Tyre repairs

Submitted: Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 11:09
ThreadID: 106109 Views:3576 Replies:13 FollowUps:12
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Hi all, when doing tyre repairs out bush, I have heard that when you want to re-seat the tyre onto the rim, you can transfer air from an inflated tyre. I guess this enables a high volume of air to enter the tyre and help re-seat the beads.
Is this possible?
If so, can you purchase ready made gear? or do you make up an air hose with the right fittings yourself? Where do you get the right fittings?

Any help greatly appreciated.

Rob
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Reply By: Krooznalong - Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 14:04

Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 14:04
You can also use a normal 12v compressor. Just put a strap around the trye and tighten to create a seal and pump away.
AnswerID: 525846

Follow Up By: Member - Fab72 (Paradise SA) - Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 14:10

Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 14:10
Damn..... you beat me to it...by seconds!
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Reply By: Member - Fab72 (Paradise SA) - Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 14:09

Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 14:09
G'Day Rob,
I've been lucky enough to have only ever suffered one flatty out bush and that was due to under inflation rolling the tyre off the rim.

I reseated mine by wrapping a ratchet tie down strap aroung the circumferance of the tyre and applying a light smear of vaseline around the bead. As you tighten the strap, the side walls flare out and the vaseline not only provides a lubricant to help seating the bead, but also acts as a temporary seal to enable a build up of air.

It worked for me.... not sure how reliable or repeatable it is though.

Fab.
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Follow Up By: Krooznalong - Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 14:15

Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 14:15
Yep it works fine Fab.

I've done it with a bit of rope and a big screw driver to tighten.

Never bothered with the vaseline.
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Follow Up By: ben_gv3 - Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 21:11

Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 21:11
Wow. You must carry a lot of vaseline...
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Follow Up By: Member - Fab72 (Paradise SA) - Friday, Feb 07, 2014 at 05:00

Friday, Feb 07, 2014 at 05:00
"........... applying a light smear ...." As in half a teaspoon.

I don't paint it on. And yes I do carry vaseline. If you've ever done any significant amount of physical excercise eg: hiking or jogging, you'll know that " applying a light smear " between the insides of your thighs goes a long way to preventing nasty chaffing that can turn septic out in the bush.

It also has many automotive uses....bit of an all-rounder. Far more practical and versatile than KY Jelly which helps get you into tight places but not out of them.

Fab.
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Reply By: MactrolPod - Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 15:01

Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 15:01
Bushy it can be done, most tyre repair places will have the bits needed.
Reckon keep the air hose as short as possible and a large bore, also if you can find hose end fittings with minimal or no restriction.
The idea to get as much air flow as possible.
Take the valve out of the tyre to be re-seated too.
Pump the "donor" tyre up as hard as possible.
Years ago Jack Absolum did a TV series, he pumped the spare of his Sigma to 90psi and using a double ended hose he reinflated his tyres.
Strap or rope around the tyre helps too.
AnswerID: 525851

Reply By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 15:07

Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 15:07
Hi Rob

Firstly have you ever changed a tyre, let alone in the bush?

You will need to carry good quality gear and a compressor is a must. If you doit your way, what happens if you suffer a second damaged tyre?

Not unless the tyre is damaged daily bad, there is no reason at all to take the tyre from the rim, as the plug kits that you get these day, if done correctly, will out last the life of your tyre.

Sounds like you are trying to make hard work for yourself. But to answer your question, I have never tried your way before, but I would think that you would not have enough air, and yes I have changed tyres many a time out in the bush and the compressor made easy work of it.

Invest in a good plug set and a good compressor and they will be your best friend.


Cheers


Stephen
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AnswerID: 525852

Follow Up By: Member - Craig F (WA) - Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 20:08

Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 20:08
The OP was referring to re-seating a tyre after repair, could be a dent in the rim de-beaded or large puncture requiring a patch (wasn’t specified). Never stated not caring a compressor. My preference would be to re-seat the tyre then pump up your spare again. Better than using the spare and having a shagged tyre hanging off the back of your car and no redundancy.
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 15:27

Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 15:27
Gday Rob,
You need an airhose with clips on each end - the clips must be capable of high flow (and remain open when valve cores are absent) as the valve cores at both ends need to be removed. I modified an ARB speedy deflator to make mine. I also slipped in a 3-way connector with a schraeder valve on the sideline so I can have the pump going at the same time.

