We share the roads, we share the safety.

Ross M,
RTA defines passing or overtaking to be the same thing.

And here is another description:

Overtaking or passing is the act of one vehicle going past another slower moving vehicle, travelling in the same direction, on a road. The lane used for overtaking another vehicle is almost always a passing lane further from the road shoulder — that is, to the left in places that drive on the right, and to the right in places that drive on the left.

Lyn W3
Signs on the road say, "Overtaking lane ahead" So you are encouraged to wait until it is safer. Haven't noticed ones which say Passing lane ahead when Overtaking is what they are advising you of.

In order to define or accurately describe the action, Overtaking is used when overtaking is happening, and passing is used when passing is happening.

If you have to give an account for a Police report and say, "passing, you will be immediately asked if it was overtaking OR passing. The Policeman will use such information to determine the relative directions of approach of the vehicles. Just "passing" doesn't allow anything to be confirmed.

You pass stationary object, like a block of flats, but you don't overtake them so it is a dynamic situation when on road.

Not sure what the L&R drive places have got to do with ant of this. Can't work that out at all.

And then they contradict themselves by having a 1 lane bridge with:


Division 2 Traffic signs and road markings generally
93 No overtaking or passing signs
(1) A driver must not:
(a) drive past a no overtaking or passing sign if any oncoming vehicle is on the bridge or length of road to which the sign applies, or
(b) overtake a vehicle on a bridge or length of road to which a
no overtaking or passing sign applies.
Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units.

Note.
Oncoming vehicle and overtake are defined in the Dictionary.
(2) A no overtaking or passing sign on a road applies to the length of road (including a length of road on a bridge) beginning at the sign and ending:
(a) if information on or with the sign indicates a distance—at that distance past the sign, or
(b) if the sign applies to a bridge—at the end of the bridge, or
(c) at an end no overtaking or passing sign on the road.


overtake , for a driver, means the action of:
a) approaching from behind another driver travelling in the same marked lane or line of traffic,
and
(b) moving into an adjacent marked lane or part of the road on
which there is room for a line of traffic (whether or not the lane or part of the road is for drivers travelling in the same direction), and
(c) passing the other driver while travelling in the adjacent marked lane or line of traffic
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/maintop/view/inforce/subordleg+179+2008+cd+0+N

Passing is not actually defined, but in context it would be passing the other driver while travelling in the adjacent marked lane or line of traffic, just in the opposite direction.

Vehicle second in the race becoming first in the race.

Who cares what you call it?

Taken from Wikipedia.

Transportation

Passing, overtaking, the act of driving around a slower automobile
Passing lane, a lane on a road for use while overtaking
Passing loop, a section of railway where trains can pass each other

I'm with Ross on this one.

Two vehicles travelling in same direction, one overtakes the other.

Vehicles pass each other when they are going in opposite directions.

As in Hoyks sign example, if they both meant the same, why have the two words there.

Bob.

Using Wikipedia as a "reference" to support an argument is fraught. You or I could easily edit the wiki article, then quote it to prove the point. The fact that it could (and likely would) be edited back to the original, but the quote would always show the "edited" version.

Far better to use an authoritative source, such as RMS/RTA/VicRoads etc.

For Example - SA Drivers Handbook says "Overtaking is when you approach from behind and pass a vehicle travelling in the same direction."
[Ref: SADriver Handbook

Passing Manuover

I didn't want to clog up the post with all the detail, but if you insist, note Transport.
Wikipedia ( passing )

The whole idea of this post was to give those with no idea about driving with trucks on the road some help, it was not designed as a bleep fight between the words Passing or Overtaking, but if you feel you need to miss the point then go ahead and nit pick.

The problem is we have terms that where at one time clearly different...to some...but have become less specific and even those who should know the difference no longer do.

This is continually happening to the endless frustration of those who can be bothered.

cheers

I like to follow what happens in AUSTRALIA and not what Wankipedia, which can't spell paedia tries to tell you .
Keep Australia Australia, Yankee go home.

Hoyks

The "no overtaking or passing" B&W mandatory sign means overtaking (going in the same direction) and passing (going in opposite directions) are both banned. While the situation it applies to may be fairly obvious in daytime, it is often not obvious at night.

Usually it is used in conjunction with an advisory Yellow sign giving the reason, such as "narrow bridge ahead" and this should ideally precede the mandatory one.

Cheers
Andrew

Yep in the context of what was originally said it's a moot point but if you don't know the meaning of passing as posted in road signs such as the one above you'll cause everyone grief.

