Any advantages using Penrite oil ?

Submitted: Saturday, Jan 04, 2014 at 14:11
ThreadID: 105680 Views:7641 Replies:9 FollowUps:10
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Hi,
I am considering swapping the engine oil (BP I think) that Mitsubishi sell for my '03 NP diesel Pajero. I have used the Mitsubishi oil without a problem since day one, and have approx 100,000ks on the clock.
A friend has done this and considered initially that his engine ran quieter.
I am wondering if members have any positve/negative feedback. I appreciate that the Penrite is more expensive, but is it worth the cost penalty.
Thank you, Barry
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Reply By: Member - Toyocrusa (NSW) - Saturday, Jan 04, 2014 at 16:40

Saturday, Jan 04, 2014 at 16:40
Hi. The Penrite website recommends their oil called HPR Diesel 15 for your vehicle. It is a Semi Synthetic oil so is priced accordingly. Supercheap did have it for $75 fo a 10litre container last week but I don't know how long that price went for. I prefer the Penrite brand as I have used it fairly exclusively in a workshop for around 7 years now. No affiliation with either company, just a happy user. Cheers,Bob.

Penrite Oils
AnswerID: 523866

Reply By: Ross M - Saturday, Jan 04, 2014 at 16:46

Saturday, Jan 04, 2014 at 16:46
Why is Penrite dearer?
BP Vanellus, Mobil Delvac MX, Caltex Delo, and Shell Rimula are about the best oils around.

I am puzzled why people flock to Penrite when it is often dearer. Penrite should be cheaper.

Price doesn't make an oil better.

Many Hilux owners on 4WDaction have changed from Penrite to one of the above with favourable results, ie less oil usage and less deposits in the engine, ie cleaner inside.
Obviously I'm not a fan of it and while many swear by it, other swear at it.
Hilux owners who have changed from Penrite don't go back to it.

It is flogged/marketed in SuperCheap with other "popular in some circles" oils, which to me says it doesn't sell itself by having a sound performance and reputation.

Most of the above oils are not often advertised but make up a large volume of the oil market.

A personal decision of course.
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Saturday, Jan 04, 2014 at 19:53

Saturday, Jan 04, 2014 at 19:53
Still a bit of a learner in this area and have been through the "Penrite phase" with no problems as I'm sure many would agree but after closer attention I reckon Ross's recommendations would accord with the expertise.

People repeatedly say after buying a new fridge/caravan/car/battery: "hasn't missed a beat" even after a whole 3 months/3 years. Doesn't mean it's any good.
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Saturday, Jan 04, 2014 at 19:56

Saturday, Jan 04, 2014 at 19:56
btw, Repco's home brand oil is made by Penrite. Probable variations in detergents etc but the same oil.
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Reply By: Member - bbuzz (NSW) - Saturday, Jan 04, 2014 at 17:27

Saturday, Jan 04, 2014 at 17:27
I used Penrite for my trip around z (two years) with no problems.

Got talking to a mobile mechanic in Alice Springs and he used Caltex Super? claiming a cleaner engine and better consumption figures. Tried it for 6 months didn't notice any difference.

My Ford Dealer used Caltex Magnatec (15-30) in my Ford Focus Diesel at service intervals (not the 5 - 30 version as recommended in the manual) and when chipped said Ford were happy with it. How could I query that statement? Stopped going to their service dept and went for Caltex Titanium (5-40).

Been using Titanium 5-40 in my 2008 Prado Diesel for 12 months; can't feel any difference; but I do know that the viscosity is correct even if the cost is a little high.

Been looking at Magnatec again in the 5-30 viscosity range. No real reason apart from the recurring cost every 5,000 service interval.

My garage mechanic uses Hi-Tec but he doesn't have any research information. But he can't supply 5-30 vis. Probably gets a good deal from the manufacturer.

Its all to do with personal preference and whose opinion you value......

bill
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Follow Up By: Member - bbuzz (NSW) - Saturday, Jan 04, 2014 at 17:29

Saturday, Jan 04, 2014 at 17:29
........ around Oz.......

bill
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Saturday, Jan 04, 2014 at 20:09

Saturday, Jan 04, 2014 at 20:09
nail on the head there, I think buzz.

been using the Magnatec myself and my current mechanic says "nah, just not keen on it" with no justification. A previous mech that I used really rated it and I lost him to the mines. I still have a supply that I give my current mech to use up when I don't do it myself and I suppose he'd prefer to supply his own.

