4wd choice

Submitted: Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 09:34
ThreadID: 10702 Views:2151 Replies:14 FollowUps:16
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A week or so ago, after a test drive, I was "sold" on getting a Range Rover. Now thanks to responses on this Forum, I'm having second thoughts. Some acquaintances have recommended looking at the Nissan Patrol. They have a 3.0l Turbo Diesel and say it's preferable over the 4.2 Turbo Diesel. They say don't even consider the petrol models for serious off road use, particularly over long distances with limited fuel outlets. Any further comments and advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Reply By: The Banjo - Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 10:03

Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 10:03
TNT....better do a search of posts on the patrol 3.0 TD ..... current models may be ok but serious issues raised about the circa 2000 model...lot of angst expressed..
might be the only thing pref about 3.0 L over the larger 6 is price. Lot of people would suggest you spend the extra and relax.I need red sand under me.
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Reply By: goingplatinumcomau - Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 11:21

Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 11:21
Some acquaintances have recommended looking at the Nissan Patrol ??

And no Doubt the acquaintances Had been out in the Sun........ without a Hat.

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Follow Up By: StephenF - Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 15:54

Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 15:54
That's what I was thinking. How could anybody who was almost sold on a Range Rover even contemplate a Patrol?
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Follow Up By: Roachie - Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 21:23

Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 21:23
Blokes,
I can feel a "here we go again" scenario coming up.
As mentioned at the time of TrucksterNT's original post about buying a RR, there is no "right" or "wrong" vehicle. I personally own a 2000 model GU Patrol 4.2T/D. I had to deal with a Nissan dealer who seemed to think I was mad for wanting to spend more money on the 4.2 than the (supposedly) better and more powerful 3ltr newboy. I said I liked the idea of 6 pots instead of 4 and I did not want to have to worry about a computer going on the fritz on me 400klm from anywhere. I "insisted" on the old technologyin my new machine....luckily I did not even remotelt consider a slush box, as the 4.2 only comes in manual; just the way I like it.
It should not be considered a great "comedown" for TrucksterNT to be thinking of a Patrol instead of the RaaRaa. He's probably worked out that his needs are more in line with what the big Datto can provide.
As I recall, he said originally that his budget was pretty open (he might have won a lottery or something). I've often wondered what I would do if I had oodles of cash. One thing's for sure....the Nissan would remain as my 4x4 of choice. Mind you, it wouldn't sound like a Nissan once the 6.5ltr turbo'd Chev V8 diesel had been transplanted. It wouldn't initially look like a Nissan either, as it would be cut & shut into a 6x6 dual cab.
As has been said many times before, it's a case of horses for courses.
In this case if TrucksterNT wants a very bush capable ("the best" IMHO) truck onto which he can add lots of accessories to make it's 2xbeam-axle configuation even more capable, why shouldn't he go for it. Okay, I acknowledge it won't have the most plush seats, the best stereo, the best NVH rating etc etc, but it's a bloody good place to start to build a bush tourer.
Just my twopence worth.....
Cheers,
Roachie
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Follow Up By: basecamp15 - Monday, Feb 23, 2004 at 18:20

Monday, Feb 23, 2004 at 18:20
Dead right Roachie. dead right.
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Reply By: Member - Frank - Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 11:46

Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 11:46
lOOK AT THE RESALE VALUE OF THE VECHICALS IT TELLS YOU WHAT IS MOST POPULAR

Iam a toyota man my self because they seem to hold value, but it does tend to be what do I want to do with it

Mustering - 3 cilinder suzki was the best by far

Towing van - Bigest mother you can find

Town and country - something mom can drive to the shops

maybe some other members can offer sugestions (polite of course)

CBS
Cant Bl**dy Sitstill
AnswerID: 47581

Follow Up By: basecamp15 - Monday, Feb 23, 2004 at 18:27

Monday, Feb 23, 2004 at 18:27
The resale value of the landcruiser is no different to that of the patrol. Just because you can sell your 3 year old cruiser for more than someone with a patrol can is not the way to look at it. They cost more in the first place so you are actually losing the same amount at the same rate. The latest figures released by several major companies (NRMA etc) prove this.
I bet a 57K Patrol kitted out with 10 K worth of accessories will be worth more in three years time than a standard 67K cruiser.
Cheer, Mark.
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Reply By: Willem - Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 11:49

Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 11:49
There have been a number of real issues with the 3.0lt TD Nissan Patrol. Do a search of this site....type in 3.0lt Nissan Patrol and have a good read before making a decision. In my opinion there can be no comparison between a 3.0lt Nissan and a Range Rover other than fuel economy. And if you are spending that kind of money then fuel economy shouldn't be an issue.
Willem
Little Dip Cons Park S.A.
AnswerID: 47582

Reply By: Member - Ed. C.- Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 12:53

Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 12:53
G'day TrucksterNT,
In your previous post, you stated that money (or lack thereof) is no object...
I too, can afford to buy any vehicle I desire (within reason, of course.. Not bragging, simply stating a fact)...
I choose to drive a GU Nissan Patrol 4.2TD, purchased new in '99... (also have a 2nd car for 'round town, grocery-getter etc.).. I intend keeping this one for quite a while yet... Previous 4x4 was a GQ Patrol 4.2 w/- AXT a/market turbo fitted...
Reason for my choice... The Patrol fits my definition of what constitutes a "good 4WD" in terms of off-road ability, towing ability, longevity, & reliability over the long term, & definitely (IMO) MUCH better value than it's direct competition...
I personally would not buy a 3 litre Patrol (for various reasons), but I do not "bag" others who choose to do so...
As for resale value, if initial purchase price is taken into account, I think you will find the (4.2) Patrol holding up very well indeed... Of course they are several thou. cheaper than a comparable 'Cruiser on the 2nd-hand market, but as a %age of purchase price, I reckon the Patrols might even be ahead...

That's my opinion, make of it what you will...
Regards, Ed. C.Confucius say.....
"He who lie underneath automobile with tool in hand............
Not necessarily mechanic!!"
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Follow Up By: Rowler - Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 14:00

Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 14:00
Whichever you decide, if you want to same a stack of $$$ check out the government auctions, one or two years old with low kms most of them, just have a good look & check the service history.
In SA the site is www.auctions.sa.gov.au/

you can also have a look at the last 8 weeks sales history (prices),

Cheers Rowler (dave)
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Reply By: Member Eric - Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 17:49

Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 17:49
Lets not get into Patrol or Lancruiser debate , Truckster NT asked about the 3.0 L patrol . From what I have gathered at work Truckster Nt , is that alot of 3 L patrols were sold on power figures , and that alone . The stats I see at work with 4.2 against 3.0 L . The 4.2 is far superier in riliability , there are few issues with this proven engine , Venus Bay
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Follow Up By: Member - Ed. C.- Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 20:33

Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 20:33
G'day Eric,
With respect, I beg to differ with your claim that (a lot of) the 3.0L Patrols are sold on power output alone.. With a (claimed) output of only a couple of KW more than the 4.2, the difference is insignificant..
I don't have the figures to hand, but I would think that the 4.2 would have to have a torque advantage, especially low in the rev. range, & the word "STRESS" springs readily to mind (in relation to the 3.0L)...
No doubt, with the obligatory 'round the block "test drive", the 3.0L "feels stronger" simply because it has lower final drive ratios..
(4.375:1, against 4.1:1 in the 4.2... Funny how Nissan never seem to mention that!)
I would contend that they are sold wholly on the significant price advantage that Nissan bestows upon them.. In some cases, no doubt the availability of auto trans. with this engine would "tip the scales"...

I have already stated my case for the 4.2 (above), and IMHO for anybody considering a Patrol, & money no object, it's the only way to go... (Putting my "flame suit" on now)...

Regards, Ed. C.Confucius say.....
"He who lie underneath automobile with tool in hand............
Not necessarily mechanic!!"
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Follow Up By: Roachie - Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 21:38

Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 21:38
EdC,
No flame suit required from me, mate. (See my response/follow-up post above). The 3ltr's figures as advertised were 116kw and 354nm versus the 4.2lt (non-intercooled) of 114kw and 330nm. The BIG difference was when you look at the torque curve....the 3lt is quite peaky as I recall, whereas the 4.2 appealed to me because it achieved it's peak torque figure quite early and held it right through until very high revs (like over 4000; which I never subject my motor to..). With 265/75 tyres, my speed as per GPS is 2050 revs @ 100kl/h. Mates in our 4x4 club with 3 ltrs are telling me they're doing around 2500 revs @ 100kl/h. Work out how many extra times the 3ltr motor is gunna turn say in it's first 100,000 klm!!!!!
Cheers
Roachie
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Follow Up By: Member Eric - Monday, Feb 23, 2004 at 07:48

