSR map so not sure if that is better, their NW outback map is no good for the purpose.

Cheers
Greg
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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FollowupID: 804814

Follow Up By: Gaynor - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 19:15

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 19:15
Greg, all good options. This is what I am looking for. Thank you.
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FollowupID: 804842

Follow Up By: Gaynor - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 19:26

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 19:26
Excellent options Alan.

Yes, a GPS is still something I would recommend taking. I loved my wrist version as it was always handy to refer to and having it on me every moment during the day gave me a sense of security. It had the waypoint to water loaded. But it did not have a map. Easy enough to enter the well points from the ExlporOz Trek page which has so much useful information http://www.exploroz.com/TrekNotes/WDeserts/Canning_Stock_Route.aspx

I personally would recommend carrying a second GPS with the track loaded. These are not as convenient as I don't know of any that fit on your wrist. Maybe I missed it and there is something. I would then take that.

But on a trek like this, when all else fails, i.e gps stops working, batteries are duds, gest lost or damaged, having a paper back up and compass makes good sense.
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FollowupID: 804843

Follow Up By: WBS - Tuesday, Dec 24, 2013 at 10:29

Tuesday, Dec 24, 2013 at 10:29
Greg and others,
Be very careful about expecting the sand ridges to be an accurate representation of the actual sand ridges on NATMAP maps and GPS data. Up until 1997, sand ridges were really representative of what was on the ground but after that time, some genius staff at NATMAP (AUSLIG) decided to generalise the sand ridges on many maps, as they looked "too cluttered and messy". I argued very strongly against this approach stating practical experience of counting sand ridges in otherwise featureless country as a way of navigating from both the air and on the ground. I lost the argument, so many hundreds of sand ridges were removed from the current series of maps. Its something that still rankles with me.

My advice is to look at Google Maps or Google Earth to verify sand ridges. If you can get hold of copies of the original 1:100K compilation sheets from which the 250K maps were generated, with all the sand ridges on them, they would be helpful too.
WBS
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Tuesday, Dec 24, 2013 at 10:53

Tuesday, Dec 24, 2013 at 10:53
Hi

This has also been discussed before several years ago..anyway I have checked various areas before by overlying the 250K dune data (shapefile format download from GA website) over Google Earth and there is a very good match between what is shown on the maps and reality (for the areas I looked at). I don't have time to provide an example...and I obviously haven't checked the position of every sand dune but either way it is pretty easy to see on the 250K map where the CSR track switches back and forth between dunes (hence there must be a dune in the way supporting the depiction of the dunes on the map as correct). Anyway I don't think it is a problem worth worrying about - even if the odd dune isn't shown correctly on the map...just walk over it :)

Cheers
Greg
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Reply By: The Explorer - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 11:40

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 11:40
Hi...this map book my be what you are looking for

CSR Strip Maps


..but I have not seen it so cant say....maybe someone else can comment.

Cheers
Greg

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AnswerID: 523432

Follow Up By: Gaynor - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 19:12

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 19:12
Thank you for the link, Explorer. Will forward your suggestion. If anyone can comment on whether the track between dunes is represented in detail in this map book, I would appreciate your comment.

What I would suggest to other trekkers would be then to remove those pages that look like good straight line crossings and laminate. As they walk each section, they can burn the map. I did that with the Westprint map, but it lacks important detail.
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FollowupID: 804841

Reply By: CSeaJay - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 13:45

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 13:45
Shame on all who goes off topic in discussing things like cheating and pretending to know better on adventure planning, probably some never on a bike or foot before. In the process ridiculing the adventurous planning the original poster has. They did not ask your opinion on what is cheating or not. They asked a technical question.
Some replies are from know-it-alls. Sounds to me this adventure is being planned well.
CJ
AnswerID: 523436

Follow Up By: MactrolPod - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 15:04

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 15:04
Our group had the great pleasure of meeting this amazing lady during our trip along the CSR.
She gave us 1/2 an hour of her time, which is very generous considering she was not moving so making her target camp that much later in the day.
We all left her with the understanding she knew exactly what she was doing and how she intended to do it. All with good humour, a broad smile and a twinkle in her eye.
To read some of these posts leave me shaking my head, if people do not push the known boundaries what would we would be left with?
This lady planned and prepared well and executed that plan she had set herself, to say she cheated in any way is beyond me.
There are places the vehicle track bypasses the actual stock route for quite some distance and more than once.
What did we do? Go for a drive in the WA deserts that happened to have a few wells here and there?
To our group she walked the CSR of that there can be no doubt.
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FollowupID: 804828

Reply By: Life Member - Fred B (ex-NT) - Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 23:59

Monday, Dec 23, 2013 at 23:59
Hi Gaynor,
all the best with your trip. Below is a sample of what the wesprint maps look like. Its in two sections, CSR North and CSR South. I believe there is an updated one available, however, the CSR map (as strips) available from the EO shop ($19???) is a much better option.
regards

Fred B
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AnswerID: 523455

Follow Up By: Gaynor - Tuesday, Dec 24, 2013 at 03:03

Tuesday, Dec 24, 2013 at 03:03
Thanks Fred. I did in fact use the Westprint map on my walk this year. Westprint kindly sent me a large poster image which I printed, cut into sections and laminated. The idea was good, however the detail was lacking re track going back and forth between dunes. As people have commented, it would actually take a lot of paper to get the kind of detail that would be useful.
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Reply By: Mark T6 - Tuesday, Dec 24, 2013 at 17:05

Tuesday, Dec 24, 2013 at 17:05
I met Gaynor at Durba Springs this year and am in absolute total awe of of what she does. Here were we in our air conditioned fourby's whinging about the corrugations, and I asked her about this ( thinking that corrugations would be easier for her than us), her comment was " you reckon they are bad for you!! "

Wonderful to meet you Gaynor, if only for about 5 mins, pleased you made it through.
AnswerID: 523477

Follow Up By: Gaynor - Tuesday, Dec 24, 2013 at 18:07

Tuesday, Dec 24, 2013 at 18:07
:-) The corrugations did have me weaving all over the road trying to find the smoothest 'ride'. Because they are at different heights and spacings, I could not establish a pace rhythm especially when tired which was most of the time. The effort put into constant concentration to lift a foot and place it on the ground with minutely different heights, over and over, was much like driving, maybe.. For me the worst were north of Well12.

Some 4x4 drivers should good aptitude for finding the most comfortable line and I would walk in their track. When I came upon the northbound cyclists, following in their tracks was even better. I reckon it was probably hardest on them.
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FollowupID: 804920

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