id ,you show me and i will show you

Submitted: Sunday, Apr 06, 2014 at 20:30
ThreadID: 107119 Views:2714 Replies:15 FollowUps:15
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I was telling an old guy about being booked for sleeping in a non camping/sleeping area.He said when they ask you for id ask them the same back.He said they wont show there license so tell them they can not see yours.He said he has never been booked.Is this true and possible.
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Reply By: greg l2 - Sunday, Apr 06, 2014 at 20:36

Sunday, Apr 06, 2014 at 20:36
hi s @ g
Any one from council must have id and introduce them selves and show it, goes for union people also, not a council or union basher either,
just dont be stood over by jogi bear
cheers and kiss them on the cheek or kick them up the #rs$
AnswerID: 529963

Reply By: Alan S (WA) - Sunday, Apr 06, 2014 at 20:51

Sunday, Apr 06, 2014 at 20:51
Stuart,
It's a crock of,
You have a right to see their identification that proves they are able to book you and have some authority. But wether they have drivers licence is irrelevant.

I would say if he hasn't been booked before its for other reasons. Probably with his attitude they back offed.

Alan
AnswerID: 529966

Reply By: yarda - Sunday, Apr 06, 2014 at 20:56

Sunday, Apr 06, 2014 at 20:56
Old mate was just spinning BS.

Under the local govt act they are AO's and they will happily show you their ID as they write your infringement notice.

"9.1 Authorised officers

To take action under a Local Law, Council will need to appoint ‘authorised officers’ in accordance with section 224 of the Act.
The formalities of authorisation must be complied with.
9.1.1 Legislative provision

Section 224 of the Act provides:

(1) A Council may appoint any person other than a Councillor to be an authorised officer for the purposes of the administration and enforcement of any Act, regulations or Local Laws which relate to the functions and powers of the Council.

(1A) A Council must maintain a register that shows the names of all people appointed by it to be authorised officers.

(2)The Council must issue an identity card to each authorised officer.

(3) An identity card must –
(a) contain a photograph of the authorised officer
(b) contain the signature of the authorised officer
(c) be signed by a member of Council staff appointed for the purpose.

(3A) If a Council appoints a police officer to be an authorised officer under subsection (1), for the purposes of this section the police officer’s certificate of identity is deemed to be an identity card issued under section 224(2) and is deemed to comply with section 224(3).
9.1.2 Issues

Council must ensure it has authorised officers duly appointed at the time a Local Law comes into operation, or at least prior to Council wishing to undertake any enforcement action.

‘Duly appointed’ includes the formalities of a photographic identity card with signature issued in accordance with the requirements of the Act, unless the authorised officer is a police officer.
9.1.3 Issues – contractors

Particular care needs to be exercised when authorised officers are contractors or employees of contractors. Councils will not necessarily be aware when a contractor’s staff change unless notified by the contractor. Since authorisations are not transferable, one contractor employee cannot simply take over from another. A new authorisation must be issued, the old one cancelled and the identity card recovered."
AnswerID: 529967

Reply By: John and Regina M - Sunday, Apr 06, 2014 at 21:01

Sunday, Apr 06, 2014 at 21:01
Or don't camp/sleep where you know you shouldn't.
That way you won't have to ask anyone for ID.

And oldies complain about the arrogance of young kids.........
AnswerID: 529970

Reply By: Member - KBAD - Sunday, Apr 06, 2014 at 21:04

Sunday, Apr 06, 2014 at 21:04
And to really confuse matters I have been told that Local Government have no powers on there own as they are not constitutionally recognised, but instead are operating basically under the State Legislation with powers deferred to them by State Government. Hence why there was the push with the last referendum to have them recognised under the constitution. The only way for that to happen is the majority of people agree to it...
AnswerID: 529971

Follow Up By: disco driver - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 00:48

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 00:48
That might be true but it doesn't stop duly authorised Council staff etc carrying out their duties in regard to moving illegal campers on, dealing with feral or uncontrolled dogs or any other council bylaws.
I wouldn't be silly enough to try and use that as a defence in a court of law.

Disco.
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FollowupID: 812811

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 13:56

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 13:56
This matter that local government is not recognised in the constitution is a very real one.

If you follow the whole argument concerning the matter....no council and no council official has any power at all, least to levy fines....unless you agree to give it to them.
AND state legeslation can not give these powers..it is a federal constitutional matter.