Monday, Feb 23, 2004 at 07:48
Thats pretty much what they said , it was the longer torque curve that had me interested. Its pretty scary stuff , what I see come into work . I use to laugh at the 2.8 turbo engines doing pumps and heads at 180,000 kms , now the 3.0L is blowing up at 100,000 kms . Seams to make sence what you said about revolutions when the 2.8 reved alot slower .Venus Bay
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Reply By: Member - Captain (WA) - Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 20:18

Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 20:18
Funny how its all the non-owners of 3.0TD patrols that bag them. Granted the original 3.0TD had some reliability issues, but that has now been solved with the series III 3.0TD. Toyota owners conviently forget the reports of blown front diffs on the 100 series IFS models (do a web search on other forums!).

I used to have an 80 series standard and it was a great vehicle. But Mr Toyota will not make a turbo diesel with a live front axle on the 100 series. Scratch one sale from me (and no, an aftermarket turbo on an indirect injection motor is not a substitute, especially as it voids the warranty on motor AND drivetrain)

My budget allowed for either option of getting a 3.0TD GU, 4.2TD GU or 4.2TD cruiser. Go drive them all and then see what is value for money . The 4.2TD Nissan may have the reputation for reliability, but the motor simply does not drive as well as the 3.0TD, never mind the $6K mark up. The cruiser 4.2TD is nice, but ~$20K and IFS front end effectively rule it out (just cause one can afford a 4.2TD cruiser doese not mean one simply buys it).

But if you are trying to compare a 3.0TD to a ~$130K RR, are you sure you know what you are wanting to buy. These two vehicles are aimed at totally different markets, perhaps you may want to re-visit what your requirements are?

Cheers

Mark
Nissan 2003 GU 3.0TD
Windsor Rapid Offroad
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Follow Up By: Member Eric - Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 20:38

Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 20:38
why cant you order a turbo diesel in a standard ?Venus Bay
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Follow Up By: Member - Captain (WA) - Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 22:06

Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 22:06
Good question Eric. I even asked the toyota dealer if I could get a special order for a live axle standard with turbo, prepared to wait 6 months. But told an emphatic NO. Then offered the RV troop carrier with no intercooler and rear leaf springs and told it thats the best toyota can do(no ABS availibility either).

By the way, I have a Dtronic on my 3.0TD to make up for the relatively low power just off idle. It makes a significant difference, do not understand why Nissan don't tune the factory ECU the same way!

Cheers

MarkNissan 2003 GU 3.0TD
Windsor Rapid Offroad
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Follow Up By: simon - Monday, Feb 23, 2004 at 11:17

Monday, Feb 23, 2004 at 11:17
Hey Captain

emmissions is the big one in regards to the ecu unit , engine life is another issue as well but im not going there
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Reply By: Member - Bob - Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 22:46

Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 22:46
TNT,
there are only two main vehicles for you to choose from (maybe a third from left field, but I'll mention that later).
Forget petrol. That leaves either the Toyota TD or the Rangie.
Tojos are great vehicle for Mr Average, and if you feel the need to follow the pack this is the truck for you. Mind you, there's not a lot wrong with them, it is just like its the Commodore of the bush, and the shopping mall, and the school pickup zone etc.
The Rangie shares with BMW the best diesel engine ever made. If you don't feel the need to conform - go for it!
The left field choice - the Hummer http://www.hummer.com/hummerjsp/home.jsp?Bob
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Follow Up By: Member - Bob - Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 22:47

Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 22:47
I forgot to mention the V10 Toerag - not a bad bus for $135kBob
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Follow Up By: basecamp15 - Monday, Feb 23, 2004 at 22:30

Monday, Feb 23, 2004 at 22:30
I'd love to take the V10 for a ride, it sounds awesome, not the best raps for bush capability though.
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Reply By: Billy - Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 22:53

Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 22:53
TruksterNT is a bogus controversial poster and trolling for responses....