Sometimes they get a good deal/supply and it is, to some degree about opinion.
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Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Saturday, Jan 04, 2014 at 20:12

Saturday, Jan 04, 2014 at 20:12
Im no oil expert but oil grades are manufactured to certain specifications. Mitsubishi dont make oil nor do they have special additives normally, check your book for the spec and any reasonable brand of oil will be ok! I use Valvolene Super Diesel and my engine has 360,000ks on it and im sure it will do another 360,000ks before it needs work! Michael
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Saturday, Jan 04, 2014 at 20:43

Saturday, Jan 04, 2014 at 20:43
I've never bought Penrite oils. I think their advertising misleads the average consumer

To quote their website:
"The Penrite HPR range has been engineered with a unique DOUBLE LAYER of engine protecton with FULL ZINC and Penrite's advanced EXTRA TEN technology"

Haha.......statements like that are a load of rubbish!!! But they aren't alone - many consumer orientated oil companies come up with rubbish claims, with zero objective evidence of any benefit.

I follow the manufacturer's recommendations. They did the research and designed and built the motor. Toyota tell me a 5W30 is best, so that is what I use.
Penrite's recommendations are a 10W40 or 15W50 - suggesting to me that they don't know what they are on about. Couldn't even find a 5W30 on their list of HPR oils.

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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Saturday, Jan 04, 2014 at 22:10

Saturday, Jan 04, 2014 at 22:10
Phil! I dont know anything bout engine oils but they use zinc in standard Hydraulic oil as an anti wear agent and for higher heat stability! We used to buy the better grade and all they did was double the zinc ! Zinc is not new and in fact been around for a long time. Most newer oils dont use it at all! Its just marketing I guess !$$$$$$$ Michael
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Reply By: Slow one - Saturday, Jan 04, 2014 at 21:07

Saturday, Jan 04, 2014 at 21:07
Barry,
Simple reply.
NO.
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Reply By: Member - Bill13 - Saturday, Jan 04, 2014 at 21:18

Saturday, Jan 04, 2014 at 21:18
barry22,
I had to make a similar decision years ago when BP Vanellus was stopped being made.
I had used this oil since when I bought the Pajero new.
I came across a Lube Oil Analysis done by John Martin who apparently is very high in the oil lube industry. I think he must be some sort of chemist by the way he being able to analyse different types of oil and compare them against others.
I was going to send you a PM but found you were not a member so instead if you go to this link http://www.turbodieselregister.com/Issues/IO57_LubeOilAnalysisII.pdf
You can read all the information for yourself instead of making uninformed decisions based on others experience. Don't get me wrong there is some really good information on this forum and I have learnt a lot during my time reading all of the different posts.
BUT
This article gives valued info that must be acknowledged as having some credibility.
I now use Caltex Delo 400, called Chevron Delo 400 in this article. This was rated as the 5th best oil available for diesel engines and exceeds the requirement for Mitsubishi DiD engines. I have bought it for $90 for 20 litres at major Caltex service stations. Every 15000 Kim's I take a oil sample and send it away to get it analysed. This way I know what is happening to the 3.2 DiD in my 05 Pajero and am happy to say it returns good readings. However I do change the oil every 7500 klms as 20L at $90 does me two services. Cheap as I reckon.
Hope you find the article an interesting read.
Bill
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Reply By: The Bantam - Sunday, Jan 05, 2014 at 01:05

Sunday, Jan 05, 2014 at 01:05
The major brand commercial diesel oils have been mentioned.
Caltex dello, shell rimular and Mobil Devlac......they have been independently tested and are 3 of the top 5 diesel spec oils available worldwide ( the top 2 are obscure premium US brands) and the is little or nothing seperating the top 5.

BP no longer sell oils under their own brand, but they own both Castrol and Valvoline.
Valvoline seems to be their budget retail brand these days....i'd stay away.
Castrol RX super, while not up with the other 3 is no slouch and has a very big following.

Ive looked at this issue...I've read the forums and read all the oil spec sheets myself.

None of the small oil companies and second string brands can compete with the 4 major oil compaines in the diesel oil market...not even close....not on oil spec..not on price
These oils are used in massive volume and it is a competitive and tightly speced market.