There are many reasons why people have trouble reinflating tubeless, and with tyre changing practice most of these problems go away:
#1 Tyre width relatively small - eg reinflating a 265 tyre is easy on a 7" rim, but difficult on an 8" rim.
#2 Tyre bead gets distorted out of shape by heavy handed use of tyre irons. This happens because people don't use lube for removal, don't sit the opposing side properly in the well, attempt too much at a time with the lever, or they try to remove the tyre over the inside of the rim, not the outside.
#3 They remove the whole tyre, when a patch repair is easily done with both beads broken and just the outside bead levered off the rim. Lots of distortion can happen when removing the inside bead.

To reinflate - the vast majority of tyres that have been properly levered off can be reinflated with a good pump. In my younger days I would reinflate car size tubeless tyres with a handpump. Pumps these days have great flow rates compared with what I used in the past, and make it all easier, if you've had the practice.

Everyone says to wrap a strap around the tread to compress it (usually they have never tried it). This is something I did in the past because it worked well on crossply tyres. But its next to useless on the steel belt radials of today - those steel belts don't compress, so the beads do not get pushed out - if you keep compressing the strap, the tread just buckles.

I used to carry a 16" bike tube to aid reinflation by sealing around the bead - but have never needed it.

A tyre plug kit will keep you rolling without lifting a jackhandle or tyre lever - these kits are probably safer than a dodgy patch repair. But good plug insertion requires practice too.

Practice in the driveway at home before you leave!
AnswerID: 525855

Follow Up By: Ross M - Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 16:32

Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 16:32
Some people use a squirt of butane from a cooker canister into the tyre between rim and tyre and then add flame. Start off with small squirts, obviously you don't want too much and increase if not enough.
Keep hands away from bead edge when applying the match, after the squirt, and when it goes boof it seats the tyre.
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Follow Up By: bruce b2 - Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 17:14

Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 17:14
i think there was a video on the butane re-inflation method posted by a well known and knowledgable poster on this site (Mick O) some time ago. absolutely hilarious - but it appeared to work. hopefully someone can find the thread and re-ignite (no pun really intended, well maybe a bit) or if M O has a read, he can repost. also hope i'm not dobbing M O in for some dodgy practices
bb
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 17:14

Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 17:14
Gday Ross,
Yeah some funny videos on youtube - the ones that get the most hits are the ones where the tyre caught fire, or the tyre got sucked into itself because the valve was left in...or some guy blew himself up! When it goes to plan it looks pretty slick - especially on those huge Arctic truck tyres!

I carry butane (for a soldering iron) but never needed it to reinflate a tubeless tyre in 30+ years

Cheers
Phil
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Follow Up By: Ross M - Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 18:48

Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 18:48
G'day Phil
The tyre on fire one must have added liquid butane to the tyre insides. Possibly not a good idea.
Some folk will require a change of the Bonds if their tolerance to surprise is low.
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 20:36

Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 20:36
Gday Ross,
Youtube is loaded with videos of tyres catching fire - usually with spray cans of whatever the rocket scientist can find! The original description I remember was with cigarette lighter fluid - before butane spray cans became common.

Its a party trick people use when they don't know how to fix a tyre, they are 1000km from the nearest hospital, it's the end of the day, they've had a few beers while struggling with the tyre, so they lean on the tyre with their safety thongs, spray away and throw in a match! :-)
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Follow Up By: richard - Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 23:25

Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 23:25
Phil,
Any chance of posted some pics of your set up?