IMHO, anyone who buys any kinda vehihcle with one of those new fangled Turbo thingy's on it is downright crazy.

I myself, I bought a GU 3.0 (auto) after driving it back to back with it's competition. It sure felt the better of the lot. Of course I only bought it after being assured by the salesman that it had no more technology than my old Model T trade in.

But... I was later disappointed to find out it had something called "air-conditioning" ..... Buick copped a hammering over that feature back in the 1930's. They won't do that again....cost them too many people trading in thier Model T back then too....!!!!!!
All aboard!
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Follow Up By: TrucksterNT - Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 23:26

Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 at 23:26
I myself, I have trouble following all three of you Billy but thanks for your contribution!
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Reply By: Barry F - Monday, Feb 23, 2004 at 09:50

Monday, Feb 23, 2004 at 09:50
Hey Truckster, have a look at the new VW from all report's looks BLOODY good and it come's in a V10 diesel with 750 nm of torque enough to pull a( 7 tonne Combine Harvester ) or you could just buy what you intended to buy in the first place!!!!! I think your not getting much advice about 4x4's unless you want a Nissan or a cruiser, good grief does'nt anybody drive anything else !!! Ford Explorer's rule. Barry. lol
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Follow Up By: WarrenJM - Saturday, Mar 13, 2004 at 11:38

Saturday, Mar 13, 2004 at 11:38
Do people actually take Explorers offroad?????????
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Reply By: Sandie - Monday, Feb 23, 2004 at 12:21

Monday, Feb 23, 2004 at 12:21
Truckster,

What do you want the 4WD for?

Going to the shops? Buy a car.
Going on long tarmac trips? Buy a V8 car.
Going to the shops, and the snow? Buy a soft roader (Rav4 type).
Going around Oz with lots of off road? 4WD with as little electronics gear as possible. Nothing worst than being out in the middle of nowhere and an electronic gizmo going "kblamo"!! Give me something I can fix with a piece of string!!

If your having probelms deciding, theres a book about cars and 4WDs (I've forgotten the name) that tells you which ones are good and which are lemons (based on statistical data). The RR's are getting better but the reliabilty is far behind the Nissans and Toyotas!

After reading it I decided on an 89GQ 4.2Diesel 5 speed manual, but I'm going around Oz.

Personally I would get the Nissan 4.2 and with the money saved buy a jet ski or boat.

Happy Hunting.
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Reply By: jeff-wa - Monday, Feb 23, 2004 at 19:11

Monday, Feb 23, 2004 at 19:11
I agree the 3.0l Nissan has had problems (may still have them) but as far as power goes I have driven an auto up greenmount hill (in WA) and barley had to touch the throtle, it just idled up the hill, that to me is a motor that is not working real hard and not under alot of stress. My 3.0TD Tojo works a hell of a lot harder going up the same hill with same engine capacity and alot less weight.
And I don't think that those few extra revs are going to make that much difference as long as you look after your motor with regular oil/filter changes. My little EFI 1.6l Daihatsu Feroza had done well over 200,000kms when I sold it and run like new, that thing used to get absolutally thrashed it was very rev hungry, cruised at very high RPM's but it was always matained and never skipped a beat. If those 3.0 Nissans are blowing up at 100,000kms it's not becase of 500rpms when cruising on the highway!
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Reply By: basecamp15 - Monday, Feb 23, 2004 at 22:33

Monday, Feb 23, 2004 at 22:33
How about a new 4.2 litre Patrol with a turbo upgrade from MTQ? If I had the dough, I'd be doing it. For another $2500, you get over 30 % more power, a 3 inch mandrel bend exhaust, better fuel economy and the list goes on, I forget all the figures but it looks the goods.
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Reply By: glenno - Tuesday, Feb 24, 2004 at 10:09

Tuesday, Feb 24, 2004 at 10:09
all i can say is when i go to fraser island the 4wd i see the most is nissan patrols(excluding packpacker lunatics) .
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Follow Up By: Barry F - Tuesday, Feb 24, 2004 at 11:03

Tuesday, Feb 24, 2004 at 11:03
Just because their popular doesn't make it the best ( eg, Ford Explorer most popular 4x4 in the world!!! )
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