It is a hairy one, but people are sucsessfully defending the matter in court.

There is a great deal of legeslation that if you have the resources to chalenge holds no water at all and exists purely on the basis of bluff.

BUT....do you have the time, inclination and resources to chalenge it in court.


cheers
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FollowupID: 812841

Follow Up By: Patrol22 - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 19:10

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 19:10
What absolute rubbish Bantam!!! Councils are administrative bodies that are entirely creatures of the States. And, the States have every right to bring them into being, change the boundaries and enable legislation that permits Councils to introduce enforceable by-laws. The Australian Constitution puts more limits on the Australian Federal Government than it does on the States. Why not have a read and perhaps you will not give such wrong advice to anyone.

Australian Constitution
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FollowupID: 812883

Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Sunday, Apr 06, 2014 at 21:17

Sunday, Apr 06, 2014 at 21:17
I'd say just buy a "free camps" book and stay where you are allowed.. And move on! That's what we do, free camps are sequential in the books so it's not hard to plan a few camp options on the day! Michael
Patrol 4.2TDi 2003

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AnswerID: 529973

Reply By: Motherhen - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 01:06

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 01:06
While they may have discretion to move you on without a fine, have an attitude like that and you will get booked to the maximum :O

Motherhen
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Reply By: caseh - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 04:59

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 04:59
I have been unfortunate enough to have been a police officer in different countries.

We used to have a saying for people who were obnoxious: "Attitude adjusted while you wait" (mainly in the form of one or more tickets for infringements, after all being Dutch there is this old saying that if you want to hit a dog, you can always find a stick :-)

Cheers, Case.
AnswerID: 529985

Reply By: The Explorer - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 05:49

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 05:49
Hi

Not sure a ranger has any obligation to even talk to you. I would have thought it would be as simple as -> take car registration -> a few photographs -> a few notes -> fine is in the mail = thanks for coming.

Cheers
Greg
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AnswerID: 529987

Reply By: KevinE - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 07:58

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 07:58
Good try, but they don't need you to show them your licence if you're in a vehicle with rego plates on it. They have access to your rego info.

The onus is on the registered owner to tell them who was using it at any given time.

If there's no rego plates on it, or they're obscured, they can call the boys/girls in blue & you will likely get a 2nd fine for that too!

Do yourself a favour, stop looking for ways to get away with doing the wrong thing! There are plenty of free camps away from highly populated areas. If you want to camp in touristy areas you may have to lengthen you arms & shorten your pockets! ;)
AnswerID: 529990

Reply By: phil300 - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 10:50

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 10:50
I think it all depends on the signage.You can park any ware unless there is a sign saying no parking.

What is the definition of camping??
I don't think parking is camping if you are parked and have a nap is this camping??
Sign: with a pic of Tent with a X on it means no camping/setting up camp.Nothing about parking.I think you could park there for 12 hours day or night if you don't set up camp.
If asked to move on I would ask how long can I park here before moving.
I tow a van and have parked and had a sleep in towns, I park have have a look around the town go to the shops fill with fuel go to pub chat with the locals wander back to van have a sleep but I don't set up camp.

Happy travels
Phil.
AnswerID: 529996

Reply By: Member - John and Val - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 11:52

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 11:52
Wonder what happens after you've stopped and enjoyed a glass or two of red. Are you required to move on even though you may not be fit to drive?...

Cheers

John
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Follow Up By: scruffy - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 14:36

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 14:36
Yes, I was wondering the same thing. Or get a bit sick, not physically able to move your veh for a time, on some medication that advises against driving or operating machinery. Who accepts responsibility if you are forced to move on and then have an accident.
Bob
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FollowupID: 812847

Follow Up By: Mick O - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 17:22

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 17:22
John, I have a hard time imagining you doing the wrong thing.

In answer to your question, nope as far as the alcohol is concerned, the offence is complete by being parked there. If you have parked where you shouldn't, they could simply issue you the fine and let you sleep it off. You'll get to stay overnight but overall the result is worse for you as you would probably have been given the option to move on had you not had the couple of wines.

Common sense would prevail with illness/fatigue. I've actually heard of someone feigning the old heart attack routine to try and escape the fine. The coppers did the right thing and secured his vehicle for him and called an ambulance. "No, no, no, I'm feeling better now" didn't cut it after all, you can't mess around with someones health! End result was a $2500 for the ambulance bill for thinking you were being smart AND the fine as well. Lucky they didn't have it towed for him as well.

