VW Amarok Feedback

Only 3 - 4 years ago people had the same worries about 17" wheels and tires ..now common as … its now harder to find a 13" & 14" than it is to find a 17" ..

Alleim if you have had a drive in a vehicle with a good 8 speed box I guarantee you would not ask that question.

one of the reasons for a multi speed gearbox especially in a turbo diesel is to keep the engine operating in its very narrow power and torque range.

Petrol motors more or less produce more power the faster they rev, till engineering limits are reached.
A typical 3 liter 4 cylinder motor will rev out to 6000 rpm no problmes and will be making good power from 3000 to 6000 rpm.

small diesel motors in genereal are limited at about 4500 rpm and in a turbo diesel will only be making good power in a 1000RPM range from 2500 to 3500 rpm...turbo diesels generally suffer from loos of power outside the power band more than norally aspirated diesels

The more you can keep the motor running in that narrow band of power and efficency the better.

This is why big trucks have manual gearboxes with as many as 20 forward speeds.

As for a 8 speed auto....hell it may be a good thing while its going......but it wont be cheap to repair or replace.

cheers

Wont be cheap to repair or replace ??? Have you [Bantam] gotten a quote ? Or a quote to Repair or Replace a Toyota 6 speed auto as is now standard in the 200 series …..

If you want opinions on the VW DSG gearbox...well you don't have to look far.

2.6 million vehicle recallled...hmmm......changing the oil will fix it...hmmm

cheers

I don't want a 200 series or a 6 speed auto....or any auto for that matter.

cheers

Bantam,
the world is imploding again. Focus!!! "People who own one or have driven one". I am sure VW are fixing the auto box problems if they haven't done so already. Also I must pull the manual 18 speed out of the 904 and fit it to my vehicle. Wow.

Maybe you could start a thread and tell all what vehicle you would buy. I guess the Iveco daily is out now, cause you aren't happy with the euro weirdo's and their sound systems.

Yes the world is imploding and its all in your mind.

If you have nothing to conrtribute to the discussion appart from personal atacks on me.....don't post.

Fact is there is a new generation of vehicles out there are quite a few of them are not ready for market and are having major problems.

When a manufacturer has to recall 2.6 million vehicles world wide, there is a problem with the product.

Anybody considering buying one of these vehicles should make themselves aware of the problems.

cheers

Slow one
There you go again with, "the world is imploding".

IF people stick strictly to the posters request, it deprives the OP of outside experiences which owners "only" may not have (yet) experienced and therefore is a again a slanted view on reality.

It has to have 8 speeds to deliver the engine power. It makes good torque but has to force feed air at a higher pressure and I suspect it also has a raised fuel rail pressure to allow a 1/3 less then 3litre engine put out more power than a 3 litre.

As soon as you tow the fuel map in the ECU has to use the increased boost and rail pressure to continually provide the torque which isn't inherent, only derived from boost and fuel.
Therefore, fuel usage soars, when compared to free running empty.
Yes there are gearbox issues.

Just gotta have a full balance of all the pros and cons as usual.
Otherwise the delusions creep in.

The Amarok doesn't have a DSG box. It's the ZF box used in the Audi A8. VW have said the DSG box isn't suitable for off road work.

Ross,
you just put an 18 speed in is the answer.

You don't irk me but Bantam does. From what I see of you in your posts you have some inside knowledge and give a fair appraisal.

From Bantams side, all I see is doom and gloom with any new vehicle, even though by his own admission he doesn't drive any of them or intends to. That sort of google reporting leads to misinformation and I say it as I see it.

I know well how a turbo and gearbox works and how fuel is used, so why didn't you inform the poster of these facts. All I saw was how many box recalls there were on a box that apparently isn't even used in the Amarok, the fact that he wouldn't buy a 200 series with an auto and how trucks use 18 to 20 speed boxes.

Yes, he has the right to post what he thinks, but so do I. No personal attacks at all.

Yet another post from slow one that is arguing for the sake of it and makes no contribution to the discussion at all.

It is plain to anybody with a jot of sence that I was not recommending that an 18 nor 20 speed box was installed..but making a point that an 8 speed box was not unreasonable.

Either slow one has no abilty for comprehension or he is making obtuse arguments purely for the sake of it.

As for doom and gloom with any new vehicle...again an obtuse and rediculous statement.

There have always been periods of time when there have been problems with the changeovers of technology....times when it is wise to consider the problems and chose carefully or wait a year or two for the problems to be sorted out.

When the first lot of emmission controlls came into Australia...many of the cars offered suffered badly, some lost horespower and got worse fuel consumption ( a crop of absolute dogs) a model or two later and some of those manufactuers where making what many argue where the best cars of their type ever made

There are known issues with common rail diesel and fuel contaminatoin...very real issues that make diesel a far less attractive proposition...while the well proven fuel injected variable valve timimg petrol motors in general seem to be very reliable, powerfull and fuel efficient and in my view a more attractive proposition AT THIS TIME , especially considering diesel is now considerably dearer than petrol where in the past it was considerably cheaper.

