Question for the technical guru's

Submitted: Monday, Feb 16, 2004 at 16:29

ThreadID: 10568 Views:2564 Replies:4 FollowUps:4

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Outnabout David (SA)

This is a question I put on the yahoo Prado group forum but is not limited to just Prado's and some comments are probably true for most makes.
Plus there are a lot of overzealous people out there who make some uninformed comments like the Mitsi twisting or ripping apart the chassis if snatched. This got to the stage where I think the factory did a snatch test in a 4wd mag to refute the claims by the so called experts and some training officers.

This question has come about due to the lack of rated recovery
points on the new Prado 120 series. The front as we all know is a problem. The
rear has points where you can fit an aftermarket rated recovery
point on the chassis but depending on angle of pull would probably
foul the bumper.

Also I am hearing that a lot of clubs are not letting or making hard
for 120 owners to go on club trips due to not having a rated
recovery point. Some will allow the use of a bridal on the front tow
hooks and some won't.

The other day I was looking at a 4x4 mag and saw a hook that for
want of a better description is a rated recovery hook bolted into a
towbar receiver. It is rated at 10,000lb and there is another rated
at 20,000lb.

Fantastic the rear problem has been solved......... or has it? I am
sure most clubs would allow this to be used as it is a rated
recovery hook. I have previously just put a snatch strap through the
receiver and hooked onto the pin which is recognised as OK to do
however some say they have bent pins.

Hence I guess the receiver hook but doesn't this rely on the stength
of the pin, the strength of the towbar and the strength of what it
is bolted to.

If you look at the 120 Toyota towbar it is cast steel and Toyota say
it is only recommended for towing at 2,500kg. So is it still alright
to put in a 20,000lb hitch and pull like hell.????

For that matter what is wrong with using a shackle through the hole
in the tongue where a ball would normally go instead of a shackle
through one of these special hitches.

Or should more owners and club instructors, trip coordinators etc.
use a bit more common sense.

I don't know the answer but I sure someone on this group would have
some further comment.
We have so little time to enjoy our land

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Reply By: Roachie - Monday, Feb 16, 2004 at 17:09

Monday, Feb 16, 2004 at 17:09

David,

Not sure I'd class myself as a technical guru; but here's my 2 cents worth anyway.
As the president of a small 4 wheel drive club in country SA, I must say we don't get too hung up about whether vehicles are extremely well set-up as far as recovery points are concerned etc. Provided the vehicle is roadworthy and registered and is likely to be able to undertake the planned trip under normal circumstances, I for one would not be standing in the way of that member coming on a trip. However, having said that, in the event that a vehicle did get stuck and required assistance, as far as I'm concerned it is up to the owner/driver of the stuck vehicle to determine an appropriate anchor point on their vehicle and any recovery would be done on the STRICT understanding that it is "all care: no responsibility" as far as the recovery vehicle/owner is concerned.
Now, with regard to the use of rear towbars is concerned as a recovery point, I see where you are coming from.....I would like to be a fly on the wall when you're talking to your insurance company about how come the arse end of your vehicle parted company with the rest of the truck, simply because you were using it's rated 2500kg (or whatever) to extract a stuck vehicle weighing 3 tonne (add 50% on to that if it's in mud, on a steep incline etc). Likewise, if it's your vehicle that was stuck and the recovery tore away your rear end.....
Not being familiar with the Prado 120 model, I cannot comment on it's specific recovery point provisions (or lack thereof). However, from what I have read, they are not a patch on their older sibbling as far as "bushability" is concerned and are almost bordering on being classed a "super-soft-roader". Wheels/tyres and suspension are apparently all difficult to upgrade.
Good luck.
Cheers,
Roachie

AnswerID: 46913

Follow Up By: Phil G - Monday, Feb 16, 2004 at 18:14

Monday, Feb 16, 2004 at 18:14

G'day Roachie,

Problem is that it is the guy who's doing the recovering who's at risk of getting a shackle through the back of his head.

Cheers
Phil

FollowupID: 308913

Reply By: Member - DOZER- Monday, Feb 16, 2004 at 17:13

Monday, Feb 16, 2004 at 17:13

Gday
I have been appart of discussions about said towbar recoveries, and the g/c was to use a hitch with a shakkle where the ball usually goes, that way all the bits are Rated!
Andrewwheredayathinkwer mike?

AnswerID: 46915

Follow Up By: Outnabout David (SA) - Monday, Feb 16, 2004 at 17:23

Monday, Feb 16, 2004 at 17:23

Dozer,

These fittings I was talking about fit in the hitch coupling and the hook type does away with the shackle( less parts to break and become a missile) which is good. But then if the pin or towbar that it is connected to is not strong enough ........well...........its a bit like the weak link in the chain.

Plus I am sure that it is much point having something rated to 20,000lb if the other bits don't match as it could fool people into a false sense of security.

David S.We have so little time to enjoy our land

FollowupID: 308906

Follow Up By: Member - DOZER- Monday, Feb 16, 2004 at 21:23

Monday, Feb 16, 2004 at 21:23

David
Just reread your post, either the hook or the towbar receiver and shackle would be the go. Both are rated to carry a certain load, the strap and pin can bend the pin because it is not supported in the middle where the force is taken up. The pin wont shear, but can bend.
With the shackle, a bow shackle suitably rated will not let go before the towbar is pulled off the rearend either. This is the weekest link in the equasion.
Andrewwheredayathinkwer mike?

FollowupID: 308929

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 17, 2004 at 08:02

Tuesday, Feb 17, 2004 at 08:02

What I have seen is some of the snatch straps these days have a safety strap that limits how far the ends of the strap will fly in the event of a recovery point giving way. This would appear to be a very sound idea.

FYI a 3 1/4 tonne SWL should have a point of destruction 3 times the rated capacity ie. about 10 tonne.

FollowupID: 308980

Reply By: Wayne (NSW) - Monday, Feb 16, 2004 at 17:39

Monday, Feb 16, 2004 at 17:39

As a "so called expert and training officer" I will start the ball rolling.

Unfortunately most 4wds are made in Japan where they do not get used for what they are design for, also with the trend to make them more car like, recovery point design has suffered on most 4wds.

10000lb sounds a lot but is 4.464 ton
20000lb = 8.928 ton

Any thing which has a "rating" is rated at its weakest part. In the case of a tow bar it would be the pin. Vehicle makers also set tow limits.

A strap through a bow shackel attached tn the reciver hitch is OK, but " pulling like hell " is not, regardless of how a strap is attached.

Common sense should always be used in abundance in all 4wd situations.

Wayne

AnswerID: 46918

Reply By: Allfour4x4 - Monday, Feb 16, 2004 at 22:03

Monday, Feb 16, 2004 at 22:03

Outnabout David,
I'm not any expert, however I believe our club TLCC (Syd.) has no probs with snatching off the tow hitch, providing all connections are rated.
The use of a "bridle" on the front has been recomended by the club as Toyota apparently has said that pulling off just one chassis rail can twist the newer Toyo's ??
A lot of members use the rated recovery hooks as well. Also snatching off the pin will cut through the strap if pulling at an angle.
Personally i think if you just use rated gear and common sense all is well, though sometimes things will break, so it's back to common sense again
Glenn B.

AnswerID: 46967