Thanks Andrew, I thought that was what I posted.

been doing this for 25 years, so hopefully I have picked some stuff up.

Each jurisdiction in Australian has it's own Road Traffic Act but there is also the Australian Road Rules which apply throughout Australia (Some variation between different jurisdictions).

The RTA in the NT does not define the terms overtaking"or "passing". The Australian Road Rules does not define those terms either.

In this case the definition would be the meaning of the words in the Macquarie dictionary.

The NSW Driver Handbook has the following:

"Overtake – to pass a vehicle travelling
in the same direction as you"

There is no definition of Passing.

To my thinking the act of Overtaking is........ Passing a vehicle travelling in the same direction as you.

PASSING, in the same direction.
CROSSING, an opposing movement.

I have an amusing picture in my mind of some contributors to this thread arriving at a sign such as the one in Hoyks' post above, and immediately reaching for the dictionary. At least they will (should) have stopped before proceeding, thereby indirectly complying with the sign, possibly without even knowing it in some cases.

Or, as they approach the driver in Aussie's videos they get on the UHF with the following: "Hi there Tanker driver. I'm driving a white Landcruiser and I'm sitting a short distance behind you now. I'd like to overtake/pass/move alongside, then ahead of you while travelling in the same direction at a significantly faster speed. Thanks. Over."

They call us van towers "wobblies" and when confronted by the driving of some truckies, we're wobbly for good reason.
Had 2 incidents yesterday on the Grt Eastern Hwy travelling west of Southern Cross.
First was a dick head in a light mine site service type truck loaded with gear who attempted to overtake me in several places but couldn't then decided to wait for an over taking lane. Very sensible except that I travelled up the nearside lane at my normal speed of around 90 kph and he just couldn't make it and swerved back in behind me then dropped a long way back.
What should I have done? Slacken off so he could pull in front then hold me up because his truck wasn't gutsy enough? Or carry on as I did then wait for him to try another manouvere which he did eventually and he got past safely and disappeared.
Second incident a large road train left it right until the 2 lanes of the overtaking lane merged before attempting to pull out and pass. No way did he have the room and we would have been put in a very bad position against the guard rail on the left so at first I braked as it was damn unsafe, but then accelerated as fast as to get in front easily.
At the next overtaking lane I slackened off and let him go being as it was the safest thing to do as his mind was obviously set on getting past however he could.
Some truckies are great but there's few out there who definitely ain't.
AlanH.

PS. A young rellie has a partner who is in the "definitely ain't" category and could best be classified as a dangerous moron but luckily he's lost his license (DUI) for about 9 months so we're safe for a while.

Yes there are those on the road who simply will never be able to make good overtaking manovers.

They are not observant
They do not understand the relative capabilities of their vehicles
They are not decisive
They certainly can not plan ahead.

as for patience and consideration....for..get it.

In current days of pasenger cars that are in general pretty powerfull, fast and accelrate, well, a great many people do not understand how to handle a heavily loaded vehicle or a fairly slow vehicle in a passing situation.

Very few people know how to sit back off the vehicle in front, so there is room to gain speed on your side of the road and to see around the vehicle in front.


Particularly if you are heavily loaded or towing, you should know long before you pull out that you have enough speed & enough space to make it around....looooong before you pull out.

Coast road to north QLD I have sat behind a line of vehicles making mostly poorly planned passing moves in passing lanes to get arround a heavy traveling at fair speed.

They won't sit back, they have not planned their run, they do not have enough speed on board when the lanes split and they are not hard on the button and making the move right when the lanes split.

cheers

Bantam I work on the theory that any information is better than none, these are just simple easy to remember rules to drive by.

No wrong or misleading information is far from better than none.

Flashing headlights in this country is something that is likley to get you involved in a road rage incident.

Because unlike in europe, we have an in general poorly informed driving public and there ARE no reliable and universally understood signals appart from those laid down in the traffic laws.

Things like flashing headlights and the like can most definitley be interpreted as an act of abuse.

Nothing in those adds are rules.

I am in no doubt that this is more of a public relations campaign intended to make the general public feel better about road trains than anything else.

Otherwise there would be more meat with the potatoes.

cheers

Ok Bantam, in my opinion there is no wrong or miss leading info in the adds, you are right they are not rules but TIPS, I have travelled this country extensively and I have never seen someone flash their lights in anger, the only time I have seen people flash lights is to alert people of speed cameras and to let trucks know they have passed, and the last time I looked I was in Australia.