We have a new generation of automatic transmissions comming thru.....some of them seem to be great to drive and reliable where others are copping plenty of well deserved critisim.

I dislike automatic transmissions..always have...automatics have always been more expensive to own, service and repair than the contemporay manual boxes...particularly for the carefull driver.

As for what I would buy.
Yes I would buy a current model hilux, but not in diesel, I would buy a BT50 again in petrol but I would cheerfully pay extra to get it with a Mazda badge on it rather then the curse of a ford badge.

If I realy had to but a common rail diesel I would buy the Isuzu, because they are predominantly a diesel engine engine manufacturer and they are not having the disproportunate problems that toyota and others are having with their common rail injectors.

Its not all doom and gloom...but there are very good reasons to stay away from certain vehicles.

cheers

Diesel is often cheaper than petrol where I live and doesn't fluctuate in price as much. All the Euro car makers are predominantly diesel. The diesel pumps at the garage in Europe outnumber the petrol ones by a very large margin.

Bantam,
not going to argue at all. I don't own an Amarok or have I driven one.

So what ever I write, will just a waste of head space for the original poster. Think about it.

Not certain but I think the 8 speed gearbox is to make up for the fact that it has no low range and needs 8 gears to have half a chance - perhaps someone could confirm this ?

I'd suggest the Bantam go and have a read of some of the Torque and KW graphs of a modern 4 cylinder diesel.
Nearly all of them reach maximum torque around 2000 revs and most will stay close to maximum torque all the way to the redline

Oh by the way a petrol engine has never been available in a BT50 in Australia

Hello Robin,

I think you are correct. The first gear is very low and they are relying on the torque converter to do the rest. Going on my experience with similar setups, it works ok but the transmission heats up quickly when working up a steep track. Then you also have the problem of hill descent control heating up and wearing out your brakes on the way down. VW stated that they were saving weight by not having low range because most people never used it. I was looking keenly at the auto and dropped it like a hot rock when I found out it had no low range. The manuals have a well known habit of stalling on take off quite regularly. For the life of me, I don't know why VW didn't put the absolutely sweet 3 litre TDV6 motor from the Touareg in it. That motor would pull the Queen Mary and still get under 10 l/100 kms. They dropped low range from the Touareg as well. A mate has the TDV8 Touareg...one word...unbelievable. You cannot hear the motor, it has enormous grunt and amazing fuel economy. But I digress....

Thanks Mike, I suspect you made the right choice.

On our 4wding property we have a hill that rises 1000ft and I drive it regularly , mostly in my auto petrol Patrol and while its a lovely gearbox every now and then I get lazy and don't stop to shift it into low range.
While it has more than enough power to go up the hill in high you really can tell the convertor is working ,temps rising , and 1/2 the time I shame myself into stopping and puttingthe car into low like I should have done at the start.

Bigcol mate I sugest you go back to highschool physics.

While torque is a real consideration it is POWER that is required to do WORK and work is required to move a vehicle.

Many of the petrol motors also have pretty flat torque curves but the fact remains that petrol motors have POWER ( and torque for that matter) over a much wider rev range than diesel motors.

Mikehzz
The fact is we do not live in europe.
In most parts of australia diesel is a good 10 cents dearer than petrol. In fact in some places ....like my local servo...diesel approches a full 20 cents dearer than petrol at times..


Back when my brother baught a brand new diesel MQ patrol, diesel was nearly 2/3 the price of petrol, and in general diesels where more reliable by far the petrol motors, cheaper to service and required less work to keep them running....AND they would tolerate quite high levels of fuel contamination.

All that has changed and the reasons to buy and diesel in Australia are realy taking a beating.

In Mikehzz post that follows we now see the real reasons for the 8 speed box....and the 2 litre motor.

"most people don't use low range"....yeh well....most people who buy a 200 series never take it any further the off road than the soccer club car park...Im surprised toyota are not making a 2wd 200 series..leaving out the transfer case would save weight and cut $2000 to $5000 off the asking price.

It is obvilus that WV are cutting costs, by putting a pissy little 2 liter motor and no transfer case.....because most buyers wont notice the difference.

No surprise they took the transfer case out of the Touareg..less of them go off road than 200 series.

Of course the V8 Touareg, will be impressive.....its a turbo V8 in a farly light weight body for god sake.

As for the heat problems...well yeh...all automatics suffer from heat problems and that in general is their biggest limitation...so here we have a vehicle plainly designed for europe, where it is cooler and people don't use low range.....Hmmm


cheers

So you're saying power as in KWs in more important than torque.
I think you're the one that needs to brush up on high school physics.
Torque is the twisting action of the crankshaft and HP is worked out from there

Please explain why a prime movers engine may only have 500 HP but has thousands on NM of torque.

