Trying to look into the future !, Where is it heading With Diesel?

After market units are already available but convincing the car makers to spend a few extra dollars could be the main issue.. Most buyers are more interested if their potential new diesel car has Bluetooth and 7 speakers than better engine protection! I used to have a small weekend business in the early 90's, selling By-Pass oil filters to the 4x4 and car market at car shows etc, even a dramatic demo of before and after couldn't convince most onlookers of the benefits! Most of the young car nuts preferred to buy something shiny for their vehicle instead, I'm sure!
Michael

G'day Michael

You are right, having 7 speakers, 2 extra amps and a sub under each seat is a great thing to have, helps entertain the masses while sitting still when the engine won't go.
Filtering is a thing you have on a speaker system wiring so the tweeters the twits are listening to can be heard clearly.
Bu opening the doors and turning up the volume it should propel the vehicle forward quite OK.It's only a matter of kilowatts anyway.
Ah, priorities, always hard to decide which is best to have first, that is for some people.

PS There is no advantage for a car maker to make/fit really good filtering and detection systems. Reduces their income in spares and repairs and sales of replacement vehicles.

Systems fitted to modern vehicles are sufficient for what they are intended to do, the number of vehicles that suffer from poor filtration issues are very very low and in the whole scheme of things they do not need to make it better.

As for bypass oil filter systems, we use to see a far few trucks in the 80's and early 90's with them but their popularity has declaimed at a rapid rate over the years.

And all these standard luxury items...... Do you think a vehicle manufacture would not fit this gear is there was no call for it and people didn't want it...... They build vehicles for the masses, not just 17 people who think different.

Over the years things I thought were gimmicks I now look for in a vehicle and find it hard and annoying when they are not fitted....... Rain sensing wipers and reversing alarms are just two things I thought I would never need or want.

Buy and use clean diesel which is what you get at most servos and the fuel filters fitted as standard will cope no worries.
Buy a load of rubbish fuel and get ready for some possibly major dramas.
As olcoolone said, having a filtration system that could filter swamp water increases the initial cost of the vehicle, but is the average "soccer mum" going to know or care??

Cheers
Pop

Hi Pop
You quoted “Buy a load of rubbish fuel and get ready for some possibly major dramas”.
Without testing the fuel you have no way of knowing what is rubbish.
2 years ago, I sampled the diesel at a number of service stations around my suburb in Perth and a number on the road around the south west of WA.
Had clean fuel from the shoddiest looking stations on the road.
The dirtiest fuel was from a modern clean looking Shell service station in Perth.

Hey Dennis,

Perth area for me too.
You'll know if the fuel you just picked up is, or has a fair "rubbish" content. Hopefully your filter has a water warning device fitted and should notify you. The next warning should be the filter getting blocked and the engine loosing power. Next step, particularly if you have a CRD type engine and most modern diesels are, engine stops because "rubbish "has passed through and stuffed your expensive pump and injectors.
Now an old dinosaur like mine can digest a bit of rubbish and survive.

Cheers
Pop

So what are you trying to say Skull? Electric vehicles are the go?? :) Michael

I though this was about Electric vehicles, as they have motors, not sure of the connection with diesel as it goes into engines, not motors.

We use engine in motor cars and it's called motoring.

If we use electric will it be called "electricing" or "electrickery".

Common usage of a word technically incorrect does not mean it is correct.
A motor is driven from an external source, electricity, hydraulic, pneumatic which may also include an accumulator.
An engine uses fossil fuels and may be internal or external combustion.

I was referring to the disadvantages of diesel engines rather than suggesting a specific alternative. Yes, the new ones do run cleaner but thick plumes of smoke are still too common.

Some servo diesel pumps are disgusting.

Whatever future engines run on, hopefully will be cleaner.

Just a bit OT but, the old steamers that pulled trains were of course external combustion. You could say external combustion motors but were always referred to as steam engines.

Engine cars ????

Hmm, doesn't seem quite right. (;=))

Maybe motor cars??? lol

Where's diesel going???
Well, when they develop the petrol "engine" to the point where it will tow my van with the same economy as a diesel I will buy one.

Cheers
Pop

Pop,

I currently tow with a diesel and it is more economical in terms of fuel used per km but I wonder if it is cheaper overall when purchase price, higher fuel prices, service costs and of course as the OP suggested, repair costs are considered.

My V8 Jeep was very economical to buy and if you are willing to tow at 90 kph, they don't use much fuel. Add a head wind and they get really thirsty.