I don't see why they would use these or any adds as a public relations campaign as road trains have been using the roads up there before there was tar on the roads, most people up there don't have issues with truckies as trucks are a part of life up there.

Why can't people just see this for what it is, a few tips to help people not get killed, if you think you know better then go out and take your chances.

"Why can't people just see this for what it is, a few tips to help people not get killed, if you think you know better then go out and take your chances"

Very simply because it is never that simple and we are synical.

The vast majority of the general public are scared #$@%less of road trains.

AND in several locations they want to bring them right into the ports or right into town rather than breaking them down 20Km out of town.

That is why there is the froth and bubble.."its all good" presentation.

They want the general public to feel better about road trains.

I recognise public relations spiel when I see one.

cheers

Thanks Aussi Traveller for taking the trouble to do this.

I too have never seen or experienced someone flashing their lights in anger in rural areas.

When I learnt to drive many years ago (50+), it was a well used signal in the country to flash ones headlights to warn oncoming traffic that there was danger ahead of them, be it stock on the road, a fallen tree, water across the road, etc. [plus of course, for trucks to pull back in after overtaking]

I still use it for that reason and 9 x out of 10 get a friendly acknowledgement from the other driver. It puts them on the alert for what they will find a bit further down the road and they soon find out what it is!

About the only times I get a blank look is from young (<30ish) women drivers but I just think "well they will soon understand when they get there" :-)

Maybe the custom will die out when a lack of consideration for others becomes universally passé.

Cheers
Andrew

NT road safety campaign

This is a link to the campaign, this is just to show people the origin of the links.

Bantam, to quote you, " the vast majority of the general public are shit scared of road trains."

Well that was the whole point of my post and the reason for the clips I posted for christ sake.

People that don't get the point of a thread really shouldn't post replies, it gets in the way of people trying to learn things.

If you have eyes to see, it is plain as day that these three adds are a public relations exercise masquerading as safety messages.

more than half the add is telling us how wonderfull and marvelous the road trains are.....an absolutly pristine road train with the cleanest and tidiest truckie you will ever see...I bet ya they even shined his shoes and polished his nails.

The rest of it is candy coated telling the public that they have to share the roads with these things....get used to the idea they will be comming right into town soon

Have ya picture taken with a truckie......oh forgive me if I seem synical.

In this day and age No government advertises on television without some sort of agenda.

cheers

Are you just trolling now or what?.

However I am amused by your persistence at not getting the point of this thread.

I get your point...you have linked up a few videos you think are wonderfull and marvelous.

Yeh they may have some usefull content.

But My point is, like almost all government advertising they have done less than half the job and spent more time on the public relations angle than the usefull content.

And they have not linked to paralell media, in particular more information from print brocures and on line.....in this day and age a major oversight.

cheers

Aussi Traveller,
I agree.....nothing more than a good bit of info.
I think some people have no experience in the real world......they didn't know these tips (that have been around for years) but rather than say thanks I didn't know that prefer to pick it to pieces......just know it all's.
You will notice that most trucks will indicate left after you flash them and then a flash or two to the right to say Thanks afterwards.

Cheers

AllanH
I would have to say in both your examples, goose in the mine truck, and road train, best course of action would probably have been for you to just back off and let them go.
just because you can keep up the 90kmh in the overtaking lanes, and they couldn't due to the rise, doesn't mean they can't get up to thier 100kmh once on the flat again. So in that situation you would be holding them up, and yes, that can be frustrating.
it doesn't take much, and you don't lose any time by buttoning off for 30 seconds to let them go. just my opinion.

Cheers
Al

Yeah Hairy, that's the way I have seen it done many times, I have never had a trucky stop and jump out of his truck to come over and beat shit out of me, just because I flashed my lights at him/her to show him/her it was safe to move back in front.

Maybe we were lucky aye.lol

likewise, I've never been abused for flashing to let a truckie know he's clear. Nor have I ever been abused for flashing on coming cars to warn of a radar/ speed camera..
or for anything else :-)

Cheers
Al

Speaking of beeing abused.

Seems "ausie traveler" when someone does not support your point of view you think it is apprpriate to acuse, abuse and defame them publicly.

You have consistently refused to engage my line of discussion with little more than "IS NOT, IS NOT"

I resent in the strongest terms your acusition that I am any sort of Troll...that is in fact closer to your behaviour.

I believe I make valid points..as expressed in my previous post.