ALL of the 4 oils mentioned are multi spec mixed fleet oils and will run damn blody fine in both diesel and petrol motors.

ALL of the oil manufacturers sell poorer performing oils at higher prices into the retail markets than their top spec commecrial diesel spec oil.

Get onto google and pull up the various oil specs, any of these 4 oils will absolutely spank the majority of the retail packaged oils on the market.

You should be able to buy any of the above 4 oils for $100 a 20 liter drum....all day...if you shop well, and buy where the truckies buy you will do better.

Persoanlly I run dello 400, and last drum I baught cost me $85 from my local caltex depot

If your diesel is pree common rail,( conventional injector pump) you are looking for a JASO DH1 oil spec....RX super does not quite make it, but it is close.
'Most common rail diesels will require a JASO DH2 rated oil, due to the diesel particulate filter.
Some of the very latest diesels will require a very specific oil....that one is an argument in its self.

NOW a couple of other things if you are starting to service your own diesel.
1>..shop where the truckies shop.....everything is chepaer....everbody that walks into a good diesel spares shop is considered a trade customer...all the small starving truckies do their own servicing...this is where they shop.

BUY your oil filters there.
you will buy a better filter for less money than the retail auto parts shops....you may not recognise the brands...look for Sakura, fleetguard and donaldson.

GO look at the threads on two stroke oil in diesel fuel.
the threads on 4wd action and ausfish are a good place to start.
A hell of a lot of us are finding that our small diesels run better with a little 2 stroke in every tank..200:1 is the ideal ratio

These things I have learned from others, proven myself to be correct and have sworn to tell all that can benifit as thanks to those who told me.

I hope you benifit and do the same.

cheers
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Follow Up By: Penchy - Monday, Jan 06, 2014 at 09:11

Monday, Jan 06, 2014 at 09:11
Hi Bantam,
Thanks for the info on the oils, I have found this most useful as I am another Penrite user but only use it as that is what I have always used. I may look to change that next service.

I don't want to get too far off topic but with the comment of 2 stroke oil in the fuel, I have (minimally) researched this also as well as trialled it for some time and cannot say with certainty that it is better for the engine. Yes I noticed the car ran quieter and smoother, but there was no performance increase and no increase in efficiency. From what I read, the 2 stroke oil lubricates the injector pump - prolonging it's life was the main benefit. The question from me is does the engine running smoother and quieter increase it's longivety? If so, how? Because the amount of money I was spending on 2 stroke oil increasing the life of the injector pump, was more than the cost of rebuilding the injector pump - meaning there is no real benefit to me at least. There may be other benfits to common rail engines I am not aware of.
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Monday, Jan 06, 2014 at 09:58

Monday, Jan 06, 2014 at 09:58
My understanding is that the two stroke lubricates every moving part of the diesel fuel system, that includes the injector pump and the injectors themselves.

One thing we do know is that the effects of two stroke vary from vehicle to vehicle and with the fuel used.

Some owners report significant improvements where others less so.

Some have reported measured improvements in fuel economy and power some seem to realise none.

There have been measured increases in cetain level in laboratory tests.
There have been improvements in HP in dyno tests..modest though thay may be....proven all the same.

now that some of the threads have been going a few years...there may be another benifit that seems to be emerging....that is carbon reduction.

Modern good quality two stroke oils have additives that are designed to reduce carbon build up in two stroke motors, a real problem with two strokes.

Seems this carbon reduction is carrying over into the diesel situation.

A portion of the two stroke oil persists in the combustion chamber and a very small amount right out into the exhaust system.

carbon build up is a very real problem with older generation diesels that do short runs and don't work hard.
The carbon build up in the injectors, the cylinder head and behind the rings.

It occurs to me that if you have a vehicle that is in very good health, does lots of diesel friendlymiles and you use one of the better fuels, you may realise less improvement.

Seems those who achieve better improvements are those with older engines with more miles and so forth.

My understanding is that the extra lubrication allows the diesel pump and injectors to track the correct injector timing and open and close more accuratey..ths is where some of the performance improvements come from.

I know in my 03 hilux I notice less difference missing out the two stroke with Caltex fuel than I do with BP.
It realy does not like the BP fuel.

