GREY/BLACK WATER

Submitted: Wednesday, Feb 12, 2014 at 20:50
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Hi, during a recent caravan & camping show in Newcastle, I looked for information regarding GREY/BLACK WATER. As I have just completed a trip through WA and was made aware of fines for placing GREY water into areas after it becomes BLACK water (after 4 hours), I was informed, without treatment to a certain level, there was a $1000 fine for Caravan Parks & Patrons discharging waste incorrectly. Could you advise me/us on which states carry these fines please. (thanks Glenn)

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Reply By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 12, 2014 at 22:16

Wednesday, Feb 12, 2014 at 22:16
What's the worry with a fine. Whether it's $5 or $50,000 if you do it properly then it's really does not matter.

Just a thought mate.



Phil
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Reply By: Dennis Ellery - Wednesday, Feb 12, 2014 at 22:50

Wednesday, Feb 12, 2014 at 22:50
Glenn you confuse me.
Grey water is water from showers, hand basins and sinks.
Black water is from toilets (urine and faeces)
How can grey water turn into black water?
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Reply By: Gone Bush (WA) - Wednesday, Feb 12, 2014 at 23:21

Wednesday, Feb 12, 2014 at 23:21
It's not so long ago that we were considered local heroes if we emptied the washing machine water on the lawn or garden.

God forbid we should wash our cars on the front lawn lest we are seen by the Political Correctness Police.

Political Correctness:

“Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
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Follow Up By: Member - bbuzz (NSW) - Thursday, Feb 13, 2014 at 08:09

Thursday, Feb 13, 2014 at 08:09
I'm in trouble!
My washing machine water still goes on the garden and I wash the car on the lawn.

When it doesn't rain for 8 months and there is small fortune invested in plants, and its only a small amount of grey water going into the ground, I can't see a problem.

bill
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Follow Up By: Member - John and Val - Thursday, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:24

Thursday, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:24
My washing machine water only goes on the garden - easier on the septic system. During the last drought Canberrans were required to wash the car on the grass - dont know if that requirement is still in place.

Cheers,

Val
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Follow Up By: Dust-Devil - Thursday, Feb 13, 2014 at 11:51

Thursday, Feb 13, 2014 at 11:51
Dude!!!!

That is just so funny, unfortunately though, so correct in real life.

This Forum is inundated with 'Political Correctness Police' who just can't restrain themselves from trying their absolute best in 'socially engineering' other people.

DD
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Reply By: Glenn C4 - Thursday, Feb 13, 2014 at 07:27

Thursday, Feb 13, 2014 at 07:27
It was mentioned that the GREY water starts to change, the fats, foods, oils etc stored in vans are emptied down areas provided for GREY water only, usually end up being recycled through sprinklers & plant water.

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Reply By: Glenn C4 - Thursday, Feb 13, 2014 at 08:44

Thursday, Feb 13, 2014 at 08:44
Why do people miss the point and become smart ass--, I was asking for information on (how, what, when, where, why) grey water changes to black water, depending on the content of scum, fats, proteins, soap & detergents in RV's. Governments have passed legislation on this and I would like to find out what it is about. Too hard to give positive thoughts.

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Follow Up By: Racey - Thursday, Feb 13, 2014 at 08:50

Thursday, Feb 13, 2014 at 08:50
Glen, Before you go off criticising everyone else, you should go back and read your question. The main thrust, to me at least, is about fines and which states have them.
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Follow Up By: Member - Peter M (QLD) - Thursday, Feb 13, 2014 at 09:02

Thursday, Feb 13, 2014 at 09:02
G'day Glen
Grey water from caravans, motor homes, campers etc has a mixture of soap,left over cooking materials, greese, etc. These all combine and fairly quickly tun the water to black water if the water is stored in a tank/container.
Some showgrounds in Queensland have instituted a regulation that says: " some method of trapping the waste material must be used IE: a sock and the sock placed in a garbage can regularly". I have a 20ltr container that has a tap about 2" from the bottom the idea being the grey water goes in, the solids fall to the bottom and the water runs out. I then empty the tank into a registered dump point.
I have not heard of any law but it is coming. The ACC and the Leave No Trace Australia organisation are trying to get some sanity into this question.
I suggest you google "Leave No Trace" and see what comes up.
Not the one in the CMCA site as they have seperate ideas.
Regards
PeteM
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Follow Up By: Gone Bush (WA) - Thursday, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:13

Thursday, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:13
It's a Forum, Glenn, where discussions are held. Discussions wander all over the place.