Yeah, should have been a bit more expansive with my post, but do you know how long it took me to type what I did using just one finger??? LOL

Not sure about running costs/servicing being much more than a petrol. You still gotta change air, oil and fuel filters on a petrol. Yes, diesel is currently a bit more per liter than petrol but for me the range, availability, safety and overall cost per kilometer makes the diesel more suitable for me anyway.
I generally don't tow at more than 90 kph.
Had both and for me the economy and other factors makes the diesel option my choice for a tow vehicle. For other uses a petrol is fine. Just bought the Mrs a new petrol RAV4, 8.5lt/kl on average. Doesn't do any towing so very suitable for purpose.

Cheers
Pop

Bloody edit button on the blink again (;=))

8.5lt/100 kl

Scared meself WOW 8.5lts per k?????

Pop,

I type with two fingers but only one at a time.

I agree, diesel is it until someone invents something better.

Quote "Dion posted:
Common usage of a word technically incorrect does not mean it is correct.
A motor is driven from an external source, electricity, hydraulic, pneumatic which may also include an accumulator.
An engine uses fossil fuels and may be internal or external combustion."

If we are going to get into defining something then go to a dictionary to check. Not being at home the only convenient one I have is Wickepidia Wiktionary

engine (plural engines)

1 (obsolete) Ingenuity; cunning, trickery, guile. [13th-17th c.]
2 (obsolete) The result of cunning; something ingenious, a contrivance; (in negative senses) a plot, a scheme. [13th-18th c.] [quotations ?]
3 (obsolete) Natural talent; genius. [14th-17th c.]
4 Anything used to effect a purpose; any device or contrivance; an agent. [quotations ?]
5 A large construction used in warfare, such as a battering ram, catapult etc. [from 14th c.]
6 (now archaic) A tool; a utensil or implement. [from 14th c.] [quotations ?]
7 A complex mechanical device which converts energy into useful motion or physical effects. [from 16th c.]
8 A person or group of people which influence a larger group; a driving force. [from 16th c.]
9 The part of a car or other vehicle which provides the force for motion, now especially one powered by internal combustion. [from 19th c.]
10 A self-powered vehicle, especially a locomotive, used for pulling cars along a track. [from 19th c.]
11 (computing) A software or hardware system responsible for a specific technical task (usually with qualifying word). [from 20th c.]
a graphics engine; a physics engine

Synonyms

motor

And on the page motor:

motor (plural motors)

1 A machine or device that converts any form of energy into mechanical energy, or imparts motion.
2 (colloquial) A motor car, or automobile. [quotations ?]
3 (figuratively) A source of power for something, an inspiration, a driving force.

Synonyms

engine

From the above, terms motor and engine are interchangeable.

Wow, Wickepidia, about as much credibility as a Dingo at the Rock wearing a napkin.

Peter,

Just remember, there are none so blind as he who will not see,

Cheers
Pop

So Dion, let's see what your dictionaries give for the definitions?

Now I'm showing my age!! :)) Michael

We require a better car technology with simple and easy specifications for future which is convenient for the users.

Allen ! The current is common rail with very high pressures to give the best spray atomization for max power and economy. Better filtration at all levels and water removal can be the only fix that I can see! I can't see the manufacturers going back to old tractor engines with mechanical pumps like my Patrol! Michael

Worst of all are above ground tanks for water.

Vehicle manufactures are the last who want better economy and lower emissions, the ones who want it are the governments of the world who stipulate vehicles have to give better economy and emissions.

Remember when ADR 27 came into play and the strangulation of fuel economy and power all for less emissions..... Then we saw it with the onset of unleaded fuels, as time went on engine manufactures worked out ways to overcome the power zapping and fuel consumption issues by embracing better technology.

Gronk! Yes, In the future, the rich will be driving and the rest of us will be catching the bus!! Just like the old days, The more things change, the more they stay the same! Michael

You blokes are still believing the same old BS story about "peak oil"?

It's a myth. Oil reserves have increased in the last 15 yrs. Oil shale contains mind-boggling amounts of oil.
The recently-discovered Linc Energy oil shale reserves in S.A. contain nearly as much oil as the Saudi Arabian oilfields.

If push comes to shove, we have the 2nd largest natural gas reserves in the world - and NG can be used in diesels (the entire Perth bus fleet of 1300 buses will all be on NG within 2 yrs) - or NG can be utilised to make diesel.

Linc Energy - S.A. oil shale discovery

SMH - Linc Energy oil shale potential is huge

Yeah, the residents were telling me about this find at Coober Pedy early this year. Some were happy, others were not.

There is another massive shale oil deposit at in QLD that is enormous and was made to be shelved by the captain Bligh government

But mining mining mining ! Open cut is the most efficient process these days with the huge machinery available but where does it end . The mighty apple must surely end up just an apple core in the end! Michael

Sorry that is Prosapine in QLD.

I wonder why a government would stop a shale oil proposal on the Goorganga flood plains, which is on the door step of the Barrier reef.