It IS a fact that there is a move country wide, supported by the large transport companies and others to bring larger combinations onto more routes, closer to major general transport routes and right into large towns and cities where they where not permitted in the past.

Untill recently, nothing larger than B doubles where allowed further east than Toowoomba in SE QLD...and then only on nominated routes.

Only today a friend of mine that drives for TOLL, informes be that they plan to bring tripples right down the Ipsiwch Motorway to TOLL's new super depot in the western suburbs of Brisbane......how long before they want to bring them the last 30 or 40Km right down the Gateway Arterial to the port of Brisbane, or they dane to allow full sized road trains in as far as the western suburbs of Brisbane..

In Townsville there have been plans for quite some time to bring full sized road trains right down to the port, instead of breaking them down before Wulgru.

Remember, there is never a simple road safety message, there is always some sort of agenda that comes with it.

cheers

"You have consistently refused to engage my line of discussion with little more than "IS NOT, IS NOT""

There is a reason I consistently refuse to engage in you line of discussion, because your line of discussion is NOT the POINT of this thread, I couldn't care less what agenda they have in putting this add on the TV, this is NOT a thread about conspiracy theories and agenda's, it is a thread about being safe around trucks, and you just don't friggin get that, this is now the 6th follow up and the 6th time in this reply that I have tried to tell you that.

By the way if a truck driver can safely drive a fully loaded road train down the main street of a capitol city well I'm ok with that too.

Mate you don't own the thread....this is a public "discussion" board.....there is no single point to any thread....the point is what ever people make of it.

I'll comment however I damn well chose and I need your permission for nothing.

I stand by the comment that the vids you like are public relations pieces more than they are informative....get the point.

I refeer you back to my original post.....which you have tried more than 6 times to discredit.

sound to be troll like behaviour to me

cheers

Bwahahahaha.............Hang on, let me get this right........did you say your NOT interested in the conspiracies theory Aussi Traveller ? LOL

Bantam,
These ads have been around for years.......they are not something developed so they can bring road trains into Toowoomba???? They were developed by the NT Gov where they have been driving road trains through towns and cities for years....way before those adds were out!

I have a mate who used to be involved in the road safety council. Would you sleep better if I asked him if he was thinking about Toowoomba when they made them? Hes got no reason to lie to me??LOL

So let me get this right.

"Mate you don't own the thread....this is a public "discussion" board.....there is no single point to any thread....the point is what ever people make of it."

Are you tell me that I have no right or ownership to the opinion or the context to the threads that I author, then at the same time telling me that the opinion in this thread and the context to which it was written is now yours to change, my question is who put you in charge and gave you the right to change the context of peoples threads???

"I refer you back to my original post.....which you have tried more than 6 times to discredit."

Ok lets make it 7 times, the context of this post, the context that I wrote my opinion about, is not about the agenda of the add but the safety aspects it provides, now if this threads context was about the agenda the adds were used for then your opinions would be a point to discuss, so until I decide to change the context in this thread that I wrote, you are wrong, your opinion is wrong and all your arguments above are wrong.

By the way it is the last feed you are getting.

I think the videos are good, and should be screened regularly, at the beginning and during the tourist season.

As for road trains in cities, Type 1 road trains have been going into Toowoomba, along the Warrego H'way, for years.

Road trains of all configurations are running along Tiger Brennan Drive, missing Darwin by only a kilometere or two, as they turn into the East Arm area.

Bazooka,
From experience, would prefer to have someone read his "overtaking thesis" over the UHF, than these ones that don't have any communication.

Bob.

Aussie traveler mate you have absolutely no right of controll whatsoever over anything you post on a public forum....none.

Most of all, you have absiolutly no right of controll legal or moral over any thread.

YOU do not "author a thread"....you submit a single post and that is all....you submit one post at a time.....note the word is "submit"

Once you press "submit" it is gone.....it is in the public domain and is yours no longer.....you do not even have the any intelectual propertly rights over the text you post.

THIS is a fundamental principle of on line forums and public discussion boards.

The only people who have any controll of any type over material posted on on line forums are the owners of the forum and the moderators authorised by them.


cheers

Hi john I have a pretty thick skin,so bantam doesn't really bother me, if a bloke can't grasp the point of the post it is his problem not mine.
I'm a glass half full sort of bloke, I don't believe in conspiracy theories and I'm comfortable in the fact that not everyone is out to get you.
As i said the point of this post was to offer those that are put off by big trucks, that it can be and is safe to be on the road with them with out getting yourself into trouble.

Any way I'm glad you found it useful.