Don't expect much response in the future if you call people smart arses.

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Follow Up By: Shaker - Thursday, Feb 13, 2014 at 14:29

Thursday, Feb 13, 2014 at 14:29
You didn't ask that at all, read your own post!
If you want a definitive answer & don't want forum discussion, go & pay an industrial chemist for a report on the subject.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Thursday, Feb 13, 2014 at 17:50

Thursday, Feb 13, 2014 at 17:50
Anyone else getting bombarded with Member Messages from the OP because he doesn't like the answer given?

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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Friday, Feb 14, 2014 at 00:51

Friday, Feb 14, 2014 at 00:51
The following comes from here:

Error: Storage of grey water

Storage rapidly turns grey water into blackwater (see photo, page 4). The word "storage" should immediately sound an alarm, as should anything that includes a tank bigger than 55 gallons (for residential systems). If you doubt this, just fill a bucket with grey water and observe it as it progressively darkens and becomes more fetid. Bacteria multiply to blackwater levels as well, at least the indicator bacteria. In Mexico the trampa de grasa (grease trap) often included in grey water systems is a very popular way to commit this mistake-omitting or bypassing the trampa de grasa would be much better.

Preferred practice

24 hours is generally considered the prudent maximum time for storage. Since this is not enough time to, for example, store grey water from a time when irrigation is not needed to one in which it is, I find myself tuning designs to eliminate pooled grey water anywhere it occurs; just send it all straight to the soil. The fewer little anaerobic corners and pockets the better. My latest designs drain COMPLETELY…all the collection plumbing, distribution plumbing, and surge tanks (if any) slope at least 2% across their bottom surfaces.

Manually distributed grey water can be stored for the day to allow for manual distribution all in one session. Tanks for this purpose should be designed to drain COMPLETELY (not leave a bit of fetid grey water at the bottom to inoculate the next batch) and NOT BE TOO BIG as this invites misuse in the form of letting the water sit too long.
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Reply By: Glenn C4 - Thursday, Feb 13, 2014 at 08:58

Thursday, Feb 13, 2014 at 08:58
Fair call, though for State Governments to pass legislation on this, (fines) if it is so, would carry information as to how they came up with the reasons as well. I will try to respond and ask for a broader scope of engagement. thanks

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Reply By: Motherhen - Thursday, Feb 13, 2014 at 23:40

Thursday, Feb 13, 2014 at 23:40
Hi Glenn

The sooner you can safely disposed of grey water the better, before it starts to smell off, the smell is telling us something.

If you are travelling through towns, most have dump points; use them. If you are in the outback, dig a hole and tip it in then cover, so long as you are not in National Parks, near rivers or streams, or on private property. Preferably use environmentally safe detergents and soaps.

If you can dispose of it promptly into the bush at a place away from where anyone would camp, a little at a time spread around will do no harm.

Motherhen
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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Thursday, Feb 13, 2014 at 23:53

Thursday, Feb 13, 2014 at 23:53
A bit of reading for you from many Glenn

"When untreated greywater is stored, it will turn septic, giving rise to offensive odours and providing suitable conditions for microorganisms to multiply. Thermotolerant coliforms multiply between 10 and 100 times during the first 24 to 48 hours of storage. Therefore, untreated greywater must only be stored temporarily, for less than 24 hours, in a surge tank."
Ref: Storing grey water

Other sources also quote maximum storage time as 24 hours

http://www.savewater.com.au/how-to-save-water/in-the-garden/sustaining-gardens-in-dry-times/greywater

http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/Greywater_-_recycling_water_at_home

http://www.livinggreener.gov.au/water/sustainable-water-systems/greywater#do_and_dont_of_greywater_use


Mh
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