Might pay to read up about shale oil and the side effects before condemning governments.

Those stats may well be correct! But with China and India buying cars at a great rate, it may well be much less than you quote. Ever increasing economies are not the way to go, less children and a stable world population is the key! Michael

Michael

Totally agree about population being major problem. Some cultures/nationalities/religious groups are using population growth as a weapon (a WMD).

Bob

I think it will be a while before we see hybrid technology in mainstream vehicles, hybrid is a funny technology as many manufactures are moving away from it by producing small capacity multi turbo/ supercharged engines.

They will still produce hybrids for those who need the green factor and are prepared to spend the coin for their own feel good mindset.

Lexus produced the first 4x4 hybrid back in 2004 but like most hybrid based vehicles their numbers are quite small hence the price.

Diesels still have a long way to go in terms of power and economy and are relatively under stressed including the Colorado.

Look at petrol technology over the years, the 4 litre Ford engine in the Falcons are a classic example..... In The early 90's they were producing 148kw and in the current FG it's 198kw with better fuel economy, or with a turbo 270 or 310 kw.

There is a current crop of small 3 and 4 cylinder turbo engines producing around 150kw from a 1 litre, 150kw from a 1.5 and over 200kw from 2 litre...... All offering unbelievable reliability, economy, performance and driveability........ This was unheard off 5 years ago.

The 1litre turbo Daihatsu of the mid 80's were producing just under 60kw, now the same size engine is getting close to 3 time that power.

We have seen much the same in heavy diesel vehicles.

Battery only will become a more common sight than hybrid vehicles once technology and availability improves in the next 5 years.

But it's still many years away before the become common.

147kw from 2.8litres, no big deal, BMW are putting out 280kw from 3litres!

Gentlemen,
I never inferred that more kw cannot be squeezed from these engines. That is NOT my point. My point is how practical is it to keep doing that...and how long will these engines last doing that? Will the 280kw BMW still be on the roads in 20 years time (or even 10 years)? Audi is one of the most reputable diesel engine designers and builders in the world and they choose to only output 180kw from their 3 litre diesel. I think they do that for a reason...reputation for longevity.

Don't really understand these stats, but European countries already use Hybid diesels in their trucks.
One example is this Volvo.

http://www.volvotrucks.com/trucks/global/en-gb/trucks/new-trucks/Pages/volvo-fe-hybrid.aspx

Audi is nudging over 230kw now and the Volvo hybrid is 1truck out of a 15 model range line up plus it is only rated at 26 ton GCM suggesting it's only a short run local delivery truck.

Most vehicles only have a 10 year life expectancy but some want to keep them longer, I honestly don't see a reliability issue in 20 years and if there are problems I would expect it to be on par with what we have seen in the last 20-30 years.

People have very short memories of how reliable and trouble free cars of yesteryear were.

We don,t see any greater issues with a 10 year old Merc or BMW then what we do with a Toyota, Ford or ,Holden of the same vintage.

One thing to understand is your talking power outputs that may only reach those levels for less then 0.1 percent of the vehicles total driving time, the rest of the time it would be putting out much the same as your vehicle BUT at the normal driving power level one would expect the engine to be more reliable then yours due to the fact it has to be capable of putting out big horse power......... How long would your vehicle last if it was driven flat chat 100 percent of the time.

So in theory a high powered engine is under less load and stress than a low powered engine.

This has be proven with loading on heavy vehicles, small horse powered engines might be running under a 80-90 percent load for 75 percent of the trip compared with 50-60 percent for 60 percent of the trip.

The best way to deter and load and wear is the see how much fuel is used.......... A vehicle using 16 litres per 100k is going to be under more wear than a vehicle using 10 litres per 100.

And........

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor-news/backlash-over-mazda-cx5-diesel-oil-issues-20120821-24k6w.html

Oil level increase shows that the engines are suffering from oil dilution via unburned diesel getting past the rings.

This is common when diesels are run cold on short trips, too often - and it shows that too many owners are only taking really short trips - which diesels don't like.

Run any diesel for short trips where the engine doesn't get time to warm up properly, and you'll get oil dilution. It takes 8kms to warm an engine thoroughly.

It shows that these Mazda CX-5 owners are getting conned into buying diesels for city driving, where a diesel is totally unnecessary, and unsuited to the style of operation.

Probably 80% of city driving is less than 3km trips. I watch people in my street drive past when I'm out front, and they'll be back in less than 5 mins, 80% of the time, thus showing they only drove down to the shops and back.

They should forget about the diesel sales BS and buy petrols, unless they do a lot of driving from city to country. This is a classic case where buying diesels is false economy. I would never own a diesel for city use, the economics just aren't there.