Rich
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Reply By: Luke2 - Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 22:38

Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 22:38
any sort of soap (like dishwashing liquid) works a treat to help make a seal as you pump it up to seat the tyre on the rim
AnswerID: 525889

Reply By: richard - Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 23:09

Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 23:09
Have a look at http://xdrive.com.au/spareair/

He sells a tool Spareair which connects to spare tyre and can be used to reseat tyres as well as a few other things

Richard
AnswerID: 525892

Reply By: Dingojim - Friday, Feb 07, 2014 at 04:45

Friday, Feb 07, 2014 at 04:45
Never mind the butane just get a $2-50 can of hairspray from your Crazy Clarkes or other el cheapo outlet. I have even used it in place of Aerostart on in a cold diesel motor. Don't throw the empty can in the campfire or you may have the anti terrorist squad visiting.
AnswerID: 525898

Reply By: Bush Traveller - Friday, Feb 07, 2014 at 08:57

Friday, Feb 07, 2014 at 08:57
Hi all thanks for all the advice.
Thanks Richard, Sparair is exactly what I was looking for.
I have a compressor, tyre levers and bead breaker, also many patches etc, so this device will complete my kit.


Thanks again to everyone who responded

Rob
AnswerID: 525902

Follow Up By: richard - Friday, Feb 07, 2014 at 13:27

Friday, Feb 07, 2014 at 13:27
Rob,
I was looking around for the same thing as you recently and came across it. I did not buy one or at least not yet.

If you could combine it with Phil's 3 way connector then it would be better as I reckon when you try to reseat the bead it would be good to not have the valve in the tyre with the air as well as the tyre being reseated.

Richard

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Reply By: Mick O - Friday, Feb 07, 2014 at 16:29

Friday, Feb 07, 2014 at 16:29
Tyre repairs can be an unfortunate consequence of outback travel. Often, simple precautions and a healthy dose of common sense can prevent the necessity. Being prepared can also make things a damn site more bearable should the need arise.

I've used vapour explosions to reseat a tyre in certain circumstances and while the method has risk, it can be very effective method when others have failed. I don't condone its use however it remains an effective option should the need arise.


Food for thought ( and I don't drink beer or wear thongs ;-)











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AnswerID: 525932

Reply By: The Bantam - Friday, Feb 07, 2014 at 23:23

Friday, Feb 07, 2014 at 23:23
A anybody who has done a bit manual tyre changing will tell you...the single biggest help is "plenty of fat"....and when they say plenty they mean plenty...too much fat may just be enough.
The less experience, the bigger the tyre and the smaller you are, the more fat will be just enough.

Lots of whatever lubricant is available on the tyre rim and bead.

Best to avoid mineral based greases on rubber components if at all possible.
Realy stiff soapy water can be easily made with normal soap or dishwshing liquid.

In the past lard would have been the "fat" of choice, these days the commercial tyre fat is more of a waxy sort of compound, not unlike floor polish.

As for flattening one tyre to seat another......I doubt very much that you will get sufficient air flow......it may be a viable idea if you have a pissy compressor or are hand pumping..but if you cant seat a bead with a good compressor, I doubt the other tyre will be much help.

In the tyre industry, particuarly with truck tyres they use a tyre reseater.
This looks pretty much like a 9Kg gass botte with a flat nozzle and a big vlave.
The aparatus is pumped up to like 90psi.
The tyre is inflated as best as can with a compressor.....the nozzle of the "chuffer" is then directed between the rim and the bead and the valve opened quickly.....if sucsessfull the tyre bead seats in a big hurry.
This operation though common does have its dangers.

Another method that can and will seat some tyres.....with some sucsess.
with the compressor running and the bead sort of almost seating.

either belt the tyre with a big heavy hammer, or if the tyre and rim are small enough bounce it on the ground hard.

though there are issues.

Mythbusters tried the butane tyre seating method and found it proved..i have not tried it.

cheers
AnswerID: 525955

Reply By: richard - Sunday, Feb 09, 2014 at 08:16

Sunday, Feb 09, 2014 at 08:16
If you really want to get serious about this have a look at this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzbW1gszGQY


Now this is a great toy :)


Richard
AnswerID: 526021

Reply By: richard - Tuesday, Feb 11, 2014 at 08:24

Tuesday, Feb 11, 2014 at 08:24
See below The hose assembly and core removal tool looks like a good option as well

http://www.airtecaustralia.com.au/airtec-parts/air-chucks/
AnswerID: 526174

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