As for the two stroke costing more than an injector pump rebuild...hell I find that hard to believe.
If we run the two stroke at 200:1
that is 500Ml to every 100litres of fuel.
on current figures
$160 for ya 100 litres of fuel and $5 for the 500ml of two stroke....assuming you are paying retail and buying a top shelf brand two stroke.
For most people that is $2.50 or less every time they fill up.......the fuel price varies more than that.

Now if you buy cheap 2 stroke....a lot of those on the ausie forums are using the gulf wester, or you buy your two stroke well rather than paying full retail...the cost comes down to arround $1 to $2 a fill.

There are plenty reporting way better than that in fuel economy improvements.

Now how much do you recon an injector pump rebuild and a set of injectors is going to cost you.

cheers
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Follow Up By: Penchy - Monday, Jan 06, 2014 at 10:56

Monday, Jan 06, 2014 at 10:56
I was using Castrol Active 2T - $43 (approx) 4ltr bottles (Supercheap)
Approx 300ml 2T per 75ltrs (fill) fuel = 13.3 fills per 4ltrs of 2T
35000 kmls (approx) per year @ 550km per fill = 63.6 fills per year
4.78 bottles per year = $205.54 2T per year (current pricing)
300 000km per injector pump rebuild = 1 rebuild every 8.57 years
8.57 X $205.54 = $1761.47 spent on Active 2T before an injector pump rebuild
Injector pump rebuild - $1500
Difference - $-261.47 over 8.57 years

This does not take into account any increase in longevity the IP may have using the oil as I don't have that information, that could of course work out in my favour as the difference is not substancial. Being that the difference is not substancial, it is almost worth doing just for the other benefits.
You may have just helped me convince myself to start doing this again.
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Reply By: Kerry W (WA) - Tuesday, Jan 07, 2014 at 10:33

Tuesday, Jan 07, 2014 at 10:33
Have used penrite since early 90s as bought it initially on mechanics advise to deglaze a motor which was using excessive oil - it worked well.
Have since discovered many other advantages.
Daughter cooked her old 1992 Honda civics engine a year or so ago (it was running penrite despite her complaints re it's price) next day we restarted the engine ran fine and is running as good as ever today. In my opinion she saved herself an expensive repair/rebuild/replacement. Personally havnt done a rings and bearings job on a vehicle since the early 90s so wether that's the oil or better engine manufacturing I can't say but it's certainly a co-incidence. I/we are also keeping vehicles longer as well.
Nissan patrol rear Limited Slip Diffs using Penrites Limslip 140 perform far better on this oil and it seems to rejuvenate old LSDs (The LS140 is too thick for for other 4x4s as it is designed for heavy vehicles you can use the LS90-140 in Toyota and other makes)
Have had good success with Penrite gear oils (over other brands) in noisy and clunky gearboxes.
We tend to keep our vehicles for 300+ klms and simply have had no dramas re lubrication issues.
Like anything these days there is much confusion in the marketplace over manufacturers claims and value for money. I just do my research and spend my money as wisely as I can.
This is just from my personal experience/ choices.
Oh and I better add - No! I don't work for em either!
Kerry W (Qld)
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Tuesday, Jan 07, 2014 at 23:23

Tuesday, Jan 07, 2014 at 23:23
Its not unusual for motors to overheat and "seeze", only to run just fine after they cool down....no miricle there.

BTW this is one that is a common testimony for all manner of oil additives.

Many clunky gearboxes are that way simply because they have been filled with the incorrect viscosity of gear oil.

I am very suspicious of any idea of "rejuvinating LSDs"...particularly toyota LSDs.

90-140 is way too thick for most small differentials.

The single most important thing is to use an oil in the specified viscosity range and the correct oil specification.

If you line up the penrite Diesel spec oils against the competition, from the larger oil compaines....they simply do not stack up spec for spec.

cheers
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Follow Up By: Kerry W (WA) - Wednesday, Jan 08, 2014 at 03:38

Wednesday, Jan 08, 2014 at 03:38
Thanks for your opinion Bantam but I was merely answering the question asked at the top of this page re other members experiences with Penrite.

I didn't specifically mention Diesel oils.

Was wondering though if you have personally used the LS-140 in an old ineffective and chattering Patrol LSD?

Kerry W (Qld)
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