The latest model HSV puts about 577HP and it couldn't move a B Double let alone pull it

I think you need to read this. Even you could understand it

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/difference-between-torque-and-horsepower.htm

basic physics...without movement no work occurs...work requires power.

Torque is a measure of force and force alone...force alone can not do work......as soon as there is movement there is power, without power there is no movement.

In the tortion bar on the front suspension of my hilux there is torque and plenty of it...with the vehicle just sitting there....but nothing is moving and no work is done no power is required or generated.

To move a vehicle across the ground and especially up a hill power is required.

A lower reving diesel motor must produce more torque than a higher reving petrol motor to achieve the same power because there is less movement....straight forward highschool physics.

In both cases, the light weight car with the higher reving motor and the heavy vehicle with the lower reving motor .....neither will do what they are suposed to do, neither will move without power.

BTW, the big block chevy motor celebrated in song and story and fitted to many high performance cars, was at one time fitted to many trucks.

There is no substitute for power.

You can have all the torque in the world, but without power and plenty of it nothing happens very fast.

Power is a measure of work..work is the ability to move things.

cheers

Bantam go back and read what you originally posted because this for one is way off topic and doesn't add to OP's question.
I can throw up a heap of opposites about the relation of KWs and torque and even when it's stored in the torsion bar front end.

You claimed that modern diesels made their power in a narrow power band between 2500 and 3500 revs
That is so far from the truth it's not funny.
Just like your petrol engined BT50
Instead of mouthing off take my advice and have a look at the HP and torque graphs. There are plenty on all makes and models. You just have to google them and don't forget to have a look at how much fatter they are compared to the V6s

You have a go at slow one about arguing for the sake of it yet post this rubbish.
I gave this site a wide berth for quite a while because it was over run with know it all's and a lot of topics turned into mine is bigger than yours.

I'm waiting for biggercol to post now.... sorry mate, I couldn't resist. :-)

that is what killed the P76 poor service and lack of parts where the main killers

yes I know what you mean about tires but try finding a good off road 19 inch tire you would not have a huge choice

manufactures and tire companies should get together one daysand work out a a good tire for say duel cab or 4x4 wagon and make things much more universal , I am sure that would bring down price and maybe improve quality

That is another thing that kills a lot or euro product...not just cars......weirdness.

Like things bosch/philips do.....they have made several attempts to sell PA amplifiers in Australia...appart from not being price competitive, they persist on fitting DIN plugs for microphones instead of XLRs...so the fail to sell.

At one time there where standard tyres for 4wds...the 205R16 for the light utes and the 7.50R16 for the heavy 4wds....and it was pretty consistent right across the brands.......that was probably enforced by the military.

The 31x10.5R15 and a couple of the other flotation tyres where common overseas

These days what is more likley is that a particular car company will get together with a particular tyre company to make a tyre specific to a model.

Like the 255/70R15 112 rated tyre bridgestone made for the SR hilux.

The disaster tyres firestone made for the explorer.

and others.

This is never in the interests of the customer.
It reduces the choice the customer has in tyres and intrenches the tyre company's hold on that model.


There are good reasons...but they just don't stack up in the long run....VW have done it plenty before...the whole beetle and combi range ran on 15 inch rims...( big wheels great)...but the rest of the world was running on 13 & 14 inch rims in those car catagories.

It made getting good tyres for those vehicles harder and more expensive than it should have been.

cheers

Seems to me that none of the manufacturers care two hoots about the Aussie market - we just get vehicles designed for much larger overseas markets - if their formula fits close enough to our general needs, they bring them in to test the market. On paper, the Amarok appears 'radical' for the Aussie market, seeing the motor is so small while the workhorse claims are so high (1.2 tonnes ? 27% greater than some rivals ?). My simplistic view of physics suggests that at 2L, some parts of those motors have to be mightily stressed.

Not mightily stressed just built to take it.

Yep typical weirdo euro stuff.

when everbody else in the catagory is running a 3 litre TD...and some claim they are over stressed...the euroweirdos come out with a 2 litre.

When everybody else is moving to 4, 5 & 6 speed autos the euroweirdos bring out a 7 or 8 speed auto....weirdo wheels.....and tell me I am wrong...do they have the indicator stalk on the wrong side too.

not for me thanks

cheers

I know who the weirdo is

All modern diesels have that issue - brand of vehicle is not relevant.

Listen to this Isuzuman...
Isuzu are one of the biggest diesel engine manufacturers in the world. The D-Max engine (3 litre) is built on the same platform as some of the lsuzu light truck range. If anyone can build a decent diesel engine that is robust and has longevity and reliability it has to be Isuzu. Go with the flow....

You've got it in one Silver and we have not had any problems in 55K, GRR, Gulf and towing for most of it.

There is a very good reasons why Isuzu dominate the small to medium truck market in Australia.

Look arround the fleets big and small.

cheers