As the Dutchman above said, if you want to play the angles, you're bound to get beat. If you reckon a copper hasn't seen it all, especially an old country copper used to dealing with people doing the wrong thing in his patch, you're asking for trouble.


;-)


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trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
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Follow Up By: OBJ - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 18:50

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 18:50
In NSW, if you are drunk, or unfit to drive due to alcohol, and you are in the car and in possession of the keys, you can be charged with 'drunk and in charge of a motor vehicle'. You don't have to be driving it.

I found this out on a night out when chatting to a couple of off duty officers over a few beers and the conversation came about 'sleeping it off in the car'.

Just as easy to follow the rules. All the loopholes are already covered.

OBJ
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FollowupID: 812880

Follow Up By: cookie1 - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 19:17

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 19:17
Applies here in SA too, if you have to sleep it off put your keys in your glovebox

cheers
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Follow Up By: Mick O - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 20:37

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 20:37
Yeah but I didn't want to complicate the point by mentioning it. OBJ, you sound like a man that may have been poisoned by more than one cask of "off" wine!

Thank god you had the good sense to camp in a caravan park lol.

:-)

Mick
''We knew from the experience of well-known travelers that the
trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
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Follow Up By: OBJ - Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 11:42

Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 11:42
MickO

Was that where I camped???? One tends not to remember :)

OBJ
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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 21:38

Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 21:38
easy..... you go with the police and you car goes with the local towing company.
Now its getting expensive. LOL
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Thursday, Apr 10, 2014 at 09:58

Thursday, Apr 10, 2014 at 09:58
the police would have to prove an intent to drive

if your not in the driving seat that makes it hard for them even more so if you have the swag rolled out alongside the vehicle.
However im pretty sure theres drunk in public laws etc
you could well end up in the cells to sleep it off and a fine while your car gets stripped by passing thieves in the stopping bay
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FollowupID: 813112

Reply By: Batt's - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 15:09

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 15:09
If you are asked for ID then they should also produce theirs if asked to do so so you can take down their details if you want to make enquiries that the person is legit. Also unless you pulled up somewhere you really shouldn't have which is likely to put yourself or other people in danger I would tell them to take a hike because you're fatigued and need a rest. With all of the fatigued driver campaigns going on at the moment going against their duty of care to force someone who is tired to continue driving that would really go down well in court.
AnswerID: 530018

Reply By: SDG - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 17:34

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 17:34
What exactly is camping, and what exactly is a no camping area?
Fair enough, if the sign says no camping, than its no camping.
I had to pull over on the side of the road a few years back, as I could not physically drive any more. Not unless I can drive while asleep. It did not seem to long after I stopped, and I had a cop knocking on the window, telling me to move on. Can't sleep where I was.
I was well off the road, and not in any danger from other road users.

What happened to stop, revive, survive.
AnswerID: 530037

Follow Up By: Motherhen - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 22:20

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 22:20
So long as you were not causing any hazard to traffic or blocking an entrance SDG, staying is wise. Better to face a fine than drive on and face the possible alternative.

Did the officer give any reason? Did he proffer any alternative sites nearby? Did you stay?

You would certainly fall foul of the law if you drove tired and had a serious accident; even worse if an innocent party died.

Motherhen
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Follow Up By: SDG - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 22:56

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 22:56
He told me there was a truck parking bay about ten k up the road, but when your tired, your tired. I must have had enough of a nap, as I did get to the bay for some more sleep.
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FollowupID: 812935

Follow Up By: Rustytuba - Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 10:03

Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 10:03
Why keep driving until you are tired?
Stop and camp early at a rest/camp area.

rusty
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FollowupID: 812960

Follow Up By: Motherhen - Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 10:19

Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 10:19
Stop and rest at a rest area Rusty - there being the difference, resting because you need to for road and self safety as distinct from a chosen camping site. Highwayside rest areas are not fun places to camp anyhow.

Mh
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Reply By: Hairy (NT) - Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 21:14

Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 21:14
Well mate.......if you continue to take the advice of people like him, you will continue to get booked and probably for more than just that.
If you take the advice of the peanut recommending to kick the rangers arse you will get charged with assaulting a law enforcement officer if your lucky........( I wouldn't like to try that with our ranger)
AnswerID: 530131

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